MMO PvP: Winning against the odds

Putrefee · January 2020

I am someone who enjoys PvP of many kinds.

Recently I drowned a red Tauren with my Night Elf Druid that was trying to gank me. This was on a classic RP/PvP server.

Another memorable experience was soloing three Undead in blasted lands with a Prot Warrior. Maybe it was luck, maybe it was well chosen targets and great victory rush timing.

In DAoC, Andred server, I defended my guilds keep solo with a Cave Shaman and critical dots. (I killed most of the people in the two groups that attacked)

I have zero stories of winning with my Ogre Warrior on Rallos Zek in Everquest. I was a hard to kill distraction while my groups would run away and bag their gear. Was a win for me if no one lost any gear.

In DFC, I invaded Evil with a level 20 wizard named Celeborn. I ended up farming silver axes or something and making it back to good without dieing. (Whole time I was there, my adrenaline was pumping.)

These are just a very few of the stories that make PvP in MMORPGs incredible for me.

Winning in a fair fight is okay, winning against the odds is incredible. IMO

Anyone else have similar stories of winning against the odds?

bcbully · January 2020

Nice post OP I have YouTube vids playing multiple games doing just that winning against the odds.

its so funny to me when some people talk about “fair fights” being the mark of skill.

If someone sneaks me I expect to win. If I get jumped by multiples I expect to win, or get away which tastes just as sweet as a win

iixviiiix · January 2020

^ yeah , he did it like a whale . When more than 6 player's HP below 15k , he have 25k hp and ton of defense and damage . Hasla time with a lots of noobs around to hunt .

AA have anti zergs mechanic , the more weak player CC target , higher change for anti CC to pop up and pretty much ruined group strategy .

If there is a story of win again the odd then i pretty much a victim here lol . It happen when a fighter in shaiya online did suicide bomber when we are battle with a PVP boss and he wiped nearly 20 melee players of my side , boss gone wild and healer and ranger die soon after that . We lost that boss too .

Other yolo again odds story are just P2W whale killing weak F2P players

Putrefee · January 2020

iixviiiix said:

^ yeah , he did it like a whale . When more than 6 player's HP below 15k , he have 25k hp and ton of defense and damage . Hasla time with a lots of noobs around to hunt .
AA have anti zergs mechanic , the more weak player CC target , higher change for anti CC to pop up and pretty much ruined group strategy .

If there is a story of win again the odd then i pretty much a victim here lol . It happen when a fighter in shaiya online did suicide bomber when we are battle with a PVP boss and he wiped nearly 20 melee players of my side , boss gone wild and healer and ranger die soon after that . We lost that boss too .

Other yolo again odds story are just P2W whale killing weak F2P players

In EQ we let a strange rogue join our camp group. Everything was fine until we had a difficult pull. The rogue turned on us and ended up killing and looting everyone in the group.

He was nice about it. He sent a #bow and thanked us...

By the time I left EQ for DAoC, I would only group with people I knew or who were in blue guilds and I would attack anyone I didn't know who inspected my gear.

DAoC was a welcomed change of pace.

bcbully · January 2020

Rhoklaw said:

DAoC is notorious for these kinds of engagements. A well organized 8 man team could decimate the zergs simply by knowing how to play the game. This is what people thrived on for their adrenaline rush. However, I've always found this video to be one of my favorite against the odds PvP engagements.

And the PvE dudes say they need more challenging content

World Boss shit right there.

ultimateduck · January 2020

I was the co-founder of DAoCs first stealther guild, Shady Characters. One of our first guild functions was to take a keep without siege. We had over 50 stealthers there. Scouts on the ground shooting guards and people trying to get it while our army of assassins climbed inside and took out the Lord. We took 3 keeps this way before we lost too many people to continue.

Most of my memories revolve around my stealthers and a few my solo warrior.

Fun times.

Utinni · January 2020

DAoC and SB are lovely for this. If only crowfall felt this way.

bcbully · January 2020

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

DAoC is notorious for these kinds of engagements. A well organized 8 man team could decimate the zergs simply by knowing how to play the game. This is what people thrived on for their adrenaline rush. However, I've always found this video to be one of my favorite against the odds PvP engagements.

And the PvE dudes say they need more challenging content World Boss shit right there.

Except world bosses don't wander around in zones you aren't expecting them to be.

Challenging though, no?

bcbully · January 2020

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

DAoC is notorious for these kinds of engagements. A well organized 8 man team could decimate the zergs simply by knowing how to play the game. This is what people thrived on for their adrenaline rush. However, I've always found this video to be one of my favorite against the odds PvP engagements.

And the PvE dudes say they need more challenging content World Boss shit right there.

Except world bosses don't wander around in zones you aren't expecting them to be.

Challenging though, no?

Yes, but would you play a single player game where the world boss comes into the town and continually stomps you every time you respawn? Probably not. So, if you can find some way to prevent that without making the "world boss" cry, you might be on to something.

Where does this kill every time you spawn thing happen? I can’t think of one mmorpg that allows this. Inside a town no less. Are you making this up?

Jamar870 · January 2020

If you read the comment, he said a "single player game".

Putrefee · January 2020

Jamar870 said:

If you read the comment, he said a "single player game".

I have saved my game right before dying and not been able to recover. Ended up losing a couple hours of progress.

It is similar if you consider your save point as your respawn location.

I didn't quit the game or attack any game that did not have an auto save feature by default.

I am glad there are single player games like Dark Souls, even if they aren't as popular as "easier" games.

As for MMOs, almost every one that I remember playing had some kind of system for getting around campers. EQ was probably the only one I remember that wouldnt protect you, and you would respawn naked.

Putrefee · January 2020

ultimateduck said:

I was the co-founder of DAoCs first stealther guild, Shady Characters. One of our first guild functions was to take a keep without siege. We had over 50 stealthers there. Scouts on the ground shooting guards and people trying to get it while our army of assassins climbed inside and took out the Lord. We took 3 keeps this way before we lost too many people to continue.

Most of my memories revolve around my stealthers and a few my solo warrior.

Fun times.

I remember hearing about a guild of stealthies that would take keeps, it may have been yours or another group with similar aspirations.

I enjoy the legends that are created in MMO PvP.

Scot · January 2020

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

bcbully · January 2020

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

@Scot that right there is the problem. It’s your mindset. I can not recall one time being beating and thinking he’s cheating.

sure I’ve ran into bugs (looking at you ESO 1% health bug), I then just avoided that situation.

when beaten and beaten bad it gets me thinking I go back to the drawing board and sketch a masterpiece that I then work towards and deploy.

Seidr · January 2020

Arterius said:

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

bcbully said:

Rhoklaw said:

DAoC is notorious for these kinds of engagements. A well organized 8 man team could decimate the zergs simply by knowing how to play the game. This is what people thrived on for their adrenaline rush. However, I've always found this video to be one of my favorite against the odds PvP engagements.

And the PvE dudes say they need more challenging content World Boss shit right there.

Except world bosses don't wander around in zones you aren't expecting them to be.

Challenging though, no?

Yes, but would you play a single player game where the world boss comes into the town and continually stomps you every time you respawn? Probably not. So, if you can find some way to prevent that without making the "world boss" cry, you might be on to something.

Where does this kill every time you spawn thing happen? I can’t think of one mmorpg that allows this. Inside a town no less. Are you making this up?

You started out commenting how PvE players claim they need more challenging content in regards to the video I posted of 1 player killing 6+ enemy players by himself, like he's a player made world boss. The problem with PvP is that some games do allow players to kill you at respawn locations, hence why I made the reference that if a world boss did that in a single player game, it would literally suck and no one would play it.

WoW was one of these. I tried to play on PVP server a few years back when I wanted to get into the game the first time.

I was told PVP server was the way to go. Created a Tauren and was in the starting town. There were 4 alliance people at the starting area murdering the people trying to do anything. When I re-spawned I was killed again. I tried for an hour before quitting the game altogether. I was so annoyed and pissed off I didn't even roll on a PVE server. Didn't even think about play the game until a year ago or so

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

Arterius you are the kind of people I have received the most interesting and memorable feedback in games. Sometimes it was funny, sometimes it was sad, mostly just another day in the salt mines.

and...

Scot you are the kind of people I enjoyed creating with a passion. I never have cheated, I do not have even considered it, and yet it is the first thing losing side goes to. Those tears are the fuel that makes PVP delightful.

Ungood · January 2020

The best fights I ever had were in Eternal Crusade.

The one that stood out to me, was I was playing a Ork Mad Doc. Fortress map, and we were defending. We had 3 min left on the clock and ran out of tickets. The space marines knew they had us at this point and threw themselves at us with insane fury. The loota boys braced up, the mad doc's ran healing and recon to stop them from jumping behind us, with the choppa and shoota boys digging in at the point. Bolter fire and bodies flew everywhere. It was like a song of battle, "Get up, get Up" as we pumped more fighting juice into the boys and they would charge back into the fray.

We held them to the last second, and they started the cap. All of us ran down from the our trenched in spots to function as a body shield for the lone shoota boy trying to interrupt. They laid into use with a hail of fire and rage, mad doc and choppa boy stood there as bullet catchers, our bodies littered the floor, but.. we stopped the cap and won.

Much Kudos were given by both both sides at our amazing last stand, it was just a great game round, thrilling and in end the end, respectful to each others for our efforts.

And while I have gone on to have many more last second wins in that game, all of them down to the wire and intense. I remember that one vividly because we thought where we so dead, no tickets and too much time left, but opted to fight to our last, and it was just, we were pissing awesome in those last moments, and somehow won.

Never experienced anything even remotely close to that level of intensity and feeling of victory in MMO PvP.

Scorchien · January 2020

Ungood said:

The best fights I ever had were in Eternal Crusade.

The one that stood out to me, was I was playing a Ork Mad Doc. Fortress map, and we were defending. We had 3 min left on the clock and ran out of tickets. The space marines knew they had us at this point and threw themselves at us with insane fury. The loota boys braced up, the mad doc's ran healing and recon to stop them from jumping behind us, with the choppa and shoota boys digging in at the point. Bolter fire and bodies flew everywhere. It was like a song of battle, "Get up, get Up" as we pumped more fighting juice into the boys and they would charge back into the fray.

We held them to the last second, and they started the cap. All of us ran down from the our trenched in spots to function as a body shield for the lone shoota boy trying to interrupt. They laid into use with a hail of fire and rage, mad doc and choppa boy stood there as bullet catchers, our bodies littered the floor, but.. we stopped the cap and won.

Much Kudos were given by both both sides at our amazing last stand, it was just a great game round, thrilling and in end the end, respectful to each others for our efforts.

And while I have gone on to have many more last second wins in that game, all of them down to the wire and intense. I remember that one vividly because we thought where we so dead, no tickets and too much time left, but opted to fight to our last, and it was just, we were pissing awesome in those last moments, and somehow won.

Never experienced anything even remotely close to that level of intensity and feeling of victory in MMO PvP.

Except Eternal Crusade is NOT an MMO , its a lobby based FPS with 30 max players

Scot · January 2020

bcbully said:

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

@Scot that right there is the problem. It’s your mindset. I can not recall one time being beating and thinking he’s cheating.

sure I’ve ran into bugs (looking at you ESO 1% health bug), I then just avoided that situation.

when beaten and beaten bad it gets me thinking I go back to the drawing board and sketch a masterpiece that I then work towards and deploy.

Come on, in every pvp game you have played? When we know how widespread cheating is? Some games do manage the cheating well, but many struggle. It was a joke for us ((OMG how could I have been killed unless it was a cheater?

)), we knew nearly all were genuine kills, but there is no getting away from the occasional cheater, last one was on R6S last week.

Ungood · January 2020

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

The best fights I ever had were in Eternal Crusade.

The one that stood out to me, was I was playing a Ork Mad Doc. Fortress map, and we were defending. We had 3 min left on the clock and ran out of tickets. The space marines knew they had us at this point and threw themselves at us with insane fury. The loota boys braced up, the mad doc's ran healing and recon to stop them from jumping behind us, with the choppa and shoota boys digging in at the point. Bolter fire and bodies flew everywhere. It was like a song of battle, "Get up, get Up" as we pumped more fighting juice into the boys and they would charge back into the fray.

We held them to the last second, and they started the cap. All of us ran down from the our trenched in spots to function as a body shield for the lone shoota boy trying to interrupt. They laid into use with a hail of fire and rage, mad doc and choppa boy stood there as bullet catchers, our bodies littered the floor, but.. we stopped the cap and won.

Much Kudos were given by both both sides at our amazing last stand, it was just a great game round, thrilling and in end the end, respectful to each others for our efforts.

And while I have gone on to have many more last second wins in that game, all of them down to the wire and intense. I remember that one vividly because we thought where we so dead, no tickets and too much time left, but opted to fight to our last, and it was just, we were pissing awesome in those last moments, and somehow won.

Never experienced anything even remotely close to that level of intensity and feeling of victory in MMO PvP.

Except Eternal Crusade is NOT an MMO , its a lobby based FPS with 30 max players

LOL, nahh, it can handle up to 100 on a single map, and it's not First Person, thank you very much... and yah.. I know it's not an MMO. Never said it was.

Ungood · January 2020

Scot said:

bcbully said:

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

@Scot that right there is the problem. It’s your mindset. I can not recall one time being beating and thinking he’s cheating.

sure I’ve ran into bugs (looking at you ESO 1% health bug), I then just avoided that situation.

when beaten and beaten bad it gets me thinking I go back to the drawing board and sketch a masterpiece that I then work towards and deploy.

Come on, in every pvp game you have played? When we know how widespread cheating is? Some games do manage the cheating well, but many struggle. It was a joke for us ((OMG how could I have killed unless it was a cheater? )), we knew nearly all were genuine kills, but there is no getting away from the occasional cheater, last one was on R6S last week.

The cheating epidemic in GW2 kinda kinda showed me that Cheaters have absolutely no shame on what they will cheat in, and that all games struggle against them, anyone that denies cheaters and cheating happens, has their skull rectus impactus.

This is not to say everyone that wins, cheats, it just means there are cheaters in every game.

Scorchien · January 2020

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

The best fights I ever had were in Eternal Crusade.

The one that stood out to me, was I was playing a Ork Mad Doc. Fortress map, and we were defending. We had 3 min left on the clock and ran out of tickets. The space marines knew they had us at this point and threw themselves at us with insane fury. The loota boys braced up, the mad doc's ran healing and recon to stop them from jumping behind us, with the choppa and shoota boys digging in at the point. Bolter fire and bodies flew everywhere. It was like a song of battle, "Get up, get Up" as we pumped more fighting juice into the boys and they would charge back into the fray.

We held them to the last second, and they started the cap. All of us ran down from the our trenched in spots to function as a body shield for the lone shoota boy trying to interrupt. They laid into use with a hail of fire and rage, mad doc and choppa boy stood there as bullet catchers, our bodies littered the floor, but.. we stopped the cap and won.

Much Kudos were given by both both sides at our amazing last stand, it was just a great game round, thrilling and in end the end, respectful to each others for our efforts.

And while I have gone on to have many more last second wins in that game, all of them down to the wire and intense. I remember that one vividly because we thought where we so dead, no tickets and too much time left, but opted to fight to our last, and it was just, we were pissing awesome in those last moments, and somehow won.

Never experienced anything even remotely close to that level of intensity and feeling of victory in MMO PvP.

Except Eternal Crusade is NOT an MMO , its a lobby based FPS with 30 max players

LOL, nahh, it can handle up to 100 on a single map, and it's not First Person, thank you very much... and yah.. I know it's not an MMO. Never said it was.

ohh 100 well then ... The thread is titled MMO PvP .... Mehh Shooter all the same and not a very good one that very few play , Id be shocked if they could get 100 players in a single game

Ungood · January 2020

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

Scorchien said:

Ungood said:

The best fights I ever had were in Eternal Crusade.

The one that stood out to me, was I was playing a Ork Mad Doc. Fortress map, and we were defending. We had 3 min left on the clock and ran out of tickets. The space marines knew they had us at this point and threw themselves at us with insane fury. The loota boys braced up, the mad doc's ran healing and recon to stop them from jumping behind us, with the choppa and shoota boys digging in at the point. Bolter fire and bodies flew everywhere. It was like a song of battle, "Get up, get Up" as we pumped more fighting juice into the boys and they would charge back into the fray.

We held them to the last second, and they started the cap. All of us ran down from the our trenched in spots to function as a body shield for the lone shoota boy trying to interrupt. They laid into use with a hail of fire and rage, mad doc and choppa boy stood there as bullet catchers, our bodies littered the floor, but.. we stopped the cap and won.

Much Kudos were given by both both sides at our amazing last stand, it was just a great game round, thrilling and in end the end, respectful to each others for our efforts.

And while I have gone on to have many more last second wins in that game, all of them down to the wire and intense. I remember that one vividly because we thought where we so dead, no tickets and too much time left, but opted to fight to our last, and it was just, we were pissing awesome in those last moments, and somehow won.

Never experienced anything even remotely close to that level of intensity and feeling of victory in MMO PvP.

Except Eternal Crusade is NOT an MMO , its a lobby based FPS with 30 max players

LOL, nahh, it can handle up to 100 on a single map, and it's not First Person, thank you very much... and yah.. I know it's not an MMO. Never said it was.

ohh 100 well then ... The thread is titled MMO PvP .... Mehh Shooter all the same and not a very good one that very few play , Id be shocked if they could get 100 players in a single game

TBH, I would be shocked if they got 100 person game going these days.

Putrefee · January 2020

Ungood said:

Scot said:

bcbully said:

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

@Scot that right there is the problem. It’s your mindset. I can not recall one time being beating and thinking he’s cheating.

sure I’ve ran into bugs (looking at you ESO 1% health bug), I then just avoided that situation.

when beaten and beaten bad it gets me thinking I go back to the drawing board and sketch a masterpiece that I then work towards and deploy.

Come on, in every pvp game you have played? When we know how widespread cheating is? Some games do manage the cheating well, but many struggle. It was a joke for us ((OMG how could I have killed unless it was a cheater? )), we knew nearly all were genuine kills, but there is no getting away from the occasional cheater, last one was on R6S last week.

The cheating epidemic in GW2 kinda kinda showed me that Cheaters have absolutely no shame on what they will cheat in, and that all games struggle against them, anyone that denies cheaters and cheating happens, has their skull rectus impactus.

This is not to say everyone that wins, cheats, it just means there are cheaters in every game.

Cheating seems to be common in anything competitive, even PvE. Or finding any and all advantages to get ahead of your competition.

I heard that guilds competing for world's first in WoW would faction change just for an advantage getting a world's first achievement

I think its the culture. If you find people that actually enjoy testing themselves, facing challenges and improving, you found the kind of culture I want to live in (digital or not).

Scot · January 2020

Putrefee said:

Ungood said:

Scot said:

bcbully said:

Scot said:

While I applaud the adversarial cunning shown in these posts lets be honest, most winning against the odds is done by cheating and gives PvP such a bad name. Indeed, if you are the player against whom another has won against the odds you always think it is a cheater.

I can remember playing in Battlefield not as a team and voice chat was silence apart from the likes of "that bloody cheater" (post sanitised for family viewing). Were they cheaters, maybe, but I can only remember a couple I was sure were cheating.

Remember the old school golden rule of PvP etiquette. If your teammate makes a kill its "Well done!", if they get killed its "bad luck" and if you get killed its "bloody cheater!". Or whatever the kids say these day, was playing Rainbow 6 Siege the other week and they get a tad tetchy.

@Scot that right there is the problem. It’s your mindset. I can not recall one time being beating and thinking he’s cheating.

sure I’ve ran into bugs (looking at you ESO 1% health bug), I then just avoided that situation.

when beaten and beaten bad it gets me thinking I go back to the drawing board and sketch a masterpiece that I then work towards and deploy.

Come on, in every pvp game you have played? When we know how widespread cheating is? Some games do manage the cheating well, but many struggle. It was a joke for us ((OMG how could I have killed unless it was a cheater? )), we knew nearly all were genuine kills, but there is no getting away from the occasional cheater, last one was on R6S last week.

The cheating epidemic in GW2 kinda kinda showed me that Cheaters have absolutely no shame on what they will cheat in, and that all games struggle against them, anyone that denies cheaters and cheating happens, has their skull rectus impactus.

This is not to say everyone that wins, cheats, it just means there are cheaters in every game.

Cheating seems to be common in anything competitive, even PvE. Or finding any and all advantages to get ahead of your competition.

I heard that guilds competing for world's first in WoW would faction change just for an advantage getting a world's first achievement

I think its the culture. If you find people that actually enjoy testing themselves, facing challenges and improving, you found the kind of culture I want to live in (digital or not).

This is my ideal, an Olympian outlook rather than a care bear PvE one. But we cant pretend the cheaters are not there.

Amathe · January 2020

Ungood said:

I don't condone cheating, and I personally do not cheat. There was a time when I used to rant against cheaters.

But over the years it has seemed to me that cheaters don't see themselves as rule breakers, or as engaging in any conduct that affects anyone but themselves.

To illustrate, imagine you walk across a street at some point other than the crosswalk. You don't think of yourself as a law breaker. You see no particular importance to complying with the law against jaywalking. You really don't give it any thought at all. You just cross where it's convenient to you. And you see lots of other people doing it, so you shrug it off.

You can try to explain to them that cheating actually does have a negative impact on the game, but it is unlikely you will persuade them.

botrytis · January 2020

Amathe said:

Ungood said:

I don't condone cheating, and I personally do not cheat. There was a time when I used to rant against cheaters.

But over the years it has seemed to me that cheaters don't see themselves as rule breakers, or as engaging in any conduct that affects anyone but themselves.

To illustrate, imagine you walk across a street at some point other than the crosswalk. You don't think of yourself as a law breaker. You see no particular importance to complying with the law against jaywalking. You really don't give it any thought at all. You just cross where it's convenient to you. And you see lots of other people doing it, so you shrug it off.

You can try to explain to them that cheating actually does have a negative impact on the game, but it is unlikely you will persuade them.

Totally agree. Cheaters don't think they are hurting the game or others because they are only thinking of themselves. It really is a selfish attitude that incorporates cheating.

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