Another take on this situation though after watching the stream two times(yes, 6 hours) and reading through all the replies on mop is that it all seems like an engine pitch to potential buyers. Every question related to Ragnarok gets an enthusiastic response and speaking about CU always has a "down" tone. There is so much "what the engine can do" in that stream and in the mop replies that you may forget all about CU unless you listen/look really closely. Watch that stream or read mop replies and take a shot each time he mentions anything about the engine and take two when he mentions having "thousands of npc's". How long since he has done a long CU stream but all of a sudden a 3 hour stream + 30+ hours on mop replying to people. That looks like some serious effort being put forward not to reassure backers because NO BETA or launch dates were spoken of for CU it was mostly a new game + engine pitch. "Adding things as easy as a click" < this is not communication for players it's for developers".
You know what would really show off the engine and put it in a great light? Making Camelot Unchained into a great game that uses the engine to do a bunch of cool stuff. Conversely, if an engine is built from scratch for a particular game and doesn't even work well for the game that it was specifically built for, then the engine is garbage.
There's nothing wrong with trying to reuse an engine for several games. But the way to prove that people can make great games based on your engine is to make a great game based on your engine.
Why put in all the extra effort when you can showcase everything the engine can do with a one zone tower defense demo?
Demonstrating that a game engine can do simple things well is not at all similar to demonstrating that it can do difficult and complicated things well. RPG Maker is a fine tool for its intended purpose, but there are good reasons why AAA games don't use it.
Anybody watching Kickstarter over the last few years knows that it’s possible for backers to be totally screwed over even when a project is a little too successful – just ask the schmucks who backed Oculus, only to watch those dudes sell out to Facebook to the tune of two billion bucks while they got… a “free” headset.
Jacobs is plainly aware of that concern and told me CSE is working on a plan to properly compensate existing backers, but since the plan’s not finished, I can’t comment on it just yet. I can say that my impression is that long-time backers will be content with the way things shake out, and new players will still have a chance to join in – it seemed clear to me that Jacobs intends to reward well the gamer's who’ve stuck by his studio all these years. Expect more on that as soon as those plans are finalized and public.
Reading this 2 year old passage made me laugh.In the article he mentions THAT 7.5 mil investment was to speed up the development of the game and that MAYBE a possibility of 2018 release.Not even close and not even a real beta.
Reading over the entire article i got an impression that Mark was always up to something and perhaps the real reason he has been willing to offer up refunds.I just mentioned it a few days ago,people are paying these type of devs to build a prototype to sell to investors.
Claiming to speed up production of CU then turn around and work on another game sounds sketchy.So my take is that this NEW round of investment was because those investors wanted CU to take on this other role but Mark saw it as an opportunity to sell two games.So this "compensation"from that previous article is to give players a free copy of the game and in game currency"worthless".His take is that this is above and beyond because he was not legally bound to any compensation. LMAO yeah nice take their Mark..."not legally bound"yeah you are doing your backers such a favor.Then if the game does exceptionally well you'll give them more in game currency"worthless".So this way he will have a cash shop game AND a subscription game when in reality both could be in the same game but less profitable,something investors would not want because they like $$$.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
CU backers are losing Faith in you, Mark. You haven't delivered on what was promised. I have zero interest on the announced game.
I just hope when or if CU ever comes out it doesn't have some weird key layout. I like 1 button for 1 skill totally hate 5 buttons for 1 skill like in bdo. 5 buttons to use 1 skill is not good for your hands in rl.
CU backers are losing Faith in you, Mark. You haven't delivered on what was promised. I have zero interest on the announced game.
I just hope when or if CU ever comes out it doesn't have some weird key layout. I like 1 button for 1 skill totally hate 5 buttons for 1 skill like in bdo. 5 buttons to use 1 skill is not good for your hands in rl.
I dont think youre going to have to worry about the keyboard layout with this one...
wow 1000 enemies running at your tower, why is he so excited to show us 1000 enemies on the screen at once ? you should have seen Lineage 2 at its Hay Day , when we were conquering the Biggest city there was maybe 2000 people watching us and PVPING all over , it was absolutely crazy. This was like 10 years ago maybe ? i dont remember but it was a Long time ago when PC's were crap hahahah ( Never seen more people at one time in any game since this)
1000 enemies isnt really that impressive mark , Good job on a Boring looking tower defense game,
Another take on this situation though after watching the stream two times(yes, 6 hours) and reading through all the replies on mop is that it all seems like an engine pitch to potential buyers. Every question related to Ragnarok gets an enthusiastic response and speaking about CU always has a "down" tone. There is so much "what the engine can do" in that stream and in the mop replies that you may forget all about CU unless you listen/look really closely. Watch that stream or read mop replies and take a shot each time he mentions anything about the engine and take two when he mentions having "thousands of npc's". How long since he has done a long CU stream but all of a sudden a 3 hour stream + 30+ hours on mop replying to people. That looks like some serious effort being put forward not to reassure backers because NO BETA or launch dates were spoken of for CU it was mostly a new game + engine pitch. "Adding things as easy as a click" < this is not communication for players it's for developers".
You know what would really show off the engine and put it in a great light? Making Camelot Unchained into a great game that uses the engine to do a bunch of cool stuff. Conversely, if an engine is built from scratch for a particular game and doesn't even work well for the game that it was specifically built for, then the engine is garbage.
There's nothing wrong with trying to reuse an engine for several games. But the way to prove that people can make great games based on your engine is to make a great game based on your engine.
Why put in all the extra effort when you can showcase everything the engine can do with a one zone tower defense demo?
Demonstrating that a game engine can do simple things well is not at all similar to demonstrating that it can do difficult and complicated things well. RPG Maker is a fine tool for its intended purpose, but there are good reasons why AAA games don't use it.
Did you watch the stream? Seems like you are replying to my comments without having viewed the source for everything being discussed... and bringing up rpg maker wtf? He goes into detail of what the engine can do in both the stream and oddly heavily in the replies on mop. Why discuss so much technical jargen about the engine with people who care only about the game they funded unless you're trying to pitch the engine to a buyer.
People bring up Ashes BR but aren't remembering CF licensing their modified unity engine out a while back. Unchained is theirs to do what they want with it built with other people's crowdfunded CU money cause there's no way to prove any "private funds" was ever invested.
You guys acting like you never heard of a game studio working on multiple games at the same time?
Working on multiple games is normally fine, except when the lead developer promised not to less than a year ago saying it would be dishonest (his words) to do so.
Also, order is important, normally a studio would deliver the game people paid for almost 7 years ago (or at least provide a solid delivery date) before announcing preorders for the 2nd game are starting "soon."
But as you surely must know this, clearly your post is disingenuous , borderline trolling really so we who live under the bridge will give you a nod for the effort.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
By Q3-4 or Early next year there will be a buyout of the 'engine' by a big company, Tencent perhaps?
Sure studios work on multiple titles all the time, they just release a press release about the new IP, developed or acquired. They don't make hours of video or reply's on a third party site for days trying to 'sell' something like a back alley salesman.
I am not a backer of CU, but I do not grasp their strategy about making a MOBA. Hopefully, for those backers that stick around, they will eventually get CU out.
I am not a backer of CU, but I do not grasp their strategy about making a MOBA. Hopefully, for those backers that stick around, they will eventually get CU out.
Personally can't wait for them to announce their MOBA.
By Q3-4 or Early next year there will be a buyout of the 'engine' by a big company, Tencent perhaps?
Sure studios work on multiple titles all the time, they just release a press release about the new IP, developed or acquired. They don't make hours of video or reply's on a third party site for days trying to 'sell' something like a back alley salesman.
yeah but this is a different situation, surely you can see that?
There is a difference between, say, EA making multiple games across its studios or Bethesda making several titles and a developer who takes kickstarter money to make one game, is several years later than promised and then announces another game.
Some (a lot?) of backers will suddenly lift their heads from their keyboards and say "wait! What happened to the game you promised years ago!"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
There is a difference between, say, EA making multiple games across its studios or Bethesda making several titles and a developer who takes kickstarter money to make one game, is several years later than promised and then announces another game.
We need this chaos, we need to put developers in check and create a new standard in the gaming industry. They will hustle us as long as we let them.
You are exactly correct, they have been hustling us for about
10-15 years now and its getting really old. We need some quality titles
to come out. Hell just 1-2 would be nice.
3-4 games this year already have changed things up, flipped, or flopped.
We need this chaos, we need to put developers in check and create a new standard in the gaming industry. They will hustle us as long as we let them.
I think the real issue is some of these guys like MJ have lost touch with reality.
They made one hit game almost 20 years ago - have made other games that all flopped and are thinking they can replicate the success of that one hit wonder.
I think the players are finding out the truth - nothing MJ ever attempts will never be even 1/5th of what DAoC was almost 2 decades ago.
It's a bitter pill to swallow but that's reality.
These are not the droids you are looking for, these are not the games that will live up to past successes
Just my 2c
Didn't we all learn from Smed's issues years ago...
You guys acting like you never heard of a game studio working on multiple games at the same time?
After one game has completed - sure.
Studios that never launched anything and have collected KS money and suddenly start working on multiple games - yeah that is shit.
Launch the game people paid for first
Also a tiny studio like CSE working on multiple games vs a studio with 100s of developers- that's night and day difference.
CSE cannot and should not work on multiple projects at this time.
but you surly Know its a new team with a new investment. So now its a perfectly a game studio with two teams on 2 projects at lest thats how I see it.
Even if they have stood up two teams, they've likely split the existing experienced members between the two, requiring them to backfill each with new resources which actually drag down velocity for at least 3 to 6 months.
