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People were just not ready for D&D Online.

axeptaxept Member Posts: 105
in Dungeons & Dragons Online
I think the main reason ppl "hate" it is because every mmo player has grown accustomed to all the other mmo games they whine about and say want something better and different. And when something different does pop up, then they complain and want what all the other mmo games had. There is not this and that...my god how ironic is that??

I have read that alot of ppl complain about the "forced grouping". Personaly I find it to be a good thing. You get to know ppl, and you actually get a group faster then any other mmo out there today.
The system they have buildt around had eliminated spam/yelling in the chat window. It is a lot more "clean" game then most.
D&D was all about grouping and playing with friends around a table. Hence the reason of "forcing" the groups.

The LFG system is by far the best I have seen. They took the Everquest 2 LFG search system and boosted it up alot.
Its great to see what class they are looking for. Have green marks to the ones u fix in etc etc. Its all good stuff.

The game has great class differeances. You actually have "jobs" as that class. Not just the healer is needed anymore. Its great and fun. Altho Warforges are worthless.

I had alot of fun grouping with ppl, and the majority of them are very mature. But getting to max lvl in a little over 3 weeks was pretty sad. And nothing changes in the game. Its the same thing over and over.

But at the end of the day its still a dieing game. Sadly. Personaly I got claustrophobic. Not able to run around and adventure killed it for me.
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Comments

  • Jd1680aJd1680a Member Posts: 398

    yeah another thing people arent ready for is its all instanced.  you and your group could be in a zone as five other groups are doing at the same time.  you dont have to deal with another group killing monsters or the name you need, you got your own monsters and quests items just you and your quest.

    ive played eq2 for a year and remember very well how we had to wait for hours, i mean close to three hours just for a single name to continue a quest.  if you had another group waiting for that same mob you are SOL.  there were quests you could do on eq2, and sometimes a dozen or so people could be on the same quests as you.  so if they were to get a name or some monsters you need to finish the quest then it will take you longer to get it.

    turbine think tanks had to come up a way for people to enjoy the quests they want for peoples to enjoy without being interrupted by others.  so the only solution is the way EQ2 is doing, CoH/CoV and guild wars.  they make the zones instance so  you dont have to wait or commit with the same mobs, name mobs, quest items, or commit in the same story line as someone else.

    Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online

  • gevrikgevrik Member Posts: 97
    You are kidding, right, CaptainRPG?

    Who is the narrow minded person here?

    This is so ironic, I don't even know what to say anymore.

    It's quite obvious you are trying to bash everyone who says anything good about the game, by resorting to personal bashing, which is NOT the right way to have a discussion with people.

    Of course, it's the only way for someone who doesn't have his own opinion, and is narrow minded himself.

    I think the OP had some very valid points, and wrote out what I am thinking. So he is not alone with his opinion, just like you are not alone with yours. Which ones are better articulated and thought out, I will leave that for the readers to find out by themselves.


  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    Originally posted by axept
    I think the main reason ppl "hate" it is because every mmo player has grown accustomed to all the other mmo games they whine about and say want something better and different. And when something different does pop up, then they complain and want what all the other mmo games had. There is not this and that...my god how ironic is that??
    1. Most people don't "hate" it.  They feel it isn't worth a monthly fee.  Nobody really HATES The game they just feel that for $15 a month it is NOT worth the price.  Because it doesn't offer anything more than other games do in a similar manner that is free of charge.
    2. What exactly does DDO do that's different than any other MMORPG?
      1. Most modern MMO's offer instanced adventures as part of the game.
      2. All modern MMO's have group adventures.
      3. All modern MMO's have varyious classes
      4. Most modern MMO's have diverse races.
      5. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of crafting.
      6. All *other* modern MMO's have a world to explore.
      7. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of story to follow.
    3. So tell me why it is you can't grasp that people don't feel that DDO is worth a monthly fee?  Everything it does is already done in other MMORPG's.  Granted there are slight differences but being 'different' and offering less content, features and options is NOT going to endear people to a game. 

