I like the new movies. It's a great passing of the torch. I really like how Luke went out. On his own terms no one beat him.
To me Ray is simply the force trying to restore balance after the mess up that the Skywalker line wrecked on it.
I think this is a bit insane to say, since the Star Wars franchise really was in all actuality, a family story, the story of the Skywalker family. And this is what pisses off a massive amount of people. I expected lots of the character in EP7 to be somehow connected to the original characters. And then astonishingly in EP8 you find out that all the theories were NOTHING and that all these characters are just new characters.
Also I might add that, even as standalone film, I judge them negatively. The first film was decent, but the sequel just dropped the ball in terms of character building. They are making this franchise to be about Rey (the Mary Sue), but what happened to the Black guy Finn? He was an entertaining character, I would have liked him to be a secret son of Mace Windu or something, and be force sensitive, not just a character made to prop up the Mary Sue (and increase diversity quotas). The arch villain (Snoke) was disappointingly killed. The son of Han Solo doesn't make for a convincing villain, just a conflicted teen. And on and on I could go about the flaws in the writing, which is atrocious.
When you finally realise that these are mediocre films made to attract the generation Z sci fi viewers, make lots of easy cash, and not make great SW entries in the franchise...That's when you feel depressed. Oh Lucas what did you do?
See to me Star wars was a story about an empire rebels and the force told through the Skywalker family. The battle between good Force users in bad Force users existed before the Skywalker family, with other people during the Skywalker family and exists after the Skywalker family.
Star wars is about the fight between evil dominating empires, rebels and the force. And that encompasses much more than just one family.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Disappointing, with the next Starwars movie due to be released, after its been reshot numerous times, its going to be a collossal flop, it is Jar Jar Abrams after all, the guy does not understand Starwars and has no interest in making an actual Starwars film, Solo flopped for a reason, TLJ destroyed the Starwars IP and they have been doubling down ever since.
Disappointing, with the next Starwars movie due to be released, after its been reshot numerous times, its going to be a collossal flop, it is Jar Jar Abrams after all, the guy does not understand Starwars and has no interest in making an actual Starwars film, Solo flopped for a reason, TLJ destroyed the Starwars IP and they have been doubling down ever since.
I agree with you but that is a hot take. Most people on twitter and IGN are more hopeful for 9 because of JJ. I think its the only reason why it will make at least 800 million or more.
Regardless what it will make, I hope it's a good story.
The trailer looks promising (Dark Rey and all) but we all know they're not going to make creative and risky story choices, especially with JJ Abrams at the helm who isn't really a good writer/artist, just a technocrat producing big effect films.
I'd love them to prove me wrong though and blow my mind with a twist like Ben Solo being the actual Hero that ends up killing Rey who becomes a literal Dark Side demon and Darth Maul 2.0, leaping around doing somesaults whilst flinging her two bladed red saber around lol.
Disappointing, with the next Starwars movie due to be released, after its been reshot numerous times, its going to be a collossal flop, it is Jar Jar Abrams after all, the guy does not understand Starwars and has no interest in making an actual Starwars film, Solo flopped for a reason, TLJ destroyed the Starwars IP and they have been doubling down ever since.
I agree with you but that is a hot take. Most people on twitter and IGN are more hopeful for 9 because of JJ. I think its the only reason why it will make at least 800 million or more.
Regardless what it will make, I hope it's a good story.
The trailer looks promising (Dark Rey and all) but we all know they're not going to make creative and risky story choices, especially with JJ Abrams at the helm who isn't really a good writer/artist, just a technocrat producing big effect films.
I'd love them to prove me wrong though and blow my mind with a twist like Ben Solo being the actual Hero that ends up killing Rey who becomes a literal Dark Side demon and Darth Maul 2.0, leaping around doing somesaults whilst flinging her two bladed red saber around lol.
Don't get your hopes up. Darth Rey is just a dream/force vision.
I don't think Star Wars is a cheap brand at all, so basically this entire post is pointless imo.
I guess the correct term would be cheapened, or as Disney likes to call it monetized. I can't hate though, Disney has opened the doors for some really cool collaborations..like this Shag piece below.
Yes. After the franchise is worthless and someone competent buys it.
I've always liked Disney in the past. But think about it. The fact that Disney renewed the deal with EA should've been a giveaway that the company is not being run by people who know anything about their own industry. Disney could've easily had 20 or 30 Star Wars games out now in multiple genres. They could've have made a huge amount of Marvel games too. They've fired all the talented people they used to have, and replaced them with minimum-wage temp-workers from overseas who don't get their visas renews unless they work hard. They're just trying to make as much money every quarter as they can, to grab more investor money.
It's a strategy that works for a little while, but the company starts to lose talent as the best people leave, while the people with less-impressive resumes can't find new jobs as easily. That's why the new movies aren't the best. They could've picked Steven Spielberg, or James Cameron, or Christopher Nolan, or Quentin Tarantino, or Joss Whedon. But no, let's pick the guy who directed "the Evil Demon Golfball from Hell". Cheap director. Cheap writers. Cheap crew. The old-movie actors are expensive so they have short scenes. The actors for the new characters are in development-hell with a toxic work environment. (You'd expect actors to be pampered, not bullied on set). It's unlikely Disney can get the old and new actors to come back for future movies. That's why you're going to get the Mandalorian and animated shows.
