Are Star Citizen's Backers Actually Deluded?

MaxBacon · December 2019

mbrodie said:
Oh, so the game is open source?

Or you are just taking their word for it?

Edit - Sorry, i know this is a late addition but i wanted to elaborate.

My point is, you don't know any of this as fact, you know it as what they have told you and it's your choice to believe them or not. Time and time again developers have told us this this and this is happening and it never happened. There is no reason to believe this is any different just because they said it is.

But again, your choice

If you'd want to feed a sort of conspiracy this stuff ain't real, then it's as easy as see what they talk about released in-game. When OCS released the streaming tech the game faced huge performance improvements because it was properly streaming in and out areas on-demand, server-side OCS is the one on the build currently on testing that is releasing soon that does this same thing but on the server-side.

That specific example would be underlying tech, you don't see it but you see the impact it has on the game, the rest is far more visible after released, be that the tech behind characters, physics, procedural stuff, etc...

mbrodie · December 2019

MaxBacon said:

mbrodie said:
Oh, so the game is open source?

Or you are just taking their word for it?

Edit - Sorry, i know this is a late addition but i wanted to elaborate.

My point is, you don't know any of this as fact, you know it as what they have told you and it's your choice to believe them or not. Time and time again developers have told us this this and this is happening and it never happened. There is no reason to believe this is any different just because they said it is.

But again, your choice

If you'd want to feed a sort of conspiracy this stuff ain't real, then it's as easy as see what they talk about released in-game. When OCS released the streaming tech the game faced huge performance improvements because it was properly streaming in and out areas on-demand, server-side OCS is the one on the build currently on testing that is releasing soon that does this same thing but on the server-side.

That specific example would be underlying tech, you don't see it but you see the impact it has on the game, the rest is far more visible after released, be that the tech behind characters, physics, procedural stuff, etc...

What Conspiracy theory... Stop trying to turn it something into it isnt.

The fact is, until it's real and tangible it's just talk. the streaming as you said has been delivered you can see it in action it's tangible not just talk.

MaxBacon · December 2019

mbrodie said:

MaxBacon said:

mbrodie said:
Oh, so the game is open source?

Or you are just taking their word for it?

Edit - Sorry, i know this is a late addition but i wanted to elaborate.

My point is, you don't know any of this as fact, you know it as what they have told you and it's your choice to believe them or not. Time and time again developers have told us this this and this is happening and it never happened. There is no reason to believe this is any different just because they said it is.

But again, your choice

If you'd want to feed a sort of conspiracy this stuff ain't real, then it's as easy as see what they talk about released in-game. When OCS released the streaming tech the game faced huge performance improvements because it was properly streaming in and out areas on-demand, server-side OCS is the one on the build currently on testing that is releasing soon that does this same thing but on the server-side.

That specific example would be underlying tech, you don't see it but you see the impact it has on the game, the rest is far more visible after released, be that the tech behind characters, physics, procedural stuff, etc...

What Conspiracy theory... Stop trying to turn it something into it isnt.

The fact is, until it's real and tangible it's just talk. the streaming as you said has been delivered you can see it in action it's tangible not just talk.

Oh theories are 101 SC forum discussions on past years, but as far this sort of things go the progress and dev reports are quite detailed showcasing what is going on tech dev. We do ofc tend to see it before it is implemented as part of the studio reports, then indeed the game validates that afterward.

Enfeeble101 · December 2019

I've been lurking for years just want to point out a few things:

The White Knight player's are some of the most vile people i've seen online. You will kill another game if you continue on this path of cgi can do no wrong. there are lot's of examples of this happening in other games.

the "trolls" are using logical conclusions to form a 'debate' (obviously not all of them) when you replay with corporate speech that is obviously qouted from some dev, your not coming off as intelligent, but as a corporate shill.

Don't get me wrong Mr. Knight, this isn't meant to demean you. It's to show you that your scaring away player's with your negativity.

Back to lurking, Good luck with your game.

Babuinix · December 2019

Kefo said:

I’ve been calling the project out for what it is for years. Do I want it to fail? No since it would probably set back crowd funding and the space genre but do I think it will fail? Yes simply because Chris Roberts is behind the wheel and he has never successfully delivered a video game while he has been the man on top.