    In summary:  What DDO does it does well.  The problem is that it offers LESS to people than they can already get free.  And it offers much less than it's competition in the same price range.  THAT is why people don't like DDO.  We warned Turbine of this during Beta.  They chose to ignore the warnings and now we are being proved right.  It has nothing with not being "ready" for DDO.  Personally if they'd add a world to explore, crafting, possibly player housing and a few other minor features I'd probably play it.  But as is?  Not for a fee.  no way.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • gevrikgevrik Member Posts: 97

    Originally posted by Elnator

    Originally posted by axept
    I think the main reason ppl "hate" it is because every mmo player has grown accustomed to all the other mmo games they whine about and say want something better and different. And when something different does pop up, then they complain and want what all the other mmo games had. There is not this and that...my god how ironic is that??
    1. Most people don't "hate" it.  They feel it isn't worth a monthly fee.  Nobody really HATES The game they just feel that for $15 a month it is NOT worth the price.  Because it doesn't offer anything more than other games do in a similar manner that is free of charge.
    Thanks for having some arguments for your opinion, refreshing to see that there are not just bandwagon hopping haters on here, but people who put up some arguments for their opinion.

    I think 15$ is not much, it's not even 0.5% of my monthly income, so I don't really mind paying that fee. I can understand the position of teenagers whose monthly allowance might take a hit through those 15$ tho.

    Which brings me to another point why having to pay those 15$ is good... It reduces the amount of snotty kids on the game. Not saying all teenagers are snotty, bratty kids, but oh well, log into GW or D2 and take a look at what I am getting at...
    1. What exactly does DDO do that's different than any other MMORPG?
      1. Most modern MMO's offer instanced adventures as part of the game.

        True, but none of them had it in a way like DDO, where the traps and riddles force you to be careful, instead of rushing through. GW has some nice hard missions, but they are hard because of the sheer amount of mobs being thrown at you, and the fact that most kids just rush ahead and then wonder why they get wiped out in the middle of the mission.

      2. All modern MMO's have group adventures.

        But most say that you can solo your way through the game, which is not what pen and paper rolepaying was about. In DDO you have to find a good party, with a good mix of classes.

      3. All modern MMO's have varyious classes

        But not many of them are so close to the D&D ruleset.

      4. Most modern MMO's have diverse races.

        True, just like DDO, most do have a monthly fee, tho. GW doesn't, and it doesn't have many races, in fact, you can only play humans there. :)

      5. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of crafting.

        I have never crafted in my Pen and Paper D&D days, you found the best items during campaigns. I'm not really into the whole crafting thing, takes to much time off adventuring.

      6. All *other* modern MMO's have a world to explore.

        I don't have much time to play, so when I play, I want a good adventure. I don't need a world to explore. Especially not a bleak world with nothing but spawned monsters in it. But yeah, I can see how some people might miss that.

      7. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of story to follow.

        Good point, there is no coherent plot in DDO, just the single shot missions, would be cool if there was a major storyline and plot.

    2. So tell me why it is you can't grasp that people don't feel that DDO is worth a monthly fee?  Everything it does is already done in other MMORPG's.  Granted there are slight differences but being 'different' and offering less content, features and options is NOT going to endear people to a game.

      But none of the existing games are so close to the D&D ruleset or have a n official D&D setting. For me that's enough to warrant the 15$ a month. It's really not that much, I spend more in one night out in the town, or going to the cinema to see a movie one time.

    In summary:  What DDO does it does well.  The problem is that it offers LESS to people than they can already get free.  And it offers much less than it's competition in the same price range.

    It offers enough for the 15$ for me. It's not full of bratty kids, it doesn't attract the pvp crowd. It offers voicechat without having to use 3rd party applications. A mature community of people that were attracted to it by the PnP background. There are good content updates every 2-3 months, which add a lot of new missions and locations. Enough to keep me, as a casual gamer, busy for weeks until the next content update. If you are a fast gamer, you can still cancel your subscription until the next content update comes along.

      THAT is why people don't like DDO.  We warned Turbine of this during Beta.  They chose to ignore the warnings and now we are being proved right.

