Epic said the same thing about Fortnite BR, the truth is the dev team is taking resources to build a BR game not a single backer asked for; If I was a backer I would have refunded as soon as they announced BR.
Excatly!
If for some reason the BR of this becomes successful, why would they bother finishing the mmo? And if it doesn't, it'll have been a nice waste of resources that could have been used for the mmo.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@jahlon care to update on this side? It would be interesting to see your take on Ashes of Creation: Apocalypse.
My apologizes for the delay in answering you. We had a real world issue.
This is a great example of a person (Steven) having a vision and being part of a community (MMORPGs) and having been the leader of a gaming guild/community (The White Order) but being really out of touch with it.
Intrepid Studios has had 4 major fumbles in the past 8 months when it comes to how it interacts with its own community and the gaming community as a whole.
The Self-publish turning into my.com/mail.ru being the EU/CIS publisher The staff number issue (2 different quotes/2 different staff sizes) they had last week [And "52 staff in San Diego" but 36 staff photos on the web page. This looks suspect and this dog doesn't hunt] The fact they seemed to jump on the BR train The monetization of the Apocalypse (its a test mode...it won't be around...we are monetizing it)
A lot of this comes from the fact Steven is trying to wear too many hats at one time. He's trying to be the CEO of the Studio, he's trying to be the Creative Director/Game Designer of the MMORPG and now Apocalypse, he's trying to be the Community Manager.
Intrepid is also got too many pokers in the fire. They are trying to launch their BR mode on the 18th, they have a new studio to move into after the first of the year, they have to onboard 48 in-house employees in the San Diego Studio (a deadline they have missed and punted 6 months down the road).
Steven needs to realize (and I believe he is beginning to) that yes a hungry dog will bite you. His community isn't going to be infinitely patient with the bullshit.
The montezation of the BR mode came about from a series of Its a testing mode... It may not hang around after launch... It will be there if the players like it... It will be a player acquisition funnel... MONETIZE THIS BITCH...
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
I'm reminded of one of the many quotes that was drilled into my head during my years in the military:
"Gentlemen, the officer who doesn't know his communications and supply as well as his tactics is totally useless."
- Gen. George S. Patton, USA
Right now Steven really needs to stop talking to the community. He needs to get the CM they have hired into the chair (she's still working at her other job) and let HER do the talking.
The New CM needs to be very careful, because its a room soaked in gasoline and if you make even one spark this is going to be exploded.
Today (13 December) we will be seeing a MMORPG livestream. That better be top shelf or its going to likewise be a dumpster fire.
Do I doubt they will release the MMORPG? No
Do I think they've already lost a significant number of potential players? Yes
Do I think they have stumbled into a minefield? Yes
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
He is a former mlm salesman. Monetize this bitch is the key phrase in both online games and mlm's.
Just remember, Girl Scouts of America are also MLM.
I did not know the girls had to pay hundreds of dollars to get in and build a down line to get rich.
That would be a pyramid scheme not MLM.
Oh, you mean more like ASHES referral program, check.
Nope, that is also anything but a pyramid scheme.
So many people were ill-informed about what a pyramid scheme is, I actually had to make a video about it.
I don't mind if people want to toss shade on a game, a person, a developer, but can you please at least make sure you are using the right insults?
A pyramid scheme has a major requirement: a buy in.
Every single person can use the referral program, even people who pay $0 and make $0 purchases.
I know people who can't afford to buy a pre-order back that have backers that have made perchases so they show pending cash to be paid after the game launches.
Now, if you want to say "There is no way they are ever going to pay that money out" Cool we can talk about that.
But calling something that isn't a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme, that's not cool.
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
He is a former mlm salesman. Monetize this bitch is the key phrase in both online games and mlm's.
Just remember, Girl Scouts of America are also MLM.
I did not know the girls had to pay hundreds of dollars to get in and build a down line to get rich.
That would be a pyramid scheme not MLM.
Oh, you mean more like ASHES referral program, check.
Nope, that is also anything but a pyramid scheme.
So many people were ill-informed about what a pyramid scheme is, I actually had to make a video about it.
I don't mind if people want to toss shade on a game, a person, a developer, but can you please at least make sure you are using the right insults?
A pyramid scheme has a major requirement: a buy in.
Every single person can use the referral program, even people who pay $0 and make $0 purchases.
I know people who can't afford to buy a pre-order back that have backers that have made perchases so they show pending cash to be paid after the game launches.
Now, if you want to say "There is no way they are ever going to pay that money out" Cool we can talk about that.
But calling something that isn't a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme, that's not cool.
No more uncool than someone ignorantly calling Girl Scouts a MLM organization.
I was actually closer as many MLMs flip over into pyramid scheme territory eventually.
Your qualifiers are a bit specious at best.
As for throwing shade at a game, I'm just getting warmed up, 2019 should prove to be a good year for being a harbinger.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
He is a former mlm salesman. Monetize this bitch is the key phrase in both online games and mlm's.
Just remember, Girl Scouts of America are also MLM.
I did not know the girls had to pay hundreds of dollars to get in and build a down line to get rich.
That would be a pyramid scheme not MLM.
Oh, you mean more like ASHES referral program, check.
Nope, that is also anything but a pyramid scheme.
So many people were ill-informed about what a pyramid scheme is, I actually had to make a video about it.
I don't mind if people want to toss shade on a game, a person, a developer, but can you please at least make sure you are using the right insults?
A pyramid scheme has a major requirement: a buy in.
Every single person can use the referral program, even people who pay $0 and make $0 purchases.
I know people who can't afford to buy a pre-order back that have backers that have made perchases so they show pending cash to be paid after the game launches.
Now, if you want to say "There is no way they are ever going to pay that money out" Cool we can talk about that.
But calling something that isn't a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme, that's not cool.
Come on! Pyramid schemes and mlms are both get rich quick schemes. That cat has already been out of the bag a long time ago. Just because the "business model" and I use that term very loosely, changed slightly, doesn't make it any less of a scam. You still have to convince people to buy the product and you get 15% of the sales. There is a reason why you are promoting the game as hard as you are and it is not out of the goodness of your heart.
No more uncool than someone ignorantly calling Girl Scouts a MLM organization.
I was actually closer as many MLMs flip over into pyramid scheme territory eventually.
Your qualifiers are a bit specious at best.
As for throwing shade at a game, I'm just getting warmed up, 2019 should prove to be a good year for being a harbinger.
It is kinda sad that most of the hype for this game is fake hype. On top of that they still are charging people $500 for alpha access, to test a game, that has not even come out yet. The greed is strong with this one. You notice that the items they are selling in the packages, you only get to see the concept art. You don't get to see what the costume looks like in game on the characters. The rest of the items are missing too! They are charging people for stuff they haven't even made yet.
When questioned about it, we are given the ol' "trust me" line. Even though Steven hasn't given anyone a reason to do that.
2019 is indeed going to be a great year! We get a front row seat to this turd show.
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
He is a former mlm salesman. Monetize this bitch is the key phrase in both online games and mlm's.
Just remember, Girl Scouts of America are also MLM.
I did not know the girls had to pay hundreds of dollars to get in and build a down line to get rich.
That would be a pyramid scheme not MLM.
Oh, you mean more like ASHES referral program, check.
Nope, that is also anything but a pyramid scheme.
So many people were ill-informed about what a pyramid scheme is, I actually had to make a video about it.
I don't mind if people want to toss shade on a game, a person, a developer, but can you please at least make sure you are using the right insults?
A pyramid scheme has a major requirement: a buy in.
Every single person can use the referral program, even people who pay $0 and make $0 purchases.
I know people who can't afford to buy a pre-order back that have backers that have made perchases so they show pending cash to be paid after the game launches.
Now, if you want to say "There is no way they are ever going to pay that money out" Cool we can talk about that.
But calling something that isn't a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme, that's not cool.
Come on! Pyramid schemes and mlms are both get rich quick schemes. That cat has already been out of the bag a long time ago. Just because the "business model" and I use that term very loosely, changed slightly, doesn't make it any less of a scam. You still have to convince people to buy the product and you get 15% of the sales. There is a reason why you are promoting the game as hard as you are and it is not out of the goodness of your heart.
That is a fair point, and all I can say back to that is anyone who ventures over to my videos and my streams finds I give away the money I make via Twitch Raffles and gleam.io giveaways.
I'm not pulling in that Ninja level money so for me giving it all away doesn't take too many giveaways.
Assuming we get paid out by Ashes, I will give away that money too. Still not sure how I'm going to do that for monthly subs, but I'll figure out something.
Come on! Pyramid schemes and mlms are both get rich quick schemes. That cat has already been out of the bag a long time ago. Just because the "business model" and I use that term very loosely, changed slightly, doesn't make it any less of a scam. You still have to convince people to buy the product and you get 15% of the sales. There is a reason why you are promoting the game as hard as you are and it is not out of the goodness of your heart.
That is a fair point, and all I can say back to that is anyone who ventures over to my videos and my streams finds I give away the money I make via Twitch Raffles and gleam.io giveaways.
I'm not pulling in that Ninja level money so for me giving it all away doesn't take too many giveaways.
Assuming we get paid out by Ashes, I will give away that money too. Still not sure how I'm going to do that for monthly subs, but I'll figure out something.
If that is true, then I apologize for my comment. However, there are people not as generous as you and will take advantage of others.
Ashes is now a Battle Royale game that MIGHT someday be an MMORPG.
I want to argue with you, but there isn't even a strand of a loophole in your statement.
Well played.
I want to say you put you put a lot into this game, you really embraced it. With good reason it seemed unique in the beginning.
However I have seen undeniable flaws from the beginning. You can't have a builder game and PvP to fight against progress in the same game without it being Full PvP.
I actually think developers ran many scenario runs and realized, it had to be purely PvP. No way around it !
Ashes is now a Battle Royale game that MIGHT someday be an MMORPG.
I want to argue with you, but there isn't even a strand of a loophole in your statement.
Well played.
I want to say you put you put a lot into this game, you really embraced it. With good reason it seemed unique in the beginning.
However I have seen undeniable flaws from the beginning. You can't have a builder game and PvP to fight against progress in the same game without it being Full PvP.
I actually think developers ran many scenario runs and realized, it had to be purely PvP. No way around it !
its probably a pretty smart way to test PvP I would say
Because MMOs should be balanced around 1 vs 100 Battle Royale type combat...
BR lets them isolate skills to balance them outside of class kits in a 100 group setting. Castle sieges let them take those hopefully balanced skills and put them into 6 class kits to start to further balance them in a 200+ group setting. Once they balance for PvP, they add PvE mobs with the Horde Mode to adjust mob health pools and mechanics for PvP damage output and skill rotations. Each patch, ideally they tweak the skill in the kit, see the change and either roll it back, keep it the same, or push it harder. We get more skills, and more classes to balance as the MMO game develops. We have the MMO testing ground to test MMO game mechanics and systems for the next year while we have the BR to test a years worth of live class balancing for their promised 64 classes.
It's not hard to see the potential here for giving us a solid MMO launch so long as they actually use the BR for this reason. In some ways it will be brilliant if they can pull it off. My only concern is how they are going to take the Action combat data and balance it against the MMO's internal tab targeting data to create the final hybrid product. I kinda wish they would just keep the MMO pure action based but I'm probably in the minority.
its probably a pretty smart way to test PvP I would say
Because MMOs should be balanced around 1 vs 100 Battle Royale type combat...
BR lets them isolate skills to balance them outside of class kits in a 100 group setting. Castle sieges let them take those hopefully balanced skills and put them into 6 class kits to start to further balance them in a 200+ group setting. Once they balance for PvP, they add PvE mobs with the Horde Mode to adjust mob health pools and mechanics for PvP damage output and skill rotations. Each patch, ideally they tweak the skill in the kit, see the change and either roll it back, keep it the same, or push it harder. We get more skills, and more classes to balance as the MMO game develops. We have the MMO testing ground to test MMO game mechanics and systems for the next year while we have the BR to test a years worth of live class balancing for their promised 64 classes.
It's not hard to see the potential here for giving us a solid MMO launch so long as they actually use the BR for this reason. In some ways it will be brilliant if they can pull it off. My only concern is how they are going to take the Action combat data and balance it against the MMO's internal tab targeting data to create the final hybrid product. I kinda wish they would just keep the MMO pure action based but I'm probably in the minority.
Sure it does...
I have a bridge for sale. It's in a great location... right between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Interested?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I have a bridge for sale. It's in a great location... right between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Interested?
I mean you can just go read the patch notes if you're going to be an ass. They already are balancing the individual skills from the BR each test lol... They already released a full mechanic overview of the castle siege mode and based on recent trends will be providing patch notes for siege balancing changes as well. It's not rocket science to see that balancing their classes in this game mode benefits their classes in the long run and is one of their main focuses. Especially when it's listed as one of their god damn testing objective:
During this weekend’s test, we’ll be gathering data on the following:
Login registration flow
Download flow
Connection to matches
Performance of the servers
Combat balance And testing our Solo and Squad Battle Royale Game Modes
Source: https://ashesofcreation.com/blog/open-beta-weekend-for-ashes-of-creation-apocalypse
Dev's have said over and over again that this mode is to help them refine combat and server infrastructure. Burden of proof is on you guys to prove that the MMO game is no longer being developed, and that they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO and waste their time. Logically speaking, your argument that Intrepid would want to double their work load makes no sense.
Comments
If for some reason the BR of this becomes successful, why would they bother finishing the mmo? And if it doesn't, it'll have been a nice waste of resources that could have been used for the mmo.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/477991/ashes-of-creation-dec-6-livestream-recap-ashes-season-passes#latest
Let me know if any thing of interest....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My apologizes for the delay in answering you. We had a real world issue.
This is a great example of a person (Steven) having a vision and being part of a community (MMORPGs) and having been the leader of a gaming guild/community (The White Order) but being really out of touch with it.
Intrepid Studios has had 4 major fumbles in the past 8 months when it comes to how it interacts with its own community and the gaming community as a whole.
The Self-publish turning into my.com/mail.ru being the EU/CIS publisher
The staff number issue (2 different quotes/2 different staff sizes) they had last week
[And "52 staff in San Diego" but 36 staff photos on the web page. This looks suspect and this dog doesn't hunt]
The fact they seemed to jump on the BR train
The monetization of the Apocalypse (its a test mode...it won't be around...we are monetizing it)
A lot of this comes from the fact Steven is trying to wear too many hats at one time. He's trying to be the CEO of the Studio, he's trying to be the Creative Director/Game Designer of the MMORPG and now Apocalypse, he's trying to be the Community Manager.
Intrepid is also got too many pokers in the fire. They are trying to launch their BR mode on the 18th, they have a new studio to move into after the first of the year, they have to onboard 48 in-house employees in the San Diego Studio (a deadline they have missed and punted 6 months down the road).
Steven needs to realize (and I believe he is beginning to) that yes a hungry dog will bite you. His community isn't going to be infinitely patient with the bullshit.
The montezation of the BR mode came about from a series of
Its a testing mode...
It may not hang around after launch...
It will be there if the players like it...
It will be a player acquisition funnel...
MONETIZE THIS BITCH...
Dude, you had an add embers button in the launcher at about step 3.
I'm reminded of one of the many quotes that was drilled into my head during my years in the military:
"Gentlemen, the officer who doesn't know his communications and supply as well as his tactics is totally useless."
Right now Steven really needs to stop talking to the community. He needs to get the CM they have hired into the chair (she's still working at her other job) and let HER do the talking.
The New CM needs to be very careful, because its a room soaked in gasoline and if you make even one spark this is going to be exploded.
Today (13 December) we will be seeing a MMORPG livestream. That better be top shelf or its going to likewise be a dumpster fire.
Do I doubt they will release the MMORPG? No
Do I think they've already lost a significant number of potential players? Yes
Do I think they have stumbled into a minefield? Yes
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
Just remember, Girl Scouts of America are also MLM.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
That would be a pyramid scheme not MLM.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Nope, that is also anything but a pyramid scheme.
So many people were ill-informed about what a pyramid scheme is, I actually had to make a video about it.
I don't mind if people want to toss shade on a game, a person, a developer, but can you please at least make sure you are using the right insults?
A pyramid scheme has a major requirement: a buy in.
Every single person can use the referral program, even people who pay $0 and make $0 purchases.
I know people who can't afford to buy a pre-order back that have backers that have made perchases so they show pending cash to be paid after the game launches.
Now, if you want to say "There is no way they are ever going to pay that money out" Cool we can talk about that.
But calling something that isn't a pyramid scheme a pyramid scheme, that's not cool.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
I was actually closer as many MLMs flip over into pyramid scheme territory eventually.
Your qualifiers are a bit specious at best.
As for throwing shade at a game, I'm just getting warmed up, 2019 should prove to be a good year for being a harbinger.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That is a fair point, and all I can say back to that is anyone who ventures over to my videos and my streams finds I give away the money I make via Twitch Raffles and gleam.io giveaways.
I'm not pulling in that Ninja level money so for me giving it all away doesn't take too many giveaways.
Assuming we get paid out by Ashes, I will give away that money too. Still not sure how I'm going to do that for monthly subs, but I'll figure out something.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I want to argue with you, but there isn't even a strand of a loophole in your statement.
Well played.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
However I have seen undeniable flaws from the beginning. You can't have a builder game and PvP to fight against progress in the same game without it being Full PvP.
I actually think developers ran many scenario runs and realized, it had to be purely PvP.
No way around it !
Not sure with what you mean a builder game?
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's not hard to see the potential here for giving us a solid MMO launch so long as they actually use the BR for this reason. In some ways it will be brilliant if they can pull it off. My only concern is how they are going to take the Action combat data and balance it against the MMO's internal tab targeting data to create the final hybrid product. I kinda wish they would just keep the MMO pure action based but I'm probably in the minority.
I have a bridge for sale. It's in a great location... right between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Interested?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
During this weekend’s test, we’ll be gathering data on the following:
Login registration flow
Download flow Connection to matches
Performance of the servers
Combat balance
And testing our Solo and Squad Battle Royale Game Modes
Source: https://ashesofcreation.com/blog/open-beta-weekend-for-ashes-of-creation-apocalypse Dev's have said over and over again that this mode is to help them refine combat and server infrastructure. Burden of proof is on you guys to prove that the MMO game is no longer being developed, and that they plan to make a whole new combat system for the MMO and waste their time. Logically speaking, your argument that Intrepid would want to double their work load makes no sense.