As the new project has priority it is even more likely it has been given the lions share of the most capable resources to ensure delivery goals can be met.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If they had something solid in camelot unchained they would put all focus on it instead of diverting themselves into another project. CSE is cutting their losses and wish to recover some by using their game engine for something else. Might be a good thing for the company but a bad thing for anyone having high hopes for CU.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Website making bank off CU and Blizzard posts. People get so emotional over these things.
Trainingwrecks, people love hearing about them and can't turn away, check out the evening news sometime.
By the way people act on this site you'd think that game developers personally caused a train wreck that killed posters family. I worry about the collective blood pressure of the top 10% of posters.
Website making bank off CU and Blizzard posts. People get so emotional over these things.
Trainingwrecks, people love hearing about them and can't turn away, check out the evening news sometime.
By the way people act on this site you'd think that game developers personally caused a train wreck that killed posters family. I worry about the collective blood pressure of the top 10% of posters.
Only speaking for myself... 118/74. Cholesterol slightly high at 190 but that's because I eat like shit not because I post here.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Website making bank off CU and Blizzard posts. People get so emotional over these things.
Trainingwrecks, people love hearing about them and can't turn away, check out the evening news sometime.
By the way people act on this site you'd think that game developers personally caused a train wreck that killed posters family. I worry about the collective blood pressure of the top 10% of posters.
Only speaking for myself... 118/74. Cholesterol slightly high at 190 but that's because I eat like shit not because I post here.
That's a good range. We will work on getting that cholesterol down though.
Comments
What about player backers?
Anybody watching Kickstarter over the last few years knows that it’s possible for backers to be totally screwed over even when a project is a little too successful – just ask the schmucks who backed Oculus, only to watch those dudes sell out to Facebook to the tune of two billion bucks while they got… a “free” headset.
Jacobs is plainly aware of that concern and told me CSE is working on a plan to properly compensate existing backers, but since the plan’s not finished, I can’t comment on it just yet. I can say that my impression is that long-time backers will be content with the way things shake out, and new players will still have a chance to join in – it seemed clear to me that Jacobs intends to reward well the gamer's who’ve stuck by his studio all these years. Expect more on that as soon as those plans are finalized and public.
Reading over the entire article i got an impression that Mark was always up to something and perhaps the real reason he has been willing to offer up refunds.I just mentioned it a few days ago,people are paying these type of devs to build a prototype to sell to investors.
Claiming to speed up production of CU then turn around and work on another game sounds sketchy.So my take is that this NEW round of investment was because those investors wanted CU to take on this other role but Mark saw it as an opportunity to sell two games.So this "compensation"from that previous article is to give players a free copy of the game and in game currency"worthless".His take is that this is above and beyond because he was not legally bound to any compensation.
LMAO yeah nice take their Mark..."not legally bound"yeah you are doing your backers such a favor.Then if the game does exceptionally well you'll give them more in game currency"worthless".So this way he will have a cash shop game AND a subscription game when in reality both could be in the same game but less profitable,something investors would not want because they like $$$.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I just hope when or if CU ever comes out it doesn't have some weird key layout. I like 1 button for 1 skill totally hate 5 buttons for 1 skill like in bdo. 5 buttons to use 1 skill is not good for your hands in rl.
you should have seen Lineage 2 at its Hay Day , when we were conquering the Biggest city there was maybe 2000 people watching us and PVPING all over , it was absolutely crazy. This was like 10 years ago maybe ? i dont remember but it was a Long time ago when PC's were crap hahahah ( Never seen more people at one time in any game since this)
1000 enemies isnt really that impressive mark , Good job on a Boring looking tower defense game,
He goes into detail of what the engine can do in both the stream and oddly heavily in the replies on mop. Why discuss so much technical jargen about the engine with people who care only about the game they funded unless you're trying to pitch the engine to a buyer.
People bring up Ashes BR but aren't remembering CF licensing their modified unity engine out a while back. Unchained is theirs to do what they want with it built with other people's crowdfunded CU money cause there's no way to prove any "private funds" was ever invested.
Also, order is important, normally a studio would deliver the game people paid for almost 7 years ago (or at least provide a solid delivery date) before announcing preorders for the 2nd game are starting "soon."
But as you surely must know this, clearly your post is disingenuous , borderline trolling really so we who live under the bridge will give you a nod for the effort.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is a difference between, say, EA making multiple games across its studios or Bethesda making several titles and a developer who takes kickstarter money to make one game, is several years later than promised and then announces another game.
Some (a lot?) of backers will suddenly lift their heads from their keyboards and say "wait! What happened to the game you promised years ago!"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Didn't we all learn from Smed's issues years ago...
As the new project has priority it is even more likely it has been given the lions share of the most capable resources to ensure delivery goals can be met.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018