A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
I didn't trivialize it. I have come to realize many things we see as future tech and robotics would because death and cancer lol.
I was just stating that if we did get to that point I doubt people would be getting brain surgery for games.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
Not only this, but neurons themselves are quite different from a computer. It's not a binary on/off switch but something alive, with receptors and chemical transmitters. If you are talking about consciousness then each molecule is likely important. Add that these are in turn affected by the environment and are chaotic (you will have the uncertainty principle playing a role) the monumental nature of the task becomes apparent.
We have yet to artificially create life, which behaves in all the ways biologists mean. Even something as simple as a cell. This would require much more than that.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
Not only this, but neurons themselves are quite different from a computer. It's not a binary on/off switch but something alive, with receptors and chemical transmitters. If you are talking about consciousness then each molecule is likely important. Add that these are in turn affected by the environment and are chaotic (you will have the uncertainty principle playing a role) the monumental nature of the task becomes apparent.
We have yet to artificially create life, which behaves in all the ways biologists mean. Even something as simple as a cell. This would require much more than that.
Proving at the end of the day, mankind is really nothing more than a bunch of clever tool using apes.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
Not only this, but neurons themselves are quite different from a computer. It's not a binary on/off switch but something alive, with receptors and chemical transmitters. If you are talking about consciousness then each molecule is likely important. Add that these are in turn affected by the environment and are chaotic (you will have the uncertainty principle playing a role) the monumental nature of the task becomes apparent.
We have yet to artificially create life, which behaves in all the ways biologists mean. Even something as simple as a cell. This would require much more than that.
Proving at the end of the day, mankind is really nothing more than a bunch of clever tool using apes.
Masters of the universe indeed....
always loved you kyleran here is.....HE-MAN!! REMEMBER, HUMANS ARE SMART!
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
Not only this, but neurons themselves are quite different from a computer. It's not a binary on/off switch but something alive, with receptors and chemical transmitters. If you are talking about consciousness then each molecule is likely important. Add that these are in turn affected by the environment and are chaotic (you will have the uncertainty principle playing a role) the monumental nature of the task becomes apparent.
We have yet to artificially create life, which behaves in all the ways biologists mean. Even something as simple as a cell. This would require much more than that.
Proving at the end of the day, mankind is really nothing more than a bunch of clever tool using apes.
Masters of the universe indeed....
Watch closely:
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What about the holodeck in Star Trek? No jacking in, just a huge room as a monitor with holographic images. A couple of barriers still would be 1) Movement: how could a person move through a world without bumping into a wall and 2) Interactivity: seeing and hearing is one thing , but people are going to want to feel the breeze, smell the air, touch the trees and the other people.
Movement might be solved with some kind if floating or treadmill type harness, with the monitor images and holograms doing most of the real movement as the person “floats”in the middle of the room.
Interactivity I can only see being accomplished with either some sort of body suit that could mimic the feeling of walking or touching something or some kind of clever use of air or moving tiles/walls, without having to actually be connected to brain receptors.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Wow .. people are still nostalgic about this virtual world crap?
This is 2019 .. isn't it? The two big trends (or upcoming releases) are either battle royal games, or loot shooters. Even games like Diablo 3 seems to be old fashion now (witness POE adding all the new ideas to prop up the ARPG genre).
This is now a world that Fortnite, warframe, PoE are doing better than 99% of the MMOs out there, may be except the good old dependable WoW (and even Wow cannot hold a candle to the engagement in Fortnite).
I was searching the internet and came across this IGN review of Everquest shortly after launch.
I actually missed it, paying little attention to online games until 2001 or so. Heck, I got most of my gaming news from paper magazines like CGW or PCGamer so probably was a delay of a year or so just to hear about it.
It's a fun read, and I recalled feeling the authors wide eyed wonder at being in this great 3D virtual world when I first played Dark Age of Camelot.
I also enjoyed this comment, especially as we still struggle with it today despite all of the technical advances.
"Since the first week things have gotten much better and even with all of the problems its still more playable than Ultima Online. This week, as in the beta, the game has rarely suffered from major lag issues now, even on a 28.8k modem"
It seems the promise and wonder is largely gone now, people just play games and no longer desire to inhabit virtual worlds.
You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online. Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel. At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.
That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .
If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all.
This year is year 3 for me in BDO
Much like FFXIV the housing is instanced. Would be nice for people to just walk by and see my place without looking through lists. Imo Archeage, while a very dead game still has the best housing system. Minus the lack of available land on populated servers.
Wow .. people are still nostalgic about this virtual world crap?
This is 2019 .. isn't it? The two big trends (or upcoming releases) are either battle royal games, or loot shooters. Even games like Diablo 3 seems to be old fashion now (witness POE adding all the new ideas to prop up the ARPG genre).
This is now a world that Fortnite, warframe, PoE are doing better than 99% of the MMOs out there, may be except the good old dependable WoW (and even Wow cannot hold a candle to the engagement in Fortnite).
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What about the holodeck in Star Trek? No jacking in, just a huge room as a monitor with holographic images. A couple of barriers still would be 1) Movement: how could a person move through a world without bumping into a wall and 2) Interactivity: seeing and hearing is one thing , but people are going to want to feel the breeze, smell the air, touch the trees and the other people.
Movement might be solved with some kind if floating or treadmill type harness, with the monitor images and holograms doing most of the real movement as the person “floats”in the middle of the room.
Interactivity I can only see being accomplished with either some sort of body suit that could mimic the feeling of walking or touching something or some kind of clever use of air or moving tiles/walls, without having to actually be connected to brain receptors.
This is already possible in a fixed space, or at least in the next ten to twenty years. Google "Holodeck VR"
I already play an Augmented Reality game in which certain landmarks or works of art are energy portals that have the capability to influence minds. This could easily go with something like Google Glass. A big problem is GPS would have to be far more accurate to render correctly. However, keep in mind Quest uses inside-out tracking to render a totally virtual world, possibly there could be some sort of "hand off" between the two.
Imagine playing a game of Assassins where you could actually see the weapons your assailant and target were carrying. These games would normally last weeks, mind you. Imagine it set in the 1920s.
Heck there could be a nerf-sword-only version set in Edo period Japan. Cars would appear as mythical beasts. The rules could be similar to "Highlander". Imagine getting asked why you carry a katana-shaped nerf sword, patting it and replying "there can be only one". The Quickening would happen once every year, or maybe once every ten years like Oberammergau.
Post edited by Phaserlight on
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Wow .. people are still nostalgic about this virtual world crap?
This is 2019 .. isn't it? The two big trends (or upcoming releases) are either battle royal games, or loot shooters. Even games like Diablo 3 seems to be old fashion now (witness POE adding all the new ideas to prop up the ARPG genre).
This is now a world that Fortnite, warframe, PoE are doing better than 99% of the MMOs out there, may be except the good old dependable WoW (and even Wow cannot hold a candle to the engagement in Fortnite).
Wow .. people are still nostalgic about this virtual world crap?
This is 2019 .. isn't it? The two big trends (or upcoming releases) are either battle royal games, or loot shooters. Even games like Diablo 3 seems to be old fashion now (witness POE adding all the new ideas to prop up the ARPG genre).
This is now a world that Fortnite, warframe, PoE are doing better than 99% of the MMOs out there, may be except the good old dependable WoW (and even Wow cannot hold a candle to the engagement in Fortnite).
You have no idea how "taste" works. We know this.
No need to rehash it for the 1000th time.
Nari might as well have a leader that says "It is new and played by a lot of people so it must be good".
In some ways virtual worlds have been replaced by virtual world tools, which is what social media is, a sort of digital interface with reality. One day though we will get our virtual worlds, just hang on for 30 years or so.
I was searching the internet and came across this IGN review of Everquest shortly after launch.
I actually missed it, paying little attention to online games until 2001 or so. Heck, I got most of my gaming news from paper magazines like CGW or PCGamer so probably was a delay of a year or so just to hear about it.
It's a fun read, and I recalled feeling the authors wide eyed wonder at being in this great 3D virtual world when I first played Dark Age of Camelot.
I also enjoyed this comment, especially as we still struggle with it today despite all of the technical advances.
"Since the first week things have gotten much better and even with all of the problems its still more playable than Ultima Online. This week, as in the beta, the game has rarely suffered from major lag issues now, even on a 28.8k modem"
It seems the promise and wonder is largely gone now, people just play games and no longer desire to inhabit virtual worlds.
I got this sometime in March and subbed March 22 1999. One of the things remember most is when entering Qeynos it was like watching a slideshow. It was running on a prebuilt computer I got at CompUSA in 1998. It was using a Voodoo 2 gfx card. When I think back to that time, I would NOT be happy playing a game with a similar framerate. BUT it was completely new and exhilarating. I ofcourse had long played Quake 2 multiplayer and many 3d games, so I wasn't unfamiliar with the idea of a game world or online world. What I was unfamiliar with was MASSIVE multiplayer. Compared to other games I'd played, it was immersive. I got so absorbed in it. I started on the PvP server Rallos Zek. It was chaos! Back then there were not many safeguards or time tested Play Nice rules. I think that's why. Ever since then, it's very hard for me to immerse in any game unless it's dangerous or easy to die. I can't pin down exactly when it started, but I can't play a game if it's too easy or casual. It has to have something to lose. Something to sweat over.
One of the things I remember fondly is when the servers went down lots of us would go into the login server chat lobby. There were thousands of players on there. It was a fun place to discuss the game and complain about the servers being down.
I don't think anything has really changed since then, and I don't care for much of the quality of life changes. Everquest was based on MUDs, but with a graphical 3d client. Every MMORPG is based on the same fundamentals, stemming as far back as approx 1980. MMORPG's serve a much larger population now, though. I think that's the main difference, and the reason for most of the changes since then. It's much easier to play them whilst AFKing more frequently, especially versus the everquest-era timeframe, and that's something I think is ok.
In 99' I seen the future of MMORPGs being more complex with ambiguous mechanics. Instead I got what could be best described as Clicking with Friends online.
What I imagined was more complex (intelligent; detailed; varied) NPC behavior, player houses (like ultima online--NO instances), ships and more. I imagined a hybrid of Ultima Online and Everquest with upgrades. That was very near what Ultima Online 2 wanted to do before it died.
In original Everquest, one of the things I loved were the wandering NPCs. One NPC wandered between the Erudin library and Qeynos hills. Another wandered from Highhold Pass to North Qeynos (I think). Many dozens of NPCs traveled from zone to zone. Many NPCs would travel inside a single zone and talk to many other NPCs, and in turn giving players ideas for keywords to start quests. This kind of NPC behaviour was very cool and I imagined it would be the future, but with more intelligent, detailed behavior.. But that's not what I saw. Instead NPCs downgraded and became like vending machines. Yes, many MMORPGs have wandering NPCs, but that's about all they do--remember, it's ALL about quality of life now, not fantasy or immersion.
Many MMORPGs have houses and ships and some intelligent NPC decisions, but in almost all cases it's severely downgraded, trapped inside instances, and safeguarded so no player ever has to suffer negative consequences. In other words: it's all fake.
Until compahnies and players stop looking at these things as games and demand WORLDS instead, we will just get more of the same crap.
EDIT: I just remember Raph Koster's article he wrote about this years ago, below.
Here’s where I editorialize a little bit. We’ve tended to, over time,
focus so much on the quest and kill aspect of these games that we’ve
reduced down other elements in favor of this. We no longer have NPCs
with schedules because it interferes with getting a quest promptly and
killing things faster. We no longer have NPCs that give directions
because a radar map is more convenient. We no longer have NPCs that
crack a joke when you say something because we’ve removed NPCs hearing
you altogether. We no longer have NPCs that take initiative because all
interactions must be through menus. We no longer have NPCs that fool
people into thinking they are maybe real because it’s confusing.
IT's sad MUDs 20 years old or more did MORE than modern MMORPGs. This is something I knew years ago because I used to play them. I'd log out of a MUD and play a modern MMORPG and feel like I was playing something downgraded.
In 99' I seen the future of MMORPGs being more complex with ambiguous mechanics. Instead I got what could be best described as Clicking with Friends online.
What I imagined was more complex (intelligent; detailed; varied) NPC behavior, player houses (like ultima online--NO instances), ships and more. I imagined a hybrid of Ultima Online and Everquest with upgrades. That was very near what Ultima Online 2 wanted to do before it died.
In original Everquest, one of the things I loved were the wandering NPCs. One NPC wandered between the Erudin library and Qeynos hills. Another wandered from Highhold Pass to North Qeynos (I think). Many dozens of NPCs traveled from zone to zone. Many NPCs would travel inside a single zone and talk to many other NPCs, and in turn giving players ideas for keywords to start quests. This kind of NPC behaviour was very cool and I imagined it would be the future, but with more intelligent, detailed behavior.. But that's not what I saw. Instead NPCs downgraded and became like vending machines. Yes, many MMORPGs have wandering NPCs, but that's about all they do--remember, it's ALL about quality of life now, not fantasy or immersion.
Many MMORPGs have houses and ships and some intelligent NPC decisions, but in almost all cases it's severely downgraded, trapped inside instances, and safeguarded so no player ever has to suffer negative consequences. In other words: it's all fake.
Until compahnies and players stop looking at these things as games and demand WORLDS instead, we will just get more of the same crap.
EDIT: I just remember Raph Koster's article he wrote about this years ago, below.
Here’s where I editorialize a little bit. We’ve tended to, over time,
focus so much on the quest and kill aspect of these games that we’ve
reduced down other elements in favor of this. We no longer have NPCs
with schedules because it interferes with getting a quest promptly and
killing things faster. We no longer have NPCs that give directions
because a radar map is more convenient. We no longer have NPCs that
crack a joke when you say something because we’ve removed NPCs hearing
you altogether. We no longer have NPCs that take initiative because all
interactions must be through menus. We no longer have NPCs that fool
people into thinking they are maybe real because it’s confusing.
IT's sad MUDs 20 years old or more did MORE than modern MMORPGs. This is something I knew years ago because I used to play them. I'd log out of a MUD and play a modern MMORPG and feel like I was playing something downgraded.
Like you I thought MMORPGs were going to evolve into ever more complex and interesting virtual worlds.
Instead they went in an opposite direction because the large majority of players just want to play a good "game" for a short period of time.
I can't even fathom how gamers can find BRs entertaining, yet clearly tens of millions do and are willing to spend billions on in game costumes which are cosmetic in purpose, mind boggling to think of really.
Is OK, I don't understand people watching game streamers.....or eating sushi, but they do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Heard at the finer zone boundaries in many old MMORPGS
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
In 99' I seen the future of MMORPGs being more complex with ambiguous mechanics. Instead I got what could be best described as Clicking with Friends online.
What I imagined was more complex (intelligent; detailed; varied) NPC behavior, player houses (like ultima online--NO instances), ships and more. I imagined a hybrid of Ultima Online and Everquest with upgrades. That was very near what Ultima Online 2 wanted to do before it died.
In original Everquest, one of the things I loved were the wandering NPCs. One NPC wandered between the Erudin library and Qeynos hills. Another wandered from Highhold Pass to North Qeynos (I think). Many dozens of NPCs traveled from zone to zone. Many NPCs would travel inside a single zone and talk to many other NPCs, and in turn giving players ideas for keywords to start quests. This kind of NPC behaviour was very cool and I imagined it would be the future, but with more intelligent, detailed behavior.. But that's not what I saw. Instead NPCs downgraded and became like vending machines. Yes, many MMORPGs have wandering NPCs, but that's about all they do--remember, it's ALL about quality of life now, not fantasy or immersion.
Many MMORPGs have houses and ships and some intelligent NPC decisions, but in almost all cases it's severely downgraded, trapped inside instances, and safeguarded so no player ever has to suffer negative consequences. In other words: it's all fake.
Until compahnies and players stop looking at these things as games and demand WORLDS instead, we will just get more of the same crap.
EDIT: I just remember Raph Koster's article he wrote about this years ago, below.
Here’s where I editorialize a little bit. We’ve tended to, over time,
focus so much on the quest and kill aspect of these games that we’ve
reduced down other elements in favor of this. We no longer have NPCs
with schedules because it interferes with getting a quest promptly and
killing things faster. We no longer have NPCs that give directions
because a radar map is more convenient. We no longer have NPCs that
crack a joke when you say something because we’ve removed NPCs hearing
you altogether. We no longer have NPCs that take initiative because all
interactions must be through menus. We no longer have NPCs that fool
people into thinking they are maybe real because it’s confusing.
IT's sad MUDs 20 years old or more did MORE than modern MMORPGs. This is something I knew years ago because I used to play them. I'd log out of a MUD and play a modern MMORPG and feel like I was playing something downgraded.
Yeah some of it is because of WoW changing the culture. Not to say WoW was bad but introduced copy cating in the genre moving forward. It radically changing the player base and the mindset of future developers who grew up playing those games. Of course the money people's idea of success changed and creative boundaries being pushed was replaced by the working formula.
I always expected UO to be what the future of the genre was going to be.
In 99' I seen the future of MMORPGs being more complex with ambiguous mechanics. Instead I got what could be best described as Clicking with Friends online.
What I imagined was more complex (intelligent; detailed; varied) NPC behavior, player houses (like ultima online--NO instances), ships and more. I imagined a hybrid of Ultima Online and Everquest with upgrades. That was very near what Ultima Online 2 wanted to do before it died.
In original Everquest, one of the things I loved were the wandering NPCs. One NPC wandered between the Erudin library and Qeynos hills. Another wandered from Highhold Pass to North Qeynos (I think). Many dozens of NPCs traveled from zone to zone. Many NPCs would travel inside a single zone and talk to many other NPCs, and in turn giving players ideas for keywords to start quests. This kind of NPC behaviour was very cool and I imagined it would be the future, but with more intelligent, detailed behavior.. But that's not what I saw. Instead NPCs downgraded and became like vending machines. Yes, many MMORPGs have wandering NPCs, but that's about all they do--remember, it's ALL about quality of life now, not fantasy or immersion.
Many MMORPGs have houses and ships and some intelligent NPC decisions, but in almost all cases it's severely downgraded, trapped inside instances, and safeguarded so no player ever has to suffer negative consequences. In other words: it's all fake.
Until compahnies and players stop looking at these things as games and demand WORLDS instead, we will just get more of the same crap.
EDIT: I just remember Raph Koster's article he wrote about this years ago, below.
Here’s where I editorialize a little bit. We’ve tended to, over time,
focus so much on the quest and kill aspect of these games that we’ve
reduced down other elements in favor of this. We no longer have NPCs
with schedules because it interferes with getting a quest promptly and
killing things faster. We no longer have NPCs that give directions
because a radar map is more convenient. We no longer have NPCs that
crack a joke when you say something because we’ve removed NPCs hearing
you altogether. We no longer have NPCs that take initiative because all
interactions must be through menus. We no longer have NPCs that fool
people into thinking they are maybe real because it’s confusing.
IT's sad MUDs 20 years old or more did MORE than modern MMORPGs. This is something I knew years ago because I used to play them. I'd log out of a MUD and play a modern MMORPG and feel like I was playing something downgraded.
Like you I thought MMORPGs were going to evolve into ever more complex and interesting virtual worlds.
Instead they went in an opposite direction because the large majority of players just want to play a good "game" for a short period of time.
I can't even fathom how gamers can find BRs entertaining, yet clearly tens of millions do and are willing to spend billions on in game costumes which are cosmetic in purpose, mind boggling to think of really.
Is OK, I don't understand people watching game streamers.....or eating sushi, but they do.
Just like many people cannot understand how you can have 6 accounts on EVE all enhancing your mass mining operation. . . . Just messing with you.
Sushi is fantastic, i suggest the Philadelphia roll for starters. Cream cheese and raw salmon and rice.
Game streamers is interesting, some people watch the top players to get better, other people like the personalities (me), other people like to see gameplay (me), some people like to see the top competition like a sport.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
In 99' I seen the future of MMORPGs being more complex with ambiguous mechanics. Instead I got what could be best described as Clicking with Friends online.
What I imagined was more complex (intelligent; detailed; varied) NPC behavior, player houses (like ultima online--NO instances), ships and more. I imagined a hybrid of Ultima Online and Everquest with upgrades. That was very near what Ultima Online 2 wanted to do before it died.
In original Everquest, one of the things I loved were the wandering NPCs. One NPC wandered between the Erudin library and Qeynos hills. Another wandered from Highhold Pass to North Qeynos (I think). Many dozens of NPCs traveled from zone to zone. Many NPCs would travel inside a single zone and talk to many other NPCs, and in turn giving players ideas for keywords to start quests. This kind of NPC behaviour was very cool and I imagined it would be the future, but with more intelligent, detailed behavior.. But that's not what I saw. Instead NPCs downgraded and became like vending machines. Yes, many MMORPGs have wandering NPCs, but that's about all they do--remember, it's ALL about quality of life now, not fantasy or immersion.
Many MMORPGs have houses and ships and some intelligent NPC decisions, but in almost all cases it's severely downgraded, trapped inside instances, and safeguarded so no player ever has to suffer negative consequences. In other words: it's all fake.
Until compahnies and players stop looking at these things as games and demand WORLDS instead, we will just get more of the same crap.
EDIT: I just remember Raph Koster's article he wrote about this years ago, below.
Here’s where I editorialize a little bit. We’ve tended to, over time,
focus so much on the quest and kill aspect of these games that we’ve
reduced down other elements in favor of this. We no longer have NPCs
with schedules because it interferes with getting a quest promptly and
killing things faster. We no longer have NPCs that give directions
because a radar map is more convenient. We no longer have NPCs that
crack a joke when you say something because we’ve removed NPCs hearing
you altogether. We no longer have NPCs that take initiative because all
interactions must be through menus. We no longer have NPCs that fool
people into thinking they are maybe real because it’s confusing.
IT's sad MUDs 20 years old or more did MORE than modern MMORPGs. This is something I knew years ago because I used to play them. I'd log out of a MUD and play a modern MMORPG and feel like I was playing something downgraded.
Like you I thought MMORPGs were going to evolve into ever more complex and interesting virtual worlds.
Instead they went in an opposite direction because the large majority of players just want to play a good "game" for a short period of time.
I can't even fathom how gamers can find BRs entertaining, yet clearly tens of millions do and are willing to spend billions on in game costumes which are cosmetic in purpose, mind boggling to think of really.
Is OK, I don't understand people watching game streamers.....or eating sushi, but they do.
Just like many people cannot understand how you can have 6 accounts on EVE all enhancing your mass mining operation. . . . Just messing with you.
Sushi is fantastic, i suggest the Philadelphia roll for starters. Cream cheese and raw salmon and rice.
Game streamers is interesting, some people watch the top players to get better, other people like the personalities (me), other people like to see gameplay (me), some people like to see the top competition like a sport.
Some people (me) just like to play games.
Is OK, never understood watching others do things, I don't watch sports, people building tiny houses, cook food or play poker either.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sushi is fantastic, i suggest the Philadelphia roll for starters. Cream cheese and raw salmon and rice.
Sushi really can be fantastic - if you want to avoid raw things, california rolls have cooked crab. Tamago anything is basically a slice of omelette. Some places make sushi with the type of pre-cooked tuna from a can (as well as the more traditional raw stuff). Some places make vegetarian sushi with pickle, avocado, or tofu. If you find sushi too dry due to all that white rice, try it with soy sauce or a piece of kimchi. If you like spicy things, mildly spicy sushi rolls and highly spicy wasabi are both common to find.
As far as streamers, I like to watch a group such as Yogscast do stuff like blow each other up with rockets in GTA V maps. If you have never seen a windmill race, they are a riot. Also watching people play gary's mod prop hunt can be hilarious.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I remember hopping into Neocron in the beta days. It was the first MMO game I'd ever encountered and I was amazed. Being able to play with more than the handful of players you would encounter in a game like Doom or Quake was mind-bending. What was this alien technology that could make this happen?! Coupled with the music, sound and setting itself, it really did a fine job at transporting me elsewhere.
Hoping to get a similar feeling when Cyberpunk 2077 eventually comes along.
G'day! Aussie guy that records videos of his gameplay. I stream gameplay too.
Comments
I was just stating that if we did get to that point I doubt people would be getting brain surgery for games.
We have yet to artificially create life, which behaves in all the ways biologists mean. Even something as simple as a cell. This would require much more than that.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Masters of the universe indeed....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
here is.....HE-MAN!!
REMEMBER, HUMANS ARE SMART!
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Do not go into the light
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Movement might be solved with some kind if floating or treadmill type harness, with the monitor images and holograms doing most of the real movement as the person “floats”in the middle of the room.
Interactivity I can only see being accomplished with either some sort of body suit that could mimic the feeling of walking or touching something or some kind of clever use of air or moving tiles/walls, without having to actually be connected to brain receptors.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
This is 2019 .. isn't it? The two big trends (or upcoming releases) are either battle royal games, or loot shooters. Even games like Diablo 3 seems to be old fashion now (witness POE adding all the new ideas to prop up the ARPG genre).
This is now a world that Fortnite, warframe, PoE are doing better than 99% of the MMOs out there, may be except the good old dependable WoW (and even Wow cannot hold a candle to the engagement in Fortnite).
Getting too old for this $&17!
Back to DAOC freeshard for me....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well anyway, I was looking for this:
http://theconversation.com/star-treks-holodeck-from-science-fiction-to-a-new-reality-74839
I already play an Augmented Reality game in which certain landmarks or works of art are energy portals that have the capability to influence minds. This could easily go with something like Google Glass. A big problem is GPS would have to be far more accurate to render correctly. However, keep in mind Quest uses inside-out tracking to render a totally virtual world, possibly there could be some sort of "hand off" between the two.
Imagine playing a game of Assassins where you could actually see the weapons your assailant and target were carrying. These games would normally last weeks, mind you. Imagine it set in the 1920s.
Heck there could be a nerf-sword-only version set in Edo period Japan. Cars would appear as mythical beasts. The rules could be similar to "Highlander". Imagine getting asked why you carry a katana-shaped nerf sword, patting it and replying "there can be only one". The Quickening would happen once every year, or maybe once every ten years like Oberammergau.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
No need to rehash it for the 1000th time.
In some ways virtual worlds have been replaced by virtual world tools, which is what social media is, a sort of digital interface with reality. One day though we will get our virtual worlds, just hang on for 30 years or so.
Instead they went in an opposite direction because the large majority of players just want to play a good "game" for a short period of time.
I can't even fathom how gamers can find BRs entertaining, yet clearly tens of millions do and are willing to spend billions on in game costumes which are cosmetic in purpose, mind boggling to think of really.
Is OK, I don't understand people watching game streamers.....or eating sushi, but they do.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MAGA
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I always expected UO to be what the future of the genre was going to be.
Sushi is fantastic, i suggest the Philadelphia roll for starters. Cream cheese and raw salmon and rice.
Game streamers is interesting, some people watch the top players to get better, other people like the personalities (me), other people like to see gameplay (me), some people like to see the top competition like a sport.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Is OK, never understood watching others do things, I don't watch sports, people building tiny houses, cook food or play poker either.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As far as streamers, I like to watch a group such as Yogscast do stuff like blow each other up with rockets in GTA V maps. If you have never seen a windmill race, they are a riot. Also watching people play gary's mod prop hunt can be hilarious.
Hoping to get a similar feeling when Cyberpunk 2077 eventually comes along.
Youtube: http://youtube.com/c/gameoliodan
Twitch: http://twitch.tv/gameoliodan