Now that you mention it, I recall all three times I've tried to play Eve. Each time I'd make a character, and within a half hour at most, Still in the starting area, a big freaking ship warps in and kills me, and pods me! A noob with nothing podded in a High Sec starting zone. In frustration, I go to another faction and try a new character. Same bloody thing! I go through all the factions, get podded every time in noobyland, and give up. This happened the exact same way ALL THREE TIMES I'VE TRIED EVE !
If there are bots there, they must be high levels, because the gankers kill anything they think is an easy kill, even in High Security areas. Unless of course it's the gankers bots.
Your story seems far fetched, especially in light of the specific prohibition against.it.
That must be a fairly new system that EVE has made. never heard of it before...and was not there last time( though it was a bit ago) that i played.
Never had anyone flat out run around in EVE safe space killing newbs either though. Scamming, and/or tricking them into attacking them though..ya they would do that quite often.
My time in EVE they would not kill in safe areas unless it was profitable. Which meant a lot of people would not fly anything really valuable. Kind of made the PVE part of game a bore...could not fly your best stuff around:)
On topic though...money is pretty much the main reason that dev's do not make sandbox games both PVE and PVP. Lot more cash needed to cater to the pve crowd.
For a few, like EVE, in particular, the dev;s just do not care to change their view of the game they make/made. And will forgo the possible better cash from it. Just does not fit in with their views, and they will not change.
Anyone but me find it funny that in EvE, you can be killed in "Safe Places" which makes you wonder, if you can he PKed there.. what makes them safe?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ashes will not have PVE servers because the game itself is built around PVP and change. What they need to make sure they balance is the PKing debuffs with allowing PVP in the open world. I think they need some work on the PVP idea. For example the SWG Flagging system is great. However it has its flaws like allowing people to not be flagged and zerg a castle during a siege.
How I would fix this is use the SWG Flagging system, BUT in a node that is undersiege I would make everyone in that node flagged for PVP. The reason I would do that is because if you are in that zone during PVP you should be flagged and not protected by being in PVE mode. That I feel would be a good compromise.
I would also make certain areas full out PVP areas so if you are there you will be flagged but I wouldnt make it so critical to PVE play that it forces PVE players into PVP areas. I would make these areas lucrative like higher amounts of resources vs the PVE areas, but if a player does not want to engage in PVP and wants to get the same PVE resources just at a little slower rate then OK. They will take risk with their caravans, but I think reducing the ganking and greifing PVP play should come in mind. That does not mean that there will not be PVE players like myself in PVP areas getting more resources. I will be there. BUT I am going to bring friends who will own the solo or the 2 gankers in the area. Its called friends and if I bring 4 or 5 very good PVPers and you alone try to PK me, well so sad so sorry when they kill you.
Here's the thing, unflagged resource gathers can play real havoc with the economy as there is no way for flagged players to control access to them.
Contributes to hyperinflation, breeds botters who can only be stopped by mods, and a host of other issues.
If a game is trying to create a functioning economy having those who can influence but not be impacted in turn is a poor idea.
When there are people gaining resources without restriction it tends to drive values down, not up, what does drive values up is when something stops or restricts those resources being gathered/sold, for reference, see Eve Online.
See, economics is complicated, takes much to explain. In game currency is a resource in many games, EVE is a great example where botters are driving inflation as they are farming anomalies which provide direct ISK payouts.
Even in null sec where they can be attacked they thrive, and most of the high sec ones are untouchable.
While in theory ore, or wood should go down in price, rare is the MMORPG where I've seen that to be true, likely due to insufficient money drains.
Also, even if true, what if I as miner do not want to see prices drop, and would prefer to kill the competition to keep my ore prices higher?
Now that you mention it, I recall all three times I've tried to play Eve. Each time I'd make a character, and within a half hour at most, Still in the starting area, a big freaking ship warps in and kills me, and pods me! A noob with nothing podded in a High Sec starting zone. In frustration, I go to another faction and try a new character. Same bloody thing! I go through all the factions, get podded every time in noobyland, and give up. This happened the exact same way ALL THREE TIMES I'VE TRIED EVE !
If there are bots there, they must be high levels, because the gankers kill anything they think is an easy kill, even in High Security areas. Unless of course it's the gankers bots.
Would have to wonder what name you are using for your characters in Eve that people go out of their way to kill you.
Anyone but me find it funny that in EvE, you can be killed in "Safe Places" which makes you wonder, if you can he PKed there.. what makes them safe?
There are no 'safe' spaces in Eve Online, but that doesn't mean that you can destroy others ships without consequences, Concord warps in and will tackle/kill 'gankers' which is why they tend to use cheap disposable ships, you don't get high sec gankers using Golems for instance
Anyone but me find it funny that in EvE, you can be killed in "Safe Places" which makes you wonder, if you can he PKed there.. what makes them safe?
They actually designed it really good, for a free for all PvP deathmatch MMO.
Yes, in safe zones you can be killed. But, you can do things to make yourself "less attractive". To suicide gank in safe place usually person wants a greater reward than the risk. I dunno how it is now though, but when I played I never once got killed in high sec.
Though...I found nullsec to be a lot "safer" when I played despite never really having problems in high sec. But to get to nullsec is pretty dangerous trip, but reward is great. Lowsec was so camped when I played, and was pretty intense up to the nullsec area.
Other free for all deathmatch PvP MMO clones would do a lot better to copy EVE's design and make it killable anywhere, but at a very high risk to do so in some areas.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
To add to the above since I kinda had it in my mind so want to put it down. In my opinion, the worst design is the bait and switch design. This is true for both PVE or PvP MMOs
In PVE MMOs, solo (with maybe some groups), heavy quest focus...but mostly heavily able to be soloed. But surprise, endgame is all group based and almost no soloing to advance. Also this isn't a "tutorial" like some idiots say, but literally bait and switch. The endgame in these MMOs is nothing like soloing, so its not even a "tutorial" that has anything to do with endgame lol
In PvP MMOs this doesn't happen as much. But black desert online did this. PVE only...level 50...surprise forced PvP with no choice of PVE. This pissed off so many players, and is (to me) borderline scam. Its why so many ask for PVE servers, because the whole game is PVE only, not even a choice to PvP, until level 50 lol.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Stop playing OWPVP games and entering OWPVP threads and crying about your inner hurt. Go see a therapist. Stop calling people who play the games "scum" and "sociopaths" or whatever the fragile inner sad you have compels you to say. There are some great games that have 0 OWPVP activity. Stop being an infant who can't stand to see people enjoying something and go be happy.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Stop playing OWPVP games and entering OWPVP threads and crying about your inner hurt. Go see a therapist. Stop calling people who play the games "scum" and "sociopaths" or whatever the fragile inner sad you have compels you to say. There are some great games that have 0 OWPVP activity. Stop being an infant who can't stand to see people enjoying something and go be happy.
Yeah I agree. How dare players have a choice in how they play a game. nasty freedom lovers, I hate those PVE players that don't have any choice in sandbox MMOs, they should find a singleplayer game to play if they don't want PvP or play crappy themepark MMOs. Nasty PVErs ruining MMOs.
I definitely agree with you. They need therapy and severe mental help, maybe even put in a mental asylum. Anyone who dislikes PvP in sandbox MMOs, needs a lot of medication and mental help.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Ashes will not have PVE servers because the game itself is built around PVP and change. What they need to make sure they balance is the PKing debuffs with allowing PVP in the open world. I think they need some work on the PVP idea. For example the SWG Flagging system is great. However it has its flaws like allowing people to not be flagged and zerg a castle during a siege.
How I would fix this is use the SWG Flagging system, BUT in a node that is undersiege I would make everyone in that node flagged for PVP. The reason I would do that is because if you are in that zone during PVP you should be flagged and not protected by being in PVE mode. That I feel would be a good compromise.
I would also make certain areas full out PVP areas so if you are there you will be flagged but I wouldnt make it so critical to PVE play that it forces PVE players into PVP areas. I would make these areas lucrative like higher amounts of resources vs the PVE areas, but if a player does not want to engage in PVP and wants to get the same PVE resources just at a little slower rate then OK. They will take risk with their caravans, but I think reducing the ganking and greifing PVP play should come in mind. That does not mean that there will not be PVE players like myself in PVP areas getting more resources. I will be there. BUT I am going to bring friends who will own the solo or the 2 gankers in the area. Its called friends and if I bring 4 or 5 very good PVPers and you alone try to PK me, well so sad so sorry when they kill you.
