Guild Wars vs WoW (The two sides of Blizzard)

higgsboson · January 2004

Everyone probably heard about these two games by this time.

Both of these games are produced by the names that are associated with legendary Blizzard franchise games. We know that apart from the people who are actually bringing these titles to the mass and those who are actually playing it, the flagship name means next to nothing.

Now there is third party, the hyping party. These special breed of people specialize in spending their "after-hours" of work day sitting in their comfortable chair talking about games to be hyped with unprecedented resilience. No one is sure whether they are actually going to play the game they are hyping or just sitting there to cast one or two bombshell comments to invict adulterous game design and people who are blindly trying to defend it.

It's these people's duty to keep other people talk about the game to be hyped and prepare the way for the "Kingdom Comes".

Ironically I'm one of them. A very mouthful one if you might forgive me. I'm not the door-to-door going kind of type trying to convert the not-so-enlightened ones but I really can't keep my mouth shut when I see real pretty fully-packaged chick walking next to me.

In my religion, it is very sinful thing to have mouth shut when a such pretty scene has just walked by.

Now getting back to my point, the two titles mentioned in topic line have not yet been released in the market not even in beta form. But there are early hype going around these two titles. The former being hyped for it's no-monthly-subscription-fee feature, the other for uhhhhhhhhh ...... let's just say for being Blizzard's first MMORPG and the other.

And now it all comes down to this:

Blizzard is traditionally known for making games that feature hardcore-competitive-all-out-deathmatch PvP style of RTS games with upmost care for balancing issue. Now this feature seems no longer be in Blizzard's plan of action with the WoW. The "left-off" Blizzard is not changing their stance for WoW. These guys really must have loved EQ or FFXI. WoW will be Quest based MMORPG, otherwise known as "multiple-single-playing-event-instanciation with annedocte of minimum PvP played in only restricted zone"

Now I hate to state this but SCREW YOU, you bunch of managerial WHORES, what were you thinking? no wonder why Bill Roper, David Brevik, and the Schaefer brothers Max, Erich, Patrick, Mike O'Brien and Jeff Strain and all the guys with them had to leave the company. I'm sure they are gonna say that's not the reason they left the company. But what do you expect from people who are always known as winners and doesn't wanna work anything less than winning game. I'm sure all this got to do with the vision issue.

Now Guild Wars dev likewise fans, it's time to show what's the right thing to do. I'm not even considering monthly-fee-free aspect of this game, but all the other things that Guild Wars promises. Just a pure Genius.

Who's sticking more to the tradition of Blizzard franchise, or more accurately who is the real "Blizzard"?

ParaTrooper · January 2004

Um....... Guild Wars..... Isn't that NCsoft not Blizzard?

higgsboson · January 2004

Originally posted by ParaTrooper
Um....... Guild Wars..... Isn't that NCsoft not Blizzard?

With all the respect to Blizzard, NCSoft or more exactly ArenaNet seems that it's going to be the next Blizzard.

In my view the current Blizzard is no longer the Blizzard I used to know.

ParaTrooper · January 2004

Well firstly ArenaNet is part of NCsoft.
Secondly i don't know what basis you comparing them on, Blizzard hasn't got a released MMORPG and NCsoft doesnt have a RTS or normal RPG. Are you trying to say that NCsoft will break into the RTS market?
Sounds to me like just categorising the company's overall good and bad, NCsoft has always done VERY well in the MMORPG market , Blizzard has always done VERY well in the RTS market with the warcraft series and also with Diablo. For me NCsoft will be the next NCsoft is the only way that statement could be put, they are already a very big company.

Raxman · January 2004

Arenanet is made by the former blizzard men like

Patrick Wyatt, former Blizzard senior programmer on Diablo and Starcraft

Mike O'Brien, former company director of Blizzard Architect of Battle.net and lead programmer of Warcraft 3, senior programmer of Diablo and Starcraft, a top 25 gaming industry person.