I call people liars when they say it’s right around the corner 4 years ago or things like they’ve just completed a play through of all the missions and it just needs polish and then it comes out a few months later most of the missions still don’t exist.

People can be wrong but to defend CI when there is so much evidence pointing to either the company being full of liars or incompetent devs is laughable.

Also please don’t compare scientists to CI as that is an insult to science. Please point out where I have ever said I love Braben? I can hear your joints cracking cause you’re reaching so hard with that one.

Yeah so did uncle derek smart lol Obsessing harder won't make any of your claims come true you know... just like they failed way back in 2015 they failed last year and this year too. And as the development progresses and the game gets more and more fleshed out the more deluded and bitter the haters get so I guess the best is yet to come!

DKLond · December 2019

mbrodie said:

DKLond said:

sgel said:

DKLond said:

I fully expect most gamers to be smart enough to enjoy a great game more than remaining ignorant about it.

I like how the options are ignorance or enjoyment. As if you can't possibly have played the game and not like it.

You do realize that most of the people criticizing it have actually played it right?
I backed it years ago but I find the gameplay incredibly uninspiring and boring... and I've spent hundreds of hours in ED, Factorio, camping gates in EvE and other "boring" gaming endeavors.

I don't give a damn about their pompous talk about "new" technology and groundbreaking marketing gimmicks when the gameplay is utterly banal.

Maybe one day they'll realize that they need to add interesting gameplay and then maybe more than a fraction of their playerbase will actually want to play it.
I'd love to actually take advantage of my purchase and have an enjoyable experience... instead of just sitting it out and warming my hands on this crowdfunded dumpster fire.

No, I don't realise that "most people" who criticize the game have actually played it.

Probably because I don't know all of them - and have no way of knowing for sure.

Anyone claiming to know this for a fact can only be a liar, and liars aren't reliable for useful information, in my experience.

As for "interesting gameplay" - I agree that only people into this kind of game need apply.

But, I have no problem believing that if you are, indeed, into space games like Privateer or Freelancer - then you're very, very likely to enjoy Star Citizen when it's finished.

Will there be exceptions? Sure.

Right now, the game is far, far from finished - and commenting on the gameplay as if it's anything even remotely like it will be - is useless, and is just another sign of ignorance.

yeah...

it's pre alpha guys it'll get better.....
it's alpha guys it's not finished yet, it'll get better....
it's beta guys there is still time for changes...

gameplay should be the foundation a game is built on, if it's not fun and they aren't developing it with that in mind why would you expect it to get better by launch.

You make it sound like it's hard for anyone with an opinion to have previously played the game also, when with all the free fly events that have happened anyone at this point could have in fact played it and it's more reasonable to assume that more people have tried it than not.

but thats ok, i hope the game is everything you hope it will be if it ever releases.

If you think gameplay is a foundation that's in place in the average alpha - then I'm afraid you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You can ask pretty much any established developer out there, and you will learn that the vast majority of games only truly come together in terms of gameplay during the very last crunch phase.

So, yeah, it's not a mystery why so many ignorant detractors hold such opinions - when they're uninformed about game development on this level.

Again, it's a matter of how much you understand about game development, correlated with what Star Citizen is actually trying to do - and how much work is involved.

DKLond · December 2019

MaxBacon said:

DKLond said:

MaxBacon said:

DKLond said:
Hehe, thanks.

That said, you can argue that what a car is doing isn't terribly complicated either, but you kinda need to put things into context.

What Star Citizen is doing isn't necessarily a "technical marvel" - because each advanced feature is based on relatively straight-forward principles.

Even so - and regardless of how "trivial" all these features are - there's not a single other game in existence right now - or in the immediate future - that combines this level of fidelity and sophistication in a single game.

That's enough for me

To me it's really all the technology they merge together to achieve entirely different types of gameplay seamlessly, but pushing the quality of all aspects of it not just the visuals and animations but the simulation involved, over that they put an MMO setup on a game of this complexity what makes it even harder to achieve, but at the end the experience is unique. And hell there are people who want just that, it's annoying that the prospects of something like this still fall on SC even after half a decade.

Oh, I agree that pushing it all to this level is a big part of what's so cool about it.

As for prospects, I'm not sure what you mean?

I mean games in dev, SC is still just SC as far what it's doing goes, and pretty much is explained on this video as well on the discussions he refers having with backers.

That's true.

You can go back and check the early Tony Z interviews - or the 10 for the Chairman episodes - and you'll find what's pretty much a 1:1 vision of exactly what they've accomplished with recent patches.

Recently, I watched a video of CR talking about how system jumps would work, and I think it was from 2013. It was an extremely accurate explanation of exactly how the CitCon 2019 demonstration worked.

He talked about riding the waves as if you were surfing - with you having to keep on track, or you might end up heavily damaged or in a very remote place. He also described "wave-like" cool space visuals - which is precisely what we finally got to see, 6 years later.

So, all these myths about endless feature creep are just that, myths.

The reason it seems like feature creep to the ignorant, is that we're only now starting to see so much of the original promises. It's been planned all along.

Again, this is true for the PU simulation, as demonstrated by Tony Z.

It's exactly what he said it would be - and now it's obviously in a state that's ready to show.

It was probably the most convincing proof of SC doing what it originally promised to do - at least so far.

DKLond · December 2019

Anyway, it's been fun.

It's really amusing to see the same detractors still spouting the same ignorant disaster scenarios - over and over again.

The closer we get to release, the more passionate I expect the negativity to be.

That's how denial works - because, as we all know, being wrong about computer games on the Internet is worse than death.

I'll be back in while - when Star Citizen is even closer to release, and I'll have some more fun, watching people scramble to pretend it's not extremely impressive

Maybe when the gameplay is more polished and in a less clunky state? Then there's a whole new level of denial to be had

Have fun all!

rpmcmurphy · December 2019

DKLond said:

If you think gameplay is a foundation that's in place in the average alpha - then I'm afraid you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

You can ask pretty much any established developer out there, and you will learn that the vast majority of games only truly come together in terms of gameplay during the very last crunch phase.

So, yeah, it's not a mystery why so many ignorant detractors hold such opinions - when they're uninformed about game development on this level.

Again, it's a matter of how much you understand about game development, correlated with what Star Citizen is actually trying to do - and how much work is involved.

He's not actually not wrong in this example.

Let's take Elite's alpha as another example. It started with a basic set of missions to test out the flight model and whether combat was fun because those 2 gameplay elements are the central pillars for a space game. From there they moved to adding more gameplay elements, docking in stations, pvp, trade etc and iterated on them.

All these things are iterative and this is something CIG talk about a lot with their tier 0 references. If you're iterating on gameplay during an alpha then gameplay is a foundation.

Perhaps everything does not come together in a fully cohesive manner until later on but that doesn't rebut the claim that it's foundational.

Gdemami · December 2019

skadad said:

same 3-4 white knights vs same 3-4 realists.

Realists...?

rpmcmurphy or kefo are as extreme in their agendas as are MaxBacon or DKLond - both groups being equally ridiculous, just members of opposite end of the spectrum.

The ones that are truly realists are those who don't comment on development much because there is very little data for an outsider to make any sensible conclusions.

Crowdfunding's greatest selling point is also it's weakest spot. It is based on 'illusion' of open development which isn't bad in itself but you will inevitably get people who are unable to work with provided information, take it at face value and fabricate lots of crap(delusion) based on their lack of self-awareness, in either way.

Betaguy · December 2019

100% . They are baboons getting soaked and fleeced.

Erillion · December 2019

Betaguy said:

100% . They are baboons getting soaked and fleeced.

But like it. Which is the most important thing. ;-)

After all, we play computer games, even Alphas, to have fun.

Have fun

bwwianakiev · December 2019

Utinni said:

Gdemami said:

rpmcmurphy said:

If you're spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on in game pixels what else can you call it?

...wealthy.

Most whales in video games aren't wealthy. That's why its a problem. It's predatory towards lower incomes just like gambling, nicotine, drugs.

That's mobile for sure. You need to have an expensive rig to even launch the game.

Babuinix · December 2019

Betaguy said:

100% . They are baboons getting soaked and fleeced.

Such insight, much prediction

Betaguy said:
I grew up on Nintendo had most their products at one time but unfortunately the game line ups are really bad and childish. This system looks like a nuisance and paper weight like my Wii U has become.

Erillion · December 2019

bwwianakiev said:

That's mobile for sure. You need to have an expensive rig to even launch the game.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/telemetry

No you don't (click on the grafic to get details on the rigs currently used by Star Citizen Alpha players "in the wild"). But it helps. I strongly recommend an SSD.

Have fun

Mendel · December 2019

I've decided that this game will be too expensive for me if it ever finishes. I'd rather spend my money on the personal jet pack or flying car that was previously argued over (can't really call it a debate without the ghost of an old debate team teacher haunting me).

I played Wing Commander, and had no enjoyment from a space sim. I have no interest in another game built around the core concept of WWII dogfights in space. (No air, no aerodynamics. Physics doesn't work that way).

Kefo · December 2019

Babuinix said:

Kefo said:

I’ve been calling the project out for what it is for years. Do I want it to fail? No since it would probably set back crowd funding and the space genre but do I think it will fail? Yes simply because Chris Roberts is behind the wheel and he has never successfully delivered a video game while he has been the man on top.

I call people liars when they say it’s right around the corner 4 years ago or things like they’ve just completed a play through of all the missions and it just needs polish and then it comes out a few months later most of the missions still don’t exist.

People can be wrong but to defend CI when there is so much evidence pointing to either the company being full of liars or incompetent devs is laughable.

Also please don’t compare scientists to CI as that is an insult to science. Please point out where I have ever said I love Braben? I can hear your joints cracking cause you’re reaching so hard with that one.

Yeah so did uncle derek smart lol Obsessing harder won't make any of your claims come true you know... just like they failed way back in 2015 they failed last year and this year too. And as the development progresses and the game gets more and more fleshed out the more deluded and bitter the haters get so I guess the best is yet to come!

Why are you mentioning Derek smart? No one seems to bring him up but you. You seem to cling to his name like a child does a blanket as you only invoke him when you think it will win an argument for you(hint it won’t)

Hows Squadron 42 coming along? You must be in your fifth play through by now since it released back in 2015 since CI was pushing it so hard with answer the call.

Kefo · December 2019

Gdemami said:

skadad said:

same 3-4 white knights vs same 3-4 realists.

Realists...?

rpmcmurphy or kefo are as extreme in their agendas as are MaxBacon or DKLond - both groups being equally ridiculous, just members of opposite end of the spectrum.

The ones that are truly realists are those who don't comment on development much because there is very little data for an outsider to make any sensible conclusions.

Crowdfunding's greatest selling point is also it's weakest spot. It is based on 'illusion' of open development which isn't bad in itself but you will inevitably get people who are unable to work with provided information, take it at face value and fabricate lots of crap(delusion) based on their lack of self-awareness, in either way.

You mean calling out the white knights when they spout company lines and then attack and demean anyone critical of the game?

Have I been wrong? Yeah of course I have been. If a feature releases for this game I drop it since it got released and only bring it up again when the knights use it as some kind of twisted selling point ignoring the fact that they(CI) could have been late by years of their initial hype session.

NorseGod · December 2019

Kefo said:

Gdemami said:

skadad said:

Have I been wrong? Yeah of course I have been.

If we were wrong, their propaganda would be unnecessary.

Kefo · December 2019

NorseGod said:

Kefo said:

Gdemami said:

skadad said:

Have I been wrong? Yeah of course I have been.

If we were wrong, their propaganda would be unnecessary.

It’s possible to be wrong about aspects of the game but the most white of the white knights can’t accept that there are things wrong with the game and will do anything possible to discredit what you have said up to and including attempted character assassination

MaxBacon · December 2019

Kefo said:

NorseGod said:

Kefo said:

Gdemami said:

skadad said:

Have I been wrong? Yeah of course I have been.

If we were wrong, their propaganda would be unnecessary.

