Based on that perspective, DafAtRandom, no-one should ever donate any money to any independent video game development. If direction change is inevitable, as you say, then you always risk losing any value expected from your donation, including the realization of the "idea".
It's worth noting that as of Sep 1, 2020, all the public design goals for Pantheon were removed from their web site and replaced with exactly three. (climbing, perception, and acclimation)
At what point, then, is the direction shift large enough that the developers should be criticized? When half of the mechanics change from all the money they gathered to date? 75%? 95%? Or should all of us just keep throwing money at them and expecting nothing and be happy with that?
As they said, death penalty would land between EQ1 and VG. Everyone takes from that what they wish and go, good I will get what I want. The real takeaway is they have not decided where it will land. Not once did VR team say. Ok we have landed between EQ1 and VR death penalty, right where we planed. It was still fluid till VR closed the discussion and said. This is our plan.
The takeaway from that. Everything we have seen in streams could still change. As the game being in Pre-Alpha means that they dont even have what they call "The Plan" tested by the Alpha players. So even the death penalty could change with feedback the get from the Alpha testers. IF they hate things on a large enough scale, who knows how it will change.
Games in development I dont take any features as set in stone. Look how much New World has changed from a open world PvP FFA full loot MMO. Dont set your heart on anything till open beta.
Based on that perspective, DafAtRandom, no-one should ever donate any money to any independent video game development. If direction change is inevitable, as you say, then you always risk losing any value expected from your donation, including the realization of the "idea".
It's worth noting that as of Sep 1, 2020, all the public design goals for Pantheon were removed from their web site and replaced with exactly three. (climbing, perception, and acclimation)
At what point, then, is the direction shift large enough that the developers should be criticized? When half of the mechanics change from all the money they gathered to date? 75%? 95%? Or should all of us just keep throwing money at them and expecting nothing and be happy with that?
The new website is still very much a work in progress. There’s lots of stuff yet to be added. It was headed by Roenick, who has no experience in web development. There’s key things missing like business model, certain class abilities, and can’t upgrade pledges to name a few. It will probably be a little while before it’s fully fleshed out.
Based on that perspective, DafAtRandom, no-one should ever donate any money to any independent video game development. If direction change is inevitable, as you say, then you always risk losing any value expected from your donation, including the realization of the "idea".
It's worth noting that as of Sep 1, 2020, all the public design goals for Pantheon were removed from their web site and replaced with exactly three. (climbing, perception, and acclimation)
At what point, then, is the direction shift large enough that the developers should be criticized? When half of the mechanics change from all the money they gathered to date? 75%? 95%? Or should all of us just keep throwing money at them and expecting nothing and be happy with that?
I would say it' a gamble.
You can criticize all you want, be pissed, howl, rant, and rage, but it doesn't change the fact that things can change because they "need" to change. At least in the eyes of the developers.
People shouldn't give money if they are expecting to get "exactly" what is promised. You just hope that the developers are going to do the best they can given their original pitch.
It's one of the reasons (stay with me here) that I don't buy season passes to any theater events.
I don't know if I'll want to see what they will show, savings or not, or even be able to go.
If I give money to an arts organization it's not because I'm guaranteed to get performances or events I'll want to go to.
When you give money to a crowdfunded project all you are doing is supporting the devs with the hope that they will give you something close to what they wanted to make.
But it seems in game development all sorts of things are changed, dropped, added, right up to release. some of the things you might like and some "not so much."
It's a gamble and you give because you like the project and hope it will turn out well given the talent (and what was shown) involved.
so yeah, if all that bothers you don't give money!!!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If they are making changes based on their current lineup and determining THAT is their player base,they have cut themselves VERY short of expectations.
I would better assume they are targeting a large diversified player base that simply wants a game that using Brad's words "makes sense".I do not and never had any feeling corpse runs make any sense.If they are going to PRETEND you actually die then your corpse should lay there ready to be looted of all belongings. If they don't want to treat it like a real death then >>>>DON'T.Death has been a long debated topic in rpg's and there is no perfect answer,you cannot mimic the idea perfectly without pissing someone off.
I thought FFXI did it better you instantly rise up but in a weakened state that lasts for 5 minutes,or you could choose to spawn at your home point/save point fully recovered.The difference being that your home point might be a bit of a venture so you decide upon the 5 minutes which choice to choose.
The nice part about that design is that if you were simply a careless healer or dps player you could get back up and carry on with little risk.If you were the tank then yeah your going to have to wait the 5 minutes for the weakness to wear off,a low hp weak Tank isn't much good.The other nice part is if you were the healer you could get back up and keep the party alive or if some kind of mage with teleport abilities you could teleport your party out of danger.
You do need to incorporate a xp penalty with this design,i mean you can't just let players get back up like nothing happened,the weakness penalty is not enough imo.
I happen to play the EQ series and corpse runs do NOT work,they were very early in the games a cause for a lot of anger and bickering,a lot of blame would go back in forth and often parties would disband and leave each player to get their corpse alone.Point being it doesn't work ,not for the good of the game or the players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I feel like my original thought was correct,this team is so set on their old ways they are not capable of expanding their thoughts or creativity in the design.Even the "instance" idea seems more out of necessity than they wanted to be more creative.
I just don't think this team is very creative and are not even looking at other games to see if they can learn any new and better ideas.
We already have EQ1 and EQ2 so to me at least,just making another is really dumb.I mean geesh they are still sold on the altaholic idea ...a LIMITING idea.So they are not even letting common sense take hold,nope this is how we did it before this is how we are doing it again. My fellow compatriots fell through that rabbit hole but idc i'll be damn if i take a different route,i am going to walk right over that same rabbit hole and fall through like everyone else,yep that is what i am going to do !!.
It is like i want to face the decision maker face to face and say HELLO are you awake?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I happen to play the EQ series and corpse runs do NOT work,they were very early in the games a cause for a lot of anger and bickering,a lot of blame would go back in forth and often parties would disband and leave each player to get their corpse alone.Point being it doesn't work ,not for the good of the game or the players.
I think that's their feeling as well, that corpse runs don't work with how they are putting together group runs. At least old fashioned drop all your stuff runs.
It just goes back to the old argument of "what makes a good death penalty or should there be penalties at all."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I found this one old interview with Brad from over 4 years ago. He actually says they're aiming for shorter game sessions, ~ 2 hrs, and want to eliminate excessive grinding. So I'm kind of surprised that corpse runs are even on the table since it isn't exactly conducive to short gaming sessions. Brad also specifically mentions bringing in a new generation of gamers that never got to experience old EQ and appealing to them. It's only 5 min interview and I found it an interesting watch.
Ya I did wonder how that plays into Pantheon as I have not heard this mentioned in a long time. I'm not even sure this plays into content made. Every stream is about 1.5 to 2hrs long and seem to barely scratch the surface of any dungeon.
Comments
It's worth noting that as of Sep 1, 2020, all the public design goals for Pantheon were removed from their web site and replaced with exactly three. (climbing, perception, and acclimation)
At what point, then, is the direction shift large enough that the developers should be criticized? When half of the mechanics change from all the money they gathered to date? 75%? 95%?
Or should all of us just keep throwing money at them and expecting nothing and be happy with that?
The takeaway from that. Everything we have seen in streams could still change. As the game being in Pre-Alpha means that they dont even have what they call "The Plan" tested by the Alpha players. So even the death penalty could change with feedback the get from the Alpha testers. IF they hate things on a large enough scale, who knows how it will change.
Games in development I dont take any features as set in stone. Look how much New World has changed from a open world PvP FFA full loot MMO. Dont set your heart on anything till open beta.
People shouldn't give money if they are expecting to get "exactly" what is promised. You just hope that the developers are going to do the best they can given their original pitch.
It's one of the reasons (stay with me here) that I don't buy season passes to any theater events.
I don't know if I'll want to see what they will show, savings or not, or even be able to go.
If I give money to an arts organization it's not because I'm guaranteed to get performances or events I'll want to go to.
When you give money to a crowdfunded project all you are doing is supporting the devs with the hope that they will give you something close to what they wanted to make.
But it seems in game development all sorts of things are changed, dropped, added, right up to release. some of the things you might like and some "not so much."
It's a gamble and you give because you like the project and hope it will turn out well given the talent (and what was shown) involved.
so yeah, if all that bothers you don't give money!!!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would better assume they are targeting a large diversified player base that simply wants a game that using Brad's words "makes sense".I do not and never had any feeling corpse runs make any sense.If they are going to PRETEND you actually die then your corpse should lay there ready to be looted of all belongings.
If they don't want to treat it like a real death then >>>>DON'T.Death has been a long debated topic in rpg's and there is no perfect answer,you cannot mimic the idea perfectly without pissing someone off.
I thought FFXI did it better you instantly rise up but in a weakened state that lasts for 5 minutes,or you could choose to spawn at your home point/save point fully recovered.The difference being that your home point might be a bit of a venture so you decide upon the 5 minutes which choice to choose.
The nice part about that design is that if you were simply a careless healer or dps player you could get back up and carry on with little risk.If you were the tank then yeah your going to have to wait the 5 minutes for the weakness to wear off,a low hp weak Tank isn't much good.The other nice part is if you were the healer you could get back up and keep the party alive or if some kind of mage with teleport abilities you could teleport your party out of danger.
You do need to incorporate a xp penalty with this design,i mean you can't just let players get back up like nothing happened,the weakness penalty is not enough imo.
I happen to play the EQ series and corpse runs do NOT work,they were very early in the games a cause for a lot of anger and bickering,a lot of blame would go back in forth and often parties would disband and leave each player to get their corpse alone.Point being it doesn't work ,not for the good of the game or the players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I just don't think this team is very creative and are not even looking at other games to see if they can learn any new and better ideas.
We already have EQ1 and EQ2 so to me at least,just making another is really dumb.I mean geesh they are still sold on the altaholic idea ...a LIMITING idea.So they are not even letting common sense take hold,nope this is how we did it before this is how we are doing it again.
My fellow compatriots fell through that rabbit hole but idc i'll be damn if i take a different route,i am going to walk right over that same rabbit hole and fall through like everyone else,yep that is what i am going to do !!.
It is like i want to face the decision maker face to face and say HELLO are you awake?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo