This is exactly the mistake AoC made, what is going wrong with CF MMOs? Every time they can put a foot wrong they do.
Actually, Ashes created a BR, ostensibly to test the PVP mechanics which is central to it's design, though they also promised robust PVE as well.
So CU, which is very heavily an RVR centric game and limited PVE as stated by MJ ever since the KSer decides to build a group PVE seige simulator in order to test..... Err what exactly?
Outside of being a public showcase of the engines ability to render large numbers of NPCs on screen not sure about any other benefits.
I think FS:R's best chance at success would be on a console but I'm pretty sure CSE isn't planning such, so again another decision lacking any real foresight IMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lmao
"If FS:R is the success we hope it to be, even more people will be hired to work on CU only and your turn to see your game go LIVE will be shorter than you fear it to be. “"
So hes trying to blackmail people into playing this dross because it will speed up development of CU? Literally wtf, Roberts and Jacobs are just shameless.
lmao
"If FS:R is the success we hope it to be, even more people will be hired to work on CU only and your turn to see your game go LIVE will be shorter than you fear it to be. “"
So hes trying to blackmail people into playing this dross because it will speed up development of CU? Literally wtf, Roberts and Jacobs are just shameless.
Again... it's FREE for any backer. This is also the worst comparison I can think of.
Roberts and Star Citizen: Massive money raised ($350M? gotta be close) Most from Crowdfunding In your face, unapologetic crowdfunding Open Fly Free events that literally let you play before you buy
MJ and CU: $17M funding raised. $4.5M Crowdfunding, $5M from MJ, $7.5M investors Almost zero push for crowdfunding since Kickstarter. No sales. Nothing. New FS:R game is free to backers Total value of ALL accounts for FS:R listed for sale on website is < $30k Game is still under NDA and very little is shown
They are almost complete opposites. What they have in common is a demonstrated incompetence in budgetary and project management.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
lmao
"If FS:R is the success we hope it to be, even more people will be hired to work on CU only and your turn to see your game go LIVE will be shorter than you fear it to be. “"
So hes trying to blackmail people into playing this dross because it will speed up development of CU? Literally wtf, Roberts and Jacobs are just shameless.
Ever hear that adding more programmers to a late project tends to make it later? It's true.
I'm looking forward to trying it. If what he said in the stream is true and they can add stuff to this game with ease then features can't possibly be bad for long cause everything can be changed quickly. Right now there are 5 heroes but it's possible there are more being designed and they're using this first access to gauge player interest for what characters they release next.
It's not a battle royale and has no pvp so that leave it as a 100% pve game with possibly a lot of replayability.
Another thing to think about is that CU Backers are all 'paying players'. The amount of people who backed the game if they can put the resentment aside are already a bigger playerbase than many games similar to this one on Steam. I think that low 30k limit is there because if he can tap into the backer base for small amounts for Ragnarok with future characters, skins, etc then it can be another source of income. Think what you will of that but if there are no loot boxes and you buy stuff at flat costs upfront it would be alright IMO. If the game is fun and you can play it for hours a day I have no problem with them charging money. MJ whatever you think of him still was behind the creation of two great games that are still being played and has yet to release a crappy one. If this will be the first who knows..
My ideal vision of this game is one that has hundreds of different characters, individual unique deep progression systems, endless loot case, meaningful crafting, endless replayability and extremely enjoyable combat. It is a tall order but we don't know what his engine is capable of in an instanced 1 zone scenario/situation so I'm gonna hold out hope.
Here's the deal. A few years back Mark got additional funds ($8M?) from the investor group with a promise to deliver CU over the line by the end of 2019 or early in 2020 at the latest.
By summer of 2019 it was clear to any outside observer progress was still moving at a snail's pace yet Mark insisted it was on track but moment it wasn't he'd first let the investors know, and then the backers afterwards.
It's pretty clear he knew by September CU wasn't just behind, but perhaps several years more development remained.
So he pitched the idea of FS:R to the investors, asking for some additional funding to create the new title which could serve to bring in some revenue while effort on CU slogged endlessly along.
Sure, he told them development on the new game would benefit CU as well, same two for one "deal" he eventually told the backers about earlier this year.
Heck, if it was a big hit we can expect to see progress on CU accelerated even, but if it flops never fear, CSE has more than enough funds to complete the flagship title.... someday.
If it all sounds like a bit of "funny math" you aren't alone, most aren't buying this line of BS as it makes little sense, but hey, none of us are game developers so how could we know what is and isn't possible?
I'm not a theoretical physicist but I'm pretty sure no one is likely to invent anti gravity or FTL space travel any time soon.
Don't need to be a gaming lead to see this project has failure in its future as the most likely outcome.
