I've always maintained that developers don't intentionally release crap. That they at least believe in what they have made and have done their best.
Consider me proven wrong.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
So to sum up... "We knew we were selling you a half baked turd cake, but decided that many gamers are overly monied fools with short term memories, so full con ahead." Glad I never bought into this train wreck.
Oh well Toddster, congratulations on absolutely destroying my trust and respect in the entire Bethesda brand with your complete cow pat of a game.
Slightly over dramatic, don't ya think?
I actually enjoyed playing back around launch, and plan on one day returning for another look in the near future.
I don't know Kyleran. Bethesda is a victim of their own achievements. What I mean by that is they made such great games in the past that they set their OWN BAR so high the inevitable crash was bound to happen. Now why that crash happened is the real questions Mr Howard needs to ask. Was the game as bad and as buggy as majority claim or did it simply fail to achieve the greatness they achieved in the past ?
Don't want to derail this thread with the frenchman around but avoiding Steam didn't help their cause either
There is no comparison to ESO, which only had one real issue at launch which was bots. That and other minor issues were sorted by the six week point, I for one will want to see more then one post launch review of anything this guy has his hand in before I even consider buying.
I think the masses of broken quests, crashes, instancing and phasing problems were pretty relevant too..
ESO was a complete disaster zone when it launched.
I don't remember crashing, or instancing and phasing problems, I do remember some players who were racing to the end saying they were having problems with top level quests. Not saying that was you, but I can remember thinking "perhaps if they had not got to top level by week three there would have been time for that to be sorted out".
Also did you have these problems after the 6 week point, if not when did it all seem to sort itself out?
Their games were more of a platform for modders to work. By themselves ... decent games but would be nowhere as popular or for so long.
Well, it's true that mods do keep the games fresh. But that's the foresight they had with making it "easy" (relatively so) to mod their games.
I think they stood on their own. I mostly don't agree with how some modders have "fixed" things when in reality all they were doing was changing whatever it was to their taste.
Heck, I don't even use the unofficial patches as I started having issues with them crashing my game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So to sum up... "We knew we were selling you a half baked turd cake, but decided that many gamers are overly monied fools with short term memories, so full con ahead." Glad I never bought into this train wreck.
Oh well Toddster, congratulations on absolutely destroying my trust and respect in the entire Bethesda brand with your complete cow pat of a game.
Slightly over dramatic, don't ya think?
I actually enjoyed playing back around launch, and plan on one day returning for another look in the near future.
I have a lot of fun playing it now. I don't look for the bad. If it's fun, I'll play it. If it's not, I put it away and look in on it later. Life's too short to get too bent out of shape over games.
I'm there with you. I've enjoyed my time playing it. It's a fun game.
I think some people are purposely misreading some things that were said. He said he knew it would be bumpy and criticized because it was a new direction and new systems that old Fallout players might not appreciate. He didn't say he knew it would be bumpy because it was broken and stuff. He never said he knew the game had bugs and was going to charge full price for it anyway. They charged $60 for a game they believed in. That they were willing to take a risk in going a new direction with. That many of us, Fallout fans or not, enjoyed and are still enjoying.
Ugh... I need to just stop reading user comments to articles on this site I think. For a site that's supposed to be for people that enjoy games there's so much hate and negativity towards just about any game this site has an article about.
There is no comparison to ESO, which only had one real issue at launch which was bots. That and other minor issues were sorted by the six week point, I for one will want to see more then one post launch review of anything this guy has his hand in before I even consider buying.
I think the masses of broken quests, crashes, instancing and phasing problems were pretty relevant too..
ESO was a complete disaster zone when it launched.
Horseshit. There were some quests that broke due to the volume of players trying to do it at the same time in the same instanced version of that zone in the megaserver but every one of them could be worked around by leaving and coming back at it in hopefully, a version of that zone with less people where the quest hadn't been broken. This was exactly the same issue that The Secret World had when they launched.
Crashes were also few and far between. I had no problem leveling to 50 working my way around those few broken quest instances and once you got into the VR leveling the problems didn't exist at all because the population thinned out considerably at the higher levels if you were near the front of the leveling curve.
There's no way the FO76 launch shit show in any way resembles ESO at launch.
As to the "phasing problem" people complained about they came up with a cosmetic fix that seem to do the trick at least as far as criticism went: At launch if you were grouped with someone and you were in a different phase of a quest you would be invisible to your group mate. What they mostly did to address that was to keep you visible to your group mate although they still could not see the phased NPC you were interacting with - to them it just looks like you're standing there staring at nothing. This is still how a lot of this works today - just as much individualized phasing as there ever was but hey, your buddy can see you. This apparently is preferable.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So to sum up... "We knew we were selling you a half baked turd cake, but decided that many gamers are overly monied fools with short term memories, so full con ahead." Glad I never bought into this train wreck.
Oh well Toddster, congratulations on absolutely destroying my trust and respect in the entire Bethesda brand with your complete cow pat of a game.
Slightly over dramatic, don't ya think?
I actually enjoyed playing back around launch, and plan on one day returning for another look in the near future.
I have a lot of fun playing it now. I don't look for the bad. If it's fun, I'll play it. If it's not, I put it away and look in on it later. Life's too short to get too bent out of shape over games.
I'm there with you. I've enjoyed my time playing it. It's a fun game.
I think some people are purposely misreading some things that were said. He said he knew it would be bumpy and criticized because it was a new direction and new systems that old Fallout players might not appreciate. He didn't say he knew it would be bumpy because it was broken and stuff. He never said he knew the game had bugs and was going to charge full price for it anyway. They charged $60 for a game they believed in. That they were willing to take a risk in going a new direction with. That many of us, Fallout fans or not, enjoyed and are still enjoying.
Ugh... I need to just stop reading user comments to articles on this site I think. For a site that's supposed to be for people that enjoy games there's so much hate and negativity towards just about any game this site has an article about.
And everyone would've forgiven a gaffe regarding PvP systems (as tired as they've become), some balance issues, etc. at least as expected growing pains.
Technical quality is objective, and it was sorely lacking. At best, you're making the case Todd is completely tone-deaf.
Funniest thing he said in the interview "We should've let it bake a lot longer than we let it did."
Right, but it is clear management felt releasing in time for holiday sales was more important than delivering a more stable game.
Another case where the marketing department has more say on a product's readiness than the people making said product. It's a sad state for anyone in software development of any kind.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
There is no comparison to ESO, which only had one real issue at launch which was bots. That and other minor issues were sorted by the six week point, I for one will want to see more then one post launch review of anything this guy has his hand in before I even consider buying.
I think the masses of broken quests, crashes, instancing and phasing problems were pretty relevant too..
ESO was a complete disaster zone when it launched.
Horseshit. There were some quests that broke due to the volume of players trying to do it at the same time in the same instanced version of that zone in the megaserver but every one of them could be worked around by leaving and coming back at it in hopefully, a version of that zone with less people where the quest hadn't been broken. This was exactly the same issue that The Secret World had when they launched.
Crashes were also few and far between. I had no problem leveling to 50 working my way around those few broken quest instances and once you got into the VR leveling the problems didn't exist at all because the population thinned out considerably at the higher levels if you were near the front of the leveling curve.
There's no way the FO76 launch shit show in any way resembles ESO at launch.
As to the "phasing problem" people complained about they came up with a cosmetic fix that seem to do the trick at least as far as criticism went: At launch if you were grouped with someone and you were in a different phase of a quest you would be invisible to your group mate. What they mostly did to address that was to keep you visible to your group mate although they still could not see the phased NPC you were interacting with - to them it just looks like you're standing there staring at nothing. This is still how a lot of this works today - just as much individualized phasing as there ever was but hey, your buddy can see you. This apparently is preferable.
If they share one trait, it's the struggle to be straightforward and honest with their players. Maybe it's a company culture thing.