    Where is that proof you talk of? The same proof like in all other games where players leave and cancel their subscriptions. It happens all the time, in all the P2P MMORPGs, doesn't mean anyone was proven right. There are still enough players, in case of the European servers there are new people joining every day, many more than those that are leaving. For everyone who doesn't like it, there might be two who actually do like it, they just don't go to a forum to post about it, because, well, they'd rather play...

      It has nothing with not being "ready" for DDO.  Personally if they'd add a world to explore, crafting, possibly player housing and a few other minor features I'd probably play it.  But as is?  Not for a fee.  no way.

    Those wouldn't be a reason for me to go, but those wouldn't also be a reason for me to stay, I like it the way it is, many other players do, especially the older pen and paper crowd of players.

    Bottom line is, there are people who like it and people who don't like it, same for every other game. You have to make up your own mind about it, that's what a free trial is for.




  • Ian_HawkmoonIan_Hawkmoon Member Posts: 365

    Originally posted by gevrik

    Originally posted by Elnator

    Originally posted by axept
    I think the main reason ppl "hate" it is because every mmo player has grown accustomed to all the other mmo games they whine about and say want something better and different. And when something different does pop up, then they complain and want what all the other mmo games had. There is not this and that...my god how ironic is that??
    1. Most people don't "hate" it.  They feel it isn't worth a monthly fee.  Nobody really HATES The game they just feel that for $15 a month it is NOT worth the price.  Because it doesn't offer anything more than other games do in a similar manner that is free of charge.
    Thanks for having some arguments for your opinion, refreshing to see that there are not just bandwagon hopping haters on here, but people who put up some arguments for their opinion.

    I think 15$ is not much, it's not even 0.5% of my monthly income, so I don't really mind paying that fee. I can understand the position of teenagers whose monthly allowance might take a hit through those 15$ tho.

    Which brings me to another point why having to pay those 15$ is good... It reduces the amount of snotty kids on the game. (1) Not saying all teenagers are snotty, bratty kids, but oh well, log into GW or D2 and take a look at what I am getting at...
    1. What exactly does DDO do that's different than any other MMORPG?
      1. Most modern MMO's offer instanced adventures as part of the game.

        True, but none of them had it in a way like DDO, where the traps and riddles force you to be careful, instead of rushing through. GW has some nice hard missions, but they are hard because of the sheer amount of mobs being thrown at you, and the fact that most kids just rush ahead (2) and then wonder why they get wiped out in the middle of the mission.

      2. All modern MMO's have group adventures.

        But most say that you can solo your way through the game, which is not what pen and paper rolepaying was about. (3) In DDO you have to find a good party, with a good mix of classes.

      3. All modern MMO's have varyious classes

        But not many of them are so close to the D&D ruleset.

      4. Most modern MMO's have diverse races.

        True, just like DDO, most do have a monthly fee, tho. GW doesn't, and it doesn't have many races, in fact, you can only play humans there. :)

      5. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of crafting.

        I have never crafted in my Pen and Paper D&D days, you found the best items during campaigns. I'm not really into the whole crafting thing, takes to much time off adventuring.

      6. All *other* modern MMO's have a world to explore.

        I don't have much time to play, so when I play, I want a good adventure. I don't need a world to explore. Especially not a bleak world with nothing but spawned monsters in it. But yeah, I can see how some people might miss that.

      7. All *other* modern MMO's have some form of story to follow.

        Good point, there is no coherent plot in DDO, just the single shot missions, would be cool if there was a major storyline and plot.

    2. So tell me why it is you can't grasp that people don't feel that DDO is worth a monthly fee?  Everything it does is already done in other MMORPG's.  Granted there are slight differences but being 'different' and offering less content, features and options is NOT going to endear people to a game.

      But none of the existing games are so close to the D&D ruleset or have a n official D&D setting. For me that's enough to warrant the 15$ a month. It's really not that much, I spend more in one night out in the town, or going to the cinema to see a movie one time.

    In summary:  What DDO does it does well.  The problem is that it offers LESS to people than they can already get free.  And it offers much less than it's competition in the same price range.

    It offers enough for the 15$ for me. It's not full of bratty kids, it doesn't attract the pvp crowd. It offers voicechat without having to use 3rd party applications. A mature community of people that were attracted to it by the PnP background. (4) There are good content updates every 2-3 months, which add a lot of new missions and locations. Enough to keep me, as a casual gamer, busy for weeks until the next content update. If you are a fast gamer, you can still cancel your subscription until the next content update comes along.

      THAT is why people don't like DDO.  We warned Turbine of this during Beta.  They chose to ignore the warnings and now we are being proved right.

    Where is that proof you talk of? The same proof like in all other games where players leave and cancel their subscriptions. It happens all the time, in all the P2P MMORPGs, doesn't mean anyone was proven right. There are still enough players, in case of the European servers there are new people joining every day, (5) many more than those that are leaving. For everyone who doesn't like it, there might be two who actually do like it, they just don't go to a forum to post about it, because, well, they'd rather play...

      It has nothing with not being "ready" for DDO.  Personally if they'd add a world to explore, crafting, possibly player housing and a few other minor features I'd probably play it.  But as is?  Not for a fee.  no way.

    Those wouldn't be a reason for me to go, but those wouldn't also be a reason for me to stay, I like it the way it is, many other players do, especially the older pen and paper crowd of players. (6)

    Bottom line is, there are people who like it and people who don't like it, same for every other game. You have to make up your own mind about it, that's what a free trial is for.



    Gervik, you always seem to be asking others for proof of what they are stating.  And yet you do not provide any of your own proof...  Instead of copying each one down, just look above for the numbers And please provide proof, of which you want others to provide, for your statements 1,2,3,4,5,6...  Or are they just your opinion, and not actually facts?


  • gevrikgevrik Member Posts: 97
    1. My guild is proof for that. Out of the 30+ players in it, there are two members who are under the age of 20. And those two are the sons of an old pen and paper fox who is 40. :) So basically there is the 9 year old and 14 year old sons of the 40 year old, and the rest if over 20, with most going towards their 30s... our oldest member is 68 by the way. :)

    2. Log into GW, go to Hell's Precipice and get into a PUG. Out of 20 groups you will have one that doesn't rush through the mission, and always gets wiped at the sparks or some other hard spot during the mission. :)

    3. I am not talking about Ian Livingstone solo adventure books here, I am talking about getting together with a group of friends on the weekend and playing with them through an adventure _together_. I've never played a Pen and Paper game with less than 3 people, at the very least, most of the time it was 5-6 people. :) Take a look at the adventure books for D&D, most of them are designed for at least 4 people.

    4. My guild again, most of the members don't even know about any other MMOPRGs, they were attracted to DDO by its name... :)

    5. See my reply to this in the other thread I just posted on earlier. Full taverns and 10+ lowbie groups going at peak times instead of the 2-3 when I started playing are a good indication of new players joining daily. :)

    6. See answers 1 and 4. :)

    These are my experiences, not facts, merely well observed opinions... I am just trying to lower myself to the avergage MMORPG.COM hateboy on here, but I can't do it so bluntly... :)

    Point is, there are no facts, just opinions, and if they can pose their opinions as facts, then I can do the same, right? Trying to do the reversed psychology thing with me isn't going to change the fact, that there are no facts on here, just opinions! Both the hateboys and mine, just wanted to make that clear. :)


  • JypsyJypsy Member Posts: 60
    gevrik, I have had very similar experiences in DDO, and thats what appeals to me, the playerbase seems older than most other games, no pvp, coupled with the forced grouping really pushes away the younger crowd that just wants to rush their way through things so they can pwn another player later on.

    The instances really took a while to grow on me, though they really take the fun of exploration away that EQ1 had.  I miss running across country to go to qeynos from freeport, and barely avoiding attacks the whole way. The instances do, however, let the group focus on the adventure rather than the travel to get to it.

    The game is far from perfect, and as I have said before, I understand how people might not enjoy it, but the thrill is there for me. The community is fantastic and the vast majority of people I have run PUGs with tend to be on the ball and quite dedicated to their class. Granted, you will always get the immature jerks in any game, but the good players far outweigh the bad here.

    just another of my two cents


    ~Jypsy, Grand Phoob of the universe.

  • CaptainRPGCaptainRPG Member Posts: 794

    Originally posted by gevrik
    1. My guild is proof for that.

    Again, why do people think the world revolves around them. Sorry guild that doesn't prove jack. I mean we can equally say that Crash86 group is proof that DDO is failing apart since most of them left.

    Out of the 30+ players in it, there are two members who are under the age of 20. And those two are the sons of an old pen and paper fox who is 40. :) So basically there is the 9 year old and 14 year old sons of the 40 year old, and the rest if over 20, with most going towards their 30s... our oldest member is 68 by the way. :)

    Who gives a day of the age people are playing. I've seen people 30 years of age act incredibly stupid in MMORPGs.

    2. Log into GW, go to Hell's Precipice and get into a PUG. Out of 20 groups you will have one that doesn't rush through the mission, and always gets wiped at the sparks or some other hard spot during the mission. :)

    3. I am not talking about Ian Livingstone solo adventure books here, I am talking about getting together with a group of friends on the weekend and playing with them through an adventure _together_. I've never played a Pen and Paper game with less than 3 people, at the very least, most of the time it was 5-6 people. :) Take a look at the adventure books for D&D, most of them are designed for at least 4 people.

    4. My guild again, most of the members don't even know about any other MMOPRGs, they were attracted to DDO by its name... :)

    5. See my reply to this in the other thread I just posted on earlier. Full taverns and 10+ lowbie groups going at peak times instead of the 2-3 when I started playing are a good indication of new players joining daily. :)

    6. See answers 1 and 4. :)

    These are my experiences, not facts, merely well observed opinions...

    LOL!!! You are so egotistic it isn't even funny. Okay, I can do this too. From my well observation (And I've been on three servers by the way.) People don't aren't playing this game much. I've play this game in the morning, afternoon and night not that many people are on except in the afternoon. I've been in server groups and guilds found that members were always scatter, doing their own quests. Something that's rare in games like WoW where immature is said to be high.

  • CoHsucksCoHsucks Member Posts: 197
    It will be interesting Gevrik to see if you have the balls to post here after this game dies. New players joining all the time, lol! I guess you just will never get it.

    I'll be interested to see if Turbine will keep the servers running for you and your alleged guild once everyone else who isn't a sucker has left the game in disgust. Wonder what your monthy fees will be to keep the game running? I have no doubt you will sell a kidney to give the money to Turbine to keep the servers going.

  • CaptainRPGCaptainRPG Member Posts: 794

    Originally posted by CoHsucks
    It will be interesting Gevrik to see if you have the balls to post here after this game dies. New players joining all the time, lol! I guess you just will never get it.

    I'll be interested to see if Turbine will keep the servers running for you and your alleged guild once everyone else who isn't a sucker has left the game in disgust. Wonder what your monthy fees will be to keep the game running? I have no doubt you will sell a kidney to give the money to Turbine to keep the servers going.


    You know how much it cost to keep RYL: Path of the Emperor running? $9.95 or $10 dollars for montly fees. The game itself cost %29.95 or $30 dollars. You won't even have to wait for DDO to close down, I want to see if gevrik post when DDO drops to 29.95 as well. I mean the proof of this gaming doing bad is the fact the game has already dropped to 39.95, which is far cry from it's 49.95.

    WoW still $50 dollars and requires $15 dollars month even after nearly 2 years. DDO dropped in it's price within a month.
  • NafunieruNafunieru Member UncommonPosts: 152

    I got this game a little less than a month ago, despite the negative comments I had read about it on here. The one thing I noticed as soon as I got in, was the older audience this game caters to and it's a good thing. You really don't see much nonsense being typed on the general chat and everyone I've grouped with have been mature and helpful.

    The main thing that started pulling me away from the game, was the repetition of the big quests, and the zerging through the instances. The majority of times that I'd log in and searched for a group, I'd get recruited into one running the big quests which I'd have to sit through for hours to finish. In the beginning the quests were fun, but after running them 5 times with your group zerging through the instance it gets old.

    While I love the combat system in the game, the interactive quests, the look/feel of the dungeons, at times I just really want to relax and run some quick quests and then leave. That is where I feel that the monthly fee isn't really worth it, if you either find yourself a guild and go with their questing schedule, or run pugs all the time and go through the same quests dozens of times.

