no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
With proper pvp, POE is easy target
Ya PoE fucked up PvP really bad. D4 had David Kim working on balancing and that dude is a god. I think D4 will shred PoE2 and I have been playing PoE since alpha and was an Internal tester for PvP.
POE and D2 are the pinnacles(of their time) for ARPG. Neither have balanced PVP and that's fine. Because when you analyze what needs to be done to balance it you remove a tons of viable and powerful builds as well as affixes.
David Kim was a bad choice for D4 for the reasons you state. He dumbed down item affixes to try and normalize damage/defense numbers. It was met with well deserved scorn. His departure is nothing but a good thing and now he can go somewhere where PVP balance is actually important.
The more you try to balance PVP in an ARPG, the more it turns into MOBA character design.
With that said, people loved the one time POE Battle Royale event but they might not love it so much if it was a regular fixture, which is probably why it hasn't returned in some form.
I dont think they took David Kim off because he was bad for the project. Pretty sure its because he laid the foundation and is such a needed asset he had to help another project from being a catastrophe. If thats your sole reason for not liking David Kim, I dont think you entirely understand who he is and how talented he is.
no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
With proper pvp, POE is easy target
Ya PoE fucked up PvP really bad. D4 had David Kim working on balancing and that dude is a god. I think D4 will shred PoE2 and I have been playing PoE since alpha and was an Internal tester for PvP.
POE and D2 are the pinnacles(of their time) for ARPG. Neither have balanced PVP and that's fine. Because when you analyze what needs to be done to balance it you remove a tons of viable and powerful builds as well as affixes.
David Kim was a bad choice for D4 for the reasons you state. He dumbed down item affixes to try and normalize damage/defense numbers. It was met with well deserved scorn. His departure is nothing but a good thing and now he can go somewhere where PVP balance is actually important.
The more you try to balance PVP in an ARPG, the more it turns into MOBA character design.
With that said, people loved the one time POE Battle Royale event but they might not love it so much if it was a regular fixture, which is probably why it hasn't returned in some form.
I dont think they took David Kim off because he was bad for the project. Pretty sure its because he laid the foundation and is such a needed asset he had to help another project from being a catastrophe. If thats your sole reason for not liking David Kim, I dont think you entirely understand who he is and how talented he is.
Just because someone is amazing in one genre of games doesn't mean it will translate to others. Crystal Dynamics was well respected in terms of what they had designed and released. But hand them a multiplayer looter shooter in the Marvel Universe that is heavily monetized? Well it didn't work out so hot.
The D4 team has already deviated from his simplistic designs, whether or not he accepted his released designs were problems I have no idea. But I 100% stand behind the belief that pvp balance has no business in ARPG design. And I definitely think his simplistic offense and defense stats were a horrendous idea akin to TL3. Although that can be forgiven as a first iteration, his philosophy being applied to D4 really can't be.
I read up on him and he was well respected for balancing in SC2. Although SC2 never really reached the heights of SC1 in terms of tournaments and such. We've seen what happens when lead developers bring in simplistic design choices to diablo as we got Diablo 3 thanks to Jay Wilson's complete lack of understanding what made D2 and the genre so beloved. There's simply no way you can make a game with builds as varied and deep as POE while also balancing them all for PVP that 90+% of the players don't care about.
I don't like his designs or his emphasis on "balance". I also don't really like the idea of forced PVP areas with some unique rewards. Locking rewards to those areas will be a massive mistake and I expect them to eventually backpedal on it. As the alternative is uber balancing and the nerfing of powerful builds. Balancing for PVP also means that they have to be super careful whenever they want to release new mechanics, skills and such.
POE isn't quite burdened to anywhere near that extent and lots of builds emerge due to theorycrafting which is the antithesis to David Kim's end goal of strong balance. His philosophy can't coexist with a system where the developer releases things into the wild to be tested by players.
The (non ARPG) Total War series has a tiny PVP population yet the designers regularly nerf the fun stuff from PVE in order to appease the tiny PVP crowd.
If there was this massive untapped market for PVP-ARPGs, you can bet that GGG would have spent a lot more resources on it by now. They let people try it in small arenas and quickly learned what the cost would be to balance it.
no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
With proper pvp, POE is easy target
Ya PoE fucked up PvP really bad. D4 had David Kim working on balancing and that dude is a god. I think D4 will shred PoE2 and I have been playing PoE since alpha and was an Internal tester for PvP.
POE and D2 are the pinnacles(of their time) for ARPG. Neither have balanced PVP and that's fine. Because when you analyze what needs to be done to balance it you remove a tons of viable and powerful builds as well as affixes.
David Kim was a bad choice for D4 for the reasons you state. He dumbed down item affixes to try and normalize damage/defense numbers. It was met with well deserved scorn. His departure is nothing but a good thing and now he can go somewhere where PVP balance is actually important.
The more you try to balance PVP in an ARPG, the more it turns into MOBA character design.
With that said, people loved the one time POE Battle Royale event but they might not love it so much if it was a regular fixture, which is probably why it hasn't returned in some form.
I dont think they took David Kim off because he was bad for the project. Pretty sure its because he laid the foundation and is such a needed asset he had to help another project from being a catastrophe. If thats your sole reason for not liking David Kim, I dont think you entirely understand who he is and how talented he is.
Just because someone is amazing in one genre of games doesn't mean it will translate to others. Crystal Dynamics was well respected in terms of what they had designed and released. But hand them a multiplayer looter shooter in the Marvel Universe that is heavily monetized? Well it didn't work out so hot.
The D4 team has already deviated from his simplistic designs, whether or not he accepted his released designs were problems I have no idea. But I 100% stand behind the belief that pvp balance has no business in ARPG design. And I definitely think his simplistic offense and defense stats were a horrendous idea akin to TL3. Although that can be forgiven as a first iteration, his philosophy being applied to D4 really can't be.
I read up on him and he was well respected for balancing in SC2. Although SC2 never really reached the heights of SC1 in terms of tournaments and such. We've seen what happens when lead developers bring in simplistic design choices to diablo as we got Diablo 3 thanks to Jay Wilson's complete lack of understanding what made D2 and the genre so beloved. There's simply no way you can make a game with builds as varied and deep as POE while also balancing them all for PVP that 90+% of the players don't care about.
I don't like his designs or his emphasis on "balance". I also don't really like the idea of forced PVP areas with some unique rewards. Locking rewards to those areas will be a massive mistake and I expect them to eventually backpedal on it. As the alternative is uber balancing and the nerfing of powerful builds. Balancing for PVP also means that they have to be super careful whenever they want to release new mechanics, skills and such.
POE isn't quite burdened to anywhere near that extent and lots of builds emerge due to theorycrafting which is the antithesis to David Kim's end goal of strong balance. His philosophy can't coexist with a system where the developer releases things into the wild to be tested by players.
The (non ARPG) Total War series has a tiny PVP population yet the designers regularly nerf the fun stuff from PVE in order to appease the tiny PVP crowd.
If there was this massive untapped market for PVP-ARPGs, you can bet that GGG would have spent a lot more resources on it by now. They let people try it in small arenas and quickly learned what the cost would be to balance it.
GGG literally had 1 intern actually working on pvp. They did very little. You are comparing Jay Wilson to David Kim. Jay Wilson came from a FPS development background and is no where no as qualified or as respected as David Kim. David Kim isn't just a smart developer, he was actually very high ranked on SC2 ladders at times and competed with pros. Was he the best? Not really but for any developer to even come close is unicorn like in nature. I think you underestimate and are putting blame on him that you cant be completely sure he deserves.
and he is right. feels and plays good!
no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
Graphics AND Animation ( combat fluidity ). I can live without great Graphics, but oh man, I so miss the Diablo 3 combat in my daily PoE !
I really hope they will drastically improve this in PoE2. I have many "WTF" moments in PoE regarding the skill and combat animations.
Other than that, yes, Echoes is a pretty solid x-pac.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Ive player summoner for the last 5-6 leagues now so decided to go with a cold dot occultist this league, really not regretting it the build is amazing with mid investment, about 20ex currently, endgame will have about 60-80ex invested.
no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
With proper pvp, POE is easy target
Ya PoE fucked up PvP really bad. D4 had David Kim working on balancing and that dude is a god. I think D4 will shred PoE2 and I have been playing PoE since alpha and was an Internal tester for PvP.
POE and D2 are the pinnacles(of their time) for ARPG. Neither have balanced PVP and that's fine. Because when you analyze what needs to be done to balance it you remove a tons of viable and powerful builds as well as affixes.
David Kim was a bad choice for D4 for the reasons you state. He dumbed down item affixes to try and normalize damage/defense numbers. It was met with well deserved scorn. His departure is nothing but a good thing and now he can go somewhere where PVP balance is actually important.
The more you try to balance PVP in an ARPG, the more it turns into MOBA character design.
With that said, people loved the one time POE Battle Royale event but they might not love it so much if it was a regular fixture, which is probably why it hasn't returned in some form.
I dont think they took David Kim off because he was bad for the project. Pretty sure its because he laid the foundation and is such a needed asset he had to help another project from being a catastrophe. If thats your sole reason for not liking David Kim, I dont think you entirely understand who he is and how talented he is.
Just because someone is amazing in one genre of games doesn't mean it will translate to others. Crystal Dynamics was well respected in terms of what they had designed and released. But hand them a multiplayer looter shooter in the Marvel Universe that is heavily monetized? Well it didn't work out so hot.
The D4 team has already deviated from his simplistic designs, whether or not he accepted his released designs were problems I have no idea. But I 100% stand behind the belief that pvp balance has no business in ARPG design. And I definitely think his simplistic offense and defense stats were a horrendous idea akin to TL3. Although that can be forgiven as a first iteration, his philosophy being applied to D4 really can't be.
I read up on him and he was well respected for balancing in SC2. Although SC2 never really reached the heights of SC1 in terms of tournaments and such. We've seen what happens when lead developers bring in simplistic design choices to diablo as we got Diablo 3 thanks to Jay Wilson's complete lack of understanding what made D2 and the genre so beloved. There's simply no way you can make a game with builds as varied and deep as POE while also balancing them all for PVP that 90+% of the players don't care about.
I don't like his designs or his emphasis on "balance". I also don't really like the idea of forced PVP areas with some unique rewards. Locking rewards to those areas will be a massive mistake and I expect them to eventually backpedal on it. As the alternative is uber balancing and the nerfing of powerful builds. Balancing for PVP also means that they have to be super careful whenever they want to release new mechanics, skills and such.
POE isn't quite burdened to anywhere near that extent and lots of builds emerge due to theorycrafting which is the antithesis to David Kim's end goal of strong balance. His philosophy can't coexist with a system where the developer releases things into the wild to be tested by players.
The (non ARPG) Total War series has a tiny PVP population yet the designers regularly nerf the fun stuff from PVE in order to appease the tiny PVP crowd.
If there was this massive untapped market for PVP-ARPGs, you can bet that GGG would have spent a lot more resources on it by now. They let people try it in small arenas and quickly learned what the cost would be to balance it.
GGG literally had 1 intern actually working on pvp. They did very little. You are comparing Jay Wilson to David Kim. Jay Wilson came from a FPS development background and is no where no as qualified or as respected as David Kim. David Kim isn't just a smart developer, he was actually very high ranked on SC2 ladders at times and competed with pros. Was he the best? Not really but for any developer to even come close is unicorn like in nature. I think you underestimate and are putting blame on him that you cant be completely sure he deserves.
Um - they had more than one intern work on pvp - both the original arena that is still available and the one time battle royale. Any further work would require butchering countless builds to balance for PVP - they smartly chose not to.
Jay Wilson also worked on the well regarded RTS Dawn of War.
David Kims ladder rank in an RTS has no bearing on how well he understands or can design for a next gen ARPG. His strict adherance to pvp and class balance was a huge deterrent. The benefit of balanced ARPG classes in PVP simply does not outweigh the massive cost of doing so. It is not worth the energy and will not result in a better PVE experience.
and he is right. feels and plays good!
no way blizzrd can beat poe with diablo 4. "maybe" with better graphic. but definitelly not with the content.
D4 will never beat it in replayabilty and depth. But it will sadly still beat it in terms of income and peak player numbers at launch. My only hope is that D4 is a great option during late league POE.
I think POE2 should actually streamline a lot of systems and drastically improve the new player experience. The game is definitely overly bloated imo but that bloat does benefit the no-lifers(not meant as an insult). They've clearly decided(learned) that giving too much stuff to do and learn is far better than catering to newer or overwhelmed players.
yeah. as a casual player i only focus on mapping and delving. thats the only way i can make some progress. cant do everything. no time.
Comments
Im 2000 plus.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
What a typical response from some eurotrash.
The D4 team has already deviated from his simplistic designs, whether or not he accepted his released designs were problems I have no idea. But I 100% stand behind the belief that pvp balance has no business in ARPG design. And I definitely think his simplistic offense and defense stats were a horrendous idea akin to TL3. Although that can be forgiven as a first iteration, his philosophy being applied to D4 really can't be.
I read up on him and he was well respected for balancing in SC2. Although SC2 never really reached the heights of SC1 in terms of tournaments and such. We've seen what happens when lead developers bring in simplistic design choices to diablo as we got Diablo 3 thanks to Jay Wilson's complete lack of understanding what made D2 and the genre so beloved. There's simply no way you can make a game with builds as varied and deep as POE while also balancing them all for PVP that 90+% of the players don't care about.
I don't like his designs or his emphasis on "balance". I also don't really like the idea of forced PVP areas with some unique rewards. Locking rewards to those areas will be a massive mistake and I expect them to eventually backpedal on it. As the alternative is uber balancing and the nerfing of powerful builds. Balancing for PVP also means that they have to be super careful whenever they want to release new mechanics, skills and such.
POE isn't quite burdened to anywhere near that extent and lots of builds emerge due to theorycrafting which is the antithesis to David Kim's end goal of strong balance. His philosophy can't coexist with a system where the developer releases things into the wild to be tested by players.
The (non ARPG) Total War series has a tiny PVP population yet the designers regularly nerf the fun stuff from PVE in order to appease the tiny PVP crowd.
If there was this massive untapped market for PVP-ARPGs, you can bet that GGG would have spent a lot more resources on it by now. They let people try it in small arenas and quickly learned what the cost would be to balance it.
Graphics AND Animation ( combat fluidity ). I can live without great Graphics, but oh man, I so miss the Diablo 3 combat in my daily PoE !
I really hope they will drastically improve this in PoE2. I have many "WTF" moments in PoE regarding the skill and combat animations.
Other than that, yes, Echoes is a pretty solid x-pac.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Jay Wilson also worked on the well regarded RTS Dawn of War.
David Kims ladder rank in an RTS has no bearing on how well he understands or can design for a next gen ARPG. His strict adherance to pvp and class balance was a huge deterrent. The benefit of balanced ARPG classes in PVP simply does not outweigh the massive cost of doing so. It is not worth the energy and will not result in a better PVE experience.
yeah. as a casual player i only focus on mapping and delving. thats the only way i can make some progress. cant do everything. no time.