New idea for sandbox fantasy MMORPG

jaaz75 · September 2020

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
No level scaling
No instancing
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all

Edit 24th Sep @ 14:27 UTC: Added points 16 & 17

Nanfoodle · September 2020

Give me $400 Mill and I will have your game released within 8-14 months. Give me $600 mill and I will promise to have it made by the weekend and I will manage the servers myself from an Island with no extradition agreement. Did I say that last part out loud?

Sovrath · September 2020

uh, this just seems like a list of things you and others have asked for (in varying combinations) over the years.

Well, a good many as some of these things seem like they are your taste (hit points only regenerating with sleep or magical means.)

So, 50 developers in 5 years? how did you come up with those numbers?

Why not 60 developers in 4 years or 40 in 6 years?

Budget?

Theocritus · September 2020

The gamebreakers

PvP enabled with consequences for evil players

Food and drink required

Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character

These 3 are the ones that would probably drive me away....I guess you wouldn't have to use a mic, but I can see it now with every teen swearing like a drunken sailor in game. Eating and drinking in video games is never fun. I have never played a game where it was done well. FFA PVP doesn't appeal to most. What game has ever had decent consequences for evil players?

Overall though, a pretty good list and some good ideas.

Theocritus · September 2020

Nanfoodle said:

Give me $400 Mill and I will have your game released within 8-14 months. Give me $600 mill and I will promise to have it made by the weekend and I will manage the servers myself from an Island with no extradition agreement. Did I say that last part out loud?

Haha I thought you were going to say 8-14 years (aka the SC method)

Nanfoodle · September 2020

Points 28 and 29 seem to contradict. Is your char sleeping or selling stuff? Or is it the odd way your char sleep walks as an NPC selling your stuff. If thats the case your char should randomly sell things you dont want him too.

jaaz75 · September 2020

Nanfoodle said:

Points 28 and 29 seem to contradict. Is your char sleeping or selling stuff? Or is it the odd way your char sleep walks as an NPC selling your stuff. If thats the case your char should randomly sell things you dont want him too.

Well you could theoretically get your character to do either or both sequentially , for a specified number of hours , and select the items available for sale.

jaaz75 · September 2020

Sovrath said:

uh, this just seems like a list of things you and others have asked for (in varying combinations) over the years.

Well, a good many as some of these things seem like they are your taste (hit points only regenerating with sleep or magical means.)

So, 50 developers in 5 years? how did you come up with those numbers?

Why not 60 developers in 4 years or 40 in 6 years?

Budget?

I pulled those figures from my arse.

Nanfoodle · September 2020

jaaz75 said:

Sovrath said:

uh, this just seems like a list of things you and others have asked for (in varying combinations) over the years.

Well, a good many as some of these things seem like they are your taste (hit points only regenerating with sleep or magical means.)

So, 50 developers in 5 years? how did you come up with those numbers?

Why not 60 developers in 4 years or 40 in 6 years?

Budget?

I pulled those figures from my arse.

Did you at least clean them before you posted them?

jaaz75 · September 2020

Theocritus said:

The gamebreakers

PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Food and drink required
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character

These 3 are the ones that would probably drive me away....I guess you wouldn't have to use a mic, but I can see it now with every teen swearing like a drunken sailor in game. Eating and drinking in video games is never fun. I have never played a game where it was done well. FFA PVP doesn't appeal to most. What game has ever had decent consequences for evil players?

Overall though, a pretty good list and some good ideas.

Sure thing, no need to make the microphone mandatory, and there is always a possibility to mute the voice of other players.

The food and drink would give food and drink a value, for both collecting, trading, hunting, making, selling etc. I'm not saying it would be easy to starve to death in the game. Just imagine in the old days , most rivers were probably quite clean and safe to drink from. Starving to death takes weeks in real life.

What consequences should there be for evil players? Become "Wanted"? Rewards for other players to kill the evil player's character? Perhaps implement an imprisonment in jail for several real life days? So if you are evil then you can get arrested and go to a virtual prison. When you log into the game the next day, you're still in the same prison cell and all you can do is eat the gruel and look at the high window and the rats.

Nanfoodle · September 2020

Theocritus said:

Nanfoodle said:

Give me $400 Mill and I will have your game released within 8-14 months. Give me $600 mill and I will promise to have it made by the weekend and I will manage the servers myself from an Island with no extradition agreement. Did I say that last part out loud?

Haha I thought you were going to say 8-14 years (aka the SC method)

Shhhh no one is too know, every 5 years I will say 5 more years.

jaaz75 · September 2020

remsleep said:

OP - mmorpgs are not made from a list of features, because you can make a game that has all those features and zero cohesion and it would be terrible

Game development is not a buffet where you go and pick from a list of options and just throw them together on your plate and it's done.

At least read a few books on basic game design first.

Your entire list reads as it was put together by a 12 year old

I've not read any game design books but played several MMORPGs so I have an idea of what made me get bored of those games, what they're missing. Do you recommend any books in particular?

I guess a backstory and place names are also necessary. I haven't thought of that bit yet. Something high fantasy should be easy to conjure up from all those DnD games and books I've read. And there are name generators available for the place and NPC names.

Nanfoodle · September 2020

jaaz75 said:

remsleep said:

OP - mmorpgs are not made from a list of features, because you can make a game that has all those features and zero cohesion and it would be terrible

Game development is not a buffet where you go and pick from a list of options and just throw them together on your plate and it's done.

At least read a few books on basic game design first.

Your entire list reads as it was put together by a 12 year old

I've not read any game design books but played several MMORPGs so I have an idea of what made me get bored of those games, what they're missing. Do you recommend any books in particular?

I guess a backstory and place names are also necessary. I haven't thought of that bit yet. Something high fantasy should be easy to conjure up from all those DnD games and books I've read. And there are name generators available for the place and NPC names.

You start by figuring out what hole is in the current MMOs released and what target audience is not getting their needs met. Is that audience is big enough to support a game, if not find another target audience.

jaaz75 · September 2020

Nanfoodle said:

jaaz75 said:

remsleep said:

OP - mmorpgs are not made from a list of features, because you can make a game that has all those features and zero cohesion and it would be terrible

Game development is not a buffet where you go and pick from a list of options and just throw them together on your plate and it's done.

At least read a few books on basic game design first.

Your entire list reads as it was put together by a 12 year old

I've not read any game design books but played several MMORPGs so I have an idea of what made me get bored of those games, what they're missing. Do you recommend any books in particular?

I guess a backstory and place names are also necessary. I haven't thought of that bit yet. Something high fantasy should be easy to conjure up from all those DnD games and books I've read. And there are name generators available for the place and NPC names.

You start by figuring out what hole is in the current MMOs released and what target audience is not getting their needs met. If that audience is big enough to support a game, if not find another target audience.

But we could also just do a "Steve Jobs" and make people think that they need to buy this game.

Nanfoodle · September 2020

Lonesols said:

jaaz75 said:

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all

You already got most of that done in the failed game of dark and light, just finish it for them

I 100% forgot about that game lol, if it fails it will have failed twice lol

ArChWind · September 2020

Quite an impressive wish list. Maybe start a Kickstarter campaign?

Cryomatrix · September 2020

Mortal online had a good number of those things. Cool list.

[Deleted User] · September 2020

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Scot · September 2020

jaaz75 said:

Sovrath said:

uh, this just seems like a list of things you and others have asked for (in varying combinations) over the years.

Well, a good many as some of these things seem like they are your taste (hit points only regenerating with sleep or magical means.)

So, 50 developers in 5 years? how did you come up with those numbers?

Why not 60 developers in 4 years or 40 in 6 years?

Budget?

I pulled those figures from my arse.

To be honest the way I see CF MMOs being developed they do a lot of that themselves.

Amaranthar · September 2020

jaaz75 said:

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
No level scaling
No instancing
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all
Edit 24th Sep @ 14:27 UTC: Added points 16 &17

That's excellent, but I do have some feedback.

18. I'm all in on build anywhere but not protected from other players.
I'd add MOBs/NPCs too.
But I would want various means to defend my property. Magical wards, hired NPCs, trained guard animals, and constructed traps.

19. Consequences for evil players needs to be real. No workarounds. But they need to get caught, too.

21. Hit point increase. What limit? I'd suggest a Max for each Stat as well as an overall Max for total.

22. Shouldn't hit chances increase too?

25. New player spans. I don't like random for this. A player may want to RP that they came from a certain part of the game world. They may want to enter the world near their Guild of choice. Etc.

28. 1st person view.
Darkfall had an excellent limited backview. I absolutely hate 1st person view except in very close quarters or studying an item.
It is NOT realistic. Go outside and play some sports or hike around a little. Then put on a diver's mask and do it. You'll see.
I would not play a game with 1st person view only.

31. If a character turns into an NPC when logged out, and since they might do so out there in the wild dangerous world, I think you'd need a system where they can hide, using camouflage and skill.

I love the concept and have wanted something like that for a very long time.
Nicely done!

cameltosis · September 2020

jaaz75 said:

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
No level scaling
No instancing
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all
Edit 24th Sep @ 14:27 UTC: Added points 16 &17

No, can't be done.

Unreal Engine cannot handle what you want it to, so that's the main stumbling block. I don't think any of the engines commercially available could do what you want, so you'd need to create a new engine and that wouldn't be possible with the number of devs or the time frame you've set out.

As for the rest, it's just a wish-list of features with no real idea of how they work together. Maybe they'll work together, maybe they won't.

There are a number of features you've included that would prevent the game from being a success (given the expected cost of making such a game) but it could find a niche market.

I have read a few books on game design but not that many. My recommendations (if you are serious about such things):

A Theory of Fun for Game Design - Raph Koster.

This book tackles the very first step of game design - what is the purpose of the game - and also explains some of the psychology behind how players have fun. None of the other books I've read tackle this problem, there seems to be very little academic research available on pure game design so this book is a real winner. It will hopefully open your eyes to the potential of the games industry, I found it incredibly inspiring. It's also quite short, easy to read and well illustrated so it is very accessible.

Level Up! A Guide to Great Game Design - Scott Rogers

Contains almost nothing about how to design a game, it seemed to be a book about how to write a game design document. Very useful once you've thought up a design, and you will need to write a GDD in order to progress your idea, even if you are building a game by yourself. You will need to present a GDD to investors, and all your team will work off of this document, so it is still very important.

The Art of Game Design - Jesse Schell

Again, nothing about how to come up with your original design, but includes an extensive list of questions (called "lenses" in the book) that you can use to examine your design for flaws.

For example, my desired game is third person, but I hadn't considered the range of zoom in 3rd person, whether the camera should bounce slightly when i run, whether there should be much lag when im turning, or how the camera should work when it collides with the scenery. this book forces me to look at these things in more depth.

Amaranthar · September 2020

cameltosis said:

jaaz75 said:

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
No level scaling
No instancing
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all
Edit 24th Sep @ 14:27 UTC: Added points 16 &17

No, can't be done.

Unreal Engine cannot handle what you want it to, so that's the main stumbling block. I don't think any of the engines commercially available could do what you want, so you'd need to create a new engine and that wouldn't be possible with the number of devs or the time frame you've set out.

As for the rest, it's just a wish-list of features with no real idea of how they work together. Maybe they'll work together, maybe they won't.

There are a number of features you've included that would prevent the game from being a success (given the expected cost of making such a game) but it could find a niche market.

I have read a few books on game design but not that many. My recommendations (if you are serious about such things):

A Theory of Fun for Game Design - Raph Koster.
This book tackles the very first step of game design - what is the purpose of the game - and also explains some of the psychology behind how players have fun. None of the other books I've read tackle this problem, there seems to be very little academic research available on pure game design so this book is a real winner. It will hopefully open your eyes to the potential of the games industry, I found it incredibly inspiring. It's also quite short, easy to read and well illustrated so it is very accessible.

Level Up! A Guide to Great Game Design - Scott Rogers
Contains almost nothing about how to design a game, it seemed to be a book about how to write a game design document. Very useful once you've thought up a design, and you will need to write a GDD in order to progress your idea, even if you are building a game by yourself. You will need to present a GDD to investors, and all your team will work off of this document, so it is still very important.

The Art of Game Design - Jesse Schell
Again, nothing about how to come up with your original design, but includes an extensive list of questions (called "lenses" in the book) that you can use to examine your design for flaws.

For example, my desired game is third person, but I hadn't considered the range of zoom in 3rd person, whether the camera should bounce slightly when i run, whether there should be much lag when im turning, or how the camera should work when it collides with the scenery. this book forces me to look at these things in more depth.

That's a great post. But I'm wondering, how close to this list was UO?
No physics, 3rd person view instead of 1st, but just about everything else was in UO at at least a minimum.

Addressing AI.
UO's MOBs had "goals" or "wants" such as food by type, gold, terrain type (I think I have that right). THey even looted such things from characters they killed. (Loved this stuff!)
UO's NPCs responded to key words. (Great feature, by the way!) They also remembered player characters they had recently seen and could give you a direction to them.
AI driven combat was as minimal as any other game, probably technically nonexistent, but at least they tried to escape when damaged enough.

jaaz75 · October 2020

Nanfoodle said:

Lonesols said:

jaaz75 said:

I've imagined a new type of MMORPG that has the following features. What do you think? Doable with Unreal Engine, 50 developers in 5 years?

Huge world, at least 500km x 500km
Realistic graphics
Sandbox play
The player is not the saviour of the world
Set in Europe dark ages 500AD or perhaps 10,000, 25,000 or 100,000 years ago
High fantasy
Server side physics
Action / physics based combat
Class based system
No map
No compass
No hovering symbols above npcs heads
AI driven dialogue
AI driven combat
AI driven NPC non combat activities
Build anywhere (buildings not protected from other players, hence the reason for the huge world and build anywhere feature)
PvP enabled with consequences for evil players
Protected areas for low levels
Hit points only increase through physical exercise and recover with sleep or magical means.
Increases in level only increase chance to block, parry or dodge but do not increase hit points to insane amount
High level characters can be killed by low level characters if hit by surprise or in unarmoured part of body
Underworld areas
New players spawn in random location
Many quests available but none essential
Enemy level hidden from players
First person view only except on inventory/vanity screen
Food and drink required
Sleeping required (character sleeps while logged out)
Character turns into a trader NPC when player logged out
Speaking into microphone produces speech through the character
No automated, centralised, auction house
Drops makes sense
Weapon quality makes a difference to combat
The purpose of playing the game is to explore, fight monsters, gain wealth, interact with others, role play, and have fun while doing it but without having your hand held through it all

You already got most of that done in the failed game of dark and light, just finish it for them

I 100% forgot about that game lol, if it fails it will have failed twice lol

Seems to be abandonware now by the looks of it. A pity.

iixviiiix · October 2020

Theocritus said:

These 3 are the ones that would probably drive me away....I guess you wouldn't have to use a mic, but I can see it now with every teen swearing like a drunken sailor in game. Eating and drinking in video games is never fun. I have never played a game where it was done well. FFA PVP doesn't appeal to most. What game has ever had decent consequences for evil players?

Overall though, a pretty good list and some good ideas.

a mechianic about player's HP get reduce overtime is better IMO . it add consume rate of recovery item instead of add another thing like food and drink .

And i think mic is okay as long as you can turn them off . And having text communicate tools like chat box is must

VRchat failed me as it don't have text communicate tools .

ArChWind · October 2020

cameltosis said:

No, can't be done.

Unreal Engine cannot handle what you want it to, so that's the main stumbling block. I don't think any of the engines commercially available could do what you want, so you'd need to create a new engine and that wouldn't be possible with the number of devs or the time frame you've set out.
.

I have an engine that will work and can prove it.

Kyleran · October 2020

ArChWind said:

cameltosis said:

No, can't be done.

Unreal Engine cannot handle what you want it to, so that's the main stumbling block. I don't think any of the engines commercially available could do what you want, so you'd need to create a new engine and that wouldn't be possible with the number of devs or the time frame you've set out.
.

I have an engine that will work and can prove it.

Call Mark Jacobs please, his team is in need of one, or at least one whose performance doesn't tank every time they add more trees and squirrels.

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New idea for sandbox fantasy MMORPG

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV