During the stream when he announced apoc, he said that if he was doing it he wanted to make it a self-funding product so that it wouldn't take away funds from the MMORPG.
That sounds wonderful, until you examine it more closely...
Development of the BR game would be paid entirely by funds from the MMO dev budget !
Then the earnings from the BR game would (hopefully) be used to repay that "loan". So the BR game better make money...
Furthermore, "self-funding product" sounds a lot like something that will have a life of its own, with continued development, etc...
I Downloaded the game to try it and well, I was expecting an MMORPG not a battle royale-like game. If I want that, I already have Fortnite which looks like 100 times better.
Where is the persistent world, the resource gathering, quests, exploration...?
I Downloaded the game to try it and well, I was expecting an MMORPG not a battle royale-like game. If I want that, I already have Fortnite which looks like 100 times better.
Where is the persistent world, the resource gathering, quests, exploration...?
You just had to know what you were downloading, they even changed its name to Apocalypse to help people avoid confusion.
If not, you should probably visit some gaming web sites first before purchasing.
I'm thinking maybe it's not a total coincidence the time of your post is 4:20.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Jeff made it very clear that the tech was there for Ashes of Creation, so it wouldn't suffer the same fate that EQ Next did. There is no indication that a proof of concept would cause Ashes of Creation to fail and there is no way to prove that Landmark is what caused EQ Next to fail.
On to the ridiculous theory that Steven is looking for a quick money flip. This is the same guy that stated he would refund ALL kickstarter money if the MMORPG didn't release. That promise is still there. Doesn't sound very greedy, does it? Not only that but he put $30,000,000 of his own money into the project. Would he really want his own project to fail? Would he actually earn his money back on the BR? This is a guy that loves MMORPGs and has lived MMORPGs for a lot of his life. He started Ashes of Creation because he realized that he wanted his ideal MMORPG to become a reality and had the money to make it happen.
Why would a gamer, like us? Somebody that loves MMORPGs as much as we do? Somebody that actually gets to make their own that a lot of people only dream of? Why would that guy want his own MMORPG to fail for a bloody BR? Makes no sense. Not to mention he'd get to refund all of that kickstarter money out of his own pocket. That's a serious lose-lose.
One of the key qualifying aspects to even work at Intrepid Studios is being passionate for MMORPGs. Whenever they've hired a new person on, they've always talked about how they were passionate for MMORPGs and wanted Ashes of Creation to succeed. You guys make it sound like they are some corporate money making machine out of touch with the players. They aren't EA. They aren't Nexon. They are a company made of MMORPG players.
Regarding the promise to refund, what date did Steven set by which the MMORPG must launch, in order to not trigger refunds?
Obviously they set a date when the MMORPG needs to launch, for this promise to have any meaning (otherwise they could just say it's in development indefinitely without triggering Steven's promise) - I'm curious what date that is.
I admit, I haven't been closely following the game, I worry it is just going to be the same thing I am playing now (Archeage). I downloaded the beta/stress test thing and I was quiet confused as to wtf I was playing...as it sure wasn't a mmorpg. Did it out of boredom, as Gamigo is making Trion look like the most competent company in the world, with all the exploits they have running on Archeage now, and the deafening silence and inaction. I ran around, trying to find some monster to fight, path to leveling, getting new skills....I found nothing. Yeah, if I would of read the forums more, I guess I would of known...But I have never downloaded a mmorpg beta and not found a mmorpg to play. Very odd.
Yeah, if I would of read the forums more, I guess I would of known...But I have never downloaded a mmorpg beta and not found a mmorpg to play. Very odd.
To be fair I think their Forums have been down for over a month now...
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Once Pantheon releases, everything else is irrelevant.
Except Crowfall and CU which are built around PvP, and Star Citizen for people who want space stuff, and Ashes for people who want both PvE and PvP in the same game...
I Downloaded the game to try it and well, I was expecting an MMORPG not a battle royale-like game. If I want that, I already have Fortnite which looks like 100 times better.
Where is the persistent world, the resource gathering, quests, exploration...?
That would be in the Alpha 1 testing coming in Q2 - 2019.
But reading what everyone has said, yes it has been a marketing/PR nightmare with how they did this.
The last seven months or so have been one strike-out after another.
I want to pose the following argument. EQ Next didn't fail because of the testing methodology. Landmark didn't cause it to fail. Jeff mentioned that EQ Next more or less failed because the technology wasn't ready. I think you all remember Storybricks, right? Remember what the EQ Next AI was like? They didn't have any because Storybricks couldn't deliver. I think that EQ Next failed because of Storybricks, not Landmark. I think that H1Z1 and EQ Next failed for different reasons and both happened to use the same testing strategies.
Fortnite became a BR for a completely separate reason. That was not a proof of concept. They actually introduced another mode. That's not a valid comparison.
Jeff made it very clear that the tech was there for Ashes of Creation, so it wouldn't suffer the same fate that EQ Next did. There is no indication that a proof of concept would cause Ashes of Creation to fail and there is no way to prove that Landmark is what caused EQ Next to fail.
On to the ridiculous theory that Steven is looking for a quick money flip. This is the same guy that stated he would refund ALL kickstarter money if the MMORPG didn't release. That promise is still there. Doesn't sound very greedy, does it? Not only that but he put $30,000,000 of his own money into the project. Would he really want his own project to fail? Would he actually earn his money back on the BR? This is a guy that loves MMORPGs and has lived MMORPGs for a lot of his life. He started Ashes of Creation because he realized that he wanted his ideal MMORPG to become a reality and had the money to make it happen.
Why would a gamer, like us? Somebody that loves MMORPGs as much as we do? Somebody that actually gets to make their own that a lot of people only dream of? Why would that guy want his own MMORPG to fail for a bloody BR? Makes no sense. Not to mention he'd get to refund all of that kickstarter money out of his own pocket. That's a serious lose-lose.
One of the key qualifying aspects to even work at Intrepid Studios is being passionate for MMORPGs. Whenever they've hired a new person on, they've always talked about how they were passionate for MMORPGs and wanted Ashes of Creation to succeed. You guys make it sound like they are some corporate money making machine out of touch with the players. They aren't EA. They aren't Nexon. They are a company made of MMORPG players.
Umm nope .
It did not fail either,the business failed,smedley failed the business and that is why it all went down.I have no doubts that even if the game managed to get done,it would be a half assed effort but still do ok in the eyes of sales,my guess likely 1-2 million maybe a ceiling of 5 million.Point being,it would not have failed if they had the money to keep going.
Landmark was NEVER meant to be a game,that was a cash grab to try and fund EQNext,i thought that would be very obvious by now.SOE simply was broke,they could not afford to do anything.
As to this game,Ashes and the question,i just laugh because again it looks so obvious to me.This game idea was NOT selling at least not good enough in the developers eyes.It would create a VERY negative atmosphere if they simply came out and said "we give up"but we are going to try and salvage something by turning it into a BR game.If they make enough money then they can get back to developing a mmorpg and nobody would know the difference. this team simply tried to scramble for what in their eyes was the best chance for fast success to generate cash,so they say PUBG..Fortnite and said let's try that.
You do NOT TEST rpg combat in a BR setting,that is simply just dumb,so i have no doubts it was simply a BR test and NOTHING more.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
People are spreading their feelings.... Others are explaining it away.
I can sum it up with this: By testing BR and only testing the PvP half of the game is making people realize this game will be a PvP game..... People now realize the PvE will always be minor.
This is a blow to all the PvE only players. The ones that were going to try and squeeze some sort of PvE atmosphere.
The feeling of hope is now gone for them.
I'll explain the same thing differently: Ashes of Creation will be half PvP and half PvE. By displaying a BR, people now realize PvP will always dominate the game...... The PvE players that don't like PvP games now know this game is not for them.
Adding a few towns to protect is looking like an afterthought.... Giving the PvP meaning.
I don't like the changes made to their site, the absence of fora and the fact that my account appears to be missing my kickstarter pledge package information. Other than that, all is well..../facepalm
People are spreading their feelings.... Others are explaining it away.
I can sum it up with this: By testing BR and only testing the PvP half of the game is making people realize this game will be a PvP game..... People now realize the PvE will always be minor.
This is a blow to all the PvE only players. The ones that were going to try and squeeze some sort of PvE atmosphere.
The feeling of hope is now gone for them.
I'll explain the same thing differently: Ashes of Creation will be half PvP and half PvE. By displaying a BR, people now realize PvP will always dominate the game...... The PvE players that don't like PvP games now know this game is not for them.
Adding a few towns to protect is looking like an afterthought.... Giving the PvP meaning.
I mean wasn't PVP always the focus. I think on there kickstarter they talked about how PVP would be a major part of the game and the world resetting so people had to rebuild towns. The way I saw it always was 70% pvp and 30% PVE content. I think they even talked about having no safe areas as well.
Yes, But PvE players are desperate, many are so much so, their willing to compromise and squeeze some Player-Versus-Environment. With an in your face display of BR, they realize their is no hope.
Word on the street is they're creating a P2W mobile version of the game just to test the cash shop and credit card transactions. No worries, it's just a test though. Totally won't be a "thing".
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Word on the street is they're creating a P2W mobile version of the game just to test the cash shop and credit card transactions. No worries, it's just a test though. Totally won't be a "thing".
Makes sense, especially since we all have cell phones, right?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People are spreading their feelings.... Others are explaining it away.
I can sum it up with this: By testing BR and only testing the PvP half of the game is making people realize this game will be a PvP game..... People now realize the PvE will always be minor.
This is a blow to all the PvE only players. The ones that were going to try and squeeze some sort of PvE atmosphere.
The feeling of hope is now gone for them.
I'll explain the same thing differently: Ashes of Creation will be half PvP and half PvE. By displaying a BR, people now realize PvP will always dominate the game...... The PvE players that don't like PvP games now know this game is not for them.
Adding a few towns to protect is looking like an afterthought.... Giving the PvP meaning.
I think this does sum up the problem really well.
They are testing the "combat" in a very PvP flavored manner.
They are doing Battle Royale (PvP) then Castle Sieges (group PvP), and then Horde Mode (Group PvE).
In hindsight, they should have done BR (for all the things that it accomplished, it really was a worthwhile test), then Horde Mode (to introduce that PvE flavor) and then Castle Sieges (to refine that bulk PvP mechanics)
Or, should have just kept the testing inside the MMORPG.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I always thought it was you were supposed to be innocent until proven guilty .heaven forbid i ever end up in court with a jury from this site
In a court of law, perhaps, but in the court of public opinion, not so much.
Yea, the overly trusting mentality that leads people to think "innocent until proven guilty" applies outside of courts is a big part of how these kickstarter crowdfunded MMOs suckered so many people in the first place.
I always thought it was you were supposed to be innocent until proven guilty .heaven forbid i ever end up in court with a jury from this site
In a court of law, perhaps, but in the court of public opinion, not so much.
Yea, the overly trusting mentality that leads people to think "innocent until proven guilty" applies outside of courts is a big part of how these kickstarter crowdfunded MMOs suckered so many people in the first place.
I sort of agree with you on that.
I think that any game that goes to Kickstarter needs to be able to provide at the very least a playable demo.
As a side note, I wonder why it is that PvP is dominating so many of these new "MMORPGs" when it has been clear for years that most want PvE. I think Pantheon is going to win the battle of kickstarter MMORPGs if for no other reason than they seem to be the only game targeting the group that is "starving" for an MMORPG.
I wouldn't say most want PvE
And Pantheon cannot win the battle of kickstarted MMORPGs.
As a side note, I wonder why it is that PvP is dominating so many of these new "MMORPGs" when it has been clear for years that most want PvE. I think Pantheon is going to win the battle of kickstarter MMORPGs if for no other reason than they seem to be the only game targeting the group that is "starving" for an MMORPG.
I wouldn't say most want PvE
And Pantheon cannot win the battle of kickstarted MMORPGs.
Pantheon kickstarter failed because of Brad and what happened with VG. Nothing to do with the want or not for PVE.
At least you know what you get with Brad whereas Steven is a used car salesman
I'm all all down for the Bill of Rights, totally cool with Civil Liberties, and I 100% support the Freedom of Speech.
The problem is, I'm really against ignorance, and when people make statements like "Steven is a used care salesman" I get offended. Not, because you are making fun of the guy, make fun of him all the hell you want.
But, if you are calling him a Used Car Salesman, I really hope you are rolling with more than $30,000,000 in your bank account and living in more than a $10,000,000 home because otherwise it comes off as petty jealousy that you can't live that life.
Make fun of him if you feel the need to because his company runs like a clown car at present. Trash him because they fucked up their database migration and can't get it fixed in a timely manner. Laugh that their first game the BR is a total dumpster fire
But FFS, if you want to throw shade on someone make it relevant and you know, actually insulting.
Calling someone a used car salesman isn't even an insult anymore, i mean "oh no, someone has a job selling stuff to stupid people"
Might as well call them a Cell Phone Salesman, or a Internet Service Provider salesperson, or pretty much a sales person cause they all are shady as fuck.
Comments
Development of the BR game would be paid entirely by funds from the MMO dev budget !
Then the earnings from the BR game would (hopefully) be used to repay that "loan". So the BR game better make money...
Furthermore, "self-funding product" sounds a lot like something that will have a life of its own, with continued development, etc...
Where is the persistent world, the resource gathering, quests, exploration...?
You just had to know what you were downloading, they even changed its name to Apocalypse to help people avoid confusion.
If not, you should probably visit some gaming web sites first before purchasing.
I'm thinking maybe it's not a total coincidence the time of your post is 4:20.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Obviously they set a date when the MMORPG needs to launch, for this promise to have any meaning (otherwise they could just say it's in development indefinitely without triggering Steven's promise) - I'm curious what date that is.
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One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
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strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
That would be in the Alpha 1 testing coming in Q2 - 2019.
But reading what everyone has said, yes it has been a marketing/PR nightmare with how they did this.
The last seven months or so have been one strike-out after another.
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It did not fail either,the business failed,smedley failed the business and that is why it all went down.I have no doubts that even if the game managed to get done,it would be a half assed effort but still do ok in the eyes of sales,my guess likely 1-2 million maybe a ceiling of 5 million.Point being,it would not have failed if they had the money to keep going.
Landmark was NEVER meant to be a game,that was a cash grab to try and fund EQNext,i thought that would be very obvious by now.SOE simply was broke,they could not afford to do anything.
As to this game,Ashes and the question,i just laugh because again it looks so obvious to me.This game idea was NOT selling at least not good enough in the developers eyes.It would create a VERY negative atmosphere if they simply came out and said "we give up"but we are going to try and salvage something by turning it into a BR game.If they make enough money then they can get back to developing a mmorpg and nobody would know the difference.
this team simply tried to scramble for what in their eyes was the best chance for fast success to generate cash,so they say PUBG..Fortnite and said let's try that.
You do NOT TEST rpg combat in a BR setting,that is simply just dumb,so i have no doubts it was simply a BR test and NOTHING more.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I can sum it up with this:
By testing BR and only testing the PvP half of the game is making people realize this game will be a PvP game..... People now realize the PvE will always be minor.
This is a blow to all the PvE only players. The ones that were going to try and squeeze some sort of PvE atmosphere.
The feeling of hope is now gone for them.
I'll explain the same thing differently:
Ashes of Creation will be half PvP and half PvE. By displaying a BR, people now realize PvP will always dominate the game...... The PvE players that don't like PvP games now know this game is not for them.
Adding a few towns to protect is looking like an afterthought.... Giving the PvP meaning.
But PvE players are desperate, many are so much so, their willing to compromise and squeeze some Player-Versus-Environment. With an in your face display of BR, they realize their is no hope.
This is the root cause of frustration.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think this does sum up the problem really well.
They are testing the "combat" in a very PvP flavored manner.
They are doing Battle Royale (PvP) then Castle Sieges (group PvP), and then Horde Mode (Group PvE).
In hindsight, they should have done BR (for all the things that it accomplished, it really was a worthwhile test), then Horde Mode (to introduce that PvE flavor) and then Castle Sieges (to refine that bulk PvP mechanics)
Or, should have just kept the testing inside the MMORPG.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I sort of agree with you on that.
I think that any game that goes to Kickstarter needs to be able to provide at the very least a playable demo.
Between the Stars did it right (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1393754749/between-the-stars) . They had a playable demo before they ever went to kickstarter.
Other games I'm following are doing the same.
I think there is something wrong with people who keep jumping on kickstarters. That shifts the risk from the company to the public.
If a company thinks they can put together a good game, let them do a demo, and then ask for money to make it better.
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I wouldn't say most want PvE
And Pantheon cannot win the battle of kickstarted MMORPGs.
Pantheon's Kickstarter failed https://www.polygon.com/2014/2/22/5437134/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen-fails-to-meet-kickstarter-goal
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm all all down for the Bill of Rights, totally cool with Civil Liberties, and I 100% support the Freedom of Speech.
The problem is, I'm really against ignorance, and when people make statements like "Steven is a used care salesman" I get offended. Not, because you are making fun of the guy, make fun of him all the hell you want.
But, if you are calling him a Used Car Salesman, I really hope you are rolling with more than $30,000,000 in your bank account and living in more than a $10,000,000 home because otherwise it comes off as petty jealousy that you can't live that life.
Make fun of him if you feel the need to because his company runs like a clown car at present.
Trash him because they fucked up their database migration and can't get it fixed in a timely manner.
Laugh that their first game the BR is a total dumpster fire
But FFS, if you want to throw shade on someone make it relevant and you know, actually insulting.
Calling someone a used car salesman isn't even an insult anymore, i mean "oh no, someone has a job selling stuff to stupid people"
Might as well call them a Cell Phone Salesman, or a Internet Service Provider salesperson, or pretty much a sales person cause they all are shady as fuck.
Paradox Gaming Network
Paradox YouTube Channel
Ashes 101