Eventually the company will lose the capability to release products on-time and the investors will flee. This is why they're investing in a streaming service. Streaming will allow them to survive on their past glories, even after their production-quality crashes.
Eventually a more-productive streaming-service, like Amazon or Hulu, will buy them.
Yes. After the franchise is worthless and someone competent buys it.
I've always liked Disney in the past. But think about it. The fact that Disney renewed the deal with EA should've been a giveaway that the company is not being run by people who know anything about their own industry. Disney could've easily had 20 or 30 Star Wars games out now in multiple genres. They could've have made a huge amount of Marvel games too. They've fired all the talented people they used to have, and replaced them with minimum-wage temp-workers from overseas who don't get their visas renews unless they work hard. They're just trying to make as much money every quarter as they can, to grab more investor money.
It's a strategy that works for a little while, but the company starts to lose talent as the best people leave, while the people with less-impressive resumes can't find new jobs as easily. That's why the new movies aren't the best. They could've picked Steven Spielberg, or James Cameron, or Christopher Nolan, or Quentin Tarantino, or Joss Whedon. But no, let's pick the guy who directed "the Evil Demon Golfball from Hell". Cheap director. Cheap writers. Cheap crew. The old-movie actors are expensive so they have short scenes. The actors for the new characters are in development-hell with a toxic work environment. (You'd expect actors to be pampered, not bullied on set). It's unlikely Disney can get the old and new actors to come back for future movies. That's why you're going to get the Mandalorian and animated shows.
Eventually the company will lose the capability to release products on-time and the investors will flee. This is why they're investing in a streaming service. Streaming will allow them to survive on their past glories, even after their production-quality crashes.
Eventually a more-productive streaming-service, like Amazon or Hulu, will buy them.
Excellent post. But MMORPGs themselves have entered into the "vast wasteland" status due to level grind and dead-head game play, in my opinion. Until that changes, nothing good will come with SW's or any others. But once it does, this franchise has tremendous potential.
When the big selling points for the "new" movie are bringing back a dead Emperor out of the blue with no buildup and bringing back Lando out of the blue with no buildup it should tell you a lot. It's a desperate Hail maty pass to try and get the interest of those who thought TLJ was trash.
Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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When the big selling points for the "new" movie are bringing back a dead Emperor out of the blue with no buildup and bringing back Lando out of the blue with no buildup it should tell you a lot. It's a desperate Hail maty pass to try and get the interest of those who thought TLJ was trash.
Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
I liked it.
Why should I capitulate to what you think is good or bad. Especially when, admitting that no movie is perfect, one can just go with the flow.
I liked the pleasure planet so it wasn't any skin off my nose. I liked seeing the characters in a different setting and working together.
I cringed at first about "space Leia Poppins" but then thought "the force." 'nuff said. People didn't cringe about lifting up a fighter with their mind. But having an energy that surrounds us, binds us, connects us only means a few very narrow things like lifting heavy objects or obfuscating people's minds. "Can't possibly do anything else, no sireebob!"
Maybe this will put it in perspective: I was talking about Star Wars with some friends some weeks ago and a friend of mine said he didn't like star wars AT ALL. Thought it was crap. Why? Because there was sound in space when things blew up. As soon as he witnessed that as a kid he washed his hands of the whole thing as ridiculous and never looked back.
Yet, I don't see you complaining about it. Or maybe you cringe but "just accept it." People defend the movie because they aren't you. Don't forget that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When the big selling points for the "new" movie are bringing back a dead Emperor out of the blue with no buildup and bringing back Lando out of the blue with no buildup it should tell you a lot. It's a desperate Hail maty pass to try and get the interest of those who thought TLJ was trash.
Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
I liked it.
Why should I capitulate to what you think is good or bad. Especially when, admitting that no movie is perfect, one can just go with the flow.
I liked the pleasure planet so it wasn't any skin off my nose. I liked seeing the characters in a different setting and working together.
I cringed at first about "space Leia Poppins" but then thought "the force." 'nuff said. People didn't cringe about lifting up a fighter with their mind. But having an energy that surrounds us, binds us, connects us only means a few very narrow things like lifting heavy objects or obfuscating people's minds.
Maybe this will put it in perspective: I was talking about Star Wars with some friends some weeks ago and a friend of mine said he didn't like star wars AT ALL. Thought it was crap. Why? Because there was sound in space when things blew up. As soon as he witnessed that as a kid he washed his hands of the whole thing as ridiculous and never looked back.
Yet, I don't see you complaining about it. Or maybe you cringe but "just accept it." People defend the movie because they aren't you. Don't forget that.
What I pointed out were plot holes and things that normally would be handled by an editor and... removed. One can actually LIKE bad movies. I do myself... I think The Other Guys is one of the most hysterical things I have ever seen... but I can acknowledge it is a horrendous movie.
You liked the Finn and Rose stuff... OK.. it had zero to do with the main story arch and added nothing to the end. It literally could have been 100% cut from the film and the film would have had the same ending. It wasn't a 3 minutes sidebar, it was a huge chunk of the movie. Space Leia Poppins was just poorly done, and you never even addressed the "hyperspace a ship through a ship" concept which utterly destroyed all the prior space battles.
As I stated above... despite the outward words from Disney... it appears that THEY truly understand that. They have quietly stopped work on Rian Johnson's proposed trilogy which HE just confirmed. They are hyping The Emperor and Lando as keystones of the new movie. They are obviously going to make Rey related to the Emperor (or much less chance, some Jedi of old). It's a blatant effort to get back fans of the original trilogy. Those exact same fans that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy put down.
Don't look at what Disney SAYS... look at what they DO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What I pointed out were plot holes and things that normally would be handled by an editor and... removed. One can actually LIKE bad movies. I do myself... I think The Other Guys is one of the most hysterical things I have ever seen... but I can acknowledge it is a horrendous movie.
You liked the Finn and Rose stuff... OK.. it had zero to do with the main story arch and added nothing to the end. It literally could have been 100% cut from the film and the film would have had the same ending. It wasn't a 3 minutes sidebar, it was a huge chunk of the movie. Space Leia Poppins was just poorly done, and you never even addressed the "hyperspace a ship through a ship" concept which utterly destroyed all the prior space battles.
As I stated above... despite the outward words from Disney... it appears that THEY truly understand that. They have quietly stopped work on Rian Johnson's proposed trilogy which HE just confirmed. They are hyping The Emperor and Lando as keystones of the new movie. They are obviously going to make Rey related to the Emperor (or much less chance, some Jedi of old). It's a blatant effort to get back fans of the original trilogy. Those exact same fans that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy put down.
Don't look at what Disney SAYS... look at what they DO.
While it had zero to do with story arch it had something to do with their characters. And also, as mentioned above, the nature of evil/good. As I've said before, I'm completely comfortable with movies that take detours and allow us to be with the characters and explore who they are or explore separate ideas. pro tip: don't watch "The Last Year at Marienbad" it will drive you nuts.
I had no problem with the hyper space jump thing. I'm not even clear what the issue is. They jumped to hyper space and in a split second materialized. I seem to recall in the first movie they said that if the millenium falcon jump wasn't planned well they could materialize in a star. So they instead used that same idea to materialize in a ship on purpose.
wtf is the problem? With a fictional "science device" no less. No one seems to be kvetching about what that does to a human body. But then "not important."
Obi Wan Kenobi had his body vanish. VANISH! yet no one cries over that. Leia is just protected by the ravages of space and is able to use the force to move her body through "space." Awesome! The force does more than lift luggage!
I take the movies as they come. If they want to change things fine. If they want to change them again then "fine." As long as I'm enjoying myself and can accept what they do in the moment I'm good. Because "again" these are fantasy yarns about adventurers in space. They aren't much more than that yet some fans need them to be.
That's why when I see the kids in the theater going nuts with joy I realize that all is right with the world.
Well, accept those like my friend who can't accept the sound in space thing. Which again, doesn't seem to bother you (?)
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What I pointed out were plot holes and things that normally would be handled by an editor and... removed. One can actually LIKE bad movies. I do myself... I think The Other Guys is one of the most hysterical things I have ever seen... but I can acknowledge it is a horrendous movie.
You liked the Finn and Rose stuff... OK.. it had zero to do with the main story arch and added nothing to the end. It literally could have been 100% cut from the film and the film would have had the same ending. It wasn't a 3 minutes sidebar, it was a huge chunk of the movie. Space Leia Poppins was just poorly done, and you never even addressed the "hyperspace a ship through a ship" concept which utterly destroyed all the prior space battles.
As I stated above... despite the outward words from Disney... it appears that THEY truly understand that. They have quietly stopped work on Rian Johnson's proposed trilogy which HE just confirmed. They are hyping The Emperor and Lando as keystones of the new movie. They are obviously going to make Rey related to the Emperor (or much less chance, some Jedi of old). It's a blatant effort to get back fans of the original trilogy. Those exact same fans that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy put down.
Don't look at what Disney SAYS... look at what they DO.
While it had zero to do with story arch it had something to do with their characters. And also, as mentioned above, the nature of evil/good. As I've said before, I'm completely comfortable with movies that take detours and allow us to be with the characters and explore who they are or explore separate ideas. pro tip: don't watch "The Last Year at Marienbad" it will drive you nuts.
I had no problem with the hyper space jump thing. I'm not even clear what the issue is. They jumped to hyper space and in a split second materialized. I seem to recall in the first movie they said that if the millenium falcon jump wasn't planned well they could materialize in a star. So they instead used that same idea to materialize in a ship on purpose.
wtf is the problem? With a fictional "science device" no less. No one seems to be kvetching about what that does to a human body. But then "not important."
Obi Wan Kenobi had his body vanish. VANISH! yet no one cries over that. Leia is just protected by the ravages of space and is able to use the force to move her body through "space." Awesome! The force does more than lift luggage!
I take the movies as they come. If they want to change things fine. If they want to change them again then "fine." As long as I'm enjoying myself and can accept what they do in the moment I'm good. Because "again" these are fantasy yarns about adventurers in space. They aren't much more than that yet some fans need them to be.
That's why when I see the kids in the theater going nuts with joy I realize that all is right with the world.
Well, accept those like my friend who can't accept the sound in space thing. Which again, doesn't seem to bother you (?)
The point, as I said a few times, is that they eliminated the need for ever having had huge space battles in the past. If this is all it takes to blow up huge things, then they just need drone ships to blow everything up. No need to fly into the Deathstar trenches... just have a ship fly through it.
As for sound. That is a valid criticism if talking about a hard sci-fi series. Same as the physics involved. Star Destroyers do not just "sink". But Star Wars is not a hard sci-fi series. It's a story and all we ask is to be consistent or at least not utterly invalidate the very heart of prior movies.
As for the "kids going nuts"... I was there at the first showing on opening day. Most kids, including my own.. were laughing at Space Mary Poppins or looking at each other with WTF on their faces. There is a reason very few people went back for a repeat viewing of the movie and this is borne out by the numbers. TLJ sold 40% fewer tickets in the US than TFA. So there may have in fact been "kids going nuts", but a lot fewer than TFA...
Then couple that with the FACT that Disney has put Rian Johnson's trilogy into hibernation and it's not subjective "feelings" but actual numbers that support what I am saying.
One more piece of DATA since you mentioned Kids. The sales of Star Wars toys and related merchandise is down... down.. down... Again, actual data, not an anecdote about seeing some kids cheer.
Star Wars merchandise has been declining every year
In its 2018 Annual Financial Report, Disney reported revenue for their Consumer Products division was down 4% from 2018 to 2017, and down almost 16% from 2018 to 2016, which includes Star Wars and Marvel Comics and products.
The numbers are a bit skewed now as Disney has since combined how they report on their Consumer Products division as they have paired it with their Parks division, essentially hiding the losses and making as it appear as if both divisions have seen increases in revenue. What is really happening is that the Parks division numbers have been offsetting the lower numbers from Consumer Products.
It should be said that today's report mentions their Consumer Products division is on the up and up due to Toy Story 4 merchandise, but again, the numbers are not as good due to a decline in Star War merchandising sales.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes. After the franchise is worthless and someone competent buys it.
I've always liked Disney in the past. But think about it. The fact that Disney renewed the deal with EA should've been a giveaway that the company is not being run by people who know anything about their own industry. Disney could've easily had 20 or 30 Star Wars games out now in multiple genres. They could've have made a huge amount of Marvel games too. They've fired all the talented people they used to have, and replaced them with minimum-wage temp-workers from overseas who don't get their visas renews unless they work hard. They're just trying to make as much money every quarter as they can, to grab more investor money.
It's a strategy that works for a little while, but the company starts to lose talent as the best people leave, while the people with less-impressive resumes can't find new jobs as easily. That's why the new movies aren't the best. They could've picked Steven Spielberg, or James Cameron, or Christopher Nolan, or Quentin Tarantino, or Joss Whedon. But no, let's pick the guy who directed "the Evil Demon Golfball from Hell". Cheap director. Cheap writers. Cheap crew. The old-movie actors are expensive so they have short scenes. The actors for the new characters are in development-hell with a toxic work environment. (You'd expect actors to be pampered, not bullied on set). It's unlikely Disney can get the old and new actors to come back for future movies. That's why you're going to get the Mandalorian and animated shows.
Eventually the company will lose the capability to release products on-time and the investors will flee. This is why they're investing in a streaming service. Streaming will allow them to survive on their past glories, even after their production-quality crashes.
Eventually a more-productive streaming-service, like Amazon or Hulu, will buy them.
Disney is in no real trouble. All they need to do is wait for whatever media replaces the DVD, and re-release their entire stock of family friendly movies to that platform. Viola! Instant major revenue stream. That's been their strategy from about 1960 on. Re-release the theatrical versions. Let's go! Video tapes? We need that. What's this, DVDs? I'm in. Theatrical re-release, but this time in IMAX? Little Jimmy would love to see that. BluRay? Sounds good. Disney doesn't even need to invest in the R&D, they just wait for the next new thing and jump on the bandwagon.
Disney's future is in new media; content creation is merely a lucrative sideline.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Disney is in no real trouble. All they need to do is wait for whatever media replaces the DVD, and re-release their entire stock of family friendly movies to that platform. Viola! Instant major revenue stream. That's been their strategy from about 1960 on. Re-release the theatrical versions. Let's go! Video tapes? We need that. What's this, DVDs? I'm in. Theatrical re-release, but this time in IMAX? Little Jimmy would love to see that. BluRay? Sounds good. Disney doesn't even need to invest in the R&D, they just wait for the next new thing and jump on the bandwagon.
Disney's future is in new media; content creation is merely a lucrative sideline.
Isn't that what they are doing with their streaming service?
Part of the reason why I buy most of the things I like. Eventually someone is going to want me to "subscribe" or I lose access to them. Or their "agreements with their content providers" will change and suddenly I won't be able to see "Blood Mania" or "Vampire's Kiss" (or any of our "bad movie night" movies) and have to wait to see if it ever comes back. And if it doesn't? Then where will I be?!?!?!?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What I pointed out were plot holes and things that normally would be handled by an editor and... removed. One can actually LIKE bad movies. I do myself... I think The Other Guys is one of the most hysterical things I have ever seen... but I can acknowledge it is a horrendous movie.
You liked the Finn and Rose stuff... OK.. it had zero to do with the main story arch and added nothing to the end. It literally could have been 100% cut from the film and the film would have had the same ending. It wasn't a 3 minutes sidebar, it was a huge chunk of the movie. Space Leia Poppins was just poorly done, and you never even addressed the "hyperspace a ship through a ship" concept which utterly destroyed all the prior space battles.
As I stated above... despite the outward words from Disney... it appears that THEY truly understand that. They have quietly stopped work on Rian Johnson's proposed trilogy which HE just confirmed. They are hyping The Emperor and Lando as keystones of the new movie. They are obviously going to make Rey related to the Emperor (or much less chance, some Jedi of old). It's a blatant effort to get back fans of the original trilogy. Those exact same fans that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy put down.
Don't look at what Disney SAYS... look at what they DO.
First off lets stop saying that TLJ made way less money. If you look at the drop between episode 4 and the 5 its almost 1:1. Not every movie can be a Marvel movie make more money with the sequel. In truth The Marvel movies are really the only movies doing that today. Except for a John Wick which is getting more and more popular as time goes on.
Yes, Star Wars Galaxies Edge isn't doing well now but I don't know what people expected since their flagship ride doesn't open till December in DisneyWorld and January in Disneyland. Smugglers Run was never supposed to be the big "E" ticket attraction. Rise of the Resistance is. The ride is so unique and new that it has run into various problems during testing meaning it keeps getting delayed.
From what I have heard from a few of my cousins that worked their and from sources online its really three rides in one and getting them all to play nice is getting tricky. Also Disneyworld and Disneyland is down because of how expensive it is getting. Its not like Galaxies Edge opened and people said, "Nope."
Its because around the time of GE opening they inflated tickets four times.
To go to Disneyland for me and my wife for 4 days it was like 2500. To go Disneyworld for 7 it was the same. This was also staying at the cheapest hotel they have on disney property and does not count food and the like. Most people don't want to stay at the cheapest hotel. My grandma refuses to stay at Pop century or an all star resort. I know plenty of people that do. So now you are getting up to $5000 for a 7 day trip. For just hotel and tickets or more depending on the hotel and the room.
The fact is GE didn't kill Disneyland/World. Disney did themselves with the price increase. They just raised up food prices again. So a pretzel now at World costs $8 instead of $5 which it was the last time i went in 2017
First off.. I didn't say it made less money. I said 40% less TICKETS. And comparing to the original trilogy is not fair, because SW was unique in that nobody had really seen a film such as that, and people went to see it a ridiculous number of times. Also remember that between SW and Empire (yes I don't call it A New Hope ) we had VHS really take off.
But that is also followed (as I edited to add) with a decrease in toy and merchandise sales as well.
As for Disney prices.. I have been to DisneyWorld countless times. Literally.. I have lost track as I moved to Florida in 2007 and the first thing we did was buy passes. We stopped a few years back when we realized we could get passes to Universal AND Seaworld for less money. Plus the fact that Disney was pretty bad about adding new rides until the last year or so. But regardless of that, Star Wars used to be a massive draw on it's own. I was at Star Wars Celebration when the TLJ trailer launched. There were people who slept in the convention center on concrete floors and then a trail of people outside for literally miles. Not figuratively. Literally. Those fans who flew to Orlando for the convention never showed up at the parks. At least not yet. Or not in significant enough numbers. So sure if taking just as one data point you can argue about pricing, but not in conjunction with all the others.
Star Wars fans were the most loyal, diehard fans that you could find. Not any longer. Or at least, not in the same numbers.
The proof is in the data.
If Iger was really happy they would have been pushing out Rian Johnson's promised trilogy faster than you can say Force Ghost... but that hasn't happened and it's not because he isn't available. He has said he will now need to look for another film to direct since his calendar is open. It's because Iger, despite what he says publicly, also knows they need to course correct. And part of that is bringing back the other Original Characters. Part of that is canceling Rian's film (or putting them in carbonite for now). Part of that are the actual discount emails I get from DisneyWorld and how they opened up blackout dates.
Disney is not done. Star Wars is not done. A lot for both will hinge on The Mandalorian. I think a real, back to basics hit will help both.
Again, there is NO IP in the world better suited to the MMORPG world than Star Wars. It will rise again. Just not right now.
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The point, as I said a few times, is that they eliminated the need for ever having had huge space battles in the past. If this is all it takes to blow up huge things, then they just need drone ships to blow everything up. No need to fly into the Deathstar trenches... just have a ship fly through it.
t again, the numbers are not as good due to a decline in Star War merchandising sales.
uh, you're thinking like a person from 2019 and not a person from 1977.
I mean, why not just "beam" or "send" the death star plans to the rebel base using encrypted data and, say, their version of a false IP address? Were you alive back then? I was. It was a very different world. I distinctly remember a life without atm's, internet, remote controls, cable, no dvd's or cd's just records, some of them being 78's and believe it or not reel to reel tapes.
That's the problem, people can't keep things in perspective and it's wayyyy to dorky. It's too much of this:
I should add, as far as their ride, I can't rightly say why it's not popular except that I KNOW of several people actually waiting for it to be done. My girlfriend being one of them. Why would I spend money on going there for a partial experience when I can wait for a full one?
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Data Points: TLJ ticket sales down 40% vs TFA Star Wars Convention attendance down from the one before TLJ to the one before Ep9 Star Wars Merchandise down Attendance at Disney down despite the opening of Star Wars land Disney Parks President resigning Iger has put the Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy on hold
You can take one by itself and argue, but it is across the board.
Can they turn it around? As I said... absolutely. And the steps that Iger/Disney are taking are attempts to do that. There is a reason that they are bringing back The Emperor and Lando and burying Rian's trilogy... Will it be enough? We will see.
My hopes are really more on The Mandalorian than on Episode 9.
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When the big selling points for the "new" movie are bringing back a dead Emperor out of the blue with no buildup and bringing back Lando out of the blue with no buildup it should tell you a lot. It's a desperate Hail maty pass to try and get the interest of those who thought TLJ was trash.
Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
To me, it's not so much that the film was bad on a stylistic level. I feel TLJ was beautiful to watch. However the writing is simply atrocious.
When the big selling points for the "new" movie are bringing back a dead Emperor out of the blue with no buildup and bringing back Lando out of the blue with no buildup it should tell you a lot. It's a desperate Hail maty pass to try and get the interest of those who thought TLJ was trash.
Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
To me, it's not so much that the film was bad on a stylistic level. I feel TLJ was beautiful to watch. However the writing is simply atrocious.
There were some awesome visuals.
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Disney better hope the rumors about the new movie are fake. 6 edits that all had horrible screen tests and supposed massive reshoots to fix it. They better hope that is false with the release date so close.
Disney better hope the rumors about the new movie are fake. 6 edits that all had horrible screen tests and supposed massive reshoots to fix it. They better hope that is false with the release date so close.
Its amazing how many sites ran with information from an unreliable source then passed it off as legitimate. The reshoots were always planned to be redone due to issues with the original shots not being good quality or to the satisfaction of the director. If there were any reshoots due to poor fan reactions on screen tests, they should have done complete new shoots and not retakes of what was already done. The work done was nothing new and it was at the request of the director JJ Abrahams who wanted better quality that what was originally shot. This happened in both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and its not an all uncommon thing for high profile movies and or movies with big budgets. What people fail to understand is reshoots are literally planned into most production costs prior to the movie even shooting, especially when dealing with big budget films.
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Star wars is about the fight between evil dominating empires, rebels and the force. And that encompasses much more than just one family.
Regardless what it will make, I hope it's a good story. The trailer looks promising (Dark Rey and all) but we all know they're not going to make creative and risky story choices, especially with JJ Abrams at the helm who isn't really a good writer/artist, just a technocrat producing big effect films. I'd love them to prove me wrong though and blow my mind with a twist like Ben Solo being the actual Hero that ends up killing Rey who becomes a literal Dark Side demon and Darth Maul 2.0, leaping around doing somesaults whilst flinging her two bladed red saber around lol.
I've always liked Disney in the past. But think about it. The fact that Disney renewed the deal with EA should've been a giveaway that the company is not being run by people who know anything about their own industry. Disney could've easily had 20 or 30 Star Wars games out now in multiple genres. They could've have made a huge amount of Marvel games too. They've fired all the talented people they used to have, and replaced them with minimum-wage temp-workers from overseas who don't get their visas renews unless they work hard. They're just trying to make as much money every quarter as they can, to grab more investor money.
It's a strategy that works for a little while, but the company starts to lose talent as the best people leave, while the people with less-impressive resumes can't find new jobs as easily. That's why the new movies aren't the best. They could've picked Steven Spielberg, or James Cameron, or Christopher Nolan, or Quentin Tarantino, or Joss Whedon. But no, let's pick the guy who directed "the Evil Demon Golfball from Hell". Cheap director. Cheap writers. Cheap crew. The old-movie actors are expensive so they have short scenes. The actors for the new characters are in development-hell with a toxic work environment. (You'd expect actors to be pampered, not bullied on set). It's unlikely Disney can get the old and new actors to come back for future movies. That's why you're going to get the Mandalorian and animated shows.
Eventually the company will lose the capability to release products on-time and the investors will flee. This is why they're investing in a streaming service. Streaming will allow them to survive on their past glories, even after their production-quality crashes.
Eventually a more-productive streaming-service, like Amazon or Hulu, will buy them.
But once it does, this franchise has tremendous potential.
Once upon a time....
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/disney-tencent-china-literature-partner-114059057.html
Wonder how the folks that are boycotting Blizzard feel about this one?
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Like "Hey remember when Star Wars had cool villains and heroes?!"
The worst part about TLJ is how badly people defend it. Forget the SJW stuff. As a movie it was simply horrible. 1/3 of the movie (number pulled from my ass) involves a side-story with Finn and Rose going to a pleasure planet to try and find some secret mcguffin. They end up not finding it and the entire part of the movie could be cut out without affecting the ending whatsoever. We also have "Space Leia Poppins", and then what to me was the stake through the heart... apparently you can just go to hyperspeed, go through massive ships and blow them up. So all those battles around the Deathstar(s), Hoth, even that Starkiller Base... all pointless as they just needed a few autopiloted ships to hyperspace through them.
Yet instead of just acknowledging the movie was BAAAAAAD... people, including Disney defended it to the end. The problem in their minds was the audience, not the movie. And that just gets insulting. When you insult your loyal fanbase, it's not gonna end well.
So I think there is hope for Star Wars... eventually... but Disney needs to take off the blinders (if they are really even there.. note despite all the talk now Rian Johnson's trilogy was silently put into carbonite).
Eventually, there will be another big SW MMORPG. It's just too perfect of an IP for there not to be. But I think that will be many years down the road.
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Why should I capitulate to what you think is good or bad. Especially when, admitting that no movie is perfect, one can just go with the flow.
I liked the pleasure planet so it wasn't any skin off my nose. I liked seeing the characters in a different setting and working together.
I cringed at first about "space Leia Poppins" but then thought "the force." 'nuff said. People didn't cringe about lifting up a fighter with their mind. But having an energy that surrounds us, binds us, connects us only means a few very narrow things like lifting heavy objects or obfuscating people's minds. "Can't possibly do anything else, no sireebob!"
Maybe this will put it in perspective: I was talking about Star Wars with some friends some weeks ago and a friend of mine said he didn't like star wars AT ALL. Thought it was crap. Why? Because there was sound in space when things blew up. As soon as he witnessed that as a kid he washed his hands of the whole thing as ridiculous and never looked back.
Yet, I don't see you complaining about it. Or maybe you cringe but "just accept it." People defend the movie because they aren't you. Don't forget that.
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You liked the Finn and Rose stuff... OK.. it had zero to do with the main story arch and added nothing to the end. It literally could have been 100% cut from the film and the film would have had the same ending. It wasn't a 3 minutes sidebar, it was a huge chunk of the movie. Space Leia Poppins was just poorly done, and you never even addressed the "hyperspace a ship through a ship" concept which utterly destroyed all the prior space battles.
As I stated above... despite the outward words from Disney... it appears that THEY truly understand that. They have quietly stopped work on Rian Johnson's proposed trilogy which HE just confirmed. They are hyping The Emperor and Lando as keystones of the new movie. They are obviously going to make Rey related to the Emperor (or much less chance, some Jedi of old). It's a blatant effort to get back fans of the original trilogy. Those exact same fans that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy put down.
Don't look at what Disney SAYS... look at what they DO.
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I had no problem with the hyper space jump thing. I'm not even clear what the issue is. They jumped to hyper space and in a split second materialized. I seem to recall in the first movie they said that if the millenium falcon jump wasn't planned well they could materialize in a star. So they instead used that same idea to materialize in a ship on purpose.
wtf is the problem? With a fictional "science device" no less. No one seems to be kvetching about what that does to a human body. But then "not important."
Obi Wan Kenobi had his body vanish. VANISH! yet no one cries over that. Leia is just protected by the ravages of space and is able to use the force to move her body through "space." Awesome! The force does more than lift luggage!
I take the movies as they come. If they want to change things fine. If they want to change them again then "fine." As long as I'm enjoying myself and can accept what they do in the moment I'm good. Because "again" these are fantasy yarns about adventurers in space. They aren't much more than that yet some fans need them to be.
That's why when I see the kids in the theater going nuts with joy I realize that all is right with the world.
Well, accept those like my friend who can't accept the sound in space thing. Which again, doesn't seem to bother you (?)
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The point, as I said a few times, is that they eliminated the need for ever having had huge space battles in the past. If this is all it takes to blow up huge things, then they just need drone ships to blow everything up. No need to fly into the Deathstar trenches... just have a ship fly through it.
As for sound. That is a valid criticism if talking about a hard sci-fi series. Same as the physics involved. Star Destroyers do not just "sink". But Star Wars is not a hard sci-fi series. It's a story and all we ask is to be consistent or at least not utterly invalidate the very heart of prior movies.
As for the "kids going nuts"... I was there at the first showing on opening day. Most kids, including my own.. were laughing at Space Mary Poppins or looking at each other with WTF on their faces. There is a reason very few people went back for a repeat viewing of the movie and this is borne out by the numbers. TLJ sold 40% fewer tickets in the US than TFA. So there may have in fact been "kids going nuts", but a lot fewer than TFA...
Then couple that with the FACT that Disney has put Rian Johnson's trilogy into hibernation and it's not subjective "feelings" but actual numbers that support what I am saying.
Also, in case you need yet ANOTHER data point... Disney attendance is DOWN since they opened Star Wars Land... not even flat. It's so bad that their Parks President just stepped down.
https://insidethemagic.net/2019/09/disney-parks-president-steps-down-bb1/
One more piece of DATA since you mentioned Kids. The sales of Star Wars toys and related merchandise is down... down.. down... Again, actual data, not an anecdote about seeing some kids cheer.
Star Wars merchandise has been declining every year
In its 2018 Annual Financial Report, Disney reported revenue for their Consumer Products division was down 4% from 2018 to 2017, and down almost 16% from 2018 to 2016, which includes Star Wars and Marvel Comics and products.
The numbers are a bit skewed now as Disney has since combined how they report on their Consumer Products division as they have paired it with their Parks division, essentially hiding the losses and making as it appear as if both divisions have seen increases in revenue. What is really happening is that the Parks division numbers have been offsetting the lower numbers from Consumer Products.
It should be said that today's report mentions their Consumer Products division is on the up and up due to Toy Story 4 merchandise, but again, the numbers are not as good due to a decline in Star War merchandising sales.
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Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Part of the reason why I buy most of the things I like. Eventually someone is going to want me to "subscribe" or I lose access to them. Or their "agreements with their content providers" will change and suddenly I won't be able to see "Blood Mania" or "Vampire's Kiss" (or any of our "bad movie night" movies) and have to wait to see if it ever comes back. And if it doesn't? Then where will I be?!?!?!?
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But that is also followed (as I edited to add) with a decrease in toy and merchandise sales as well.
As for Disney prices.. I have been to DisneyWorld countless times. Literally.. I have lost track as I moved to Florida in 2007 and the first thing we did was buy passes. We stopped a few years back when we realized we could get passes to Universal AND Seaworld for less money. Plus the fact that Disney was pretty bad about adding new rides until the last year or so. But regardless of that, Star Wars used to be a massive draw on it's own. I was at Star Wars Celebration when the TLJ trailer launched. There were people who slept in the convention center on concrete floors and then a trail of people outside for literally miles. Not figuratively. Literally. Those fans who flew to Orlando for the convention never showed up at the parks. At least not yet. Or not in significant enough numbers. So sure if taking just as one data point you can argue about pricing, but not in conjunction with all the others.
Star Wars fans were the most loyal, diehard fans that you could find. Not any longer. Or at least, not in the same numbers.
The proof is in the data.
If Iger was really happy they would have been pushing out Rian Johnson's promised trilogy faster than you can say Force Ghost... but that hasn't happened and it's not because he isn't available. He has said he will now need to look for another film to direct since his calendar is open. It's because Iger, despite what he says publicly, also knows they need to course correct. And part of that is bringing back the other Original Characters. Part of that is canceling Rian's film (or putting them in carbonite for now). Part of that are the actual discount emails I get from DisneyWorld and how they opened up blackout dates.
Disney is not done. Star Wars is not done. A lot for both will hinge on The Mandalorian. I think a real, back to basics hit will help both.
Again, there is NO IP in the world better suited to the MMORPG world than Star Wars. It will rise again. Just not right now.
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I mean, why not just "beam" or "send" the death star plans to the rebel base using encrypted data and, say, their version of a false IP address? Were you alive back then? I was. It was a very different world. I distinctly remember a life without atm's, internet, remote controls, cable, no dvd's or cd's just records, some of them being 78's and believe it or not reel to reel tapes.
That's the problem, people can't keep things in perspective and it's wayyyy to dorky. It's too much of this:
I should add, as far as their ride, I can't rightly say why it's not popular except that I KNOW of several people actually waiting for it to be done. My girlfriend being one of them. Why would I spend money on going there for a partial experience when I can wait for a full one?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There is a lot of data and it all points in one direction.
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TLJ ticket sales down 40% vs TFA
Star Wars Convention attendance down from the one before TLJ to the one before Ep9
Star Wars Merchandise down
Attendance at Disney down despite the opening of Star Wars land
Disney Parks President resigning
Iger has put the Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy on hold
You can take one by itself and argue, but it is across the board.
Can they turn it around? As I said... absolutely. And the steps that Iger/Disney are taking are attempts to do that. There is a reason that they are bringing back The Emperor and Lando and burying Rian's trilogy... Will it be enough? We will see.
My hopes are really more on The Mandalorian than on Episode 9.
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However the writing is simply atrocious.
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