You tell me...

Torak · April 2006

First take a look at this link...and watch one of the movies.

http://swvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Movies.List&category_select_id=3

Then, after you watch one. (don't bother to comment until you have watched one)

Tell me what has changed?

All Sony has done has changed a few of the arbatary rule sets of the game. (again, no question the management style stinks)

You can't change skills, sure that limits your freedom. You don't like the Legancy quest? Don't do them. Its still the same.

My point is this. These movies where created not because of uber classes, uber loot, or any of that game mechanic crap. They where created by imaginitive people with a passion for SW. They where SW fans working within the boundries of the game. They where SW fans not SWG fans. They played and their characters lived within the boundries of that gameworld. The gameworld is still there. YOU are not.

You guys are the ones taking this away. You are all up in arms because they changed some rule sets but you lost the point. You can still do the things you liked (for the mostpart, I know people like the CH got pooped on) Its your attitudes that have soured.

When a rule is changed in professional sports do the players all quit? No they deal with it and learn to work with it. Do the fans stop watching the game? No, they deal with it.

The game is still the same only rearranged. All the same rules are intact. (aside from things they are "revamping" again because of YOU the player)

Half of it didn't work pre NGE anyway.

ebenholt · April 2006

look at vol 9 and you see how shitty not thought through changes impact the game comunity!

Then tell me again "you can still do this"

Edit: In no 12 the message is even in your face throughout the whole movie...

Agricola1 · April 2006

Torak "Tell me what has changed?"

Since when?

since pre-cu, cu, NGE, before publish 28?

Torak · April 2006

So far you both missed the point. Its NOT about the mechanics of the game.

The gameworld is still there.

Did you watch any of the movies? Or are you gonna dwell on the mechanical aspects of the game that you don't like?

Like I said before, you didn't like the last version or the version before that....look at the board history and tell me I'm wrong.

You guys make it sound like pre - NGE was some sort of SW utopia.

plong · April 2006

So because you can still fraps a bunch of entertainers dancing now as well as pre-cu nothing has changed?

Can I take my ranger out and collect that Yavin wooly for my armorsmith in a quantity that is actually useful? Can I still use my advanced camps to relax and entertain friends in?

Can my old CH still go hunting for a rare pet to add to my collection? Can I even call a pet anymore for that matter?

Is my jedi actually representative of a jedi in the world of Star Wars or is he just like Han using Luke's saber to slice open the belly of a beast and nothing special?

Are weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, chefs and any other crafting profession even remotely as useful anymore? Can you really be a great crafter if nobody needs to buy but one item from you?

Want to know why you don't "get it"? It is because to you, Star Wars Galaxies is just a world where you can run around killing things, to me and others it was the people that filled that world and how we interacted with them that really made SWG something great. So yes, the world is basically the same. Yes we can still kill stuff, make stuff, and hang out in cantinas if we so choose, but when you make the roles of any non-combat toon basically irrelevant, then you make those people who choose to play those rolls irrelevant as well, and that just isn't SWG to me.

ebenholt · April 2006

Originally posted by Torak

So far you both missed the point. Its NOT about the mechanics of the game.
The gameworld is still there.
Did you watch any of the movies? Or are you gonna dwell on the mechanical aspects of the game that you don't like?
Like I said before, you didn't like the last version or the version before that....look at the board history and tell me I'm wrong.
You guys make it sound like pre - NGE was some sort of SW utopia.

Well I think it’s you that are saying “See the mechanics to do this is still there!”
It is mechanics than make a game to begin with

I’ll put it like this:
Since the launch of the NGE SWG has stopped being a MMORPG. Now it’s a bad shooter game. When playing NOTHING that you do ingame has any consequence to the gameworld and you don’t have to take any responsibility for your own damn toon even. It’s shallow and lacks of any depth whatsoever. And you say it’s still the same game?

Rekrul made an excellent post (as I don’t see a way to list users posts I can’t find it) about the old leveling system and how even the damn mob-killing missions had an inpact on the game as you could harvest resources to sell, your gear got worn out so you had to replace them and you had to seek out the community to heal you wounds and bf. Everything had some type of “point”

Now when you level up your actions in the legacy quest has no impact on your environment, in fact it’s more of a grind than the old way.

This might not be “Starwarsy” but to make a game Star Wars on that foundation is far more appealing in my eyes than this Duke Nukem verion that now infests the servers.

Obraik · April 2006

Originally posted by plong

So because you can still fraps a bunch of entertainers dancing now as well as pre-cu nothing has changed?
Can I take my ranger out and collect that Yavin wooly for my armorsmith in a quantity that is actually useful? Can I still use my advanced camps to relax and entertain friends in?
Can my old CH still go hunting for a rare pet to add to my collection? Can I even call a pet anymore for that matter?
Is my jedi actually representative of a jedi in the world of Star Wars or is he just like Han using Luke's saber to slice open the belly of a beast and nothing special?
Are weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, chefs and any other crafting profession even remotely as useful anymore? Can you really be a great crafter if nobody needs to buy but one item from you?
Want to know why you don't "get it"? It is because to you, Star Wars Galaxies is just a world where you can run around killing things, to me and others it was the people that filled that world and how we interacted with them that really made SWG something great. So yes, the world is basically the same. Yes we can still kill stuff, make stuff, and hang out in cantinas if we so choose, but when you make the roles of any non-combat toon basically irrelevant, then you make those people who choose to play those rolls irrelevant as well, and that just isn't SWG to me.