Here's the thing, unflagged resource gathers can play real havoc with the economy as there is no way for flagged players to control access to them.
Contributes to hyperinflation, breeds botters who can only be stopped by mods, and a host of other issues.
If a game is trying to create a functioning economy having those who can influence but not be impacted in turn is a poor idea.
When there are people gaining resources without restriction it tends to drive values down, not up, what does drive values up is when something stops or restricts those resources being gathered/sold, for reference, see Eve Online.
See, economics is complicated, takes much to explain. In game currency is a resource in many games, EVE is a great example where botters are driving inflation as they are farming anomalies which provide direct ISK payouts.
Even in null sec where they can be attacked they thrive, and most of the high sec ones are untouchable.
While in theory ore, or wood should go down in price, rare is the MMORPG where I've seen that to be true, likely due to insufficient money drains.
Also, even if true, what if I as miner do not want to see prices drop, and would prefer to kill the competition to keep my ore prices higher?
Now that you mention it, I recall all three times I've tried to play Eve. Each time I'd make a character, and within a half hour at most, Still in the starting area, a big freaking ship warps in and kills me, and pods me! A noob with nothing podded in a High Sec starting zone. In frustration, I go to another faction and try a new character. Same bloody thing! I go through all the factions, get podded every time in noobyland, and give up. This happened the exact same way ALL THREE TIMES I'VE TRIED EVE !
If there are bots there, they must be high levels, because the gankers kill anything they think is an easy kill, even in High Security areas. Unless of course it's the gankers bots.
Eve is not a game people can just jump into and play like they do most. I mostly PvE but decided to give Eve a try and ended up playing it for a few years. I did my homework first by reading what was going on in the game on the forums and even reading pirate forums who loved to give details about their exploits and what types of victims they were most interested in. I learned about corps. that specialized in training new players, invited new players to join them, and walked them through making builds that didn't suck.
So when I did play I pretty much knew what to expect and actually found it enjoyable with a lot of thrills. I had good days and bad days but it was the nature of the game so I didn't let the bad days bother me. Eve would be a lot more popular IMO, if they put new players in corps that specialized in training bring new players and had excellent track records of doing so.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Anyone but me find it funny that in EvE, you can be killed in "Safe Places" which makes you wonder, if you can he PKed there.. what makes them safe?
They actually designed it really good, for a free for all PvP deathmatch MMO.
Yes, in safe zones you can be killed. But, you can do things to make yourself "less attractive". To suicide gank in safe place usually person wants a greater reward than the risk. I dunno how it is now though, but when I played I never once got killed in high sec.
Though...I found nullsec to be a lot "safer" when I played despite never really having problems in high sec. But to get to nullsec is pretty dangerous trip, but reward is great. Lowsec was so camped when I played, and was pretty intense up to the nullsec area.
Other free for all deathmatch PvP MMO clones would do a lot better to copy EVE's design and make it killable anywhere, but at a very high risk to do so in some areas.
maybe so, but AFIK, EvE is the only Deathmatch PvP MMO that has maintained any success.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Lazy design basically. They are counting on PvP to amuse some, and for it to slow down the efforts of others.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you look at any MMO, well just about any, that have both PvE and PvP servers. The PvP servers have like 1/10th the population of PvE servers. Business-wise it's a horrible idea to just have PvP servers.
I've said it at least 100 times, or just about everytime a PvP focused MMO comes out, and I'll say it again. You CANNOT have an open world PvP MMO anymore. In today's world, there are too many griefers and not enough police to kill them. There used to be whole guilds that would police areas and protect people.
Back in the earlier MMO days, if you griefed someone or even killed someone in fair combat and took their stuff of their dead body, you would have half the server hunting you down. Today, it seems about 90% of people who play PvP are the type of people that just want to KoS everyone, like it's Call of Duty or something.
It is true that a PvP game requires less resources and a PvE game is more expensive to keep going as content dries up fast. Since players are the content in PvP games it becomes infinitely cheaper to produce which is the direction most games are going.
PvP and PvE are a different focus, it is cost effective to only have one in a MMO. I prefer PvE with regional factional PvP, but the more you concentrate on one type of gameplay the more you take from the other one.
I am more interested in how these nodes are supposed to work and how that effects player interaction.
Smaller indie MMO devs know they can't compete in the PVE "arms race," unless it can be made so players willingly rerun such content via alts, rerolls or even arduous grinds.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Smaller indie MMO devs know they can't compete in the PVE "arms race," unless it can be made so players willingly rerun such content via alts, rerolls or even arduous grinds.
There are ways round this, allow quests to be modded and just have the dev team ratify and organise their consumption as they wish. Not an easy solution by any means but doable.
Smaller indie MMO devs know they can't compete in the PVE "arms race," unless it can be made so players willingly rerun such content via alts, rerolls or even arduous grinds.
There are ways round this, allow quests to be modded and just have the dev team ratify and organise their consumption as they wish. Not an easy solution by any means but doable.
Dungeon creation tools and procedurally generated content also might be possible solutions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It is true that a PvP game requires less resources and a PvE game is more expensive to keep going as content dries up fast. Since players are the content in PvP games it becomes infinitely cheaper to produce which is the direction most games are going.
Good PvP is hard to do. It's not as simple as creating a PvE game and then throwing in some PvP servers, hoping on a fart and a prayer that tossing PvP on top of mechanics that aren't really designed for it turns out well. The mechanics need to be well-designed and intentional. Many have already cited Eve for PvP done right.
Additionally, when it is done right, I feel that playing against another person or group of people is the ultimate challenge/risk. Whether it is economic, territorial, resource control, 1v1, group versus group, etc., others can provide satisfaction, lasting challenge, and meaningfulness that you simply can't get by beating that end-game PvE raid over and over.
I have a really hard time getting into single player games in part because I feel that, outside of my own personal accomplishments, what I do is inconsequential and scripted. By design, you're predestined to kill that final boss. I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me. As corny as it seems, I want my actions to have an impact or the potential to do so. It's hard to get that feeling when my victories are scripted and done in isolation.
Rhoms said: I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me.
Problem is, your kills in PVP aren't any more consequential. It's not like you walk around with the ears of your victims around your neck. What you want is a smarter adversary, but only so smart.
Imagine if you kill some NPC. Nothing special to it. It dopped a few copper and you gained a little XP. Then as you roamed the country side, you noticed that some of the NPCs seemed to actually be stalking you. While you were sitting to rest, you get ambushed by two of them. For what? You think? As the beating ensues, they claim the right of revenge of their kinsman. You run for your life and they chase you. They keep chasing you. They don't stop chasing you. So you decide to turn and fight. You defeat them and think nothing more of it.
The next day you log on and enter a small village. You are completely overwhelmed by the villagers and killed.
PVE can be just as thrilling and exhilarating as PVP, only it takes a lot more work to write a game that does all that. PVP is simple. You just add players to a world and let the mayhem ensue or not ensue... because it really is all player driven.
Rhoms said: I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me.
Problem is, your kills in PVP aren't any more consequential. It's not like you walk around with the ears of your victims around your neck. What you want is a smarter adversary, but only so smart.
Imagine if you kill some NPC. Nothing special to it. It dopped a few copper and you gained a little XP. Then as you roamed the country side, you noticed that some of the NPCs seemed to actually be stalking you. While you were sitting to rest, you get ambushed by two of them. For what? You think? As the beating ensues, they claim the right of revenge of their kinsman. You run for your life and they chase you. They keep chasing you. They don't stop chasing you. So you decide to turn and fight. You defeat them and think nothing more of it.
The next day you log on and enter a small village. You are completely overwhelmed by the villagers and killed.
PVE can be just as thrilling and exhilarating as PVP, only it takes a lot more work to write a game that does all that. PVP is simple. You just add players to a world and let the mayhem ensue or not ensue... because it really is all player driven.
In games with good PVP, it can be consequential. As an example, through conflict, territory and resource control can ebb and flow between factions. Conflict between players can create and drive the game's story.
I completely see your point, and I 100% agree that PVE can be done better. It should be done better. My contention is that at the end of the day, you're just fighting the computer. I can only get so much mileage out of that.
I think this discussion illustrates a point - in the post-WoW world, it's hard for a MMO to be all things to all people. It's hard to cater to a lot of different play styles and do it well. I imagine that most developers can juggle three balls, but toss in a fourth or fifth and they will drop all of them. We all have different wants, drives, and preferences. The good thing is that more upcoming MMOs are starting to pick up on this and cater to a more niche audience.
Rhoms said: I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me.
What you want is a smarter adversary, but only so smart... So much this...
In EVE you attack a group of small Sleeper probe ships, hoping to score some rare but vital components. As the beating ensues, they summon a swarm of their much larger and deadly Battleship class brothers and unless you happen to have a your Carrier or Dreadnaught class ship handy you run for your life and they chase you.
They keep chasing you, into the next system even. They don't stop chasing you no matter how far you run, so you decide to turn and fight. You die horribly.
Or you dock up in a nearby station, safe from harm. You undock a hour later and they are still there waiting and you die horribly.
The next day you log on after downtime resets everything and thankfully the sleepers are gone.
You decide the reward doesn't equal the risk (because even capital ships don't necessarily prevail these fights) and go back to shooting rocks with mining lasers.
While not thought of as a PVE game, EVE has actually done a good job at creating dangerous NPC encounters and added some intelligence to them.
Anyone who has done this content knows the pain of wormhole Sleepers wrecking a carrier or Dread, True Sansha's incursions pirates breaking through and shredding very expensive player pirate vessels (they always blame the shield repping squad), or get their multi billion ISK Tengu popped in the last room of a 10/10 escalation.
What players do want is content they can beat, perhaps not always but certainly consistently once they learn how to.
Why PVP isn't acceptable as an alternative in MMOs is often times there is no way for them to prevail as their human opponents refuse to cooperate and offer a predictable and fair fight.
If NPCs were coded to react as humans do many players wouldn't accept it, hence the gameplay delivered so often today.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
wurm online does what you want and is about as sandbox as they come.
Best and most complex sandbox that ever existed in history of mankind. It has PVE and PVP and its only fault is its age. If Wurm got a new engine all other wannabe sandboxes would pack up and cease to exist.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
AoC deves have said that they there won't have pve servers because pvp is needed for the world to change. With no PvP = No Node wars = No change in the world. Will stay the same, Same dungeons same world bosses same events etc etc.
I Never liked pvp but I get there point... Pvp i AoC is needed. If you want changes in the world.
I understand where you are coming from, certainly I do. The ASH devs could certainly figure out a way to solve the problem for a PVE version.
The chances are the real reason is more likely lack of resources, staff, and they are aiming for a specific niche of the global player-base.
Personally, I want my PVE Sandbox with Realm Vs. Realm, until then, there are certainly other titles out there for me to invest my time in. ASH seems like a great title for those who want the type of play style being offered and I am sure most the subscribed player-base will love it.
Bottom line, ASH devs can develop what they think will bring in the bacon or loyal player-base, but for one player looking for new game to be excited about, my money will stay in my bank.
"So why not give PvP an option like it is in SWG, or VERY safe areas like in EVE? Why force pvp to those who don't want it? Sure EVE PvP can happen anywhere, but its far safer and that works too where danger is everywhere. I only ever got pvped when I left high sec to go to nullsec (which btw, nullsec in EVE is the safest areas in the game funny enough, low-sec is very dangerous, but barely anyone in nullsec when I played)"
Because PvPers (no-lifers) are the ones who's rushing MMOs (biggest spenders) to become quickly powerful and so they can reach the (their) endgame which is eternal ganking.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom. (Death)” ― Terry Pratchett,
Comments
Never had anyone flat out run around in EVE safe space killing newbs either though. Scamming, and/or tricking them into attacking them though..ya they would do that quite often.
My time in EVE they would not kill in safe areas unless it was profitable. Which meant a lot of people would not fly anything really valuable. Kind of made the PVE part of game a bore...could not fly your best stuff around:)
On topic though...money is pretty much the main reason that dev's do not make sandbox games both PVE and PVP. Lot more cash needed to cater to the pve crowd.
For a few, like EVE, in particular, the dev;s just do not care to change their view of the game they make/made. And will forgo the possible better cash from it. Just does not fit in with their views, and they will not change.
Yes, in safe zones you can be killed. But, you can do things to make yourself "less attractive". To suicide gank in safe place usually person wants a greater reward than the risk. I dunno how it is now though, but when I played I never once got killed in high sec.
Though...I found nullsec to be a lot "safer" when I played despite never really having problems in high sec. But to get to nullsec is pretty dangerous trip, but reward is great. Lowsec was so camped when I played, and was pretty intense up to the nullsec area.
Other free for all deathmatch PvP MMO clones would do a lot better to copy EVE's design and make it killable anywhere, but at a very high risk to do so in some areas.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
In PVE MMOs, solo (with maybe some groups), heavy quest focus...but mostly heavily able to be soloed. But surprise, endgame is all group based and almost no soloing to advance. Also this isn't a "tutorial" like some idiots say, but literally bait and switch. The endgame in these MMOs is nothing like soloing, so its not even a "tutorial" that has anything to do with endgame lol
In PvP MMOs this doesn't happen as much. But black desert online did this. PVE only...level 50...surprise forced PvP with no choice of PVE. This pissed off so many players, and is (to me) borderline scam. Its why so many ask for PVE servers, because the whole game is PVE only, not even a choice to PvP, until level 50 lol.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I definitely agree with you. They need therapy and severe mental help, maybe even put in a mental asylum. Anyone who dislikes PvP in sandbox MMOs, needs a lot of medication and mental help.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
So when I did play I pretty much knew what to expect and actually found it enjoyable with a lot of thrills. I had good days and bad days but it was the nature of the game so I didn't let the bad days bother me. Eve would be a lot more popular IMO, if they put new players in corps that specialized in training bring new players and had excellent track records of doing so.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Far less money has to be spent on PVP centric games, hence the popularity of it in the designs of many recent titles.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've said it at least 100 times, or just about everytime a PvP focused MMO comes out, and I'll say it again. You CANNOT have an open world PvP MMO anymore. In today's world, there are too many griefers and not enough police to kill them. There used to be whole guilds that would police areas and protect people.
Back in the earlier MMO days, if you griefed someone or even killed someone in fair combat and took their stuff of their dead body, you would have half the server hunting you down. Today, it seems about 90% of people who play PvP are the type of people that just want to KoS everyone, like it's Call of Duty or something.
I am more interested in how these nodes are supposed to work and how that effects player interaction.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Additionally, when it is done right, I feel that playing against another person or group of people is the ultimate challenge/risk. Whether it is economic, territorial, resource control, 1v1, group versus group, etc., others can provide satisfaction, lasting challenge, and meaningfulness that you simply can't get by beating that end-game PvE raid over and over.
I have a really hard time getting into single player games in part because I feel that, outside of my own personal accomplishments, what I do is inconsequential and scripted. By design, you're predestined to kill that final boss. I have over 1000 hours in Skyrim, but at the end of the day, my character's accomplishments, the game world I've created, and the bad guys I vanquished are mine alone and known only to me. As corny as it seems, I want my actions to have an impact or the potential to do so. It's hard to get that feeling when my victories are scripted and done in isolation.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
Imagine if you kill some NPC. Nothing special to it. It dopped a few copper and you gained a little XP. Then as you roamed the country side, you noticed that some of the NPCs seemed to actually be stalking you. While you were sitting to rest, you get ambushed by two of them. For what? You think? As the beating ensues, they claim the right of revenge of their kinsman. You run for your life and they chase you. They keep chasing you. They don't stop chasing you. So you decide to turn and fight. You defeat them and think nothing more of it.
The next day you log on and enter a small village. You are completely overwhelmed by the villagers and killed.
PVE can be just as thrilling and exhilarating as PVP, only it takes a lot more work to write a game that does all that. PVP is simple. You just add players to a world and let the mayhem ensue or not ensue... because it really is all player driven.
I completely see your point, and I 100% agree that PVE can be done better. It should be done better. My contention is that at the end of the day, you're just fighting the computer. I can only get so much mileage out of that.
I think this discussion illustrates a point - in the post-WoW world, it's hard for a MMO to be all things to all people. It's hard to cater to a lot of different play styles and do it well. I imagine that most developers can juggle three balls, but toss in a fourth or fifth and they will drop all of them. We all have different wants, drives, and preferences. The good thing is that more upcoming MMOs are starting to pick up on this and cater to a more niche audience.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
Why PVP isn't acceptable as an alternative in MMOs is often times there is no way for them to prevail as their human opponents refuse to cooperate and offer a predictable and fair fight.
If NPCs were coded to react as humans do many players wouldn't accept it, hence the gameplay delivered so often today.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
― Terry Pratchett,