It’s possible to be wrong about aspects of the game but the most white of the white knights can’t accept that there are things wrong with the game and will do anything possible to discredit what you have said up to and including attempted character assassination

Sadly the negative-nancy (and even troll) obsession of some posters about everything SC related, having a post history of negativity, negativity & more negativity, you are not really up to discuss to have reasonable discussions about "what's wrong with the game" with posters focused on putting a negative spin on everything.

In short, there is no pretending with the same good ol' posters that you are not talking with someone with an established bias that in multiple cases has no interest in a discussion more than ranting or baiting the fans with hyperbole. End of the day against posters like eg NorseGod and so, there will never, ever, exist a reasonable discussion.

Especially when obsessing with freaking beaten dead horses, yes we know SC is delayed but here we are daily in circles then when called out for this the problem are the evil SC fans, this stuff seriously xD

Kefo · December 2019

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

NorseGod said:

Kefo said:

Gdemami said:

skadad said:

Have I been wrong? Yeah of course I have been.

If we were wrong, their propaganda would be unnecessary.

It’s possible to be wrong about aspects of the game but the most white of the white knights can’t accept that there are things wrong with the game and will do anything possible to discredit what you have said up to and including attempted character assassination

Sadly the negative-nancy (and even troll) obsession of some posters about everything SC related, having a post history of negativity, negativity & more negativity, you are not really up to discuss to have reasonable discussions about "what's wrong with the game" with posters focused on putting a negative spin on everything.

In short, there is no pretending with the same good ol' posters that you are not talking with someone with an established bias that in multiple cases has no interest in a discussion more than ranting or baiting the fans with hyperbole. End of the day against posters like eg NorseGod and so, there will never, ever, exist a reasonable discussion.

Especially when obsessing with freaking beaten dead horses, yes we know SC is delayed but here we are daily in circles then when called out for this the problem are the evil SC fans, this stuff seriously xD

There are people on both side and if you(anyone not just you) refuse to acknowledge that then unfortunately your head is buried in the sand.

The game doesn’t need the white knights to defend its honour. It should be able to stand up on its own merits and unfortunately most of the claims the fans make don’t match up with the reality of the game and that’s where the issues come forth

rpmcmurphy · December 2019

Gdemami said:
Realists...?
rpmcmurphy or kefo are as extreme in their agendas as are MaxBacon or DKLond - both groups being equally ridiculous, just members of opposite end of the spectrum.

Yah bollocks, that's just your bias towards people on display.

I wouldn't say I am extreme, persistent maybe. Calling out bullshit is no bad thing compared to whiteknighting. It's not like I (or Kefo for that matter) make up lies about the project just to put it down.

Gdemami said:

The ones that are truly realists are those who don't comment on development much because there is very little data for an outsider to make any sensible conclusions.

Lol. This is just such a blanket statement, there is plenty of data out there for looking at certain aspects of the project.

Gdemami · December 2019

rpmcmurphy said:
Lol. This is just such a blanket statement, there is plenty of data out there for looking at certain aspects of the project.

...yup, because you played lots of video games makes you a developement expert - because that is plenty of data.

Thanks for demonstrating my point so well.

Gdemami said:
Crowdfunding's greatest selling point is also it's weakest spot. It is based on 'illusion' of open development which isn't bad in itself but you will inevitably get people who are unable to work with provided information, take it at face value and fabricate lots of crap(delusion) based on their lack of self-awareness, in either way.

rpmcmurphy · December 2019

Gdemami said:

rpmcmurphy said:
Lol. This is just such a blanket statement, there is plenty of data out there for looking at certain aspects of the project.

...yup, because you played lots of video games makes you a developement expert - because that is plenty of data.

Thanks for demonstrating my point so well.

Thanks for demonstrating your hyperbole, assumptions and ignorance.

I don't need to be a development expert to see fault with things. Just like I don't need to be a car mechanic to see my car isn't running properly, or that I don't need to be an electrician to see the upstairs ring main has an issue or I don't need to be a boxing coach to see that a boxer's game is lacking vs his opponent.

Get outta here with your ridiculous claims that you need to be an authority on something to be able to judge it.

Howdy, Stranger!

Are Star Citizen's Backers Actually Deluded?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Are Star Citizen's Backers Actually Deluded?

Comments