Jeff Strain, was the team lead and lead programmer of Blizzard's massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft He was also a senior programmer on both Warcraft III and StarCraft, and a programmer on Diablo. Jeff was the creator of the StarCraft Campaign Editor and was employed at Blizzard for four years.

James Phinnes started as a programmer at Chaos Studios, which later became Blizzard Entertainment. He worked on Warcraft II and Diablo, then as lead designer and producer on StarCraft.

Gaile Gray, is a writer whose recent projects include the Diabloii.net and WarCraftiii.net websites.

AJ Thompson, comes to us from the fansite community, where he was the webmaster of Diabloii.com

that's only those who worked on blizzard. or it's fansites. There are also people form other teams like Wizard of the coast, Valve, Squaresoft, Sierra etc...

I was going to have cosmetic surgery until I noticed that the doctor's office was full of portraits by Picasso.

ParaTrooper · January 2004

http://www.arena.net/about/index.html
"ArenaNet, a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCsoft Corporation, was founded by key members of the creative teams that developed the hit games Warcraft, StarCraft, and Diablo, as well as the Battle.net gaming network. ArenaNet will create a state-of-the-art, interactive game network and will design and publish premier multiplayer online games for a wide range of game players."

So i was right, but i see what your point is now. However i still must say that NCsoft would be huge even if it didnt have the ppl from Blizzard developing a game now.

Clever_Glove · January 2004

Now there is third party, the hyping party. These special breed of people specialize in spending their "after-hours" of work day sitting in their comfortable chair talking about games to be hyped with unprecedented resilience.

This is completely untrue. Many of us sit in our uncomfortable chairs at work.

With that aside, games made though idea's, methods and standards. This are in tact with or without the people that left. I think it's a bit near sighted of you to think they left because they didn't like the way WoW was shaping up. I'm sure it was much deeper issues. Secondly... so? People leave there jobs everyday it doesn't make the company sink. Companies are more than a small set of people. And it's very likely that those people worked on the "base" ideas on witch WoW is built from since those meetings took place in 98-99. (remember Blizzard server project everyone though was SC2?)

Is WoW like EQ... yes. Why? because EQ is "proven" model. Has Blizzard ever made anything innovative? No, they take what works then make it better. Wow is Blizzard making EQ better.

Hardcore PvP? because Blizzard made a few RTS's witch are PvP by nature? If I made a chess game over the internet would be "hard core" PvP? Look at D2. Was that hardcore PvP? nope, not even in hardcore mode was it "hardcore" PvP.

Blizzard is a company, they are 1st and formost interesting in making money. They will make the game whatever way they need to get the greatest number of people to play that.

As for the guys that left, I wish them luck, but until there is a game to play we know nothing about there company.

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Shmee · January 2004

Originally posted by ParaTrooper
Blizzard has always done VERY well in the RTS market with the warcraft series and also with Diablo. For me NCsoft will be the next NCsoft is the only way that statement could be put, they are already a very big company.

How could you leave out starcraft! far superior to warcraft in my opinion.

higgsboson · January 2004

Originally posted by Raxman

Arenanet is made by the former blizzard men like
Patrick Wyatt, former Blizzard senior programmer on Diablo and Starcraft
Mike O'Brien, former company director of Blizzard Architect of Battle.net and lead programmer of Warcraft 3, senior programmer of Diablo and Starcraft, a top 25 gaming industry person.
Jeff Strain, was the team lead and lead programmer of Blizzard's massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft He was also a senior programmer on both Warcraft III and StarCraft, and a programmer on Diablo. Jeff was the creator of the StarCraft Campaign Editor and was employed at Blizzard for four years.
James Phinnes started as a programmer at Chaos Studios, which later became Blizzard Entertainment. He worked on Warcraft II and Diablo, then as lead designer and producer on StarCraft.
Gaile Gray, is a writer whose recent projects include the Diabloii.net and WarCraftiii.net websites.
AJ Thompson, comes to us from the fansite community, where he was the webmaster of Diabloii.com
that's only those who worked on blizzard. or it's fansites. There are also people form other teams like Wizard of the coast, Valve, Squaresoft, Sierra etc...

I was going to have cosmetic surgery until I noticed that the doctor's office was full of portraits by Picasso.

I didn't know that Jeff Strain was the lead programmer for WoW. Where did you get this information?

What was the reason for him to leave Blizzard?

ParaTrooper · January 2004

Originally posted by Clever_Glove
As for the guys that left, I wish them luck, but until there is a game to play we know nothing about there company.

Ok so if NCsoft had arena.net as just a part of NCsoft with the NCsoft name....would u still be saying that? They have a reputation to keep. It's part of NCsoft thats all i need to know.

IngenJeggar · January 2004

I know this is Kind of off topic but found it interesting to say the least got this from the FAQ page on the Guild wars website.

Will there be a monthly fee for Guild Wars?

Although we are determining the final business model, there will be no monthly charge to play Guild Wars in North America; in Asia and most areas of the world, a variety of options will be offered using NCsofts existing infrastructure.

Looks like they are going for a different type of player or trying to get the blizzard faithful who are used to not paying for the likes of Diablo and warcraft to names some.
well just thought that was interesting.

Ingen Jeggar
My Little Project http://www.geocities.com/nathan4925/Ingen_Jeggar.html?1073511788187

ParaTrooper · January 2004

1)ahhh NCsofts existing sturcture is that ppl pay every month isnt it? weird

N sorry but i'm sick of people mentioning the Blizzard games around heer they got nuttin to do with anything. They arn't mmorpg's so it annoys me. Also i'm rather sure that it would attract players of ANY game not just blizzards old games and attarct MMORPG players sick of paying everymonth.

IngenJeggar · January 2004

I am sorry bout that but I just used them as to refrence the type of people Guild Wars is going after for their MMorpg. I will try and refrain from the RTS talk.

Ingen Jeggar
My Little Project http://www.geocities.com/nathan4925/Ingen_Jeggar.html?1073511788187

ParaTrooper · January 2004

yer but a free mmorpg, why are guild wars going after people that played Blizzards RTS' ? i find that stupid. A free mmorpg appeals to ANYONE who wants a free game, and it's a mmorpg so people that like rts' won't want to play it anyway because it's a diff type of game. They are going after the mmorpg community that doesnt or cant pay monthly fee's.

higgsboson · January 2004

Ok here is the point I'm trying to make.

I've been holding this thought last year when ArenaNet first announced its plan of release because its graphics looked like crap.

Now the game looks even better than WoW however few screenshots have been released on January 4.

It's free of monthly fee in NA. It has player skill rewarding feature and most of all hardcore PvP not just mere image of it but the one done right.

It will have no treadmill, no mindless leveling, no endless killing of dumb scripted monsters but real life opponents: thinking humans who goes by brain and not by the script.

I believe that game should let people create the game themself rather than make them follow the script.

The genius of starcraft game design was exactly that. It let people to create their game with infinite amount of strategy at their disposal

Camaalis · January 2004

Originally posted by ParaTrooper
Well firstly ArenaNet is part of NCsoft.
Secondly i don't know what basis you comparing them on, Blizzard hasn't got a released MMORPG and NCsoft doesnt have a RTS or normal RPG. Are you trying to say that NCsoft will break into the RTS market?
Sounds to me like just categorising the company's overall good and bad, NCsoft has always done VERY well in the MMORPG market , Blizzard has always done VERY well in the RTS market with the warcraft series and also with Diablo. For me NCsoft will be the next NCsoft is the only way that statement could be put, they are already a very big company.

He's comparing them on the fact that they guy leading ArenaNET is the man behind Blizzard North (The people who brought you Diablo). And in your first post I think you answered your own question. Blizzard is longer the company that brought us the likes of Diablo, Starcraft and WC1 and 2. They've changed they have different people at the top, people with different likes and dislikes for games. Personally I'm much more interested in ArenaNet as those guys who left and formed the company are really most of Blizzards old braintrust. So in light of this topic I gotta say Guild Wars is gonna take it.

IngenJeggar · January 2004

Yes I understand that, but wouldn t you think most People who play the free RTS want to play a MMORPG, or that s what they do in their free time ? I understand that some people play RTS because they like it. I m not taking that away, but I am just suggesting that there are probably more reasons then what we can come up with, then there are for them trying to put out a free MMorpg.

Sorry if I offended your Intelligence.

Ingen Jeggar
My Little Project http://www.geocities.com/nathan4925/Ingen_Jeggar.html?1073511788187

ParaTrooper · January 2004

Originally posted by ParaTrooper

http://www.arena.net/about/index.html
"ArenaNet, a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCsoft Corporation, was founded by key members of the creative teams that developed the hit games Warcraft, StarCraft, and Diablo, as well as the Battle.net gaming network. ArenaNet will create a state-of-the-art, interactive game network and will design and publish premier multiplayer online games for a wide range of game players."

So i was right, but i see what your point is now. However i still must say that NCsoft would be huge even if it didnt have the ppl from Blizzard developing a game now.

I dunno why i had to quote myself there, maybe u didnt read the whole threa? i understand

I can think of more reasons for a MMORPG player to play a free MMORPG than for a RTS player to play a free MMORPG

Camaalis · January 2004

IMO, the main reason its gonna be free has nothing to do with the RTS fans. By making it free their trying to take the Diablo 2 fan base. Many of those players love hack n slash and mmo's but however their not willing to pay the monthly fee. This is most likely the market their after since lets be honest Guild Wars is just better version of Diablo 2. It has the Hack n Slash nature, large number of monsters however it has a better quest model, better skill model and the way towns work is better overall.

BurnBabyBurn · January 2004

Originally posted by higgsboson

Originally posted by Raxman

Arenanet is made by the former blizzard men like
Patrick Wyatt, former Blizzard senior programmer on Diablo and Starcraft
Mike O'Brien, former company director of Blizzard Architect of Battle.net and lead programmer of Warcraft 3, senior programmer of Diablo and Starcraft, a top 25 gaming industry person.
Jeff Strain, was the team lead and lead programmer of Blizzard's massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft He was also a senior programmer on both Warcraft III and StarCraft, and a programmer on Diablo. Jeff was the creator of the StarCraft Campaign Editor and was employed at Blizzard for four years.
James Phinnes started as a programmer at Chaos Studios, which later became Blizzard Entertainment. He worked on Warcraft II and Diablo, then as lead designer and producer on StarCraft.
Gaile Gray, is a writer whose recent projects include the Diabloii.net and WarCraftiii.net websites.
AJ Thompson, comes to us from the fansite community, where he was the webmaster of Diabloii.com
that's only those who worked on blizzard. or it's fansites. There are also people form other teams like Wizard of the coast, Valve, Squaresoft, Sierra etc...

I was going to have cosmetic surgery until I noticed that the doctor's office was full of portraits by Picasso.

I didn't know that Jeff Strain was the lead programmer for WoW. Where did you get this information?

What was the reason for him to leave Blizzard?

They left Blizzard because basicly they were sick of doing mods and sequals and they felt that their creative and inteligent minds were being wasted at Blizzard so they left and made their own company know as ArenaNet although it used to be called somthing eles but i forgot :

Also i think we have hyped Guild Wars enough here so just let them decide for themselves if its a good game or not but they would be silly not to play it as there is no monthly fee

"Fear Not What Death Brings But Nor What It Gives"

higgsboson · January 2004

MMORPG.com just added Guild Wars discussion forum in "Games in development" section.

Now I just can't wait what other surprises Arena.net guys are holding from us.

Here is my other guildwars related thread in other forum.

http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/board/message?board.id=basic_pc&message.id=268462

BurnBabyBurn · January 2004

Hey great they saw my topic in the Sugestions forum. he he i thought they would just miss it and not do anything but hey i was wrong.

"Fear Not What Death Brings But Nor What It Gives"

higgsboson · January 2004

"As this site already has news on Guild Wars i think it is only right you give it a forum in the 'Games In Development' section as you have done it will all the others.

If you have a reason for not putting it up please share them, but if you read PCGAMER then you'll know it got into their top 20 games at E3 unlike most of the other MMORPGs you have up there i.e. City Of Heroes now who wants to fly around in a spandex suit all day saving cats stuck in trees? I don't thats for sure let alone PAY FOR THE PLEASURE!"

lol .... Apparently you are more vocal than I am.

But seriously I agree with you. If there is one game that needs real serious attention is this game.

Even my loyalty to Lineage 2 which by all mean is an epic game, is put on balance because of this one. I don't care what PCGAMER, Gamespot, or Gamespy has to say about it. I just know this game will kick major a*s when it comes out.

BurnBabyBurn · January 2004

But its always good to have the professionals on your side tho. I think ANet will come out of this little 'war' the winners because basicly GW is coming out first in 2004 and WoW is coming out sometime in 2005 and Blizzard still have a long way to go where as ANet have changed the GFX Engine and all the models and at the same time kept the same release date! now who do you think is more productive? i say ANet.

heh i guess i type i little more than you do bah but i was just sharing what i thought. Also i bet NC Soft are going to make a little tiny some of money from these games! lol they are hosting GW, Lineage and City of Heroes. i bet they are rubing their hands together right now! lol

"Fear Not What Death Brings But Nor What It Gives"

Malkavian · January 2004

@#$! and i just pre-ordered the open beta with final release for Linage 2.

This seriously puts my 2004 Midnight Gaming Madness on the scale...

I've given up on Wow. DAOC will always be there but I need some fresh blood.

But will it be Lineage 2 or Guild Wars.....

I'll start a new thread for my hunger.

- Malkavian

"When you find yourself falling into madness... Dive." - Malkavian Proverb

higgsboson · January 2004

Originally posted by BurnBabyBurn

But its always good to have the professionals on your side tho. I think ANet will come out of this little 'war' the winners because basicly GW is coming out first in 2004 and WoW is coming out sometime in 2005 and Blizzard still have a long way to go where as ANet have changed the GFX Engine and all the models and at the same time kept the same release date! now who do you think is more productive? i say ANet.
heh i guess i type i little more than you do bah but i was just sharing what i thought. Also i bet NC Soft are going to make a little tiny some of money from these games! lol they are hosting GW, Lineage and City of Heroes. i bet they are rubing their hands together right now! lol

"Fear Not What Death Brings But Nor What It Gives"

First of all, I've never doubted the competance of guys working in ANet, that's why I knew that they are going to do something about that horrible, blockish graphics they had in alpha stage. It just simply didn't make sense that they have this ingenious gameplay concept and billing scheme and come out with that shitty sort of graphics.

One other thing that I like about this title is the way they are planning with the release of this game. Instead of having one massive, large chunk release at the beginning which apparently takes forever and make fans more and more impatient, Guild Wars comes up with incremental release, in order word, piecewise or modular release, each piece being self-complete, some what smaller but fully featured and more detailed in term of how many graphical elements are put per given size of the map - higher ratio of numbers of graphical elements such as trees, plants, landmark features, etc for a given size of map.

My guess is that this kind of approach is more realistic in term of meeting the deadlines and demands of players.

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Guild Wars vs WoW (The two sides of Blizzard)

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Guild Wars vs WoW (The two sides of Blizzard)

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