Torak did acknowledge that CH did lose out.

Two of the 8 crafting professions are of little use currently (WS and Chef), with Pub 29 WS should once again be viable. The products and the demand for them has not changed at all for Shipwright, Taylor, Architect, Droid Engineer, Artisan with the NGE.

Just because people don't need to visit an AS at least once a week to replace their suit that was decayed in combat doesn't mean we're missing out. As it is, I sell around 3 suits of standard armour per day (at 420k a suit). Without decay though, people are much more willing to throw some money at some decent layered armour or the specialty armour (or both in combination). I generally do around 4 custom orders a day for layered armour (2mil per suit) plus the odd RIS suit (up to 9mil per suit). It's hard enough keeping up with this as it is and I'm not even the top AS on Chilly

kaibigan34 · April 2006

Originally posted by Torak

So far you both missed the point. Its NOT about the mechanics of the game.
The gameworld is still there.
Did you watch any of the movies? Or are you gonna dwell on the mechanical aspects of the game that you don't like?
Like I said before, you didn't like the last version or the version before that....look at the board history and tell me I'm wrong.
You guys make it sound like pre - NGE was some sort of SW utopia.

The gameworld is not still there.

Before the CU, Dathomir was the most dangerous place to go. Even someone with two elite master combat professions had to be extremely careful. He could get in way over his head. Now a level 55 smuggler can walk around with hardly any worry at all. And a 90th level can kill on whim.

They have dumbed down the mobs AI alot. Taken away alot of the special attacks as well. Pre-CU Krayts were incredibly dangerous even to people not being tanked. They could force strike you and give you 50% wounds in one of your HAM bars even if someone else was taking the main attack in your group.

Kai

Shayde · April 2006

Something that RESEMBLES the game world is still there.

If you'll notice, the Cantina Crawls HAD TO MOVE TO A DIFFERENT SERVER because the people on Bria could not support it. Bria USED to be the largest server.

What does that tell you?

And the idea that that professional players wouldn't change the sport because the rules change, is B.S. This wasn't a simple rule change. It was like changing Football to Curling.

broadzilla · April 2006

I'm going to quote a post from the official forums for those of you that don't seem to understand what they did to this game and simply put.. They destroyed a community.

____________________________________________________________________________

The game was just out of beta and 40 of my guild started playing. I was one of my group’s “Planet Side” testers/players, having beta tested it. We are 200 strong spread out now over 8-10 different games.

I would tune in the SWG channel on TS and listen, it was amazing to here the accounts of things across the galaxy as seen through the eyes of noobs. Everyone was a noob. I had to be a part of this.

I got the game and away I went. There were people everywhere. Cantinas were jammed, star ports as well. People running across Dath, no speeders yet. Fighting rancors and nightsisters. Squills and Tuskin Raiders were things to avoid on our home planet. The Corellian plains ands the swamps of Talus, filled with big cats and their babies was a great place for the CH, but a dangerous one as well.

The crafting was amazing as well, folks dedicated themselves to mining, harvesting or buying the best resources, looting or buying skill tapes, and the items they made were top shelf. We knew who they were and we haggled for the best price. Weapons, armor, BE clothing, foods, drinks, etc…

The fighting classes would hire out to protect crafters as they tended their harvesters, or just paid us to bring home the best meat or bone, when ever it would be located that month at various places across the galaxy.

The player cites became sophisticated and well thought out. We would hunt in groups to fund the treasury. Recruit top crafters to place their vendors so traffic in town would increase.

Entertainers formed troupes that would travel around and perform at events for hire. Towns would have celebrations, music, fireworks, dancing. The socialization was at its peak.

Bases became focal points for the GCW, defending and attacking, when one went “hot” hundreds of players would be on hand. Theed was a kill zone as was the Bestine-Anchorhead corridor.

Jedi were rare and as the game progressed, more found their way to the Force. But through perma-death, saber TEF and eventually visibility and the BH, showing off with a LS was a bad thing. Removing the BH gank squad made us Jedi more brazen and may have been the first sign of the down hill slide. Jedi should have remained in the shadows.

I remember traveling across many planets and stopping off in a camps on a regular basis. Players just out and about were never hard to stumble across. The Master Ranger camp was a sight to see. If they had a dancer, it was a chance to heal up a bit and move on. Before leaving you could often barter for a new pet or some food or drink. Few new I was a Jedi, it was much safer that way. Regular clothes, carrying a rifle or carbine, with my LS in the tool bar just in case I was not as careful as I thought I was.

