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Fallout 76 May have a Huge Hacking Problem - MMORPG.com

2

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  • nfacatriusnfacatrius Member UncommonPosts: 100
    They don't need to sue the hackers but simply ban them.

    Unlike fortnite, fallout isnt a f2p game and thus most ppl think 10x before using those a 2nd time after an acc was banned.
    mikeb0817
  • jmlane223jmlane223 Member UncommonPosts: 197
    edited November 2018

    Nyctelios said:


    jmlane223 said:





    I just read on that the FOV has been locked and Frame Rate capped at 63 fps. These appear to be hard coded so you can't change them. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-fallout-76-beta-now-locks-the-fov-and-caps-framerate-at-63-fps/






    You can still speed hack other ways I wont detail out. As well as just teleport around the map


    Why not? Nobody here is enticing cheating and hacking. We are discussing the game many issues. You don't need to enter in specifics but saying "there is a thing but I won't say" proves nor adds nothing useful.



    For basic "anyone can do it" hacks, cheat engine for starters. Sure it's more easily detected because of how common it is. But it can easily show you what things the client is in control of and it's a lot. My "friend" was able to movement/attack speed hack(easiest thing to do if you've ever used cheat engine in a game that's client reliant for positioning), teleport hack and negate reloading in about 15 minutes. After I seen that I instantly refunded my Amazon preorder
    [Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    They don't need to sue the hackers but simply ban them.

    Unlike fortnite, fallout isnt a f2p game and thus most ppl think 10x before using those a 2nd time after an acc was banned.
    Don't "all" hackers use stolen credit cards to buy their throw away accounts, or so I've been told.

    ;)
    MrMelGibson

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  • TacticalZombehTacticalZombeh Member UncommonPosts: 431


    I just read on that the FOV has been locked and Frame Rate capped at 63 fps. These appear to be hard coded so you can't change them. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-fallout-76-beta-now-locks-the-fov-and-caps-framerate-at-63-fps/



    Good to see the FOV auto adjusts to ultra-wide.

    As to the Title... Water = Wet.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    thunderC said:
    Starting to think they avoided a Steam release because of the refund policy there. Just sayin....
    I think it might be the 30 percent cut steam takes.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]MrMelGibson

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  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,039

    Torval said:

    Good article G. I've been watching this since someone posted a reddit thread about it in Slack.

    This one is on Bethesda to demonstrate the concerns are covered. The people making the claims are modders who play with and test the limits of their engine. If someone has demonstrable proof of concept then Bethesda and ZoS need demonstrate the fix.

    The keystone issue here are mods and how the game loads functionality. The TL;DR is that the engine itself is modular so unless they lock out mods completely their game is rife for hacking by an experienced group with lots of source material.

    Bethesda could lock out all mods except those explicitly approved. This would allow them to validate file integrity before loading assets. This cannot be done and still allow open modification. This is the route I expect them to take. It will also become a revenue point.

    There are still some deep core issues with the engine. It does a lot of client side work. That makes exploitation magnitudes easier. Like Gaz said in the article, they will have to implement server side checks and it doesn't do that now.

    Remember those recent MMOs that got fried for launching a PvP game with client side validation? This is doing that same thing, only it's much worse because everyone already knows how to do it and have built mods that leverage those engine traits.

    So, there you have it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. There is a lot going on here.



    So from what I gather from the information you shared. The console versions are a much safer bet for less hacking. At least for the first couple of months. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
    [Deleted User]
  • evolgrinzevolgrinz Member UncommonPosts: 151
    This could be fixed by not allowing any mods other than approved mods on a mod hub in the client (like World of Tanks is doing).
    Or just give us the option to play on private servers or solo.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Nyctelios said:
    jmlane223 said:

    Nyctelios said:


    jmlane223 said:





    I just read on that the FOV has been locked and Frame Rate capped at 63 fps. These appear to be hard coded so you can't change them. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-fallout-76-beta-now-locks-the-fov-and-caps-framerate-at-63-fps/






    You can still speed hack other ways I wont detail out. As well as just teleport around the map


    Why not? Nobody here is enticing cheating and hacking. We are discussing the game many issues. You don't need to enter in specifics but saying "there is a thing but I won't say" proves nor adds nothing useful.



    For basic "anyone can do it" hacks, cheat engine for starters. Sure it's more easily detected because of how common it is. But it can easily show you what things the client is in control of and it's a lot. My "friend" was able to movement/attack speed hack(easiest thing to do if you've ever used cheat engine in a game that's client reliant for positioning), teleport hack and negate reloading in about 15 minutes. After I seen that I instantly refunded my Amazon preorder
    So basically third party softwares that can be tracked, making your Bethesda account, which is tied to all the games you paid for banned.

    Ok.
    The threat of banning has never been effective in stopping hacking and cheating in any game I know of.

    The multitude of paid 3rd-party hacking apps on the market is testament to that.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,039


    They don't need to sue the hackers but simply ban them.



    Unlike fortnite, fallout isnt a f2p game and thus most ppl think 10x before using those a 2nd time after an acc was banned.



    You think that's gonna stop Renoku!?

    Hello, Delivery....
  • kinkyJalepenokinkyJalepeno Member UncommonPosts: 1,044

    BadSpock said:

    Console master race!

    :smirk:



    Getting owned by PC hackers lol
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    To me is of their utmost incompetence, the design core on some things does not mind they are wanting to run a persistently online game, easily exposed to exploitation.

    They don't know how to create one online game, they are using the same Fallout 4 engine and that's it, if Fallout 76 was one console exclusive then sure they would get away with it, now on PC, online + PvP while having so many bits on the client power (as several tests and vids around shown)...

    Yeah... Nope.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    MaxBacon said:
    To me is of their utmost incompetence, the design core on some things does not mind they are wanting to run a persistently online game, easily exposed to exploitation.

    They don't know how to create one online game, they are using the same Fallout 4 engine and that's it, if Fallout 76 was one console exclusive then sure they would get away with it, now on PC, online + PvP while having so many bits on the client power (as several tests and vids around shown)...

    Yeah... Nope.
    In the short term, Bethesda may opt to split between PVP and PVE servers, whilst betting the farm on the "player-run" private servers that are supposedly coming...
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    That the IP's of players aren't encrypted and can be accessed is pretty disturbing in itself. Bethesda really need to get a new game engine this is just crazy stupid. :/
    kitarad
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    edited November 2018
    Phry said:
    That the IP's of players aren't encrypted and can be accessed is pretty disturbing in itself. Bethesda really need to get a new game engine this is just crazy stupid. :/

    Nyctelios said:
    Also, don't forget that characters created in modded servers won't be able to play in any other server but that one.
    Wait a minute you can play on your own modded server ? Like avoid PvP altogether? If so may buy it.

    Very disturbing the IP part.

    MaxBacon said:
    To me is of their utmost incompetence, the design core on some things does not mind they are wanting to run a persistently online game, easily exposed to exploitation.

    They don't know how to create one online game, they are using the same Fallout 4 engine and that's it, if Fallout 76 was one console exclusive then sure they would get away with it, now on PC, online + PvP while having so many bits on the client power (as several tests and vids around shown)...

    Yeah... Nope.
    In the short term, Bethesda may opt to split between PVP and PVE servers, whilst betting the farm on the "player-run" private servers that are supposedly coming...
    They won't have enough people who want to PvP if they do though.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    in b4 the crying starts again :)

    "why am i banned? i haven't done anything!"


    toooohooootally legit.

    MrMelGibsondoomex

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • jmlane223jmlane223 Member UncommonPosts: 197

    Nyctelios said:


    jmlane223 said:



    Nyctelios said:




    jmlane223 said:








    I just read on that the FOV has been locked and Frame Rate capped at 63 fps. These appear to be hard coded so you can't change them. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-fallout-76-beta-now-locks-the-fov-and-caps-framerate-at-63-fps/









    You can still speed hack other ways I wont detail out. As well as just teleport around the map




    Why not? Nobody here is enticing cheating and hacking. We are discussing the game many issues. You don't need to enter in specifics but saying "there is a thing but I won't say" proves nor adds nothing useful.






    For basic "anyone can do it" hacks, cheat engine for starters. Sure it's more easily detected because of how common it is. But it can easily show you what things the client is in control of and it's a lot.

    My "friend" was able to movement/attack speed hack(easiest thing to do if you've ever used cheat engine in a game that's client reliant for positioning), teleport hack and negate reloading in about 15 minutes. After I seen that I instantly refunded my Amazon preorder


    So basically third party softwares that can be tracked, making your Bethesda account, which is tied to all the games you paid for banned.

    Ok.



    Lol so you think hackers only use easily tracked software? The point is that even easily available software can hack the game. Meaning hacking is even easier than your normal online game, which means widespread hacking.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    Zenimax was who did ESO online so this means these people don't have any experience with a multiplayer game and the many problems associated with determined players who cheat.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,426
    Well even before this, as usual many were saying why play at launch? You want a decent gaming experience give it at least a few months after launch for any game.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    On  the bright side maybe the hackers/modders will put in a FOV slider. God the utter incompetence with Fallout 76...
    Aeander

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    Nilden said:
    On  the bright side maybe the hackers/modders will put in a FOV slider. God the utter incompetence with Fallout 76...
    modders possible, they did it once anyway, don't remember what game was though
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,060
    Nilden said:
    On  the bright side maybe the hackers/modders will put in a FOV slider. God the utter incompetence with Fallout 76...
    That's Bethesda for you. Release a half-assed shell and have the modders make it into a proper game in perpetuity. 
    alkarionlog
  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,421

    hyllyh said:

    awful how ppl cant play without hack, cheat, exploit etc

    it may be just a game



    One cheat mod I know of was the lockpick one, where it bascally re-enables the dev/debug bar that shows the sweet spot area which is where you need to move the hairpin then turn the screwdriver to successfully unlock it. I'd call it more a less annoyance thing than a real cheat as you still need the required amount of skill to even attempt to unlock it.

    I haven't pre-ordered Fo76, nor do I plan to, I am waiting to see how much of a disaster it is going to be at launch, I'm going to get popcorn because its going to be pretty entertaining I bet with all the issues it already has, If its this bad in a beta where you can only play a few hours at a time, imagine how bad it'll be when the servers are open 24/7.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,421

    jmlane223 said:



    Nyctelios said:




    jmlane223 said:





    Nyctelios said:






    jmlane223 said:











    I just read on that the FOV has been locked and Frame Rate capped at 63 fps. These appear to be hard coded so you can't change them. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-fallout-76-beta-now-locks-the-fov-and-caps-framerate-at-63-fps/












    You can still speed hack other ways I wont detail out. As well as just teleport around the map






    Why not? Nobody here is enticing cheating and hacking. We are discussing the game many issues. You don't need to enter in specifics but saying "there is a thing but I won't say" proves nor adds nothing useful.









    For basic "anyone can do it" hacks, cheat engine for starters. Sure it's more easily detected because of how common it is. But it can easily show you what things the client is in control of and it's a lot.



    My "friend" was able to movement/attack speed hack(easiest thing to do if you've ever used cheat engine in a game that's client reliant for positioning), teleport hack and negate reloading in about 15 minutes. After I seen that I instantly refunded my Amazon preorder




    So basically third party softwares that can be tracked, making your Bethesda account, which is tied to all the games you paid for banned.

    Ok.






    Lol so you think hackers only use easily tracked software? The point is that even easily available software can hack the game. Meaning hacking is even easier than your normal online game, which means widespread hacking.



    The problem is alot of "hacking" can be done without any other player even noticing, take the lockpick mod for example, no real way for any player to have any clue that your using it unless you tell them. Same for those hacking minigame mods for fo3/nv/4 where it bascally only has the correct word show up. I still find cheating in a online game lame, but if people can do it, you can bet they will do it. If so much stuff is client side, they could even program hotkeys to turn stuff on/off which makes it even harder to catch them.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    They can put a validation check for accessing the mega server so that a modded client can't log in.

    Main issue is real-time manipulation of assets. Trying to validate all the content during active play is exceptionally cumbersome.

    Gotta track certain actions that need to be verified against the server like manipulation of environmental assets and flag them so that it can reject/block the action or otherwise disconnects the account from the server.

    They don't need to disable modding of the client. They need the right protocols to regulate it within a controlled environment.
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