  • wjrasmussenwjrasmussen Member Posts: 1,493

    Originally posted by CoHsucks
    It will be interesting Gevrik to see if you have the balls to post here after this game dies. New players joining all the time, lol! I guess you just will never get it.

    I'll be interested to see if Turbine will keep the servers running for you and your alleged guild once everyone else who isn't a sucker has left the game in disgust. Wonder what your monthy fees will be to keep the game running? I have no doubt you will sell a kidney to give the money to Turbine to keep the servers going.


    I have no doubt he will continue to do so.  I remember his arrival on the ddo forums.  He is not a bad person and I think he is trying his best to make his points even if he does rub people the wrong way. 

    What I liked about DDO back when it was announced wasn't the sameness to every other mmorpg, but the different things they wanted to do with the game. That and being dnd. :)  My concern for the long haul of mmorpgs is that they are not taking risks, following formulas and not experimenting enough.  In the long run, how many of the same games can the consumers support? 

  • CoHsucksCoHsucks Member Posts: 197
    Not to mention "suggesting" new players start on the empty servers. The constant complaints of being hard to find a group. The constant complaints of people's guild members quitting. The constant "quitting" posts. The obvious fear and desperation of the fanboys in this and the official forums trying to deny the problems.

    The fanboys would be denying the iceberg on the Titanic.

    It boggles the mind to say people weren't "ready" for DDO. I suppose, no, I wasn't ready to be ripped off for my $50, and expected to keep paying to be offered an inferior product.

    I wasn't "ready" for a game that offers maybe 10% of what other games offer. I guess I wasn't ready for a dev team who refuses to fix bugs, add badly needed content, or address some of the most glaring flaws, eg. Bard songs not audible.




  • CaptainRPGCaptainRPG Member Posts: 794

    Originally posted by wjrasmussen

    I have no doubt he will continue to do so.  I remember his arrival on the ddo forums.  He is not a bad person and I think he is trying his best to make his points even if he does rub people the wrong way.

    No, he's a "Cartman," he thinks his opinion matters and he thinks by labeling you, your opinion will have less value. Moreover, when gevrik argued he ducks post that have proof behind them. Then he stops arguing all together because he hates being pressured.
  • wjrasmussenwjrasmussen Member Posts: 1,493

    Originally posted by CaptainRPG

    Originally posted by wjrasmussen

    I have no doubt he will continue to do so.  I remember his arrival on the ddo forums.  He is not a bad person and I think he is trying his best to make his points even if he does rub people the wrong way.

    No, he's a "Cartman," he thinks his opinion matters and he thinks by labeling you, your opinion will have less value. Moreover, when gevrik argued he ducks post that have proof behind them. Then he stops arguing all together because he hates being pressured.
    Really you are agreeing with me as I think that is his best.
  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384

    Just a little thing for you guys to think on:

    If someone doesn't like a game or have an opinion, it does not give you the right to resort to namecalling and finger pointing. And vice versa

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • xIMPxxIMPx Member Posts: 191

    So can I have your account CoHsucks?


  • CoHsucksCoHsucks Member Posts: 197

    Originally posted by xIMPx

    So can I have your account CoHsucks?



    I couldn't be that mean to anyone

    Just play the trial if you are that much of a sadist.
  • the_travelerthe_traveler Member Posts: 76
    I find myself oddly middle of the road on this game.  I have a lot of fun on Mondays and Tuesdays because those are the days my friends and I get together and dungeon crawl.  However, the other nights every once in a while I get on and play and often find a mature, fun group to adventure with, but I don't have a "drive" to play. 
  • the_travelerthe_traveler Member Posts: 76

    Deleted double post

  • naldricnaldric Member UncommonPosts: 909

    Originally posted by gevrik
    1. My guild is proof for that. Out of the 30+ players in it, there are two members who are under the age of 20. And those two are the sons of an old pen and paper fox who is 40. :) So basically there is the 9 year old and 14 year old sons of the 40 year old, and the rest if over 20, with most going towards their 30s... our oldest member is 68 by the way. :)

    2. Log into GW, go to Hell's Precipice and get into a PUG. Out of 20 groups you will have one that doesn't rush through the mission, and always gets wiped at the sparks or some other hard spot during the mission. :)

    3. I am not talking about Ian Livingstone solo adventure books here, I am talking about getting together with a group of friends on the weekend and playing with them through an adventure _together_. I've never played a Pen and Paper game with less than 3 people, at the very least, most of the time it was 5-6 people. :) Take a look at the adventure books for D&D, most of them are designed for at least 4 people.

    4. My guild again, most of the members don't even know about any other MMOPRGs, they were attracted to DDO by its name... :)

    5. See my reply to this in the other thread I just posted on earlier. Full taverns and 10+ lowbie groups going at peak times instead of the 2-3 when I started playing are a good indication of new players joining daily. :)

    6. See answers 1 and 4. :)

    These are my experiences, not facts, merely well observed opinions... I am just trying to lower myself to the avergage MMORPG.COM hateboy on here, but I can't do it so bluntly... :)

    Point is, there are no facts, just opinions, and if they can pose their opinions as facts, then I can do the same, right? Trying to do the reversed psychology thing with me isn't going to change the fact, that there are no facts on here, just opinions! Both the hateboys and mine, just wanted to make that clear. :)

    I will be using the GW no fee example a lot to mark my point of view to show everybody still not convinced that DDO isnt worth the 15e monthly fee.


    Why do ppl have to compare their guilds against the whole community of another game, like in point 1. he says that his guild in DDO have 2 persons below 20 yo, what is the point of even saying that, taking his logic i could say "the GW comunity is very mature since my guild dont allow players under 20 yo", the argument doesnt make sense to me....

    2. i can go to Hell's Precipice with my guild mates and do it without one player dying, again there is no point in this argument... again he compares his guild mates against random pickup teams, DDo got the same problem as any other game, random pickup teams means almost certainly death.

    3. so is he saying that single playing and group playing isnt possible in the same game? again, no point in this argument.

    4. well this one is really the worst of all the statment, it means that, since it's a product from a known licence it's normal for u to pay 15e per month to play it even if it offers less? or is it just using its fame to scam ppl, well it isnt really a scam to take money from ppl who dont know anything about other games, is it?

    5. about that i will just say, wait till the end of their free month....

    6. idem.

    This is also my opinion, doesnt mean u cant have fun in DDO, u just need to be informed about other games that offer not so different (better!?) gameplays for free. And i dont like GW that much, it's just that DDO after the "free" (not so free since u paid for the game) month seems pointless to me.

    and sorry about the bad/horrible english but it isnt my primary or secondary language.

  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077

    Gavrik

    1. I *am* a pen and paper player
    2. I'm glad you feel that the game is worth your $15
    3. You ask me to back it up with facts.  Ok here's a *fact*
      I know about 20 people at work who play MMOs.  Often we all pick a game to play together.  Several of us play AD&D (oddly enough, none of us are in the same campaign though we do know each other well).  All of us decided to try DDO when the free trial came out.  None of us lasted the full 7 days.  We all wound up cancelling feeling "It's not a 'finished' game" or "it's nice but doesn't offer enough to me to be worth the monthly fee"
    4. As to your arguements about the fee only being a concern to "kids":  Every single one of us is making in excess of $50,000.00 a year.  I myself am in the 6 didgit range.  So your demographic is wrong there as well.  Most people that make a significant income, especially adults, are a bit more discerning than younger folks with how we spend our money.  For me $15 isn't even an hour of "work" in my workday (actually it's about 15 minutes :)).  It has nothing to do with whether we can afford it or not.  It's weather we feel the $15 is well spent.  All of us were of the opinion that NWN gives us the same (actually more since we can make our own modules) functionality without paying a monthly fee.  So none of us subscribed.

    Before you start to quibble with that.  Several of us play GuildWars.  Several are playing EVE, several play EQ2 and a couple play various other MMO's so yes, several of us are both AD&D pnp players as well as MMORPG players and the rest are just MMORPG players.   We are also all in the 25-45 age range that Turbine claimed was the 'target audience'.

    So my facts is simple:  Out of a sample size of 20 players 0% thought DDO was worth the current fee.  Some say if it were $9 a month it'd be worth it.  Some said $6 a month.  I and a few others feel it should be free to play in it's current state.

    Edit:  on this very website I posted a poll to see how many people feel DDO is worth it's current monthly fee:  90% said no.  Then I posted a separate poll asking "If DDO made some changes to the game would you consider subscribing"  60% said yes after one change or another from lowering the fee to removing it to adding a world to explore to many other things. 

    So 90% of a relatively random sampling of MMO players on this site and 100% of a rather targetted sampling at my workplace feel DDO isn't worth the monthly fee.  Note:  All the respondants to both polls HAVE tried it.  Most state that it's a decent game but isn't worth the monthly fee.  So it's not people who "hate" it either.

    Get it through your head:  DDO is charging too much for what it offers for *most* people.  If it weren't it would have a LOT more players. 

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • BladinBladin Member UncommonPosts: 1,089
    I'm not gonna make a large post since i just did in other post.

    But I'll simply say that i'm under the exact opposite opinion.

    It wasn't that people weren't ready.  It was that DDO wasn't ready to be released to the people... a good 10 levels and a good 400 quest too early.


    image

  • Ian_HawkmoonIan_Hawkmoon Member Posts: 365


    Originally posted by gevrik
    1. My guild is proof for that. Out of the 30+ players in it, there are two members who are under the age of 20. And those two are the sons of an old pen and paper fox who is 40. :) So basically there is the 9 year old and 14 year old sons of the 40 year old, and the rest if over 20, with most going towards their 30s... our oldest member is 68 by the way. :)

    Come on Gervik... A guild of 30+ players representing 30,000+ ???  I just cannot go along with that...  For all you know, your guild may be the odd guild.

    2. Log into GW, go to Hell's Precipice and get into a PUG. Out of 20 groups you will have one that doesn't rush through the mission, and always gets wiped at the sparks or some other hard spot during the mission. :)

    My point is and still is this...  How do you know that these are "kids"?  You are making asumptions here that are just not right...  If anything you should be talking about maturity, and not age.  I know a lot of very imature 30+ people, and a lot of very mature "kids"

    3. I am not talking about Ian Livingstone solo adventure books here, I am talking about getting together with a group of friends on the weekend and playing with them through an adventure _together_. I've never played a Pen and Paper game with less than 3 people, at the very least, most of the time it was 5-6 people. :) Take a look at the adventure books for D&D, most of them are designed for at least 4 people.

    4. My guild again, most of the members don't even know about any other MMOPRGs, they were attracted to DDO by its name... :)

    Again a very small portion of the DDO community, and not neccessarily representative of it.

    5. See my reply to this in the other thread I just posted on earlier. Full taverns and 10+ lowbie groups going at peak times instead of the 2-3 when I started playing are a good indication of new players joining daily. :)

    But this does not mean that people are joining every day...  As I stated before, it could very easily be people already subscribed to DDO and just creating another character.  You see posts here and on DDO.com about people having several characters...  A lot because they have reached level 10 and need to start another character.  And how many are on their 7 day free trial or thier free month?  No way to really tell.

    6. See answers 1 and 4. :) 


    What I was after is how do you know that the older PnP crowd like DDO the way it is?  You don't...  No one really even know how many older PnP players DDO has.

    These are my experiences, not facts, merely well observed opinions... I am just trying to lower myself to the avergage MMORPG.COM hateboy on here, but I can't do it so bluntly... :)

    Point is, there are no facts, just opinions, and if they can pose their opinions as facts, then I can do the same, right? Trying to do the reversed psychology thing with me isn't going to change the fact, that there are no facts on here, just opinions! Both the hateboys and mine, just wanted to make that clear. :)
    First off, Yes you can offer your opinions as facts...  If you want to be just like those you call "hateboys".  I have no problem with you stating your opinion here...  I would just like for you to say it is your opinion.
    I wouldn't go as far as to say there are 'No' facts here...  I would agree that most is just opinion...  But there is a stray fact her and there.  :)


  • Ian_HawkmoonIan_Hawkmoon Member Posts: 365

    Deleted....  Double post....  I hate when that happens...  :)

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