Fully agree. Spinning the message is such a kneejerk thing for them it has to be corporate culture.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I dunno, I remember ESO was a mess when it came out. It took them quite a while to fix quests or world bosses. There was skill lag and combat quirks and all types of PVP exploits. At the time it was a subscription so there's some QoL responsibility that comes with that. They definitely dragged their feet which irritated things even more. I remember those cookie cutter delves. I remember end-game being "you're now apart of the other faction" or Cyrodiil. It definitely wasn't a "no big deal" scenario unless you were an absolute fan(atic) or were the FOMO type.
I cut out early despite thinking the game was OK, and never bothered to return. Not to say it was on par with Fallout 76, but I wouldn't revision ESO as some minor quest bug deal at all. They've come a helluva long way.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Funniest thing he said in the interview "We should've let it bake a lot longer than we let it did."
Right, but it is clear management felt releasing in time for holiday sales was more important than delivering a more stable game.
Another case where the marketing department has more say on a product's readiness than the people making said product. It's a sad state for anyone in software development of any kind.
After awhile you learn to see when it's marketing hyping something. It usually sounds perfect.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
There is no comparison to ESO, which only had one real issue at launch which was bots. That and other minor issues were sorted by the six week point, I for one will want to see more then one post launch review of anything this guy has his hand in before I even consider buying.
I think the masses of broken quests, crashes, instancing and phasing problems were pretty relevant too..
ESO was a complete disaster zone when it launched.
I don't remember crashing, or instancing and phasing problems, I do remember some players who were racing to the end saying they were having problems with top level quests. Not saying that was you, but I can remember thinking "perhaps if they had not got to top level by week three there would have been time for that to be sorted out".
Also did you have these problems after the 6 week point, if not when did it all seem to sort itself out?
I may be confusing crashing with disconnects. Either way, I had a really bad time when ESO launched. I had at least 4 quests that I was unable to progress in Stonefalls (I remember Ash Mountain and Brothers of Strife specifically) and trying to quest with my mates was practically impossible because of the phasing and when doing delves we were often put into different instances even though we were in a group. I also got stuck in quest instances a number of times, easy to Wayshrine out but everything sold for 1 gold at launch and quests hardly gave any gold at launch so being forced to portal out of broken quest instances was a real pain. I stopped playing because of it and didn't start playing again for a few months. I'm not sure when things were fixed.
I'm not suggesting ESO was the same level as FO76, I didn't play 76 at launch. Just saying there were more issues than just the bots.
I dunno, I remember ESO was a mess when it came out. It took them quite a while to fix quests or world bosses. There was skill lag and combat quirks and all types of PVP exploits. At the time it was a subscription so there's some QoL responsibility that comes with that. They definitely dragged their feet which irritated things even more. I remember those cookie cutter delves. I remember end-game being "you're now apart of the other faction" or Cyrodiil. It definitely wasn't a "no big deal" scenario unless you were an absolute fan(atic) or were the FOMO type.
I cut out early despite thinking the game was OK, and never bothered to return. Not to say it was on par with Fallout 76, but I wouldn't revision ESO as some minor quest bug deal at all. They've come a helluva long way.
It wasn't perfect by any means and there were a lot of cases where the quests were badly designed and were later reworked with different instancing to make them more technically robust. And yeah they cheaped out with lazy copypasta delve design and later on reworked them all to make them unique - new delves pumped out with every new zone they add are actually all unique and very well done now... they learned that lesson.
But hey I've been a day one, early adopting MMORPG player for decades so I've seen the inevitable fuck-ups that all of them launch with. ESO, IMO, was upper third in that respect. Not even close to being the launch day shit show we've come to expect.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I always feel played when a company tries to mirror back to customers what the customers are angry about, with a soft reassuring we know, we know, we hear you, kind of bullshit.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It isn't hard to look at that statement and realize how completely arrogant it sounds. It doesn't take a PR manager to spot that.
I think what Todd believed he was saying is: - we expected some flak because it wasn't the usual Bethseda game; - but yes in hindsight we should have done more testing.
I don't think Todd was being that "apologetic". Or how his comments would be received. Which arguably speaks volumes about Bethseda.
Sure, just admit in an interview that your company knew they were selling a defective product but shipped it anyway. I bet the legal department loved that.
So to sum up... "We knew we were selling you a half baked turd cake, but decided that many gamers are overly monied fools with short term memories, so full con ahead." Glad I never bought into this train wreck.
Oh well Toddster, congratulations on absolutely destroying my trust and respect in the entire Bethesda brand with your complete cow pat of a game.
Slightly over dramatic, don't ya think?
I actually enjoyed playing back around launch, and plan on one day returning for another look in the near future.
Don't want to derail this thread with the frenchman around but avoiding Steam didn't help their cause either
No need to avoid discussing Steam or Epic in general- just don't spew bullshit about the situation ala Chinese government fear-mongering or some such.
Not that hard. Essentially: don't make bad faith arguments.
It isn't hard to look at that statement and realize how completely arrogant it sounds. It doesn't take a PR manager to spot that.
I think what Todd believed he was saying is: - we expected some flak because it wasn't the usual Bethseda game; - but yes in hindsight we should have done more testing.
I don't think Todd was being that "apologetic". Or how his comments would be received. Which arguably speaks volumes about Bethseda.
I think you are correct.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Consider me proven wrong.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Don't want to derail this thread with the frenchman around but avoiding Steam didn't help their cause either
Aloha Mr Hand !
Also did you have these problems after the 6 week point, if not when did it all seem to sort itself out?
I think they stood on their own. I mostly don't agree with how some modders have "fixed" things when in reality all they were doing was changing whatever it was to their taste.
Heck, I don't even use the unofficial patches as I started having issues with them crashing my game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm there with you. I've enjoyed my time playing it. It's a fun game.
I think some people are purposely misreading some things that were said. He said he knew it would be bumpy and criticized because it was a new direction and new systems that old Fallout players might not appreciate. He didn't say he knew it would be bumpy because it was broken and stuff. He never said he knew the game had bugs and was going to charge full price for it anyway. They charged $60 for a game they believed in. That they were willing to take a risk in going a new direction with. That many of us, Fallout fans or not, enjoyed and are still enjoying.
Ugh... I need to just stop reading user comments to articles on this site I think. For a site that's supposed to be for people that enjoy games there's so much hate and negativity towards just about any game this site has an article about.
Elite: Dangerous
Crashes were also few and far between. I had no problem leveling to 50 working my way around those few broken quest instances and once you got into the VR leveling the problems didn't exist at all because the population thinned out considerably at the higher levels if you were near the front of the leveling curve.
There's no way the FO76 launch shit show in any way resembles ESO at launch.
As to the "phasing problem" people complained about they came up with a cosmetic fix that seem to do the trick at least as far as criticism went: At launch if you were grouped with someone and you were in a different phase of a quest you would be invisible to your group mate. What they mostly did to address that was to keep you visible to your group mate although they still could not see the phased NPC you were interacting with - to them it just looks like you're standing there staring at nothing. This is still how a lot of this works today - just as much individualized phasing as there ever was but hey, your buddy can see you. This apparently is preferable.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Technical quality is objective, and it was sorely lacking. At best, you're making the case Todd is completely tone-deaf.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I cut out early despite thinking the game was OK, and never bothered to return. Not to say it was on par with Fallout 76, but I wouldn't revision ESO as some minor quest bug deal at all. They've come a helluva long way.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I'm not suggesting ESO was the same level as FO76, I didn't play 76 at launch. Just saying there were more issues than just the bots.
Same reply to @Iselin I guess.
But hey I've been a day one, early adopting MMORPG player for decades so I've seen the inevitable fuck-ups that all of them launch with. ESO, IMO, was upper third in that respect. Not even close to being the launch day shit show we've come to expect.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
- we expected some flak because it wasn't the usual Bethseda game;
- but yes in hindsight we should have done more testing.
I don't think Todd was being that "apologetic". Or how his comments would be received. Which arguably speaks volumes about Bethseda.
Not that hard. Essentially: don't make bad faith arguments.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aloha Mr Hand !
Aloha Mr Hand !