Back to a big city, get your speeder, armor and weapon repaired. It was always nice to find a smuggler and get those new items sliced. Stop by the local cantina and enjoy some music and get a mind buff, hit a star port and have a doctor buff you up. Then back out to the open spaces, never far from action.

Player run night clubs sprang up, rented juke boxes, exotic dancers, beauty pageants and just a place to hang out, waiting for the next assault on the enemy or hunting party. At one pageant, with about two hundred in attendance, a beautiful young Jedi was competing, when a BH attacked, the fight spilled out into the street and raged on for 20 minutes before she managed to escape. I cannot imagine a more “Star Warsy” scene then a fight breaking out in a Star Wars bar.

You didn’t have to run around to find PvP, it would always find you if you were not alert. NPC’s could unmask you as well, and many times you would have to fight your way out of town. For a Jedi, that meant visibility for sure. Time o be extra careful. But if laying low was your thing for the moment, there were 100 places to go and things to do. Tend to your factors, restock, shop, socialize, hunt, the Vette, Theme Parks, The Warren, Black Sun Bunker, etc… The server forums served as After Action Reports that made the slow times at work more enjoyable.

New players would seek help, and many did help. Taking them under their wing, showing them the ropes, forging bonds, weaken by the tears of this dying game, and friend’s lists evaporated as gamers left for greener pastures.

You really carved out your own existence, the greatest Star Wars saga ever told, yours… and if you ran the course and wanted a change, you could start over, 31 more times if it suited you.

Many of us have moved on, others stay and pray that the greatness of this game will return. Still others, like me, pay for a month here and there just to check in and see for ourselves.

For me, there is a soothing, surreal feeling when I hear the opening music. I stand above my home on Tatooine, in Storm’s End, a town we forged from the sands in a place called The Valley of the Wind. I watch the twin suns set over the mountains and remember what the game was like. It truly breaks my heart to think of the friends lost and the good times we had, gone forever, like the sands in a storm. I wait a bit longer, check my empty friend’s list and log off.

Yes, we were adventurers, explorers and soldiers, and it was the best of times.

Slickinfinit · April 2006

I just remember pre-cu being extremly player inter-dependant and the gameplay kept me there for up to 4-8 hours per day mostly. NGE I cant stand 30 mins of because the combat is horrible and all the things I liked to do before are gone like: meaningful pvp, BH vs Jedi bounties, GOOD crafting, resource hunting and harvesting, looting stuff for auction like ca's + aa's, turn based combat, collecting high-end player crafted gear, collecting uber looted gear, having a deverse character and tons of things SOE removed because they are either cheap or to stupid to maintain.

Echobe · April 2006

No, the game world is not still there.

The community had been hemorrhaging. And the community is one piece of a 2 piece puzzle that made the game so amazing.

The second piece was the sandbox concept of the game. Slowly since CU they have been removing the viability of non-combat characters by removing decay, eliminating battle fatigue and other subsequent nerfs to crafters and entertainers. And ultimately the removal of professions such as BE and CH, Ranger and many others. And slowly, entertainers and crafters as well.

SWG was a game that had many, many interdependancies. Resources needed to be gathered by killing or harvesting, commodities needed to be crafted from the gathered resources, people needed to be healed by doctors and/or entertainers, so they could go out and kill/gather some more. The only things that were flawed in SWG's amazing economy was that there were not enough money sinks to remove money and decrease inflation and money was just a little too easy to aquire.

Now that you had an amazing economy in place, things like museums, dance parties, production companies, moving companies, realestate companies, entertainment companies, just about anything you could think of began to form up because of all these interdependancies and combat/non-combat options existed. I mean, holy shit! I have never seen such an amazing community in a game, and the reason why I never have is because they have never been given tools like this before to create such a world.

And due to developer incompetence, lies and deceit, they have destroyed that community and are continuing to destroy the tools that community used to create this amazing place. A living breathing Star Wars Galaxy.

plong · April 2006

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by plong

So because you can still fraps a bunch of entertainers dancing now as well as pre-cu nothing has changed?
Can I take my ranger out and collect that Yavin wooly for my armorsmith in a quantity that is actually useful? Can I still use my advanced camps to relax and entertain friends in?
Can my old CH still go hunting for a rare pet to add to my collection? Can I even call a pet anymore for that matter?
Is my jedi actually representative of a jedi in the world of Star Wars or is he just like Han using Luke's saber to slice open the belly of a beast and nothing special?
Are weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, chefs and any other crafting profession even remotely as useful anymore? Can you really be a great crafter if nobody needs to buy but one item from you?
Want to know why you don't "get it"? It is because to you, Star Wars Galaxies is just a world where you can run around killing things, to me and others it was the people that filled that world and how we interacted with them that really made SWG something great. So yes, the world is basically the same. Yes we can still kill stuff, make stuff, and hang out in cantinas if we so choose, but when you make the roles of any non-combat toon basically irrelevant, then you make those people who choose to play those rolls irrelevant as well, and that just isn't SWG to me.

Torak did acknowledge that CH did lose out.

Two of the 8 crafting professions are of little use currently (WS and Chef), with Pub 29 WS should once again be viable. The products and the demand for them has not changed at all for Shipwright, Taylor, Architect, Droid Engineer, Artisan with the NGE.

Just because people don't need to visit an AS at least once a week to replace their suit that was decayed in combat doesn't mean we're missing out. As it is, I sell around 3 suits of standard armour per day (at 420k a suit). Without decay though, people are much more willing to throw some money at some decent layered armour or the specialty armour (or both in combination). I generally do around 4 custom orders a day for layered armour (2mil per suit) plus the odd RIS suit (up to 9mil per suit). It's hard enough keeping up with this as it is and I'm not even the top AS on Chilly

Lets look at your professions shall we?

Tailor: Lost modded clothing market, gained nothing. Clothing still doesn't wear out and looted items are much more useful than anything they can make.

Architect: Due to changes to crafting professions as a whole, their one decent line of business (mineral extractors) has become next to nothing.

Droid engineer: Scouting droids gone, medical droids gone, barker droid business way down due to useless crafting system. BH droids?

Artisan: Loss of vehicle business as they never wear out. Repair kits? Who needs them anymore. Selling parts to other crafters? HA HA HA.

Shipwright: How does losing over half of potential customers benefit shipwrights? How long can they exist when the portion of active players isn't growing, space content hasn't been added since wookie world, and there are nothing but vapor ware plans for space?

Weaponsmith: Supposedly will have weapons damage be a bigger factor than player level in damage dealing. How does this improve their use when looted items are still better? Will I go buy a rifle made by a smith with max damage of 500 or use the one I looted with 550?

If you're going to be a cheerleader for SOE, at least use excuses that are based on some fact.

Torak · April 2006

Originally posted by Echobe

No, the game world is not still there.
The community had been hemorrhaging. And the community is one piece of a 2 piece puzzle that made the game so amazing.
But the community is bled off because of arbitary game mechanics. The physical world and locations are still there. Someone said the A.I. has been "dumb" down...please. Like we where all awestruck by the complexe behavior of the Bol.
The second piece was the sandbox concept of the game. Slowly since CU they have been removing the viability of non-combat characters by removing decay, eliminating battle fatigue and other subsequent nerfs to crafters and entertainers. And ultimately the removal of professions such as BE and CH, Ranger and many others. And slowly, entertainers and crafters as well.
Agreed. For whatever reason they totally butchered the non-combat guys.
SWG was a game that had many, many interdependancies. Resources needed to be gathered by killing or harvesting, commodities needed to be crafted from the gathered resources, people needed to be healed by doctors and/or entertainers, so they could go out and kill/gather some more. The only things that were flawed in SWG's amazing economy was that there were not enough money sinks to remove money and decrease inflation and money was just a little too easy to aquire.
Little by little it still does...........yes, they F*cked up and ruined the crafters. But its coming back. The merchants are full on the 3 servers I have toons on. Yeah so its not a scientific sample, sue me.
Now that you had an amazing economy in place, things like museums, dance parties, production companies, moving companies, realestate companies, entertainment companies, just about anything you could think of began to form up because of all these interdependancies and combat/non-combat options existed. I mean, holy shit! I have never seen such an amazing community in a game, and the reason why I never have is because they have never been given tools like this before to create such a world.
But the community (here on mmorpg.com) abandon the game, it didn't shut down.
And due to developer incompetence, lies and deceit, they have destroyed that community and are continuing to destroy the tools that community used to create this amazing place. A living breathing Star Wars Galaxy.
Yes, I agree Sony has made a mess of the game. They may have destroyed the old community but from what I can see a new has replaced you. Many "elder" players are still around also (pre-NGE, its a title many wear) So here on mmorpg.com there are like what 40 or 50 who keep posting this hate garbage? There are many fine games out there, try one. Yeah you guys "own" this board.......hooray for you.
One of you is posting "death" to one of the devs??? What kind of person wishes that sort of thing on another human over a video game? A very immature one or one who needs pychological help because they have lost all grasp of reality. That type of thing TOTAL invalidates any arguement you can come with because you have completely discredited yourselves.
The reality folks, is this: Its a video game. They changed it.
Its been 6 months. It ain't coming back.
Argue if you like, I am playing the game right now, you are not.

By the way.............not a single one of you watch the videos I linked so you all missed my point.

Very disappointing. All you did was get on a rant about how I wrong. If you watched the clips you would know what I mean. You destroyed that environment.

On top of it all, not one of you will admit the game was marginal before NGE. Did anyone look at the old post on this board? NO. You all where not all that crazy about CU either.

Here where my instructions regarding this thread since no one bothered to read them. I don't care about class interdependancy or the mathnatical reasons you don't like the game....

I'm talking about the spirit of the game.............something all of you have forgotten.

First take a look at this link...and watch one of the movies.

http://swvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Movies.List&category_select_id=3

Then, after you watch one. (don't bother to comment until you have watched one)

Tell me what has changed?

Xcathdra · April 2006

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by Echobe

No, the game world is not still there.
The community had been hemorrhaging. And the community is one piece of a 2 piece puzzle that made the game so amazing.
But the community is bled off because of arbitary game mechanics. The physical world and locations are still there. Someone said the A.I. has been "dumb" down...please. Like we where all awestruck by the complexe behavior of the Bol.
The second piece was the sandbox concept of the game. Slowly since CU they have been removing the viability of non-combat characters by removing decay, eliminating battle fatigue and other subsequent nerfs to crafters and entertainers. And ultimately the removal of professions such as BE and CH, Ranger and many others. And slowly, entertainers and crafters as well.
Agreed. For whatever reason they totally butchered the non-combat guys.
SWG was a game that had many, many interdependancies. Resources needed to be gathered by killing or harvesting, commodities needed to be crafted from the gathered resources, people needed to be healed by doctors and/or entertainers, so they could go out and kill/gather some more. The only things that were flawed in SWG's amazing economy was that there were not enough money sinks to remove money and decrease inflation and money was just a little too easy to aquire.
Little by little it still does...........yes, they F*cked up and ruined the crafters. But its coming back. The merchants are full on the 3 servers I have toons on. Yeah so its not a scientific sample, sue me.
Now that you had an amazing economy in place, things like museums, dance parties, production companies, moving companies, realestate companies, entertainment companies, just about anything you could think of began to form up because of all these interdependancies and combat/non-combat options existed. I mean, holy shit! I have never seen such an amazing community in a game, and the reason why I never have is because they have never been given tools like this before to create such a world.
But the community (here on mmorpg.com) abandon the game, it didn't shut down.
And due to developer incompetence, lies and deceit, they have destroyed that community and are continuing to destroy the tools that community used to create this amazing place. A living breathing Star Wars Galaxy.
Yes, I agree Sony has made a mess of the game. They may have destroyed the old community but from what I can see a new has replaced you. Many "elder" players are still around also (pre-NGE, its a title many wear) So here on mmorpg.com there are like what 40 or 50 who keep posting this hate garbage? There are many fine games out there, try one. Yeah you guys "own" this board.......hooray for you.
One of you is posting "death" to one of the devs??? What kind of person wishes that sort of thing on another human over a video game? A very immature one or one who needs pychological help because they have lost all grasp of reality. That type of thing TOTAL invalidates any arguement you can come with because you have completely discredited yourselves.
The reality folks, is this: Its a video game. They changed it.
Its been 6 months. It ain't coming back.
Argue if you like, I am playing the game right now, you are not.

By the way.............not a single one of you watch the videos I linked so you all missed my point.

Very disappointing. All you did was get on a rant about how I wrong. If you watched the clips you would know what I mean. You destroyed that environment.

On top of it all, not one of you will admit the game was marginal before NGE. Did anyone look at the old post on this board? NO. You all where not all that crazy about CU either.

Here where my instructions regarding this thread since no one bothered to read them. I don't care about class interdependancy or the mathnatical reasons you don't like the game....

I'm talking about the spirit of the game.............something all of you have forgotten.

First take a look at this link...and watch one of the movies.

http://swvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Movies.List&category_select_id=3

Then, after you watch one. (don't bother to comment until you have watched one)

Tell me what has changed?

Uhmmm.. nooooo.. I played pre cu and cu... I quit because SONY and LUCAS ARTS wouldnt not listen to the player base and DESTROYED that game by forcing the NGE upon us. I tried it.. and hated it... I had one combat profession of my 4 accounts.. the other 3 were the ones that got nerfed the most (artisan, architect, shipwright, entertainer). I didnt do one thing to destroy the game.. I gave as much feedback as I could but SONY chose to ignore it... The game mechanics are what made the game... I like the turn based style.. the complex in depth interdependancies..

Had Sony not pushed out craptastic publishes, and then they never went back to fix what they broke, we wouldnt be here... Are you upset because you are playing a agame we all hate? Are you mad at us because you have no one to play with in game? Sorry.. They took the game I loved and turned it into some 12 year old mindless mash the mole style game...I am 28.. not 12.. I happen to like games that make me think and plan stuff out... I like to work for things, and I like the feeling of accomplishing goals..

The target audience now is the 12 year old give it to me now or im telling my parents crowd. Thats not me... So jsut to reempahsize my point... I quit because of what SOE did... They destoryed the game.. not me. I never abanonded the game.. I left when SOE abandoned me.

Xcathdra

mystitigger · May 2006

Notice how there has not been one of thouse movies made after NGE hit.. lol ::::01::

edit: but really.. you take away the fun parts of the game and people just can't totally depend on that social aspect SWG had.

anaic · May 2006

That's because the people behind them went to Second Life last November.

Torak · May 2006

Uhmmm.. nooooo.. I played pre cu and cu... I quit because SONY and LUCAS ARTS wouldnt not listen to the player base and DESTROYED that game by forcing the NGE upon us. I tried it.. and hated it... I had one combat profession of my 4 accounts.. the other 3 were the ones that got nerfed the most (artisan, architect, shipwright, entertainer). I didnt do one thing to destroy the game.. I gave as much feedback as I could but SONY chose to ignore it... The game mechanics are what made the game... I like the turn based style.. the complex in depth interdependancies..

Had Sony not pushed out craptastic publishes, and then they never went back to fix what they broke, we wouldnt be here... Are you upset because you are playing a agame we all hate? Are you mad at us because you have no one to play with in game? Sorry.. They took the game I loved and turned it into some 12 year old mindless mash the mole style game...I am 28.. not 12.. I happen to like games that make me think and plan stuff out... I like to work for things, and I like the feeling of accomplishing goals..

The target audience now is the 12 year old give it to me now or im telling my parents crowd. Thats not me... So jsut to reempahsize my point... I quit because of what SOE did... They destoryed the game.. not me. I never abanonded the game.. I left when SOE abandoned me.

Xcathdra

Ok, first bro, did you watch one of the movies then post?

Second of all, I'm not "angry" at anyone lol. I'm trying to make a point. The game is / was / always has been mediocore. This particular community is making it sound like the pre-NGE game was an MMO utopia and was perfect when in reality it wasn't even close. It was just as much a mess then as it is now.

1) Post history is living proof of that.

2) Many posters here have completely lost objectivity. This is easily demonstrated by this thread. No one has bothered to follow the instructions.

Also there are numerous threads that advoce physical violance to members of the Sony staff. That is a total lose of objectivity and boarders on irrational. There are a few titled post threads that single INDIVIDUAL people out, simply because of a video game. That is a loss of objectivity. You guys discredit and trivialize yourselves everytime you post that sort of crap.

Like it or not, here is another "fact" None of these game companies are in it for any higher purpose then to make a profit. None of them. What Sony did was called "risk taking". They are taking a chance that by making the changes they did, there will be a greater payoff. SWG was marginal and NOT growing. A licence that should have grabbed far more then it did. So, as a business decission, you all where sacrificed. It happens everyday in the business world. I'm not saying you have to like it but thats life.

Everything was cool last week when I made fun of the game but now that I question the motive this communities dislike all of a sudden "I'm angry". LoL, thats not the case at all.

The "spirit of the game" is really what I'm talking about here. So again,

Watch Cantina Crawl XIX and tell me how what those people did, has changed? Their game was far from perfect also. In fact being an entertainer in their time sucked worse then it does now.

But they had a passion for the game. Much like a professional sportsman who must endure a change in the rules.

Ravensong · May 2006

Originally posted by Torak

When a rule is changed in professional sports do the players all quit? No they deal with it and learn to work with it. Do the fans stop watching the game? No, they deal with it.

ROFLMAO

Imagine if you will, Tiger Woods is lining up to tee off ONLY the rules have changed, instead of a golf ball the rules now state that they must play the course using pastel colored bowling balls.

Small golf balls just were not "golfy" enough hence the fancy pastel colored bowling balls to match the palyers attire. This change was made so that the balls would stand out and be easy to spot if they landed in a sandtrap or off in the thickly wooded areas of the course.

Yep, you were right Torak, the mechanics are still there but I dont think I want to dislocate my shoulder playing golf with the new rules anymore then I want to play the NGE and puke all over my keyboard.

tvalentine · May 2006

Originally posted by Torak

So far you both missed the point. Its NOT about the mechanics of the game.
The gameworld is still there.
Did you watch any of the movies? Or are you gonna dwell on the mechanical aspects of the game that you don't like?
Like I said before, you didn't like the last version or the version before that....look at the board history and tell me I'm wrong.
You guys make it sound like pre - NGE was some sort of SW utopia.

no ..... its not. Unless you like running around at CL 30 with somewhat gear and "RP" then yeah its still there. Or if you play for friends then yeah its a good reason to stay, but when you have friends with more then a 1/4 of a brain, that know the game they loved and spent hundreds of $$$$ playing and also watching $OE spit on SW for 2 "upgrades" they would not be there...... i would have stayed if they did, but they didnt, its not just gameplay, yeah its more then that.

Erwinn · May 2006

Torak I totally agree with you man.

SWG has never been a perfect SW mmo experience. When i first started playing in May of 04, I knew from the start that there was something missing. I now know that what I thought was missing wasn't missing at all. It was just hard to find. I, like you, am talking about the "spirit of the game". About what Sony did with the NGE is right on the mark. SWG wasn't growing so they took a huge risk. A year and a half from now we will see if that risk was worth it or not. I loved Pre-cu, CU and I still enjoy the NGE even with all its faults and will be around till the servers shut down. The game is in a long transition period and in my opinion the game will improve drastically in a year and a half to 2 years. Still i agree with you and keep up the fight for SWG.

blingblade · May 2006

someone mentioned spirit....the spirit didnt die, the Veterans who loved the CU and Pre CU took it with them... so it s still alive as our counterposts show, but as far as any spirit being in game. hah, its not spirit, its life support hooked up to a vegetable....... sooner or later we will be able to move on, but it wasnt just a game to me or many others, it was a damned lot of sub money that turned into garbage, and SOE threw it on our doorsteps....

PS..... SWG DIED NOVEMBER 15th 2005............

Xcathdra · May 2006

Originally posted by Torak

Uhmmm.. nooooo.. I played pre cu and cu... I quit because SONY and LUCAS ARTS wouldnt not listen to the player base and DESTROYED that game by forcing the NGE upon us. I tried it.. and hated it... I had one combat profession of my 4 accounts.. the other 3 were the ones that got nerfed the most (artisan, architect, shipwright, entertainer). I didnt do one thing to destroy the game.. I gave as much feedback as I could but SONY chose to ignore it... The game mechanics are what made the game... I like the turn based style.. the complex in depth interdependancies..

Had Sony not pushed out craptastic publishes, and then they never went back to fix what they broke, we wouldnt be here... Are you upset because you are playing a agame we all hate? Are you mad at us because you have no one to play with in game? Sorry.. They took the game I loved and turned it into some 12 year old mindless mash the mole style game...I am 28.. not 12.. I happen to like games that make me think and plan stuff out... I like to work for things, and I like the feeling of accomplishing goals..

The target audience now is the 12 year old give it to me now or im telling my parents crowd. Thats not me... So jsut to reempahsize my point... I quit because of what SOE did... They destoryed the game.. not me. I never abanonded the game.. I left when SOE abandoned me.

Xcathdra

Ok, first bro, did you watch one of the movies then post? - Nope.. Ive played since the game first came out... I know what the cantinas used to look like.. More to the point if you look at other videos, pre nge, you will see TONS of people outside starports, in Cities etc...

Second of all, I'm not "angry" at anyone lol. I'm trying to make a point. - Still waiting for your point bro..

The game is / was / always has been mediocore. - Mediocre at Pre CU or CU is still way better than what the NGE is. At least people were playing during the first 2 upgrades.

This particular community (The vocal minority?) is making it sound like the pre-NGE game was an MMO utopia and was perfect when in reality it wasn't even close. It was just as much a mess then as it is now. - And the Devs continue to lie about the game. They continue to ignore player feedback about the game. Again, SOE destroyed the game, not the playerbase.

1) Post history is living proof of that. - On which board? We posted liek there was no tomrrow on the SWG official forums and yet nothing got done. The devs contonued to ignore the feedback. They themselves have admitted now more than once that there communication sucks and they are trying to fix it.

2) Many posters here have completely lost objectivity. This is easily demonstrated by this thread. No one has bothered to follow the instructions. - I think you give yourself to much credit here man... People on these forums are vets.. We have played and know what it was like during all 3 combat upgrades. We've lost objectivity? How.. Because we dont liek what they did to the game.. Because we want our old game back? You know.. the one where we spent months grinding up our characters and years completeing quests and building our in game lives? We dont need to see the movie to know what the NGE/SOE took out of the game. If anything I think you are using flawed logic to think the players destroyed the game...

Also there are numerous threads that advoce physical violance to members of the Sony staff. That is a total lose of objectivity and boarders on irrational. There are a few titled post threads that single INDIVIDUAL people out, simply because of a video game. That is a loss of objectivity. You guys discredit and trivialize yourselves everytime you post that sort of crap. - Not everyone is like that, and if you actually spent time reading these forums you would see there are more topics and posts that far outnumber the couple that call for the violence part, so dont take a few isolated incidents and twist it to the point you have made it. There are the few who post stuff like that, but to my knowledge no one has ever been harmed. I will agree the ones that threaten violence are a little over the top, but I think they are made due to being being pissed and are not meant to be taken as seriously as you are taking them.

Like it or not, here is another "fact" None of these game companies are in it for any higher purpose then to make a profit. None of them. What Sony did was called "risk taking". - I think what you mean to say is what sony did was in "fact"screwing over / eliminating their current fan base to try to get a different target audience who would hopefully spend more money. I know how a buisness works, and yes profits are #1... #2 should be Ethics, which Sony DOES NOT HAVE. They treat their consumers like crap.

They are taking a chance that by making the changes they did, there will be a greater payoff. - Greed.. Nothing more.

SWG was marginal and NOT growing. Yet it had WAY more numbers of people playing during the Pre CU and CU than what the NGE does.. What does that tell us?

A licence that should have grabbed far more then it did. So, as a business decission, you all where sacrificed. - Again you mean Sony screwed over their fans/consumers for more money. It blew up in their face. Smedly himself stated the game is no where near where it needs to be. He also stated they underestimated the number of "multiple box owners". Translation = We screwed over the Vet community for more moeny, but didnt realize exactly how much money they spent, how many accounts they owned, and how much we actually stood to loose by "sacrificing" them.

It happens everyday in the business world. I'm not saying you have to like it but thats life.

Everything was cool last week when I made fun of the game but now that I question the motive this communities dislike all of a sudden "I'm angry". LoL, thats not the case at all.

The "spirit of the game" is really what I'm talking about here. So again, - Spirit of the game? or Game Mechanics? Or the fact nothing changed but the vets who left? Make up your mind..

Watch Cantina Crawl XIX and tell me how what those people did, has changed? Their game was far from perfect also. In fact being an entertainer in their time sucked worse then it does now. - Like hell... Back then we had a reason for existing. We had Battle Fatigue, We had mind wounds, action wounds, health wounds. We had buffs.. There was a reason for people to come into cantinas. There was something called profession interdependancy.. Should I mention now that publish 28 again nerfed the entertainers? They managed to bork it up where entertainers lost dances and lost the length of the mind buffs... They have it WORSE NOW than before.

But they had a passion for the game. Much like a professional sportsman who must endure a change in the rules. - This analogy is just so far off its not funny. For one im not represented by a union that negotiates with sony over publishes and changes. Secondly im not PAID to play.. I PAY to play. SONY changed the rules of the game.. So I left, along with most of the player base. Third you will never see MAJOR changes to a sports game MIDSEASON, let alone 3 MAJOR changes within a year. If sports tried this it would not stand. People would most likely loose thir jobs over it as well. The fans would be pissed etc etc.

To sum it up man trying to blame "us" (the ones that sony calls the vocal minority) for the games demise is jsut plain ludicris. To make another point the first CU we got we actually got to vote on whcih one we wanted (at the time there were 2 versions of it). Lets put it this way.. The poll stated cleary whcih version "we" wanted... The devs gave us the other version, and since then there has been no polls like that again. If sony would actually listen to the playerbase things would never of gotten this out of hand. Had they taken the time and effort to fix what was wrong in the begining instead of rushing out crappy publishes and expansions becuase they are greedy as hell, the game woud of been balanced and would of been fun. Instead they worked on other projects, and ignored the core game. Were people pissed because the game was borked... yes...Were people even more pissed when the CU came out.. yes... The NGE was the final straw... We left becuase it was NOT the game we bought... I dont play FPs games for a reason... The professions I played were either reomved or so nerfed it wasnt even funny.

The game, to a certain extent, is what we make of it.. I will agree with that... The other 95 percent is what Sony does to make us want to play. So far, they have done nothing that makes me want to go back. Especially if all I am going to do is stand in an empty Cantina.

Xcathdra

Torak · May 2006

and one more thing ........... look at the dates, THEY WERE ALL BEFORE NGE, dumbass. and we didnt destroy the game, $OE and LA did, they wanted a target fanbase of children. Yeah they did succeed doin so, i mean, your playing arent you?? Maybe you should change all that NGE shit to CU.... just a thought

Hey whats with the personal attack bro? Yes thats my point. They where before NGE. So as the title has stated, what has changed? Some arbatry game mechanics? Entertainers where kicked in the head over and over way before the NGE.

You claim its targeting children but you can't make a point without calling me a name? Whos childish here?

tvalentine · May 2006

Originally posted by Torak

and one more thing ........... look at the dates, THEY WERE ALL BEFORE NGE, dumbass. and we didnt destroy the game, $OE and LA did, they wanted a target fanbase of children. Yeah they did succeed doin so, i mean, your playing arent you?? Maybe you should change all that NGE shit to CU.... just a thought

Hey whats with the personal attack bro? Yes thats my point. They where before NGE. So as the title has stated, what has changed? Some arbatry game mechanics? Entertainers where kicked in the head over and over way before the NGE.

You claim its targeting children but you can't make a point without calling me a name? Whos childish here?

sry its late, i apologise. But THATS whats changed...... the population, even these carefree entertainers finally got fed up with it and quit, im pretty sure they had some sub combat proffesions... but now they cant have them, now its only /flo 1 /flo 3 /flo 4. do you not see it ..... or am i not seein something

Xcathdra · May 2006

Originally posted by Torak

and one more thing ........... look at the dates, THEY WERE ALL BEFORE NGE, dumbass. and we didnt destroy the game, $OE and LA did, they wanted a target fanbase of children. Yeah they did succeed doin so, i mean, your playing arent you?? Maybe you should change all that NGE shit to CU.... just a thought

Hey whats with the personal attack bro? Yes thats my point. They where before NGE. So as the title has stated, what has changed? Some arbatry game mechanics? Uhmm.. way more than jsut game mechanics... Professions eliminated, professions nerfed, quests being broke and not fixed, graphics errors, the list goes on.

Entertainers where kicked in the head over and over way before the NGE. - And the NGE has again nerfed em down

You claim its targeting children but you can't make a point without calling me a name? Whos childish here?

The game is geared towards the 12 year old I want it now crowd. They dont want to work for anything in the game. They never wanted to group to get the Mandalorian armor.. I have seen more in game post NGE than before the NGE. Its a constant button mash for combat, with combat only lasting 3-5 seconds. They took out the complexities in the game. a Sony VP said they NGE was more or less to appeal to the kill, loot, repeat crowds, and that the game had "to much reading" in it. SONY themselves have stated in so many words the game is beiung dumbed down. What more do you want here?

Xcathdra

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