You do realize that guilds come with their own sense of politics and drama queens?
Which is not overstating the point that I play MMOs to relax and enjoy, and being a part of others arrogance, tender insecurities, immaturity, ignorance, and other foibles is not required as part of my gaming experience.
I think you just need to find the right guild they are out there, more mature ones that sometimes even sometimes talk about no drama queens in their opening blurb.
Virtually agree with everything else you said, it is the changing formulation of the MMO template to gather as many players as possible for the mass market that takes us to where we are. Beyond the roleplayers, beyond the multiplayers, beyond the solo players, beyond the console players to now the smartphone players and how their expectations are effecting MMO's.
As to what Po_gg said, I agree with him about the new MMOs in fact what we do is play older MMOs that have changed, when I said it should now be: "Don't let the solo culture of a game which is supposed to be massively multiplayer get you down." I was thinbking about the changes made to older MMOs that makse them far more like the modern ones. But I would not cut anything new out, quite a fan of what ESO did. Blimy refering to ESO as if it was a new MMO.
Live and let live. If someone wants to solo, it's not hurting me.
Until you need to form a group
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Live and let live. If someone wants to solo, it's not hurting me.
Until you need to form a group
but that is the norm, see blade and soul, now some people can damage the boss dungeons enough to solo then or 2 man then, why you belive tehy would waste time on people if they can solo? and keep all goodies to then?
I'm pretty much a solo-only player. However, I absolutely can't stand single-player RPGs etc. I have to be playing a MMO. As a solo player, I enjoy being a part of the "living / breathing" virtual economy. It feels so much more real and authentic.
As a solo player, I enjoy being a part of the "living / breathing" virtual economy. It feels so much more real and authentic.
This is an important point you make. A solo player in a single player RPG eats what he or she kills. There is no economy.
But a solo player in a mmorpg benefits from all the buying and selling opportunities the market provides.
And by participating in the economy, in a sense the player is never entirely solo. They interact with others through the market. They just adventure solo.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
As a solo player, I enjoy being a part of the "living / breathing" virtual economy. It feels so much more real and authentic.
This is an important point you make. A solo player in a single player RPG eats what he or she kills. There is no economy.
But a solo player in a mmorpg benefits from all the buying and selling opportunities the market provides.
And by participating in the economy, in a sense the player is never entirely solo. They interact with others through the market. They just adventure solo.
I will accept you are interacting with a auction house, don't get scared now guys...Boo! But I bet the auction house never said that to you.
What I am getting at is unless you were buying/selling with a player preferably avatar to avatar "face to face" then I would not count interaction with the auction house as interacting with players. It does not have to be face to face though, a text or discord message would be fine.
You know me, that's still a tiny drop of what interaction could mean, but I will take it as a positive for sure.
An auction house is a game system, it isn't player-to-player interaction. At best, it's an indirect form of interaction. For all anyone knows, the "seller" in an auction house *might* be a clever bot.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
An auction house is a game system, it isn't player-to-player interaction. At best, it's an indirect form of interaction. For all anyone knows, the "seller" in an auction house *might* be a clever bot.
It could be a bot sure but there's also tons of indirect interaction with other people as well. That's my thing. I like that there are other people around me and I'm indirectly interacting with them in others ways without having to socialize or group with people i don't know.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
Well, to be fair, dungeons never change without an update, which is rare.
That's why I want to see wandering MOBs, AI, and what I called "Dungeon AI" which is really AI that's lent to the MOB AI when they wander into and take over a dungeon. This would allow dungeons to change over time. Including what's in the dungeon as far as what the new MOB destroys of the old MOB AI and creates (builds) of their own. Including traps and hidey-holes, treasure rooms, storage, etc.
I want to see things change that cause players to think, and interact both in the dungeons and when they talk outside of them.
Of course, such a game would be more expensive to make and probably cost more to play. But to me, it would be worth it.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
Well, to be fair, dungeons never change without an update, which is rare.
That's why I want to see wandering MOBs, AI, and what I called "Dungeon AI" which is really AI that's lent to the MOB AI when they wander into and take over a dungeon. This would allow dungeons to change over time. Including what's in the dungeon as far as what the new MOB destroys of the old MOB AI and creates (builds) of their own. Including traps and hidey-holes, treasure rooms, storage, etc.
I want to see things change that cause players to think, and interact both in the dungeons and when they talk outside of them.
Of course, such a game would be more expensive to make and probably cost more to play. But to me, it would be worth it.
By the way, this is yet another idea for a better game world that doesn't work in a game with large Power Gaps.
And why bother playing mmorpg if you solo 100% of the time.
Edit: I understand there are multiple post of "why play mmorpg if you solo" already. I'm just confused when people ask that question because even though I play mmorpg solo, I still want to group time to time.
MMO just means it creates the environment to play with others in meeting goals, but otherwise its an area where multiple people can play the same game at the same time. Your definition of what an MMO is, is flawed in definition. You have the option to join others or not.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
<snip>
Let me adjust that a bit. An auction house is a game system used to indirectly buy and sell items that can also facilitate communications. With an auction house, there is no guarantee that both players will be online at the same time to facilitate direct person-to-person communication. If you are using a mail function instead of a /tell function, that is person-to-system, then system-to-person, an indirect communication operation.
----------
Let's not get into the fact that most games model mail order houses and call them 'auction' houses. I'd really love to see both live and blind auctions in the same game. A good live auction could be considered a form of benign PvP function. (And quite likely to stimulate additional no-holds-barred PvP activity in those types of games).
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
Well, to be fair, dungeons never change without an update, which is rare.
That's why I want to see wandering MOBs, AI, and what I called "Dungeon AI" which is really AI that's lent to the MOB AI when they wander into and take over a dungeon. This would allow dungeons to change over time. Including what's in the dungeon as far as what the new MOB destroys of the old MOB AI and creates (builds) of their own. Including traps and hidey-holes, treasure rooms, storage, etc.
I want to see things change that cause players to think, and interact both in the dungeons and when they talk outside of them.
Of course, such a game would be more expensive to make and probably cost more to play. But to me, it would be worth it.
By the way, this is yet another idea for a better game world that doesn't work in a game with large Power Gaps.
And a significant step towards dynamic content.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
Well, to be fair, dungeons never change without an update, which is rare.
That's why I want to see wandering MOBs, AI, and what I called "Dungeon AI" which is really AI that's lent to the MOB AI when they wander into and take over a dungeon. This would allow dungeons to change over time. Including what's in the dungeon as far as what the new MOB destroys of the old MOB AI and creates (builds) of their own. Including traps and hidey-holes, treasure rooms, storage, etc.
I want to see things change that cause players to think, and interact both in the dungeons and when they talk outside of them.
Of course, such a game would be more expensive to make and probably cost more to play. But to me, it would be worth it.
By the way, this is yet another idea for a better game world that doesn't work in a game with large Power Gaps.
And a significant step towards dynamic content.
Yes, imagine that, a game world with no "End Game." This dynamism can be expanded on, too. Think of systems to create new quests and events based off of a "living world" such as this. A basic example, with Wandering MOBs and MOB growth you can have parts of the nearby areas under attacks issuing from such places. This could create events, a "war", created by a player run city. Or even created by an NPC group affected by the circumstance through a call for help sent out throughout the world.
An auction house is a game system utilized by players to buy from and sell to one another (which is a form of communication). It is part of the game world. For some players, who get their fun from "playing" the auction house, it is the most important feature in the game world.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
Come over to the dark side Amathe, interact and don't be afraid!
Did anyone actually say people were afraid to interact, you can't be referring to my Boo surely? If I can't wind up posters I know on here what are we coming to?
Players have their own preferences to how they want to play, that's all there is to it. You are right about what has happened to grouping but that was predicable, if you cater only to solo apart from end game the quality of grouping in all aspects will go down.
If you are contacting players due to using the auction house that is interaction for sure. I was never a big one for auction houses mostly just left it to guild mates. In some more recent games though you do trade more than others, even I used the AH a lot.
I recall meeting a player in an EVE mining chat channel who had been continuously subscribed since launch with a couple of accounts.
He had done nothing else but solo mine in high sec for like 13 years except for a very brief time when he joined a Corp which he promptly quit after the first wardec.
Um.
I'm not sure if EVE counts in this regard ?
As with other aspects, EVE is very different from other MMOs.
For example you cannot really group as you can do in any fantasy MMO.
I wouldnt be too surprised if many players in EVE exclusively solo.
I played lotro with a raiding kin until everyone quit. I can still do all the exploration, quests, and pug instance runs. I just cannot raid.
I played FFXIV:ARR with a raiding guild until that game alos lost all but 2 of its members. I love the gathering aspect which is soloable. The raids and instance are all easily accessible through Group Finder. Only Extreme raids don't get queued that I have seen. This game is mostly solable through and through.
I recall meeting a player in an EVE mining chat channel who had been continuously subscribed since launch with a couple of accounts.
He had done nothing else but solo mine in high sec for like 13 years except for a very brief time when he joined a Corp which he promptly quit after the first wardec.
Um.
I'm not sure if EVE counts in this regard ?
As with other aspects, EVE is very different from other MMOs.
For example you cannot really group as you can do in any fantasy MMO.
I wouldnt be too surprised if many players in EVE exclusively solo.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying EVE lacks the grouping mechanics other fantasy MMORPGs have, can you elaborate further?
Well outside of a dungeon finder system, if so point taken but I don't feel such systems to be a pillar of MMORPGs, rather more of a bane which has done greater harm than good. *
* In reference to @Amathe 's WOW example of everyone grouping in dungeons but not actually interacting socially in any manner.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I recall meeting a player in an EVE mining chat channel who had been continuously subscribed since launch with a couple of accounts.
He had done nothing else but solo mine in high sec for like 13 years except for a very brief time when he joined a Corp which he promptly quit after the first wardec.
Um.
I'm not sure if EVE counts in this regard ?
As with other aspects, EVE is very different from other MMOs.
For example you cannot really group as you can do in any fantasy MMO.
I wouldnt be too surprised if many players in EVE exclusively solo.
Comments
Virtually agree with everything else you said, it is the changing formulation of the MMO template to gather as many players as possible for the mass market that takes us to where we are. Beyond the roleplayers, beyond the multiplayers, beyond the solo players, beyond the console players to now the smartphone players and how their expectations are effecting MMO's.
As to what Po_gg said, I agree with him about the new MMOs in fact what we do is play older MMOs that have changed, when I said it should now be: "Don't let the solo culture of a game which is supposed to be massively multiplayer get you down." I was thinbking about the changes made to older MMOs that makse them far more like the modern ones. But I would not cut anything new out, quite a fan of what ESO did. Blimy refering to ESO as if it was a new MMO.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But a solo player in a mmorpg benefits from all the buying and selling opportunities the market provides.
And by participating in the economy, in a sense the player is never entirely solo. They interact with others through the market. They just adventure solo.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
What I am getting at is unless you were buying/selling with a player preferably avatar to avatar "face to face" then I would not count interaction with the auction house as interacting with players. It does not have to be face to face though, a text or discord message would be fine.
You know me, that's still a tiny drop of what interaction could mean, but I will take it as a positive for sure.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
In addition, if you post something for sale at twice what I think it is worth, I'm going to send you a tell asking you to come down on the price. The point being the auction house stimulates communication.
And no, people are not "afraid" to group. So no need for snark. Some people just don't like to group. Or they don't like to group all the time. It's their choice to make.
By the way, "grouping" is not what it once was. These days I have been on tons of WoW dungeon runs "grouped," where no one said a WORD to anyone else. I'm not sure why that is so much different than (or preferable to) soloing.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
That's why I want to see wandering MOBs, AI, and what I called "Dungeon AI" which is really AI that's lent to the MOB AI when they wander into and take over a dungeon.
This would allow dungeons to change over time. Including what's in the dungeon as far as what the new MOB destroys of the old MOB AI and creates (builds) of their own. Including traps and hidey-holes, treasure rooms, storage, etc.
I want to see things change that cause players to think, and interact both in the dungeons and when they talk outside of them.
Of course, such a game would be more expensive to make and probably cost more to play. But to me, it would be worth it.
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This dynamism can be expanded on, too.
Think of systems to create new quests and events based off of a "living world" such as this.
A basic example, with Wandering MOBs and MOB growth you can have parts of the nearby areas under attacks issuing from such places. This could create events, a "war", created by a player run city. Or even created by an NPC group affected by the circumstance through a call for help sent out throughout the world.
Once upon a time....
Did anyone actually say people were afraid to interact, you can't be referring to my Boo surely? If I can't wind up posters I know on here what are we coming to?
Players have their own preferences to how they want to play, that's all there is to it. You are right about what has happened to grouping but that was predicable, if you cater only to solo apart from end game the quality of grouping in all aspects will go down.
If you are contacting players due to using the auction house that is interaction for sure. I was never a big one for auction houses mostly just left it to guild mates. In some more recent games though you do trade more than others, even I used the AH a lot.
I played FFXIV:ARR with a raiding guild until that game alos lost all but 2 of its members. I love the gathering aspect which is soloable. The raids and instance are all easily accessible through Group Finder. Only Extreme raids don't get queued that I have seen. This game is mostly solable through and through.
Well outside of a dungeon finder system, if so point taken but I don't feel such systems to be a pillar of MMORPGs, rather more of a bane which has done greater harm than good. *
* In reference to @Amathe 's WOW example of everyone grouping in dungeons but not actually interacting socially in any manner.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon