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P vs. P is a broken concept
Billius8
Member Posts: 574
P vs. P in most games is nothing more than a gankfest, favoring those who work less in real life and play more. P vs. P in DAOC is a "forced role" that most people I've gamed with find quite annoying. Pure P vs. P games tend to run off many more players than they attract (i.e., Shadowbane) because folks generally don't like to be ganked. Being ganked is sort of like having someone "count coup" on you. It's not a good feeling. Ganking someone isn't that great a rush and gets old after awhile.
Don't believe me? Just look at pure P vs. P games and their dwindling membership. Or, just look at game which allow a mix of this by having P vs P servers. Usually the P vs P population is much smaller in comparison to the rest of the game. The P vs P crowd just ain't that big. Overly vocal? Sure, but not very big.
MMORPG's might have one or two servers dedicated to these folks, just as pizza restaurants keep a jar of anchovies for the small percentage of customers who prefer this condiment on their pizza's. But P vs P as a major element of a game is a big mistake, in my opinion. The forced P vs P in the form of DAOC's realm vs realm is a takeaway in my view. Not many folks I've met really like it. In fact, they commonly say they have to go and put in their R vs R time as if it were a duty.
Comments
I agree to the reply made.......
Also you have to consider why shadowbanes population dropped........due to the community getting the shaft and being ignored by the devs and the numerous hacks and exploits going unpunished...........
Good question. I see it as forced in that, in the natural progression of the game, if you're going to get special abilities, you need to go R vs. R. Also, in guilds at the higher levels, the rest of the guild will expect your participation to some degree. Obviously, much effort has been put into the Realm vs. Realm design at some level of sacrifice of content.
Maybe it's just my style, but I would like a return to what I experience in early EQ (without going back to EQ, done with that), where there was this vast unexplored world and my character was just a Barbarian wanderer carrying no more than a sword with him. Freedom to wander a vast mysterious game world appeals more to me than a small game world with artificial roles (i.e. Realm versus Realm) already spelled out in advance.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
DAOC is a good example of unforced PvP. The biggest problem with DAOC PvP system is that it's realm system leads to server population issues, limited territory to explore per character, and balance issues.
But that is another post.
The market is still very young Yet. Still you can't make blanket statements like this. Maybe YOU do not like PvP but it's not broken by any means.
The largest MMORPG on Earth has 4+ million players. The next closest is EQ with a measly 400K.
PvP hasn't been overly popular in North America. That's it. And still about 1-2 million people in north America are playing a PvP type MMORPG today. It's a very working concept.
What don't understand is why people that dislike PvP need to try convince others it doesn't work. It does work and it works well. Granted some games poorly implamented PvP (EQ) or wonderfull PvP games has so many other problems that people stoped playing them. (SB) All this tells is that people in North America want a quality PvP game, where PvP is balanced. It says nothing else.
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Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
Cheers, Dedicated WoW Fan
You are 100% wrong and there is no basis to anything that you say.
PVP is the ONLY thing capable of keeping MMORPGS fun past a single month at most.
The whole idea behind ganking is basically this: Many people who play MMORPGS are social rejects. Many of them are social rejects because they are oversensitive to unpleasant events and denial of respect, because their parents criticized them too much as kids or whatever. The people who whine about ganking in mmorpgs are the same people that sit there cursing out their computers and throwing controllers etc. when they die to the computer controlled mobs. They have no sense of competition, challenge etc. When playing MMO's suddenly they can blame all their problems on other players rather than having no choice other than to adapt to succeed. I have played some of the worst games for player ganking, and if you figure out what the heck you are doing its really not that bad. You just level where it is safe and when you are ready to compete just always make sure you are ready to fight when you might need too. When you die you learn and move on.
Many people are mature enough to handle pvp and learn quickly how to survive in these games. Shadowbane happens to be a fairly succesful game, and the reasons why some pvp games like say neocron fail is actually because they don't have the balls to STAY pvp and also let their GM's encourage this whiny type attitude which gm's naturally want to do. When the time comes that a pvp based game comes, and has a smart combat, risk/reward system, progress system etc it will be the MOST popular MMORPG ever.
This whole "Rainbowland" mentality of MMO designers recently has completely ruined the market, and in almost every game you will find a slew of people sick of the game but who stay anyways because them and their friends have nowhere better to go yet.
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