People are hell bent over SOE and how bad they suck as a company. Furthermore, they dispise the company even when it might only control 5% of the operations - getting the game to us. Why don't people just play games as they are? Who, truely, gives a flying rats butt about who put it out on the market? Honestly... Love the game because you love the concept behind the game. Quit wasting your breath over spilt milk. So a game that you loved, went sour. Big deal. It happens to us _ALL_. Nothing in this world is aboslute perfection and things change in life with time. If you can't deal with change, your going to live a pretty sad life.
Honestly. Its childish to sit there and say, "I wont play Vanguard because my Grandma is running the operations and she doesn't know how to properly sell/host/market an MMO if her life depended on it". Grow up and enjoy the vision of VANGUARD. Not, Sony Online Entertainment. For all that its worth, erase that companies name out of your mind and immerse yourself within what you have been highly anticipating the release of. Vanguard: Saga of Heros.
Why on earth would you dump MS for SOE? Because Microsoft, is Microsoft. They're power hungry for that next great big dollar sign in the sky and Brad didn't want to deal with that. Nobody will truely know why Sigil droped MS, it's business. Don't worry about the technicalities. Enjoy the gaming life.
Note: This is my two cents and I mean no offense to anybody. Take the words for what they are worth, I am only one single individual trying to break light into peoples minds over the SoE deal.
Originally Posted by Jon Grande - Vice President, Sigil Games Online
SOE owns distribution, marketing, data center operations, and *technical* support (ie - when you have trouble installing the client, or a scratched disk from the retail box).
Sigil owns everything related to development, in-game customer service, live teams, and on-going content development.And the relationship is setup, both organizationally and financially, to reinforce those roles.
Originally posted by JPatteri Originally Posted by Jon Grande - Vice President, Sigil Games Online SOE owns distribution, marketing, data center operations, and *technical* support (ie - when you have trouble installing the client, or a scratched disk from the retail box). Sigil owns everything related to development, in-game customer service, live teams, and on-going content development.And the relationship is setup, both organizationally and financially, to reinforce those roles.
So what's affecting gameplay? Looks ok to me.
Owns? So Soe owns something. And what they own doesn't look to me like a small portion.
Sigil only owns the code and Soe everything else.
Well nothing is affecting the gameplay right now. It will be a different matter if Soe will decide to buy the code and send their "game annihilators" in.
The way it looks to me is a 50/50 partnership, and from my experience in corporation aquisitions, there are always high chances that the company with the most money will buy out the smaller company shares in order to have full control on the product.
By the way Jon Grande is not Sigil Vice president, he is the guy who cooks the burgers for the crew. He used to do it for MS before, but they dumped him as well, because the burgers where always undercooked.
Originally posted by n2sooners Originally posted by Oneon
bennylong=Benbanglong on the vanguard forums, me thinks, kekeke.
Anyway, from knowing SOE's track record and business ethics first hand, I don't plan on playing Vanguard when it's released, mainly because...my opinion, of course...I believe if Vanguard is even remotely success ful that SOE is going to buy Sigil out and run vanguard as they see fit, and will destroy it with useless "updates" and numerous expansions. And to those that don't think this will happen, you are in denial. *Scenary* SOE buys Sigil out. Smedly: Brad, we want this this this and this in Vanguard *hands Brad a sheet of paper with stupid ideas and unneeded changes* Brad: I don't think these changes are necessary, and don't fit in with our Vision for the game. Smedly: Guess we'll just pull your funding. Brad: Fine, we'll have it your way.
If that doesn't happen then I will be very...very suprised.
Big problem with that is SOE isn't funding the game. SOE doesn't like how it is going and tries to change the game, Brad just dumps them the same way he dumped MS (except that he doesn't even have to bother buying them out because he owns all rights).
Of course then he has nobody to host the game, regardless of what many people think this move does give SOE a large element of control in the game, if they drop the decision to host Vanguard a month before launch do you think Sigil won't make some 'sensible' changes requested by Smed ?
Originally posted by Parsifal57 if they drop the decision to host Vanguard a month before launch do you think Sigil won't make some 'sensible' changes requested by Smed ?
... Uh.. How about I go on a no on this. SoE isn't just going to "Drop" or "Threaten" Sigil. You're friends must royally abuse you. You get picked on a lot in school don't you? Out in the business world, they have these things called, "Contracts". They're magical. Read up on their purpose.
Originally posted by bennylong Beta testers: This game isn't ready to be released
SOE: We're happy to announce Vanguard is ready to be released and another expansion will be released in 6 months. You will also be able to purchase an adventure pak for a low price of $9.99
And don't forget to buy Pizza! Pizza is so good, even the leader of the evil side in Vanguard eats Pizza! (you can use our acclaimed /pizza command in-game, have fun!).
Originally posted by Ethanael Originally posted by Parsifal57 if they drop the decision to host Vanguard a month before launch do you think Sigil won't make some 'sensible' changes requested by Smed ?
... Uh.. How about I go on a no on this. SoE isn't just going to "Drop" or "Threaten" Sigil. You're friends must royally abuse you. You get picked on a lot in school don't you? Out in the business world, they have these things called, "Contracts". They're magical. Read up on their purpose.
Nice attempt to take a quote out of context !
The point being SOE have a lot more control over this game than people seem to believe, since the are hosting the game to say the least, friends or not if SOE decided they wanted something to change they have an extremely good bargaining position and the nearer the game gets to launch the stronger that position becomes. It would be pretty easy for them to make a case that hosting no longer fit in their current business plan, no matter how strong the contract is i'm pretty certain SOE have get out clauses !
hrm... SoE is running the servers...nope no control issues there.... SoE is the customer service for the game....still no control issues there... Seen this posted a number of times in other threads as well, but it is not correct. Reread the statement. SOE is in charge of TECHNICAL support, Sigil is in charge of CUSTOMER support. Just wanted to point that out. Here's a link to the page with the announcement. Press Release SoE is the people managing the subscriptions....there is no power in the accounting, your right... SoE is the distributor of the game...no power is a the supply channel is there? 'course not. I honestly hope that this game does turn out okay, you all deserve a wonderful experience. I think you all are wearing blinders about SoE, but that is the wonderful thing about forums, we can all express opinions and disagree.
Originally posted by Giant_Moth Whats up with all the beta bashing... it's beta. It's early beta. Heck I would almost be tempted to call it alpha, what I've heard of it.
But when the game comes out, it will be finished, and it will be awsome.
Yes..please keep your bashing reserved strictly to SOE and SWG. No need to bash Beta
Alright.. I just spent the last 20 minutes flipping through the Vangard forums -- found absolutly nothing negative said or a single upset post/thread about the entire SOE scandle....
hmmm now why is that? I would expect that it would be flooded with angry people just like every other gaming forum in the world is...?
Alright.. I just spent the last 20 minutes flipping through the Vangard forums -- found absolutly nothing negative said or a single upset post/thread about the entire SOE scandle.... hmmm now why is that? I would expect that it would be flooded with angry people just like every other gaming forum in the world is...? They deleting posts?
You must have missed by a long shot Oo.
Glip(the CM) has locked threads to consolidate a couple of big ones. Look under the production forums... there's where the war is.
Alright.. I just spent the last 20 minutes flipping through the Vangard forums -- found absolutly nothing negative said or a single upset post/thread about the entire SOE scandle.... hmmm now why is that? I would expect that it would be flooded with angry people just like every other gaming forum in the world is...? They deleting posts?
No, they are closing duplicated threads and redirecting people to the original thread about the issue. Sigil mods are not censuring or deleting threads only redirecting people to avoid redundant threads.
Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by Seloth
hrm... SoE is running the servers...nope no control issues there.... SoE is the customer service for the game....still no control issues there... Seen this posted a number of times in other threads as well, but it is not correct. Reread the statement. SOE is in charge of TECHNICAL support, Sigil is in charge of CUSTOMER support. Just wanted to point that out. Here's a link to the page with the announcement. Press Release SoE is the people managing the subscriptions....there is no power in the accounting, your right... SoE is the distributor of the game...no power is a the supply channel is there? 'course not. I honestly hope that this game does turn out okay, you all deserve a wonderful experience. I think you all are wearing blinders about SoE, but that is the wonderful thing about forums, we can all express opinions and disagree.
I as I stated else where thank you for correcting my faux pas. That unfortuneatley does not help matters much. this opens the preverbial can of worms and finger pointing game that goes along with company a providing the customer siver when company b is in charge of such things as server stablity, log on access, customer payment disputes.
Sigil: hey SoE we are gettign complaints about the server up time and crashes.
SoE: it is nto a hardware problem go check the code.
I really hope what every1 say about SOE and what will happen with vanguard ain't true.
I never played SWG so don't really know what they can have messed up so much with the game(I know several people from online that played SWG and stopped when SOE started making changes)
Im pretty sure if this would happen to vanguard I wouldn't wanna try it.
I can just tight and hope they don't have the power to destroy this game:D
Alright.. I just spent the last 20 minutes flipping through the Vangard forums -- found absolutly nothing negative said or a single upset post/thread about the entire SOE scandle.... hmmm now why is that? I would expect that it would be flooded with angry people just like every other gaming forum in the world is...? They deleting posts?
Posts are being consolidated, but look on the production forum you'll see plenty of disccussion about the issue there.
like how people saying SOE is the end of vanguard... what if they saw what MS was offering and changed their minds.. you have no clue what really is going on.
based on what i have seen and read about the game, it sounds good. Only thing i can say about SOE is they had/have very successfull MMO's out there right now.
Originally posted by holifeet Originally posted by Kem0sabe They only have 1/3 of the content implement, 1/3 of the classes are working. the content that is implemented is so bugged, bland, god awfull generic fantasy crap, that in no way this game would have been ready anytime before the 2nd/3rd quarters of 2007.
So MS let sigil go, with a sigh of relief i bet.
What do you really expect? It's a beta...not a game. It will be a game when it is released. If you went in to beta expecting to play a game that made you go 'ooh!' and 'wow!' then you were sorely mistaken.
BULLSH**....EQ2 was TOTALLY released in a beta state. There were numerous topics in the EQ2 beta boards desperatly telling the devs not to release it. But what did $OE do? Release it because they felt it was in good enoughn shape to play, just ok enough that they thought no one would care and would play anyways. Plus they wanted to get the "head start" before WoW came out.
Guess who won the battle?
There are SO many f**nkg contradictions to how they released EQ2. They said SO many things about HOW the game is and what was not going to be in it (pvp), etc.
In one year, they completely changed the game from whwat it was, added something they said was not going to be in the game and they continue to change it ...in fact, it continues to look more like WOW each day! (they've addded markers on the map to see where to turn in your quest to just like WoW).
I watched my friend play Vanguard and I'm going to tell you right now that it is a lost cause. There's another thread somewhere around here showing Gamepot with 39 brand new screenies;keep in mind that these are PR screenshots: so all graphical features are turned up and everything is posed carefully to make it look like some kind of Epic gaming experience. I watched him play for about an hour and it was so generically boring and bland that EQ2 almost looks better. I guaranteee that at some point $OE is going to stick their hands in the kettle just to make sure that their preciousssssss EQ2 doesn't get vacated by people hoping Vanguard is better.
PS- NOtice that Vanguard is now NOT on the future Hyped games list on the front page of this website??
Originally posted by slaa like how people saying SOE is the end of vanguard... what if they saw what MS was offering and changed their minds.. you have no clue what really is going on.
No, YOU have no clue what is really going on. I watched my friend not only play the game but watch him on the beta boards and what is going on there. Unless you're in the beta and actually KNOW what's going on, don't bother commenting.
Originally posted by Giant_Moth Whats up with all the beta bashing... it's beta. It's early beta. Heck I would almost be tempted to call it alpha, what I've heard of it.
But when the game comes out, it will be finished, and it will be awsome.
I guess you were never in the EQ2 beta then?
oooh boy what was that ever interesting.
Do you like paying to play beta? I didn't realize I was doing so till 6 months later when I cancelled my account.
Originally posted by holifeet Originally posted by Kem0sabeThey only have 1/3 of the content implement, 1/3 of the classes are working. the content that is implemented is so bugged, bland, god awfull generic fantasy crap, that in no way this game would have been ready anytime before the 2nd/3rd quarters of 2007.So MS let sigil go, with a sigh of relief i bet. What do you really expect? It's a beta...not a game. It will be a game when it is released. If you went in to beta expecting to play a game that made you go 'ooh!' and 'wow!' then you were sorely mistaken.I've said this before; people that go in to betas looking for a game to play are the ones who come away dissappointed and complain about. The people that are happy with the beta and believe it meets expectations with its content keep their mouths shut.People should read threads like this with a pinch of salt.By the way you just broke the NDA.
