I have to laugh at all the younglings trashing the older generations like it something new. Hey, kid! FYI for ya! The '60s generation did the same thing to their parents, blaming them for all the ills of society, and yet they still grew up to be their parents. And the -exact- same thing is waiting for all of you in the future, when young people will attack your generation and blame you for everything wrong with the world. It's inevitable. It's been happening for as long as people have had children,
“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. … They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle 4th Century BC
And for those people who stomp their feet at about games being called mmorpg's when of course they aren't!: (same link as above)
“Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased … The ordinary spoken language has also steadily coarsened. People used to say ‘raise the carriage shafts’ or ‘trim the lamp wick,’ but people today say ‘raise it’ or ‘trim it.’ When they should say, ‘Let the men of the palace staff stand forth!’ they say, ‘Torches! Let’s have some light!’”
Tsurezuregusa (Essays in Idleness), Yoshida Kenkō 1330 – 1332
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I have to laugh at all the younglings trashing the older generations like it something new. Hey, kid! FYI for ya! The '60s generation did the same thing to their parents, blaming them for all the ills of society, and yet they still grew up to be their parents. And the -exact- same thing is waiting for all of you in the future, when young people will attack your generation and blame you for everything wrong with the world. It's inevitable. It's been happening for as long as people have had children, and while you can deny it all you want, there's no escaping your fate. So if you really think you're going to change the world, I hope you're just as successful as your parents were. Remember, they were also the generation of the Civil Rights movement. Can you you can live up to that instead of just whining about how they did you wrong? And wrapping all old people into the Boomer generation that stole your future is just as bad as describing all POC as criminals. It makes you just another bigot. DO BETTER.
Anyway, as for MMORPGs, they are dying because young people just don't have the patience for vanilla games as in the past. Things were new and exciting when MMORPGs first hit the scene. But, as someone pointed out previously, people are being increasingly pulled in many different directions by the entertainment choices available to them. So now vanilla MMOPRGs have to be modded with higher yields and quicker progression so that they aren't doing the same grind over and over, just to hold people's attention. Social interaction in games has been replaced by other media and endgame is just a target so a player can move on to the next big release.
This is the generation of the 10m match. Fortnite, PUBG, whatever. Anything longer or more involved than that runs the risk of losing a player's interest.
There are multiple 16-24 year olds in my Everquest guild on p99 teal. Not sure where your "young people just don't have the patience" info comes from but it's not based in any reality. Perhaps instead of making shit up you should take your own advice and "DO BETTER".
There are multiple 16-24 year olds in my Everquest guild on p99 teal. Not sure where your "young people just don't have the patience" info comes from but it's not based in any reality. Perhaps instead of making shit up you should take your own advice and "DO BETTER".
"multiple"
Hahaha
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose Freewill
For people defending the older generation of online gaming, it seems the
core was forced social interaction (lets not forget that it was
actually forced, not the willingness of the community).
I'm quite curious as to what people defending the current state of gaming think is good about it. I'm not trying to bait anyone by asking, just trying to gain as much perspective as I can. Right now, my current thought process in regards to people finding the current online gaming experience 'good' is because of the convenience level.
For people defending the older generation of online gaming, it seems the
core was forced social interaction (lets not forget that it was
actually forced, not the willingness of the community).
I'm quite curious as to what people defending the current state of gaming think is good about it. I'm not trying to bait anyone by asking, just trying to gain as much perspective as I can. Right now, my current thought process in regards to people finding the current online gaming experience 'good' is because of the convenience level.
"Forced interaction" created aspects in the game that were larger than the sum of it's parts. I know it's a cliche, but it created a community. It forced people to acknowledge that other entities in the game were actual people who picked a side to fight on and worked hard to level and gear up their characters. People you saw in the game a week, month or year later were actual people who you had to work with to advance. A favorable memory of a person you grouped with months ago stuck with you because you were forced to recognize that it was an actual person.
Today, other players are looked at as faceless entities one step up from a NPC as you progress through your massive online single player game.
For people defending the older generation of online gaming, it seems the
core was forced social interaction (lets not forget that it was
actually forced, not the willingness of the community).
I'm quite curious as to what people defending the current state of gaming think is good about it. I'm not trying to bait anyone by asking, just trying to gain as much perspective as I can. Right now, my current thought process in regards to people finding the current online gaming experience 'good' is because of the convenience level.
For me it was seen as more "Get along, or fail" you can solo, but you won't get very far (my starting MMO was DAoC). Add to that the numbers mattered more as there was less of us, and that no one cared (too much) about min/maxing, specs, gearscores, and things like LFG/R wasn;t even thought about (if you acted like a asshat, you got treated like a asshat!). Some modern things are great imo, but those are ease of life things like no mob tapping and shared ore nodes. Alas, most MMOs these days feel very lifeless (to me). I don't miss the grind though.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
Regardless theyre not gone but the quality is about as good and fun as phone games. I mean theyre not dead but like phone games they may as well be as far as anyone but casuals are concerned. Maybe "old geezers" just prefer games that dont hand out wins and gear like thats all the game is about. /shrug
And wrapping all old people into the Boomer generation that stole your future is just as bad as describing all POC as criminals. It makes you just another bigot. DO BETTER.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
^ @CanPanther Stopped reading here. Full stop actually. There is so much wrong with this statement. Please don't ever say this silly shit again in your life. Like ever.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I'm 32. I've played all the so-called "Classic MMORPGs" I didn't care for them mostly. some were okay. Your generation romanticizes it so much as if these games weren't broken, janky messes with horrible UI and terrible skill trees. I think you guys confuse the experience of playing online for the first time with the actual games being good. They were not good games. Average at best, the people playing made those games interesting at all. The social element was brand new. Dial-up was the rage.
I think your problem is that you haven't yet learned that many things are a product of their times.
Hate to say it, but you aren't old enough yet (apparently)
Not a diss, "older" people have already gone through that, have lived through the fantasies/expectations of their youth and realized that life is far more bitter/sweet than they realized.
Old games "were great" as a product of their times. They were fun as a product of their times.
Some things can stand the test of time and some "not so much."
I'm sure in 20 years the younger generation will look at the things you think are good and give the same speech.
Looking back at older "anything" and judging it with "current" eyes is just monday morning quarterbacking. It's easy to sit and judge something that had to fight to be created, had to deal with technology issues, had to go through the "what will this thing look like" when there wasn't much to go on.
The whole reason you enjoy the games you enjoy is because developers took those steps, broke new ground (yes NEW ground), were ambitious and had a vision.
But you will see in a certain amount of years what happens when the things you love are compared to a "new" time period and they can't stand up to things that haven't even been created yet because they weren't being made to be compared to such things.
They were just trying to be made in the first place!
Not saying you are wrong, there is a lot of truth here that I get. I understand what it's like to be an early adopter trying to get something off the ground.
What I don't get is why can't these games we have right now be great products of their time also? Why do these new MMO games have to be compared to games from 25 years ago at all?
Games like ESO, Destiny, FFXIV, Warframe, etc are taking things from the MMO past, building on it and making it work for a new generation of people. Why cant that be okay?
They are great products of their time.
Like I said, wait 20 years and you might look askance at what is being released and, of course, have opinions on how good it is.
In a few years, you will be the Boomer or whatever they will call it.
Runescape is still very popular. So maybe the old game you like just isn't popular.
I understand certain type of mmorpg get very small budget compare to a generic themepark game. But those games are out there and people just don't play them.
Yes old school MMOs are dead for good reasons, who want to camp a boss camp for hours, or farm some mob for weeks for just one drop you need, yes it was cool in the old days when MMO was new and you didn't know any better.
There is so many games out there you can try and play yes enjoy, It's hardly dead, so the thing is It's the old geezers mentality that is dead not the genre.
I believe you have underestimated MMO's. Here is a recent release on Steam:
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Same diff. "MMO" rolls off the tongue more easily, and is a better umbrella term as some games are FPS or RTS etc. Any other semantic elucidation has been vernacularly retconned and is frustratingly, elastically unspecific.
People started saying "MMO" to mean "MMORPG", then people started assigning meaning to the fact people were saying "MMO". I watched it happen. I will die on this hill.
Thanks 128(?) character twitter communication. Or is it just lazy people finding it so hard to type 3 more letters? Clarity trumps ease 100% of the time in communicating
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
im waiting for pantheon myself, mmo's are dead, MSPOG's (massive single player online games) however are flourishing, sadly team building and community arent a thing anymore as todays youths are brainwashed more and more that things like money and ego and personal achievement are all that matters, when really 99.9% of the earths population will never be remembered or recognized for those things but ya know keeping teaching your kids about monetary survival over natural survival.....the weak are meat the strong will eat.
"World of Warcraft Classic has been a big success to Activision Blizzard,
with the company revealing today that the retro release has driven
subscription numbers to their biggest quarterly increase in history."
That's right the MMORPG genre is so alive and well a 15 year old game is the biggest thing to happen in years.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
To the point:
https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/
4th Century B.C.E.
“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.
…
They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle
4th Century BC
And for those people who stomp their feet at about games being called mmorpg's when of course they aren't!:
(same link as above)
“Modern fashions seem to keep on growing more and more debased … The ordinary spoken language has also steadily coarsened. People used to say ‘raise the carriage shafts’ or ‘trim the lamp wick,’ but people today say ‘raise it’ or ‘trim it.’ When they should say, ‘Let the men of the palace staff stand forth!’ they say, ‘Torches! Let’s have some light!’”
Tsurezuregusa (Essays in Idleness), Yoshida Kenkō
1330 – 1332
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hahaha
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose Freewill
- Rush, Freewill (Album: Permanent Waves)
Today, other players are looked at as faceless entities one step up from a NPC as you progress through your massive online single player game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Add to that the numbers mattered more as there was less of us, and that no one cared (too much) about min/maxing, specs, gearscores, and things like LFG/R wasn;t even thought about (if you acted like a asshat, you got treated like a asshat!).
Some modern things are great imo, but those are ease of life things like no mob tapping and shared ore nodes. Alas, most MMOs these days feel very lifeless (to me).
I don't miss the grind though.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Regardless theyre not gone but the quality is about as good and fun as phone games. I mean theyre not dead but like phone games they may as well be as far as anyone but casuals are concerned. Maybe "old geezers" just prefer games that dont hand out wins and gear like thats all the game is about. /shrug
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
@CanPanther Stopped reading here. Full stop actually. There is so much wrong with this statement. Please don't ever say this silly shit again in your life. Like ever.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I understand certain type of mmorpg get very small budget compare to a generic themepark game. But those games are out there and people just don't play them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
(btw. they are indeed dead)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Clarity trumps ease.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Is the OP an idiot?
You stay sassy!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR