Add WoW's Transmog with a twist. Let you change your items to look like any item you have earned in game but make the cost be tokens you buy off the cash shop. Solves all the problems players have and makes VR extra money.
To be fair, EQ did this for years before WoW even existed, and they were putting out 1 expansion a year, sometimes more. Expansions were also around $50 each.
Since back in 1999, sub was $10 a month, that was around $180 a year, $230 if you also bought the Retail Box that first year.
EQ went up to $15 a month by their 3rd year in operation, and explained that this was due to the increased operating costs of the game. This was way back in 2002.
WoW just copied their system.
The fact that Subs have stagnated at $15 a year for the last 18 or so years is rather amazing all things said and done, I would have expected that it would been up to around $25 these days due to inflation, but apparently $15 was that perfect happy spot that gamers were willing to spend and no more. Funny how that worked.
Actually EQ didn't raise sub to $14.99 until after Wow released. They raised in middle of 2005. Probably followed WoW in this regard.
Not sure I understand where you pulling $180 and $230 from. 10x12 = $120.
EQ sold 360k units of Shadows of Luclin for 9.9mil by 2006. Thats $27.50 each.
Also with inflation $9.99 in 2000 would equal $15.50 today. So it seems sub prices are right on track barely low.
Expansion at $29.99 in 2005 would equal around $42 in 2021 using inflation. So expansion now seem to be selling higher.
So the only thing different is the cash shop gouging people for extra money over the top.
What's different is game developers and publishers came to understand they were leaving money on the table under their original monetization models, which of course they clearly have rectified since then.
They only way this ever gets reigned back in is if consumers stop spending, which I'm seeing little evidence of ever happening, barring an apocalyptic event of some sort.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Honestly, I once directly offered to fund thousands of dollars of dev time to fix something in AoC (when the game was live for 2 or 3 years). The Game Director made a very very rare chime in the forums to say they couldn't accept the offer.
Call me a whale, my personal account benefited nothing... it was for the health of all players & game.
To be fair, EQ did this for years before WoW even existed, and they were putting out 1 expansion a year, sometimes more. Expansions were also around $50 each.
Since back in 1999, sub was $10 a month, that was around $180 a year, $230 if you also bought the Retail Box that first year.
EQ went up to $15 a month by their 3rd year in operation, and explained that this was due to the increased operating costs of the game. This was way back in 2002.
WoW just copied their system.
The fact that Subs have stagnated at $15 a year for the last 18 or so years is rather amazing all things said and done, I would have expected that it would been up to around $25 these days due to inflation, but apparently $15 was that perfect happy spot that gamers were willing to spend and no more. Funny how that worked.
Actually EQ didn't raise sub to $14.99 until after Wow released. They raised in middle of 2005. Probably followed WoW in this regard.
Not sure I understand where you pulling $180 and $230 from. 10x12 = $120.
EQ sold 360k units of Shadows of Luclin for 9.9mil by 2006. Thats $27.50 each.
Also with inflation $9.99 in 2000 would equal $15.50 today. So it seems sub prices are right on track barely low.
Expansion at $29.99 in 2005 would equal around $42 in 2021 using inflation. So expansion now seem to be selling higher.
So the only thing different is the cash shop gouging people for extra money over the top.
That cant' be right. I stopped playing sometime shortly after Legends of the Ykesha, Released, Feb 2003, and I was there watching and paying, as the sub went from $10 to $12 to finally $15 a month, and I pretty sure that it raised to $15 shortly after Shadows of Lucien, but before Planes of Power, placing the transition squarely in the 2002 time block.
$180 = Sub + Expansion $230 = Sub + Box + Expansion (What everyone who joined the game in 2000 paid, LOL)
You also realize that Shadows of Lucien was released in 2001, again, setting the stage for what WoW and other MMO's would do, the price for SoL, was dropped repeatedly as time and other expansions were put out, till it was just put into a bundle pack.
I mean this is something anyone who plays WoW already is well versed in, and those that played EQ1, watched this brain child come to life.
So First Release of SoL is something around $50-60, all of us people playing the end game buy it at full retail, then PoP gets put out and SoL is now retailing for between $25 - 30 (50% off, because it lost its luster and now not end game anymore), Legend of the Ykesha gets put out, and SoL is retailing for between $10 - 15, so by the time we get to Gates of Discord or Omens of War, (2004), it's amazing that anyone is paying money to buy SoL, and in 2005 is gets bundled with a pack of other expansions, because no one will pay to get it on its own.
So just to put this out to you again.
$180 = Sub ($10) + Expansion ($50 - 60) $230 = Sub ($10) + Expansion ($50-60) + Box ($50) if you started in 2000, and not 1999.
By the end of 2002, the Sub fee for EQ1 was $15 a month.
If you were still playing EQ1 after 2002 it would be:
$210 = Sub (15/month) + Annual Expansion ($50 - 60)
If you Started After 2002:
$260 (Minimum) = Sub ($15/month) + Recent Expansion + Box
And that would be just for that years current expansion, not sure how much you would need to pay to also get all the previous expansions, and since your little stint about EQ1 still selling SoL as a stand alone expansion 4 years after it was released, going to bet they were not into packaged deals around that time.
If I add inflation from 2002, that would be around $305 dollars today's money.. annually, and that is if you were Continually Playing, not if you were just starting and needed to buy all the previous expansions and box.
So spare me how much modern MMO's cost compared to games of the past, It's peanuts, at my height, I was spending 20 a month, or 240 annual, and I was damn near what would be called a whale in GW2.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Huge success short-term or long-term? It would be interesting to see how that game from your case study is still doing today.
Without knowing the specific situation, they may have exchanged long-term success for short-term gain.
If what you suggest were true, "forum outrage never manifests in reality", then there wouldn't ever be an MMORPG that shuts down due to lack of players.
You are trying to say that if they have a cash shop, at least according to my example, that they will never financially fail? Or intimating I'm saying that?
One could use the same example for cash shop free to play games and say that because of outraged people saying they won't play the game if companies implement these things that it's a sure thing to fail.
There's a lot that goes into a game succeeding or failing. I don't remember the game as it was a long time ago but the point was that "forum outrage" pretty much equals a small percent of the player base AND that in that example, those who complained still used it.
People complained about the Dungeons and Dragon's Online and Lord of the Rings shops (still do) and those games are still running.
People screamed about the $25 mount in World of Warcraft and apparently a lot of people bought it.
People scream over Black Desert's high costume cost but I seem to remember an article on this site indicating they made an incredible amount of money in their cash shop (including other types of items of course; most likely driven by their enchantment system) so someone is buying.
"It's the whales!"
Well great, then that means either A, people who hardly buy anything to nothing have the whales to thank for the game they are playing, or B, the game was never meant for people other than the whales. That's a huge topic on its own!
So yeah, when I see outrage over x, y or z on a forum I pretty much ignore it as it's usually a small, passionate yet opinionated group who are voicing those opinions. And some of them (most to all?) have never made a video game or run a video game company in their lives. Yet they know exactly what needs to be done or "what you shouldn't do!"
I'm saying how do you know that the cash shop didn't ultimately lead to the games failure in the long run? Maybe had the company stuck with the subscription model (not angering their customers), they would have lost money short term, but been more successful long term.
Sure there's a market for games geared towards whales. If Pantheon wants to make one of those games, go for it. Last I checked, they were building a game geared toward old school gamers.
You don't build a successful company by angering your customer base. It's a terrible business model. Sure they may stick around initially because there is no other option, but as soon as something remotely better comes along they won't be loyal.
Why do you think Amazon is so successful -- Jeff Bezos knows the importance of customer satisfaction. You may pay a little more to buy some items through Amazon sometimes, but the good experience (2 day shipping, easy returns) is what people care about.
I can't speak for other games, but in 2009, Turbine came out and laid it flat out to their players that going F2P/Cash Shop was their last ditch effort to save the game. This was the Hail Mary pass to stay alive, and the players that don't like this and wanna cry about it, can suck it up and leave, because the only other choice they have is Turbine will have to shut the game down.
So the swap over to F2P, was, well, gamers are ginormous crybabies, so there were always some asshats that complained, but overall, because at least as far as DDO went, there were no illusions why they were doing this, it was a much easier transition to the new system and some players still have their ViP going from 2006, because they were given the honest low down. It's this, or it's dead.
Turbine was very sincere too, they told their population that if you want a game to play, this is how it has to go, and they also explained that this might not save the game, there were no guarantees this was going to work, this was an effort to save the game, sink or swim time, and they faced the very real possibly they were going to sink anyway.
And I think, that helped the community, at least the community that was there in 2009, that was told the blunt truth.
The newer players.. some never got that talk.. and it shows.
Did you actually play DDO when it was sub only?
The community went to shit after it went free to play. The game took a major nosedive.
I wanted to stick around but it was noticeably worse and the experience was just so much lesser.
I'm saying how do you know that the cash shop didn't ultimately lead to the games failure in the long run? Maybe had the company stuck with the subscription model (not angering their customers), they would have lost money short term, but been more successful long term.
Sure there's a market for games geared towards whales. If Pantheon wants to make one of those games, go for it. Last I checked, they were building a game geared toward old school gamers.
You don't build a successful company by angering your customer base. It's a terrible business model. Sure they may stick around initially because there is no other option, but as soon as something remotely better comes along they won't be loyal.
Why do you think Amazon is so successful -- Jeff Bezos knows the importance of customer satisfaction. You may pay a little more to buy some items through Amazon sometimes, but the good experience (2 day shipping, easy returns) is what people care about.
I agree, customer satisfaction is key. The company I work at is very customer-centric.
However, how do you know that them adding a cash shop wasn't welcome by all the customers who don't flock to forums?
Like I said above, it's a vocal minority who use forums and apparently who use forums and scream and shout and show their dissatisfaction.
Why do you assume it's angering their player base when clearly so many player bases use the darn things?
I should add that Stiefel said that they really needed more money coming into Dungeons and Dragons Online. I suspect in that case, without the cash shop it might not still be up and running.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Huge success short-term or long-term? It would be interesting to see how that game from your case study is still doing today.
Without knowing the specific situation, they may have exchanged long-term success for short-term gain.
If what you suggest were true, "forum outrage never manifests in reality", then there wouldn't ever be an MMORPG that shuts down due to lack of players.
You are trying to say that if they have a cash shop, at least according to my example, that they will never financially fail? Or intimating I'm saying that?
One could use the same example for cash shop free to play games and say that because of outraged people saying they won't play the game if companies implement these things that it's a sure thing to fail.
There's a lot that goes into a game succeeding or failing. I don't remember the game as it was a long time ago but the point was that "forum outrage" pretty much equals a small percent of the player base AND that in that example, those who complained still used it.
People complained about the Dungeons and Dragon's Online and Lord of the Rings shops (still do) and those games are still running.
People screamed about the $25 mount in World of Warcraft and apparently a lot of people bought it.
People scream over Black Desert's high costume cost but I seem to remember an article on this site indicating they made an incredible amount of money in their cash shop (including other types of items of course; most likely driven by their enchantment system) so someone is buying.
"It's the whales!"
Well great, then that means either A, people who hardly buy anything to nothing have the whales to thank for the game they are playing, or B, the game was never meant for people other than the whales. That's a huge topic on its own!
So yeah, when I see outrage over x, y or z on a forum I pretty much ignore it as it's usually a small, passionate yet opinionated group who are voicing those opinions. And some of them (most to all?) have never made a video game or run a video game company in their lives. Yet they know exactly what needs to be done or "what you shouldn't do!"
I'm saying how do you know that the cash shop didn't ultimately lead to the games failure in the long run? Maybe had the company stuck with the subscription model (not angering their customers), they would have lost money short term, but been more successful long term.
Sure there's a market for games geared towards whales. If Pantheon wants to make one of those games, go for it. Last I checked, they were building a game geared toward old school gamers.
You don't build a successful company by angering your customer base. It's a terrible business model. Sure they may stick around initially because there is no other option, but as soon as something remotely better comes along they won't be loyal.
Why do you think Amazon is so successful -- Jeff Bezos knows the importance of customer satisfaction. You may pay a little more to buy some items through Amazon sometimes, but the good experience (2 day shipping, easy returns) is what people care about.
I can't speak for other games, but in 2009, Turbine came out and laid it flat out to their players that going F2P/Cash Shop was their last ditch effort to save the game. This was the Hail Mary pass to stay alive, and the players that don't like this and wanna cry about it, can suck it up and leave, because the only other choice they have is Turbine will have to shut the game down.
So the swap over to F2P, was, well, gamers are ginormous crybabies, so there were always some asshats that complained, but overall, because at least as far as DDO went, there were no illusions why they were doing this, it was a much easier transition to the new system and some players still have their ViP going from 2006, because they were given the honest low down. It's this, or it's dead.
Turbine was very sincere too, they told their population that if you want a game to play, this is how it has to go, and they also explained that this might not save the game, there were no guarantees this was going to work, this was an effort to save the game, sink or swim time, and they faced the very real possibly they were going to sink anyway.
And I think, that helped the community, at least the community that was there in 2009, that was told the blunt truth.
The newer players.. some never got that talk.. and it shows.
Did you actually play DDO when it was sub only?
The community went to shit after it went free to play. The game took a major nosedive.
I wanted to stick around but it was noticeably worse and the experience was just so much lesser.
Hi, Welcome.
Yes, yes I did. Truth be told most of the attitude problem stemmed from the Sub players thinking that new F2P crowd owed them something.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
When people don't feel pressured to spend or just see maybe 5$ here or there it makes i very easy to bait them into spending.Then a week goes by,another 5 another week another 5-10 and next thing you know they spent more than a sub fee. Can a game make it w/o a cash shop,well idk FFXI is still going after 20 years and no cash shop. If your game is sub par then yeah you NEED that gimmick that baits in the easy target spenders but if your game is good people won't mind $15 up front each month.
The problem i have is that NEITHER option is a necessity,studios have been selling games for the past 35 years with no cash shops or sub fees.These are just lame ideas studios did to guarantee up front money to keep the employees around to make the next expansion. The problem is we have been paying for that expansion up front and devs decided to dbl dip us with both sub fees maybe adding up to 120-150 a yr+ another 50 or so to buy the expansion.
IDK what planet this seems normal but i have never paid 150-200+ bucks for a game and that is a FULL game not an expansion with maybe 5 levels and maybe one new class.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
BTW i play on private servers,NO cost,nothing at all,we just play and guess what,we often get BETTER and FASTER support for problems than on retail servers.
So don't go tell me how costly it is to run these servers,$15 is WAY mor than enough,the problem studios are tryign to get rich,greedy and pay all their board members 6 figure bonuses,that is really where the money is going.
Just look at how much money the Mike Morhaims and Bobby Kotick's were making,that is INSANE money,that is where all your sub fees are going,in those rich dudes greedy pockets.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you took say just TWO top execs from Blizzard's past and handed that money over to Pantheon,they would be living in on some high class resort sipping champaign for 20 years with no worries about money to make the game.
Those two guys were making around 60 million a YEAR,imagine if someone told Pantheon team they would be given 60 million a year,yeah exactly.If Blizzard can afford to pay just two guys that kind of money,you KNOW they are making way too much money,so ask yourself again if the sub fees and cash shops are too much over the top,your dam skippy they are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Uhhh... folks... they just announced a week ago they got a million dollar investor and then they say "maybe" they will add a cosmetic cash shop if needed like it's just some random discussion topic... riight..
Not sure if any of you enjoy walking down dark alleys after getting directions from the tweaked out junkie on the corner but there's a 120% chance the "possible" cash shop is already 100% decided on and the only question remaining is will they do what Ashes is doing and add the cash shop before the game even comes out.
At this point how can we be sure that Ashes of Creation guys didn't reach out to them, offer up an investment to follow their business plan of fleecing people of money for a game that may never come out. Two games out there scamming people is better than just one, right? You can keep that lucrative game going for years and years based off just promises and words.
If we start seeing limited time deals from Pantheon then you know whoever invested money recently isn't concerned about the game coming out just the money that can be made from it through shady preorder/founder gimmicks.
Uhhh... folks... they just announced a week ago they got a million dollar investor and then they say "maybe" they will add a cosmetic cash shop if needed like it's just some random discussion topic... riight..
Not sure if any of you enjoy walking down dark alleys after getting directions from the tweaked out junkie on the corner but there's a 120% chance the "possible" cash shop is already 100% decided on and the only question remaining is will they do what Ashes is doing and add the cash shop before the game even comes out.
At this point how can we be sure that Ashes of Creation guys didn't reach out to them, offer up an investment to follow their business plan of fleecing people of money for a game that may never come out. Two games out there scamming people is better than just one, right? You can keep that lucrative game going for years and years based off just promises and words.
If we start seeing limited time deals from Pantheon then you know whoever invested money recently isn't concerned about the game coming out just the money that can be made from it through shady preorder/founder gimmicks.
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my ass. Seriously, where do you get your information from?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
BTW i play on private servers,NO cost,nothing at all,we just play and guess what,we often get BETTER and FASTER support for problems than on retail servers.
So don't go tell me how costly it is to run these servers,$15 is WAY mor than enough,the problem studios are tryign to get rich,greedy and pay all their board members 6 figure bonuses,that is really where the money is going.
Just look at how much money the Mike Morhaims and Bobby Kotick's were making,that is INSANE money,that is where all your sub fees are going,in those rich dudes greedy pockets.
If we start seeing limited time deals from Pantheon then you know whoever invested money recently isn't concerned about the game coming out just the money that can be made from it through shady preorder/founder gimmicks.
Best point ever made here, Million dollar investors want to see HUGE returns. It's part of the hidden conversation we don't see.
Uhhh... folks... they just announced a week ago they got a million dollar investor and then they say "maybe" they will add a cosmetic cash shop if needed like it's just some random discussion topic... riight..
Not sure if any of you enjoy walking down dark alleys after getting directions from the tweaked out junkie on the corner but there's a 120% chance the "possible" cash shop is already 100% decided on and the only question remaining is will they do what Ashes is doing and add the cash shop before the game even comes out.
At this point how can we be sure that Ashes of Creation guys didn't reach out to them, offer up an investment to follow their business plan of fleecing people of money for a game that may never come out. Two games out there scamming people is better than just one, right? You can keep that lucrative game going for years and years based off just promises and words.
If we start seeing limited time deals from Pantheon then you know whoever invested money recently isn't concerned about the game coming out just the money that can be made from it through shady preorder/founder gimmicks.
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my ass. Seriously, where do you get your information from?
QAnon?
Nope. I always go to r/Wallstreetbets
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Uhhh... folks... they just announced a week ago they got a million dollar investor and then they say "maybe" they will add a cosmetic cash shop if needed like it's just some random discussion topic... riight..
Not sure if any of you enjoy walking down dark alleys after getting directions from the tweaked out junkie on the corner but there's a 120% chance the "possible" cash shop is already 100% decided on and the only question remaining is will they do what Ashes is doing and add the cash shop before the game even comes out.
At this point how can we be sure that Ashes of Creation guys didn't reach out to them, offer up an investment to follow their business plan of fleecing people of money for a game that may never come out. Two games out there scamming people is better than just one, right? You can keep that lucrative game going for years and years based off just promises and words.
If we start seeing limited time deals from Pantheon then you know whoever invested money recently isn't concerned about the game coming out just the money that can be made from it through shady preorder/founder gimmicks.
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my ass. Seriously, where do you get your information from?
QAnon?
Nope. I always go to r/Wallstreetbets
Ahh, so you are one of those new GameStop millionaires then.
Feel free to send any "extra" money you have my way, I'm good at disposing of it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While fundamentally I don't like the idea of having cash shops, they are becoming a necessity in a lot of ways. If an indie company can avoid cash shops and still support the game development, servers, etc, then by all means I feel that's what they should do.
With Rise of Agon we tried to avoid it as long as possible, but in the end we needed to bolster income so we could keep the passion going. We did try to think outside the box, however, to try to avoid some of the complaints.
For one, RoA is a pvp game and being able to identify what people are wearing is very important to determine how you fight them. This could translate over to a game like Pantheon where you want to be able to tell the difference between store purchased visuals and prestige in-game items.
First off, we opted to not allow armor to be covered so you could always tell what people are wearing. Second, weapon skins can only cover weapons of the same tier. For example if you are using rank 50 greatsword you can only skin it with a rank 50 greatsword skin. This makes it so when you look at a player you can see what rank and style of weapon they're using even if it's a store skin.
The only consumable items we have are fireworks.
You can purchase tokens for game time, similar to Eves Plex.
Special containers for your inventory for easier sorting, purely cosmetic as you can just use in-game bags.
The most "OP" items we have would be purchasable rune books. You can get rune books in game, but the ones from the store have higher capacity.
And no-drop common tools. Something that people wouldn't even consider carrying around normally and are dirt cheap in game it was surprisingly convenient to have without being a problem to those that don't buy.
Now granted our cash shop is weak compared to probably any other in the industry, I'm only posting this to point out that if you think outside the box it is possible to come up with items that can be purchased that will bolster the income for the game without breaking the immersion or gameplay.
For every million dollar investor equal's another loan that has to be paid back costing a rise in price. An invester is not anyone's friend, it's a business deal. Higher than a bank loan.
With every investor, means someone other than the costumer that needs to be pleased.
Think deeply about that !
Cosmetic shop is an absolute now, Funny how cash shop is in sync with another high investor.... Makes you think what the return on the investment conversation and promises that were made.
Investors is NOT a good thing. It means they squandered the money they have.
For every million dollar investor equal's another loan that has to be paid back costing a rise in price.
With every investor, means someone other than the costumer that needs to be pleased.
Think deeply about that !
Cosmetic shop is an absolute now, Funny how cash shop is in sync with another high investor.... Makes you think what the return on the investment conversation and promises that were made.
Investors is NOT a good thing. It means they squandered the money they have.
Umm, it sounds like you have gotten more and more into the big business model of creating games. Blizzard/Activision, EA, Tencent and Sony: they are the ones with the capital to not rely on loans.
Investors are critical to companies without capital. Especially one that failed their Kickstarter. Though I think in this case, it's obvious that they are stringing people along all the way to the end when they declare they can no longer afford to stay open. It makes me wonder about who these investors actually are.
While fundamentally I don't like the idea of having cash shops, they are becoming a necessity in a lot of ways. If an indie company can avoid cash shops and still support the game development, servers, etc, then by all means I feel that's what they should do.
With Rise of Agon we tried to avoid it as long as possible, but in the end we needed to bolster income so we could keep the passion going. We did try to think outside the box, however, to try to avoid some of the complaints.
For one, RoA is a pvp game and being able to identify what people are wearing is very important to determine how you fight them. This could translate over to a game like Pantheon where you want to be able to tell the difference between store purchased visuals and prestige in-game items.
First off, we opted to not allow armor to be covered so you could always tell what people are wearing. Second, weapon skins can only cover weapons of the same tier. For example if you are using rank 50 greatsword you can only skin it with a rank 50 greatsword skin. This makes it so when you look at a player you can see what rank and style of weapon they're using even if it's a store skin.
The only consumable items we have are fireworks.
You can purchase tokens for game time, similar to Eves Plex.
Special containers for your inventory for easier sorting, purely cosmetic as you can just use in-game bags.
The most "OP" items we have would be purchasable rune books. You can get rune books in game, but the ones from the store have higher capacity.
And no-drop common tools. Something that people wouldn't even consider carrying around normally and are dirt cheap in game it was surprisingly convenient to have without being a problem to those that don't buy.
Now granted our cash shop is weak compared to probably any other in the industry, I'm only posting this to point out that if you think outside the box it is possible to come up with items that can be purchased that will bolster the income for the game without breaking the immersion or gameplay.
IMHO that’s the worst case scenario for multiple reasons.
Firstly, it’s not very fair to a customer to change up the monetization after the game goes live and people are invested in it. I don’t care what is sold in the store. If you didn’t mention a cash shop at the outset then you have done the customers a disservice to introduce one mid game. You downplay the value of the items, but obviously some people thought that no drop tools were worth the money. Same with Runebooks. If you had a shop at the start or stated this would happen eventually then that’s a different story as people could make an informed decision prior to investing their time and money into a game with a cash shop.
Secondly, an effective cash shop would have to have been designed into a game from the start. Just tacking one on without really designing the game for it is very inefficient.
TLDR: If you are going to have a cash shop, design it into the game from the start. Don’t drop it in half-assed mid game.
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They only way this ever gets reigned back in is if consumers stop spending, which I'm seeing little evidence of ever happening, barring an apocalyptic event of some sort.
Maybe if it starts to look like this outside...
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Call me a whale, my personal account benefited nothing... it was for the health of all players & game.
$180 = Sub + Expansion
$230 = Sub + Box + Expansion (What everyone who joined the game in 2000 paid, LOL)
You also realize that Shadows of Lucien was released in 2001, again, setting the stage for what WoW and other MMO's would do, the price for SoL, was dropped repeatedly as time and other expansions were put out, till it was just put into a bundle pack.
I mean this is something anyone who plays WoW already is well versed in, and those that played EQ1, watched this brain child come to life.
So First Release of SoL is something around $50-60, all of us people playing the end game buy it at full retail, then PoP gets put out and SoL is now retailing for between $25 - 30 (50% off, because it lost its luster and now not end game anymore), Legend of the Ykesha gets put out, and SoL is retailing for between $10 - 15, so by the time we get to Gates of Discord or Omens of War, (2004), it's amazing that anyone is paying money to buy SoL, and in 2005 is gets bundled with a pack of other expansions, because no one will pay to get it on its own.
So just to put this out to you again.
$180 = Sub ($10) + Expansion ($50 - 60)
$230 = Sub ($10) + Expansion ($50-60) + Box ($50) if you started in 2000, and not 1999.
By the end of 2002, the Sub fee for EQ1 was $15 a month.
If you were still playing EQ1 after 2002 it would be:
$210 = Sub (15/month) + Annual Expansion ($50 - 60)
If you Started After 2002:
$260 (Minimum) = Sub ($15/month) + Recent Expansion + Box
And that would be just for that years current expansion, not sure how much you would need to pay to also get all the previous expansions, and since your little stint about EQ1 still selling SoL as a stand alone expansion 4 years after it was released, going to bet they were not into packaged deals around that time.
If I add inflation from 2002, that would be around $305 dollars today's money.. annually, and that is if you were Continually Playing, not if you were just starting and needed to buy all the previous expansions and box.
So spare me how much modern MMO's cost compared to games of the past, It's peanuts, at my height, I was spending 20 a month, or 240 annual, and I was damn near what would be called a whale in GW2.
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Yes, yes I did. Truth be told most of the attitude problem stemmed from the Sub players thinking that new F2P crowd owed them something.
http://www.everquest.com/news/imported-eq-enus-50010
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=5568
Can a game make it w/o a cash shop,well idk FFXI is still going after 20 years and no cash shop.
If your game is sub par then yeah you NEED that gimmick that baits in the easy target spenders but if your game is good people won't mind $15 up front each month.
The problem i have is that NEITHER option is a necessity,studios have been selling games for the past 35 years with no cash shops or sub fees.These are just lame ideas studios did to guarantee up front money to keep the employees around to make the next expansion.
The problem is we have been paying for that expansion up front and devs decided to dbl dip us with both sub fees maybe adding up to 120-150 a yr+ another 50 or so to buy the expansion.
IDK what planet this seems normal but i have never paid 150-200+ bucks for a game and that is a FULL game not an expansion with maybe 5 levels and maybe one new class.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So don't go tell me how costly it is to run these servers,$15 is WAY mor than enough,the problem studios are tryign to get rich,greedy and pay all their board members 6 figure bonuses,that is really where the money is going.
Just look at how much money the Mike Morhaims and Bobby Kotick's were making,that is INSANE money,that is where all your sub fees are going,in those rich dudes greedy pockets.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Those two guys were making around 60 million a YEAR,imagine if someone told Pantheon team they would be given 60 million a year,yeah exactly.If Blizzard can afford to pay just two guys that kind of money,you KNOW they are making way too much money,so ask yourself again if the sub fees and cash shops are too much over the top,your dam skippy they are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
View pub topic "management sucks".
Million dollar investors want to see HUGE returns. It's part of the hidden conversation we don't see.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Feel free to send any "extra" money you have my way, I'm good at disposing of it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With Rise of Agon we tried to avoid it as long as possible, but in the end we needed to bolster income so we could keep the passion going. We did try to think outside the box, however, to try to avoid some of the complaints.
For one, RoA is a pvp game and being able to identify what people are wearing is very important to determine how you fight them. This could translate over to a game like Pantheon where you want to be able to tell the difference between store purchased visuals and prestige in-game items.
First off, we opted to not allow armor to be covered so you could always tell what people are wearing. Second, weapon skins can only cover weapons of the same tier. For example if you are using rank 50 greatsword you can only skin it with a rank 50 greatsword skin. This makes it so when you look at a player you can see what rank and style of weapon they're using even if it's a store skin.
The only consumable items we have are fireworks.
You can purchase tokens for game time, similar to Eves Plex.
Special containers for your inventory for easier sorting, purely cosmetic as you can just use in-game bags.
The most "OP" items we have would be purchasable rune books. You can get rune books in game, but the ones from the store have higher capacity.
And no-drop common tools. Something that people wouldn't even consider carrying around normally and are dirt cheap in game it was surprisingly convenient to have without being a problem to those that don't buy.
Now granted our cash shop is weak compared to probably any other in the industry, I'm only posting this to point out that if you think outside the box it is possible to come up with items that can be purchased that will bolster the income for the game without breaking the immersion or gameplay.
With every investor, means someone other than the costumer that needs to be pleased.
Think deeply about that !
Cosmetic shop is an absolute now,
Funny how cash shop is in sync with another high investor.... Makes you think what the return on the investment conversation and promises that were made.
Investors is NOT a good thing. It means they squandered the money they have.
Investors are critical to companies without capital. Especially one that failed their Kickstarter. Though I think in this case, it's obvious that they are stringing people along all the way to the end when they declare they can no longer afford to stay open. It makes me wonder about who these investors actually are.
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Secondly, an effective cash shop would have to have been designed into a game from the start. Just tacking one on without really designing the game for it is very inefficient.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018