Will EQ2 Flop like AC2?

KailPOT · January 2004

Ok, as someone who played Asherons Call, which may have been by far the greatest MMORPG of the 90's, I was really psyched about AC2. I waited, watched, and looked forward to it until the month it was released. I waited until it was running so as to not play it at it's worst, and then, after it had been out a month, I bought it. After starting the game up however I found myself dissapointed and insulted, how could this even have the same title.

What I'm getting at is despite the hype and how good the still shots look, and despite the promises being made, EQ2 could be a flop when it hits shelves. I'm not saying it will be, just that it could be. Of course the same could be sait for anygame yet to be released

All gods look alike to me, why should your's be any different?

air_head1 · January 2004

Maybe its just me but is EQ2 really making much of a leap into the future sure it has better graphics maybe some new races new places to explore and more of a challenge(i haven't really researched EQ2 that much so i could be wrong i probably should of done some research b4 writing this) but is it really going to provide something new to the MMORPG community?

ianubisi · January 2004

Best to wait until at least open beta before beginning to predict the future of a MMOG. For that matter, best to wait until 6 months after release to really give a good judgement.

But hype is a huge killer. Take a look at what happened to SWG...it was supposed to be the end-all-be-all MMOG release, and there were legitimate reasons for people to believe that. But, and I have never played it, apparently it isn't quite what people hoped it would be.

I think it's very important to guard yourself against your own expectations with new MMOG release. Every single one of them has *always* promised more than they've delivered. The difficulties of programming such an entity, combined with all the logistical issues involved, mean that reality will trim away the wish-list. Often times the released product is missing one or two of those really key features that you were attracted to in the title.

EQ2 might fare ok in terms of the hype meter. SWG really knocked back the reputation of VI/SOE. The one that I expect is being hyped too much is WoW. So many people believe Blizzard can do no wrong. Maybe they can't, but MMOG ain't exactly the same thing as making a good RTS or hack-and-slash RPG. We'll have to see.

cedori · January 2004

I'm just curious as to why people even start threads like this. I mean the game isn't even out, how could one even begin to ask such a question in all reality. None could really answer this type of question until beta or release of any game.

Regal_TR · January 2004

I think SoE won't screwup this time because EQ2 is an upgraded version of EQ, not a shallow different gamestyle jump that AC2 took from AC...The people up there arent stupid, they see what fails and what works, casual gamer friendly games DONT work, the timesinks and loot camping are what make an MMORPG fruitful..and thats what EQ2 will probably go for..

CAPS LOCK IS LIKE CRUISE CONTROL FOR THE COOL

Serien · January 2004

no i think u guys are thinking that because of how swg turned out

swg turned out the way it did (sucky) becuase luca arts helped make it...if it was soe on itself, the game would have been much better

definetly, eqii will not flop

Regal_TR · January 2004

Murt, you have too much faith in the new SoE, they screwed up EQ also..

Clever_Glove · January 2004

This is a interesting experiment, since VI is cannibalizing there own audience. If every EQ player switched to EQ2, VI doesn't make any more money.

I have a theory that EQ2 is a ploy to get you to you upgrade to the sony all access pass. Why have 400K people paying 12 bucks a month with you can have 400K paying 40?

-=-=-=-=-
"elimination of any downtime and you don't have a chance to really talk. The result is no one gives a crap who you are. It's so incredibly anti-community building." - Brad McQuid (sigil games, maker of EQ)

A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50%

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Koltrane · January 2004

Originally posted by cedori

I'm just curious as to why people even start threads like this. I mean the game isn't even out, how could one even begin to ask such a question in all reality. None could really answer this type of question until beta or release of any game.

The reason people start threads like this is to spur discussion and to see what people are thinking. Of course we're not going to get a definite answer, but it's fun and interesting to hear what others are thinking. I don't understand why people get bent out of shape when others posit a what if kind of question. I'm not trying to chastise you, just trying to explain that I enjoy hearing the opinions of those who are likely going to be the players of these future games.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. (written on the SW:G CD)

A: 73% E: 73% S: 40% K: 13%

Koltrane · January 2004

Originally posted by Clever_Glove

This is a interesting experiment, since VI is cannibalizing there own audience. If every EQ player switched to EQ2, VI doesn't make any more money.
I have a theory that EQ2 is a ploy to get you to you upgrade to the sony all access pass. Why have 400K people paying 12 bucks a month with you can have 400K paying 40?

I think SOE has no real choice. Whether they offer an upgraded EQ now or in 2 years, the fact is they will have to do it or die. EQ won't die tomorrow or even next year, but it will eventually succumb to age and competition. The question SOE is addressing is do we lose those EQ players to the competition or do we keep them here?

I agree about them trying to get people to upgrade to the pass. I wonder how long it will be before SW:G is part of it.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. (written on the SW:G CD)

A: 73% E: 73% S: 40% K: 13%

ianubisi · January 2004

Originally posted by Koltrane

I agree about them trying to get people to upgrade to the pass. I wonder how long it will be before SW:G is part of it.

When SW:G membership begins to wane, you can count on it being included at that time.

bum37 · January 2004

It won't be anything like that, since there isn't M$ messing up the game, the morons from M$ affected alot of how AC2 became.

ianubisi · January 2004

Originally posted by bum37
It won't be anything like that, since there isn't M$ messing up the game, the morons from M$ affected alot of how AC2 became.

And your evidence of this is...

Billius8 · January 2004

EQ2 will be a megahit is my guess. In fact, I expect several MMORPG's to go under shortly after the release of EQ2, because many subscribers only play their current games while waiting for EQ2 or WoW, etc.

ianubisi · January 2004

Originally posted by Billius8
EQ2 will be a megahit is my guess. In fact, I expect several MMORPG's to go under shortly after the release of EQ2, because many subscribers only play their current games while waiting for EQ2 or WoW, etc.

Same thing was said of UO when EQ was released.

Same thing was said of EQ when AC/AO were released.

Same thing was said of all those games when DAoC was released.

Same thing was said (again) of all the above when SW:G was released.

Hasn't happened yet. Don't think it will happen. We're about 5-15 million users away from a saturation point in this market.

Rleab · January 2004

Originally posted by bum37
It won't be anything like that, since there isn't M$ messing up the game, the morons from M$ affected alot of how AC2 became.

Ok thats it time to straighten things out a bit...How many people keep complaining on and on about how all the MMO games out there are clones?How many bash AC2?....think about it AC2 is different than any other MMO, it went where others didn't but it failed...so I congratulate MS for at least trying to change how MMO's are done/played.

EDIT:Also please tell me who is behind AC1?

---------
Who said games rotted the mind?

Billius8 · January 2004

Originally posted by ianubisi

Originally posted by Billius8
EQ2 will be a megahit is my guess. In fact, I expect several MMORPG's to go under shortly after the release of EQ2, because many subscribers only play their current games while waiting for EQ2 or WoW, etc.

Same thing was said of UO when EQ was released.

Same thing was said of EQ when AC/AO were released.

Same thing was said of all those games when DAoC was released.

Same thing was said (again) of all the above when SW:G was released.

Hasn't happened yet. Don't think it will happen. We're about 5-15 million users away from a saturation point in this market.

You might be right about the saturation market being much bigger, but also consider this: EQ2 is truly the next generation of these games. Folks talk about their games being next generation, but as another poster once commented, "they're really just more THIS generation."

My prediction still holds that EQ2 (or WoW) will slam the heck out of subscriber bases of all these other MMORPG's. I just can't see someone continue to play their 65th level character in a shrinking server base while their friends flock to EQ2. This ain't DAOC or SWG we're talking about, it's EQ2. (Whoa!)

But, we'll just have to wait and see. If I'm right, I expect you to buy me an ale in a Freeport tavern.

bum37 · January 2004

Ok, obviously, you haven't played AC1, or if you did, only for a short time and didn't like it. AC2 shouldn't be a sequel to AC1, it's nothing like it. M$ couldn't even get the story right. They just have a broad background story to how it happened.

The people behind AC is turbine and no M$.

the people making AC2 was turbine with M$ overseeing the whole thing and sending their own people to work on it with turbine. If you read the interviews, dev chats, etc you'd know M$ had a big part of making AC2 what it is.

I don't wanna go through how much I hate M$ again, goto some AC clan(that's been there from start) site and post a question of how M$ messed up AC2.

Rleab · January 2004

Originally posted by bum37

Ok, obviously, you haven't played AC1, or if you did, only for a short time and didn't like it. AC2 shouldn't be a sequel to AC1, it's nothing like it. M$ couldn't even get the story right. They just have a broad background story to how it happened.
The people behind AC is turbine and no M$.
the people making AC2 was turbine with M$ overseeing the whole thing and sending their own people to work on it with turbine. If you read the interviews, dev chats, etc you'd know M$ had a big part of making AC2 what it is.
I don't wanna go through how much I hate M$ again, goto some AC clan(that's been there from start) site and post a question of how M$ messed up AC2.

One thing more, goto AC1 site and look near left hand bottom...what do you see...yes thats right microsoft has copyrights...

Now not saying that i like MS but i say they should stick to windows games arent their thing...they have had more failures than success (if i remember correctly)

---------
Who said games rotted the mind?

Finwe · January 2004

I think both EQ2 and WoW are a bunch of hype, but will have the same old crap. EQ2 doesnt sound anything like next generation, just the same old crap with good graphics. WoW, well, everyone expects WoW to do great, because crap, its blizzard, they're great. Truth is, they're no longer an indy company, and most of the masterminds are gone.

And the minds behind EQ, well, they're time is up, they made EQ, made it big because it was the next gen game of its time, and that's it, everything else is pretty much a dud. SWG sucks, planetside aint doing so well. They pretty much touch anything and it turns to crap.

mastah · January 2004

EQ2 will probably be awesome

(SOE is giving me doubts since SWG

). EQ was, so why not the sequel

AC1 was WOW

, but AC2 wuz crap compared 2 it

. We'll just have to wait

. But everyone has 2 have 1 thing str8: SOE SUCKS!

higgsboson · January 2004

Originally posted by Finwe

Truth is, they're no longer an indy company, and most of the masterminds are gone.

Yeah pretty much...

To name few, Erich Schaefer, Max Schaefer, David Brevik, Bill Roper, Patrick Wyatt, Mike O'Brien and Jeff Strain.

These guys were the key members of Blizzard's past franchise games including current WoW, now they all left to either create their own studio/company or join other company. Vivendi gonna ruin Blizzard (they already did with Blizzard North) just like EA ruined Origin (Richard Brother's legacy) as did Interplay with BlackIsles, etc....

Bill Roper, Patrick Wyatt, Richard Garriott, etc.. all these guys are winners. They've always been. They don't like nothing less than winning even if their name starts to fade into oblivion.

So it is understandable that they want to create games that will be praised, hailed as masterpieces that will stand the test of time. They don't wanna hang around with losers (note losers come from all forms and shapes), the non-visionary bureaucrat types, they gotta express their creativity and not mingled with short sighted concern of current state of business, etc.

Koltrane · January 2004

The definition of flop is a bit hairy. If you are looking strictly from a money standpoint (sales, subsdcriptions, etc), the it's hard to qualify SW:G as such. However, I think one really needs to wait a year after the release to bestow success or failure status on a MMOG, given that the life of an MMOG is targeted to be several years.

If you are looking at expectation vs delivery, SW:G can be considered a flop in that it delivered very little of what it promised or what was expected, and those things it did deliver were, in many cases, poorly implemented (e.g player crafting, mining). Of course, MMOGs can start out as flops and evolve into great games. Just look at AO. The problem with SW:G is that SOE doesn't think anything needs to be changed other than minor tweaks. Yeah, they added player mounts, but SW:G needs a lot more than that. Now that Jedi have been realized and everyone wants to be a Jedi, the game is full of PGers who are doing nothing other than working the tree to become a Jedi. How many people are shooting for Master Hairstylist, really?

AC2 may have a happy community, but by all reports it is a tiny community of high level players. New players are not coming into AC2 in any significant numbers. The servers have been consolidated down to four and two of those are literally unused. It's easy to want to pin all of AC2's failings on the big, bad boogeyman of Microsoft, but that seems to be a highly simplistic view of the situation. I'm wondering specifically what Microsoft made Turbine do or not do that turned AC2 into the underwhelming experience it is today. I'd like to hear more than, "M$ suxx0r, d3wd!"

Regardless, I think anyone, even those playing and loving AC2, would be hard pressed to call it a success.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. (written on the SW:G CD)

A: 73% E: 73% S: 40% K: 13%

bum37 · January 2004

Originally posted by Rleab

Originally posted by bum37

Ok, obviously, you haven't played AC1, or if you did, only for a short time and didn't like it. AC2 shouldn't be a sequel to AC1, it's nothing like it. M$ couldn't even get the story right. They just have a broad background story to how it happened.
The people behind AC is turbine and no M$.
the people making AC2 was turbine with M$ overseeing the whole thing and sending their own people to work on it with turbine. If you read the interviews, dev chats, etc you'd know M$ had a big part of making AC2 what it is.
I don't wanna go through how much I hate M$ again, goto some AC clan(that's been there from start) site and post a question of how M$ messed up AC2.

One thing more, goto AC1 site and look near left hand bottom...what do you see...yes thats right microsoft has copyrights...

Now not saying that i like MS but i say they should stick to windows games arent their thing...they have had more failures than success (if i remember correctly)

---------
Who said games rotted the mind?

yes, it has it, but turbine first made AC, then went under M$, so turbine did make the game, where when they started making AC2, turbine was under M$ when AC2 was made by both turbine AND M$ with M$ with the copyrights.

It doesn't matter how much you like M$, they screwed up AC2, ask any AC1 fans, who's played long enough to know the real facts. (When I post stuff, I know what I'm talking about, if not, I say IMO, "I think blah blah blah", or reference where I got the info)

higgsboson · January 2004

lol M$

webBear1000 · January 2004

NO

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