I can't believe that what I imagine to be professional investors bought into his bullshit even further than the backers did.
What was the pitch? Investors, I realize that I was incredibly wrong on the amount of time and backers' money it would take to complete CU. But I promise that if now, you give me millions of YOUR money, we'll get it done well and on schedule! And they trusted him.
The investors run a business, if the game never launches they show a loss, which they can use to off-set taxes. While getting the full return on your money is always much better, it eases the pain when you know you won't be out the full sum.
I logged into Cu about a year ago, and then again a couple weeks back. Nothing changed, I mean literally nothing. I doubt I will regret saying this, Crowfall and Star Citizen will release before CU, and I really doubt CU will ever release. Just my opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The investors run a business, if the game never launches they show a loss, which they can use to off-set taxes. While getting the full return on your money is always much better, it eases the pain when you know you won't be out the full sum.
I logged into Cu about a year ago, and then again a couple weeks back. Nothing changed, I mean literally nothing. I doubt I will regret saying this, Crowfall and Star Citizen will release before CU, and I really doubt CU will ever release. Just my opinion.
I have had high hopes for Crowfall being that "ultimate custimization sandbox game" that I been looking for...but everytime they say a word about it, they mention full loot pvp. Dashing all my hopes and stuff. I'm a crafter at heart...I just like the idea of making stuff with my hands in a game then using it. Stuff could sell at normal price of the regular items of its class and I'd be A-OK with that. But for all that to go up in a puff of smoke once someone 1-shots me? Uh nope. Nope nope nope.
Now all that being said (lol!) it's the only game really on my radar now that Avengers released (and I'm really loving it!)
So holding the game hostage to siphon more funds out of his loyal backers. Nice job. Satan is proud of you MJ.
Not at all what was said or is even close to the actual situation.
Every backer gets free access to FSR without having to pony up anything.
Mark has also claimed CU will eventually be delivered regardless of the success or failure of FSR, though I well understand why many are skeptical of his promises at this point.
MJ may have many "sins" to one day answer for but certainly not the one you've noted.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The investors run a business, if the game never launches they show a loss, which they can use to off-set taxes. While getting the full return on your money is always much better, it eases the pain when you know you won't be out the full sum.
I logged into Cu about a year ago, and then again a couple weeks back. Nothing changed, I mean literally nothing. I doubt I will regret saying this, Crowfall and Star Citizen will release before CU, and I really doubt CU will ever release. Just my opinion.
I have had high hopes for Crowfall being that "ultimate custimization sandbox game" that I been looking for...but everytime they say a word about it, they mention full loot pvp. Dashing all my hopes and stuff. I'm a crafter at heart...I just like the idea of making stuff with my hands in a game then using it. Stuff could sell at normal price of the regular items of its class and I'd be A-OK with that. But for all that to go up in a puff of smoke once someone 1-shots me? Uh nope. Nope nope nope.
Now all that being said (lol!) it's the only game really on my radar now that Avengers released (and I'm really loving it!)
They are mistaken on full loot. What you have equipped ie: Weapons, armor, jewelry, and mounts cannot be looted, just what is in your regular inventory. I know a few people that do nothing but gather and craft, they really enjoy it.
Sorry didn't mean to de-rail this thread, but I mean honestly how much do we need to discuss a game that is never going to see release?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
So holding the game hostage to siphon more funds out of his loyal backers. Nice job. Satan is proud of you MJ.
Not at all what was said or is even close to the actual situation.
Every backer gets free access to FSR without having to pony up anything.
Mark has also claimed CU will eventually be delivered regardless of the success or failure of FSR, though I well understand why many are skeptical of his promises at this point.
MJ may have many "sins" to one day answer for but certainly not the one you've noted.
Exactly. I mean, if every single available FS:R account for sale was purchased it would net CityState less than $30k.
One could argue that he made a major mistake by NOT trying to sell more accounts and store items all these years but I respect the idea that he believes the delays are HIS fault and it would be unfair to expect the fans to have to pay for it. Instead he dilutes his share of the company. In theory that is EXACTLY what should always happen, but reality has shown that he just hasn't delivered anything of worth so far... So it's kind of a lose-lose situation.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You should. I got my pledge (which was done through Kickstarter in 2011) refunded when I asked a couple of months back. It did take a while but it happened.
It would be great if someone could convince EA to let them use the DAoC IP to literally make dark age of camelot 2 in all it's glory.
This would be a moneymaker. Original DAoC with updated graphics and animations, sell it.
CSE doesn't have the financial resources to build such a game which is why they chose to focus mostly on the RVR gameplay from the original, ostensibly to deliver a complete game in a shorter timeframe.
Yeah, look how well that turned out, will likely take 10 plus years to deliver their original design, a larger game...I should live so long.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Cart before the Horse. Why it's never apparent to these companies that you need a moneymaker first (The Horse) before the massive money hole that is an MMORPG (The Cart) is beyond me. Investors aren't an endless source of funding. At least they're not trying to continually fleece backers like some companies (Looking at you SBS).
These folk need someone exclusively there to crack the whip, to keep them on course. Their roadmap must look like a child with ADD darting back and forth between tasks with no coherent order.
Cart before the Horse. Why it's never apparent to these companies that you need a moneymaker first (The Horse) before the massive money hole that is an MMORPG (The Cart) is beyond me. Investors aren't an endless source of funding. At least they're not trying to continually fleece backers like some companies (Looking at you SBS).
These folk need someone exclusively there to crack the whip, to keep them on course. Their roadmap must look like a child with ADD darting back and forth between tasks with no coherent order.
Yep. Developers need a clear and concise idea of what they are going to attempt to do *before* they start worrying about funding. From day 1 to product release, the goal and all the major parts of that goal should be relatively constant. For entirely too many of these developers, that just isn't the case. The scope changes. Not due to government regulations or environmental changes. It occurs because the developers cannot formulate a concise idea into a solid plan and stick to that plan. The temptation to add new stuff, and to promise new stuff, is simply too great.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It's not a cash grab. It's a way to showcase his engine that he built so he can sell that. Advertising if you will.
I feel this is the likely case. I think they're hoping other studios will see the engine and license it for use bringing in additional funding.
I agree that this is a very likely scenario. It didn't start by promising to build an engine, it started with the promise of a game. They got into their game, realized how much effort it was going to take to make their engine to build their game, decided to try to sell that engine to finance the building of the game they promised, and decided a proper demo of the engine was necessary to achieve any sales. Good luck with that, especially since the probably customers for that demo game are the same customers you already sold the first game to, and those customers got that demo for free. That business model doesn't make sense.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I just noticed "First Access" a stepping stone on the way to early access. How soon before we have "First thought": I was sitting in my studio without a line of code written and I had this thought about a new game. Sigh.
Comments
So CU, which is very heavily an RVR centric game and limited PVE as stated by MJ ever since the KSer decides to build a group PVE seige simulator in order to test..... Err what exactly?
Outside of being a public showcase of the engines ability to render large numbers of NPCs on screen not sure about any other benefits.
I think FS:R's best chance at success would be on a console but I'm pretty sure CSE isn't planning such, so again another decision lacking any real foresight IMO.
Merry Christmas
Ho Ho Ho.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Roberts and Star Citizen:
Massive money raised ($350M? gotta be close) Most from Crowdfunding
In your face, unapologetic crowdfunding
Open Fly Free events that literally let you play before you buy
MJ and CU:
$17M funding raised. $4.5M Crowdfunding, $5M from MJ, $7.5M investors
Almost zero push for crowdfunding since Kickstarter. No sales. Nothing.
New FS:R game is free to backers
Total value of ALL accounts for FS:R listed for sale on website is < $30k
Game is still under NDA and very little is shown
They are almost complete opposites.
What they have in common is a demonstrated incompetence in budgetary and project management.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Okay, I'll hide back under the rock until this all blows over.
The investors run a business, if the game never launches they show a loss, which they can use to off-set taxes. While getting the full return on your money is always much better, it eases the pain when you know you won't be out the full sum.
I logged into Cu about a year ago, and then again a couple weeks back. Nothing changed, I mean literally nothing. I doubt I will regret saying this, Crowfall and Star Citizen will release before CU, and I really doubt CU will ever release. Just my opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
Who are you quoting?
Every backer gets free access to FSR without having to pony up anything.
Mark has also claimed CU will eventually be delivered regardless of the success or failure of FSR, though I well understand why many are skeptical of his promises at this point.
MJ may have many "sins" to one day answer for but certainly not the one you've noted.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sorry didn't mean to de-rail this thread, but I mean honestly how much do we need to discuss a game that is never going to see release?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
One could argue that he made a major mistake by NOT trying to sell more accounts and store items all these years but I respect the idea that he believes the delays are HIS fault and it would be unfair to expect the fans to have to pay for it. Instead he dilutes his share of the company. In theory that is EXACTLY what should always happen, but reality has shown that he just hasn't delivered anything of worth so far... So it's kind of a lose-lose situation.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You should. I got my pledge (which was done through Kickstarter in 2011) refunded when I asked a couple of months back. It did take a while but it happened.
Yeah, look how well that turned out, will likely take 10 plus years to deliver their original design, a larger game...I should live so long.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
These folk need someone exclusively there to crack the whip, to keep them on course. Their roadmap must look like a child with ADD darting back and forth between tasks with no coherent order.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.