I am sorry, but i have to say: YOu need to shut up - you are an idiot! You have no clue and you take your ASSUMPTIONS as a fact and you suppose others do to. I AM NOT !
You dont KNOW, if Vanguard "will" be a game when released or not - YOU HOPE.
Let me enlighten your very backward knowledge of software developement: ALPHA: A very early stage of softwaredevelopement. Many functions and final mechanisms still missing. Beta: Testing phase of software - every function and mechanism implicated and ready to test RC (release candidate): A bugfixed/corrected version based on the beta testing results Final: The RC version with the final polish Patch: Correctionlevel of/for software
As you can (hopefully) see, a beta is NOT a softwareversion missing 60% of its final functions and mechanisms.
You need to stop posting your bull i keep reading across the boards here, Mr. Smartypants - you start to annoy me. Idioticy and blockheadedness always annoys me. I am sorry - cant help it. God gave you a brain, use it please.
Vanguard isnt remotly ready to be released. Its not completed and its full of so called major-bugs. SoE is famous for releasing half ready products (we fix it on the productionservers) - thats why SoE's dont has not any TOP 5 game.
If you look over Blizzard or NC Soft or Arena Net or or or...if you like their games or not, at least their are free from "Majorbugs" (minor issues are always present) and they DO look and feel "complete".
Do me a favour, rethink your meaning and stop posting here meantime, your colored attitude is embarrassing. There are "Pro-SoE" people posting here, but they do it with intelligence and backup.
Your postings are simply....what should i say - they are simply "dumb", sorry.
>>>By the way you just broke the NDA.
"Oh Mummy Mummy, he broke the NDA".....so what ? Want a tissue ?..../geeeeez...
Originally posted by holifeet Originally posted by Kem0sabeThey only have 1/3 of the content implement, 1/3 of the classes are working. the content that is implemented is so bugged, bland, god awfull generic fantasy crap, that in no way this game would have been ready anytime before the 2nd/3rd quarters of 2007.So MS let sigil go, with a sigh of relief i bet.
What do you really expect? It's a beta...not a game. It will be a game when it is released. If you went in to beta expecting to play a game that made you go 'ooh!' and 'wow!' then you were sorely mistaken.I've said this before; people that go in to betas looking for a game to play are the ones who come away dissappointed and complain about. The people that are happy with the beta and believe it meets expectations with its content keep their mouths shut.People should read threads like this with a pinch of salt.By the way you just broke the NDA.
Do me a favour, rethink your meaning and stop posting here meantime, your colored attitude is embarrassing. There are "Pro-SoE" people posting here, but they do it with intelligence and backup.
Your postings are simply....what should i say - they are simply "dumb", sorry.
Well that's because Holyfeet is part of Sigil/Soe of course (JMoney95 is suspitious too). He has been sent here with others to limit the damage.
Haven't you noticed how many "new" fanboys sprung all of a sudden after the Soe announcement? All these harcore fanboys who never posted in vanguard forum before, or in the MMORPG.com forum for that matter. They have less than 50 posts, and all the posts are spent in the Vanguard forums, a coincidence?
Originally posted by ste2000 Well that's because Holyfeet is part of Sigil/Soe of course (JMoney95 is suspitious too).He has been sent here with others to limit the damage.Haven't you noticed how many "new" fanboys sprung all of a sudden after the Soe announcement?All these harcore fanboys who never posted in vanguard forum before, or in the MMORPG.com forum for that matter.They have less than 50 posts, and all the posts are spent in the Vanguard forums, a coincidence?I am not so naive to believe in coincidence.
...and i even think, you are not THAT far from reality with that!
Comments
People are hell bent over SOE and how bad they suck as a company. Furthermore, they dispise the company even when it might only control 5% of the operations - getting the game to us. Why don't people just play games as they are? Who, truely, gives a flying rats butt about who put it out on the market? Honestly... Love the game because you love the concept behind the game. Quit wasting your breath over spilt milk. So a game that you loved, went sour. Big deal. It happens to us _ALL_. Nothing in this world is aboslute perfection and things change in life with time. If you can't deal with change, your going to live a pretty sad life.
I understand that this may be a initial knee jerk reaction to the idea, but sit back and remember why your mind became soaked into the concept of Vanguard. Here is a reminder, if you can't seem to remember.
New Pictures: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vangu...6150471&page=1
New Video: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/media.html
Honestly. Its childish to sit there and say, "I wont play Vanguard because my Grandma is running the operations and she doesn't know how to properly sell/host/market an MMO if her life depended on it". Grow up and enjoy the vision of VANGUARD. Not, Sony Online Entertainment. For all that its worth, erase that companies name out of your mind and immerse yourself within what you have been highly anticipating the release of. Vanguard: Saga of Heros.
Why on earth would you dump MS for SOE?
Because Microsoft, is Microsoft. They're power hungry for that next great big dollar sign in the sky and Brad didn't want to deal with that. Nobody will truely know why Sigil droped MS, it's business. Don't worry about the technicalities. Enjoy the gaming life.
Note: This is my two cents and I mean no offense to anybody. Take the words for what they are worth, I am only one single individual trying to break light into peoples minds over the SoE deal.
http://twitter.com/xmcgraw
Originally Posted by Jon Grande - Vice President, Sigil Games Online
SOE owns distribution, marketing, data center operations, and *technical* support (ie - when you have trouble installing the client, or a scratched disk from the retail box).
Sigil owns everything related to development, in-game customer service, live teams, and on-going content development.And the relationship is setup, both organizationally and financially, to reinforce those roles.
So what's affecting gameplay? Looks ok to me.
So Soe owns something.
And what they own doesn't look to me like a small portion.
Sigil only owns the code and Soe everything else.
Well nothing is affecting the gameplay right now.
It will be a different matter if Soe will decide to buy the code and send their "game annihilators" in.
The way it looks to me is a 50/50 partnership, and from my experience in corporation aquisitions, there are always high chances that the company with the most money will buy out the smaller company shares in order to have full control on the product.
By the way Jon Grande is not Sigil Vice president, he is the guy who cooks the burgers for the crew.
He used to do it for MS before, but they dumped him as well, because the burgers where always undercooked.
Of course then he has nobody to host the game, regardless of what many people think this move does give SOE a large element of control in the game, if they drop the decision to host Vanguard a month before launch do you think Sigil won't make some 'sensible' changes requested by Smed ?
http://twitter.com/xmcgraw
they are probably having a good time
Nice attempt to take a quote out of context !
The point being SOE have a lot more control over this game than people seem to believe, since the are hosting the game to say the least, friends or not if SOE decided they wanted something to change they have an extremely good bargaining position and the nearer the game gets to launch the stronger that position becomes. It would be pretty easy for them to make a case that hosting no longer fit in their current business plan, no matter how strong the contract is i'm pretty certain SOE have get out clauses !
But when the game comes out, it will be finished, and it will be awsome.
Formerly known as Royal Arcanist
Alright.. I just spent the last 20 minutes flipping through the Vangard forums -- found absolutly nothing negative said or a single upset post/thread about the entire SOE scandle....
hmmm now why is that? I would expect that it would be flooded with angry people just like every other gaming forum in the world is...?
They deleting posts?
Saidee
____________
Glip(the CM) has locked threads to consolidate a couple of big ones. Look under the production forums... there's where the war is.
Formerly known as Royal Arcanist
No, they
are closing duplicated threads and redirecting people to the original
thread about the issue. Sigil mods are not censuring or deleting threads only
redirecting people to avoid redundant threads.
I as I stated else where thank you for correcting my faux pas. That unfortuneatley does not help matters much. this opens the preverbial can of worms and finger pointing game that goes along with company a providing the customer siver when company b is in charge of such things as server stablity, log on access, customer payment disputes.
Sigil: hey SoE we are gettign complaints about the server up time and crashes.
SoE: it is nto a hardware problem go check the code.
Sigil: the code is fine, it is the servers.
rinse and repeat.
I really hope what every1 say about SOE and what will happen with vanguard ain't true.
I never played SWG so don't really know what they can have messed up so much with the game(I know several people from online that played SWG and stopped when SOE started making changes)
Im pretty sure if this would happen to vanguard I wouldn't wanna try it.
I can just tight and hope they don't have the power to destroy this game:D
like how people saying SOE is the end of vanguard... what if they saw what MS was offering and changed their minds.. you have no clue what really is going on.
based on what i have seen and read about the game, it sounds good. Only thing i can say about SOE is they had/have very successfull MMO's out there right now.
BULLSH**....EQ2 was TOTALLY released in a beta state. There were numerous topics in the EQ2 beta boards desperatly telling the devs not to release it. But what did $OE do? Release it because they felt it was in good enoughn shape to play, just ok enough that they thought no one would care and would play anyways. Plus they wanted to get the "head start" before WoW came out.
Guess who won the battle?
There are SO many f**nkg contradictions to how they released EQ2. They said SO many things about HOW the game is and what was not going to be in it (pvp), etc.
In one year, they completely changed the game from whwat it was, added something they said was not going to be in the game and they continue to change it ...in fact, it continues to look more like WOW each day! (they've addded markers on the map to see where to turn in your quest to just like WoW).
I watched my friend play Vanguard and I'm going to tell you right now that it is a lost cause. There's another thread somewhere around here showing Gamepot with 39 brand new screenies;keep in mind that these are PR screenshots: so all graphical features are turned up and everything is posed carefully to make it look like some kind of Epic gaming experience.
I watched him play for about an hour and it was so generically boring and bland that EQ2 almost looks better.
I guaranteee that at some point $OE is going to stick their hands in the kettle just to make sure that their preciousssssss EQ2 doesn't get vacated by people hoping Vanguard is better.
PS- NOtice that Vanguard is now NOT on the future Hyped games list on the front page of this website??
Unless you're in the beta and actually KNOW what's going on, don't bother commenting.
oooh boy what was that ever interesting.
Do you like paying to play beta? I didn't realize I was doing so till 6 months later when I cancelled my account.
I am sorry, but i have to say:
YOu need to shut up - you are an idiot!
You have no clue and you take your ASSUMPTIONS as a fact and you suppose others do to.
I AM NOT !
You dont KNOW, if Vanguard "will" be a game when released or not - YOU HOPE.
Let me enlighten your very backward knowledge of software developement:
ALPHA: A very early stage of softwaredevelopement. Many functions and final mechanisms still missing.
Beta: Testing phase of software - every function and mechanism implicated and ready to test
RC (release candidate): A bugfixed/corrected version based on the beta testing results
Final: The RC version with the final polish
Patch: Correctionlevel of/for software
As you can (hopefully) see, a beta is NOT a softwareversion missing 60% of its final functions and mechanisms.
You need to stop posting your bull i keep reading across the boards here, Mr. Smartypants - you start to annoy me. Idioticy and blockheadedness always annoys me. I am sorry - cant help it. God gave you a brain, use it please.
Vanguard isnt remotly ready to be released. Its not completed and its full of so called major-bugs.
SoE is famous for releasing half ready products (we fix it on the productionservers) - thats why SoE's dont has not any TOP 5 game.
If you look over Blizzard or NC Soft or Arena Net or or or...if you like their games or not, at least their are free from "Majorbugs" (minor issues are always present) and they DO look and feel "complete".
Do me a favour, rethink your meaning and stop posting here meantime, your colored attitude is embarrassing.
There are "Pro-SoE" people posting here, but they do it with intelligence and backup.
Your postings are simply....what should i say - they are simply "dumb", sorry.
>>>By the way you just broke the NDA.
"Oh Mummy Mummy, he broke the NDA".....so what ? Want a tissue ?..../geeeeez...
Claude
Do me a favour, rethink your meaning and stop posting here meantime, your colored attitude is embarrassing.
There are "Pro-SoE" people posting here, but they do it with intelligence and backup.
Your postings are simply....what should i say - they are simply "dumb", sorry.
Well that's because Holyfeet is part of Sigil/Soe of course (JMoney95 is suspitious too).
He has been sent here with others to limit the damage.
Haven't you noticed how many "new" fanboys sprung all of a sudden after the Soe announcement?
All these harcore fanboys who never posted in vanguard forum before, or in the MMORPG.com forum for that matter.
They have less than 50 posts, and all the posts are spent in the Vanguard forums, a coincidence?
I am not so naive to believe in coincidence.
...and i even think, you are not THAT far from reality with that!
Claude