Why are MMORPG players less grief tolerant?

Vermillion_Raventhal · July 2018

My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player. Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings.

MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little. Why is there a stark difference?

Jamar870 · July 2018

I don't know but then I DON'T play those kind of games. Also how fair is it when there is a big difference in "power". That is where from the killed stand point they don't see what the killer got out of it outside of some sadistic desire to cause grief.

Big.Daddy.Samedi · July 2018

The difference is often that the items in stuff like ARK are easier to come by. It is also a matter of chosen play styles. I don't go in to an FPS game and get mad because it doesn't have deep character advancement. However I think you underestimate how many people play on private servers to keep that griefing to a minimum on ARK, Conan, Citadel, DnL, etc.

MadFrenchie · July 2018

The popularity of private server support for survival games would support the idea that, even within those games, most do not want to leave their progress to the mercy of others.

k61977 · July 2018

For me it is easy to explain for a person viewpoint. I play games to have fun, not to be someones else sick enjoyment. In a game like ARK I don't think it is really griefing when people attack bases ect... if you are on public servers, that is just part of the game and it was designed for that. To me griefing is spam killing someone, mob stealing, stuff like that.

Kyleran · July 2018

Children don't value their time and progression the same way as most adults do, hence the popularity of minecraft, ark and others among their age group.

For them, there is always another tomorrow, while adults come to understand with each passing year how untrue that really is.

Some adults don't value their time very much either, judging from the many bad games they'll play.

Albatroes · July 2018

OP, the main thing that's changed over the years with the general mmorpg community is choice. People simply can go or threaten to go play something else if even the slightest thing set them off, vs the past where you either had limited options and/or everything costed money up front with a large number having subs that were available.

centkin · July 2018

Grief Tolerant? Now I have heard everything.

Albatroes · July 2018

Well this thread quickly spun into a philosophy class and now I'm depressed....time to find something to play!

Incomparable · July 2018

It depends on the design of the game.

For example in fps, there is some cases of total oppression, but what are the players actually losing is nothing in really in terms of progress to the character.

Its only an issue of skill.

In an mmo there is a grind, and therefore when a player plays a game of progression, he will feel a lack of accomplishment if they can not progress.

And in some cases, for those that are 'perfectionists', they want to progress very effeciently, which would be strange for them to play in FFA pvp server while questing and having that mentality.

However, griefing is an abuse of a pvp rule set, so its not just about effeciency to a situation that can be considered denial of progress.

So it really depends on the mmo design as well, and how things balance out. Even if its a progression mmo, and there is a feeling of 'grief' it might be part of the deisgn to offer a roller coaster of emotions to the player but there should also be a counter to that as well... and not just griefing that is abused. So the player gets some kind of 'closure' to their experience and its not just an abuse of the system.

Grunty · July 2018

Why would I tolerate being griefed by a stranger? Only a very few of my friends are allowed to do that.

deniter · July 2018

@OP

It looks to me it's your son who is exceptionally grief tolerant and patient person compared to other people.
I haven't played ARK (and i'm pretty sure i never will after reading this thread), but if there was any chance i could lose Ironfoe in WoW after 100+ BRD runs or someone could destroy my 50+ hour Civilization marathon game or even come and sabotage my car setup in Dirt Rally, i'd seriously question the mental health of people who designed those games.

Rouzuki · July 2018

MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset.

Scorchien · July 2018

Rouzuki said:

MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset.

Which game is this currently happening in ?

FrodoFragins · July 2018

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player. Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings.

MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little. Why is there a stark difference?

One has frequent resets while the other doesn't. One is inherent to the game while the other is optional and a nuisance

jimmywolf · July 2018

Scorchien said:

Rouzuki said:

MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset.

Which game is this currently happening in ?

it been tone down a lot that why the term carebear got threw around from those that like to gank since the outcry curb most ways to grief in many MMO's. unless it was include as a " feature " as part of the game experience, albion , BDO are more recent ones. their more but their mostly forgotten old MMO's .

Scorchien · July 2018

jimmywolf said:

Scorchien said:

Rouzuki said:

MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset.

Which game is this currently happening in ?

it been tone down a lot that why the term carebear got threw around from those that like to gank since the outcry curb most ways to grief in many MMO's. unless it was include as a " feature " as part of the game experience, albion , BDO are more recent ones. their more but their mostly forgotten old MMO's .

Its not happening in any MMO that does not say so in the ruleset , So if a player does not like that style of game play , Dont play that game ... Its really very simple , There are games that cater to every kind of ruleset out there , Play the games your comfortable with , and dont go into others with unrealsitic expectaions .. If its a PVP game guess what .. your gonna get pvp , You cant take a person seriously that , Goes into a PVP game gets killed then cries about , That person has 0 credibility ..

Scot · July 2018

Well how about putting those kids in a MMOPRG where that happens and see what they say, it is not really a fair comparison.

There is room for a MMORPG that gives the player setbacks, but if it goes too far and players come to think of it as griefing then it is not surprising they react again that.

Edit: Having previously been called a grammar Nazi, I was pulled up for the question mark.

Thane · July 2018

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player. Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings.

MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little. Why is there a stark difference?

there are two types of players:

pve and pvp.

arc players obviously prefer pvp... since there isn't much else in arc anyway.
the normal mmo player is a pve player.

ever tried telling a daoc player he does not like killing or being killed? yea, s/he would have laughed at you.

anyway, pvp mmos are a niche game.

Scorchien · July 2018

Scot said:

Well how about putting those kids in a MMOPRG where that happens and see what they say, it is not really a fair comparison?

There is room for a MMORPG that gives the player setbacks, but if it goes too far and players come to think of it as griefing then it is not surprising they react again that.

? This isnt making sense

iixviiiix · July 2018

When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .

MMORPG things value is real though everything of it is virtual .

Scorchien · July 2018

iixviiiix said:

When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .

How did that happen?

Thane · July 2018

Scorchien said:

iixviiiix said:

When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .

How did that happen?

there is a saying in eve (and for the record, i doubt eve online is played by kids, just to counter some of the bullshit arguments above):

don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it

the prob abouts "griefing"? no one likes it. griefers do, and per definition, griefers are assholes

pvp on the other hand? different story.

Scorchien · July 2018

Thane said:

Scorchien said:

iixviiiix said:

When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .

How did that happen?

there is a saying in eve (and for the record, i doubt eve online is played by kids, just to counter some of the bullshit arguments above):

don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it

the prob abouts "griefing"? no one likes it. griefers do, and per definition, griefers are assholes
pvp on the other hand? different story.

If a person ( and no one in particular here) goes into Eve does RMT to get a ship and loses it, then cries Griefer ,, that person is a fucking idiot on several levels and got what they deserve

Loke666 · July 2018

The really annoying MMO griefing I seen is when a couple of high levels follow some noob and spawn camp him for hours, I don't think it can get that bad in games like Ark, That was in older MMOs though and there you lost XP as well when you died so you basically had to start over after something like that, and you never knew if those people would come back and do the same thing next day.

It was rather common in Lineage when I played back in 2001. The good thing there was that you actually couldn't see your opponents level so I often pretended to be a noob when I heard someone in my bloodpledge got ganked by a highlevel or 2.

Those guys often got a really nasty surprise.

I dunno how much griefing there actually is today in most games though, since they instance PvP there should be a lot less of it.

Thane · July 2018

yes, and not a single player in eve will be worried about losing that player :>

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Why are MMORPG players less grief tolerant?

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Why are MMORPG players less grief tolerant?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV