Microsoft's $7.5 billion Bethesda Acquisition Now Approved By The EU | MMORPG.com

System · March 2021

Microsoft's $7.5 billion Bethesda Acquisition Now Approved By The EU | MMORPG.com

The European Commission has approved the sale of ZeniMax Media to technology giant Microsoft, clearing one of the few hurdles left for the Washington-based company to acquire ZeniMax and the companies under its umbrella, including Bethesda Softworks.

Read the full story here

Wizardry · March 2021

Microsofts track record is good?Did yo unot see the abysmal state Sea OF THieves was released in and sold for $80?
Also their remake of AOE games was lol a sad sack lack of effort,like almost NO effort.
I also VERY highly doubt any game Microsoft actually developed had anything to do with Linux.
So just to check for myself i read a few articles on the AOE HD remake and Seaof Theives.
SOT article mentions an Xbox studios game therefor Microsoft has no intention of porting to Linux.
AOE HD again no Linux support although some user or two did try and make a Linux support program but was hit n miss.

So as i suspected ,it has nothing to do with Microsoft.So i checked one of the msot famous games made by Microsoft,Flight Simulator,NOPE ,again gamers several made working software so people can play on linux.
Verdict,Microsoft cares about $$$/business and NOT about gaming or the gamers.

Markn · March 2021

Mars_OMG said:

sad day. Microsoft's track recorded for gaming is very poor for p.c., don't be shocked if they phase out p.c. all together in the near future.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. What makes them is the sub service like xbox all access for PC and console. They have spent the last few years dedicated to this on every platform they would not have xcloud if they only cared about the console. Xbox is more a service now they dont care about out selling Sony in consoles.

Iselin · March 2021

Inb4 the amateur libertarians try to turn this into another "regulations are evil" discussion.

Approved by both the SEC ad EU as expected.

Looking forward to MS smartening up Bethesda QC teams.

EzRdr · March 2021

The folks commenting this is bad are really out of touch with Microsoft and how they've handle video games in the recent past. Bone up!

Gorwe · March 2021

While Microsoft has been very careful and handled games proficiently under Phil, what when he steps down? There's so much that could go wrong here. Remember:

We need COMPETITION(it breeds innovation, better prices etc) not MONOPOLY(sooner or later it goes south).

I don't like these huge mergers.

Kyleran · March 2021

Gorwe said:

While Microsoft has been very careful and handled games proficiently under Phil, what when he steps down? There's so much that could go wrong here. Remember:

We need COMPETITION(it breeds innovation, better prices etc) not MONOPOLY(sooner or later it goes south).

I don't like these huge mergers.

Except that

Gaming isn't anywhere near a monopoly situation and there's still plenty of competition in the market, unlike say cell phone service or ISPs.

Scot · March 2021

The history of gaming is not filled with the wondrous games made by companies bought out by larger ones, regardless of Microsofts recent record (which seems patchy not stellar as some are implying) this can't be good. But if you were saying would you rather EA had got Bethesda then obviously not.

Wizardry · March 2021

So far in the last 10 years or so there has been NO competitive market at all.Well there is oen and go figure people weere hating on the ONE entity creating an actual CHOICE in market and that is Epic games store.

All the giants are RIPPING off manufacturer's/developers with what is considered a standard of 25-30%.It wasn't long ago that kind of % was considered ILLEGAL on CC's because it would constitute loan sharking.

So what happens is when a good profit idea hits the market,other devs see it and just copy it.Just look at cash shops,what is there 10k ++ games on the market,you think cash shops are getting any better..lol/not.Mobile games getting less intrusive not a chance in hell.

Prices,well seeing SOT sold for 80 for a pile of trash,i would say prices are not welcome either.
Ok how about POLISH...nope worse than ever,this is what we get is copy cat devs,they aim to please themselves and NOT the gamer or gaming market.

So the ONLY good guy has been Epic,actually trying to LOWER the cost to devs wanting to sell their games and offering a very steady stream of free games and people crap on their parade.
So if ANYONE thinks Microsoft will EVER be good for gaming,you need to give your head a shake.Microsoft is just bad and scummy and sneaky,just lok at how it forces EDGE on to users and makes it near impossible to disable or delete,Microsoft had their way with no regulations or law,it would 500% worse.

Theocritus · March 2021

Scot said:

The history of gaming is not filled with the wondrous games made by companies bought out by larger ones, regardless of Microsofts recent record (which seems patchy not stellar as some are implying) this can't be good. But if you were saying would you rather EA had got Bethesda then obviously not.

I agree with you...I don't like seeing the bullies buying out all the smaller companies...It isn't good for us to have a handful of companies with all the power.

Gorwe · March 2021

Torval said:

Scot said:

The history of gaming is not filled with the wondrous games made by companies bought out by larger ones, regardless of Microsofts recent record (which seems patchy not stellar as some are implying) this can't be good. But if you were saying would you rather EA had got Bethesda then obviously not.

Why can't it be good because unless you have solid logical factual reasoning, it's just dramatic fear mongering.

It's not dramatic fearmongering. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Remember all the studios bought out and ruined by EA. Sure, Microsoft isn't like that RIGHT NOW, but huge concentrations of power are not good. Sooner or later it comes down to profit, company's structure gets restructured, devouring and destruction begins. That'll happen after people start getting complacent and allowing them to at first use 5% less effort then 10%, then we are at EA's levels. It's like the onset of disease or how Tyranids infest planets, nothing unexpected about it.

What else did you want? I don't have facts though, we are talking about predictions based upon similar situations. Sure, I shouldn't mix categories, but business is business in the end.

Palebane · March 2021

I used to dislike Microsoft, but they are making smart moves lately and are an excellent company overall,
imo. I am excited and hopeful that they can use Bethesda’s assets to make something great. Time will tell.

[Deleted User] · March 2021

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gorwe · March 2021

Torval said:

Gorwe said:

Torval said:

Scot said:

The history of gaming is not filled with the wondrous games made by companies bought out by larger ones, regardless of Microsofts recent record (which seems patchy not stellar as some are implying) this can't be good. But if you were saying would you rather EA had got Bethesda then obviously not.

Why can't it be good because unless you have solid logical factual reasoning, it's just dramatic fear mongering.

It's not dramatic fearmongering. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Remember all the studios bought out and ruined by EA. Sure, Microsoft isn't like that RIGHT NOW, but huge concentrations of power are not good. Sooner or later it comes down to profit, company's structure gets restructured, devouring and destruction begins. That'll happen after people start getting complacent and allowing them to at first use 5% less effort then 10%, then we are at EA's levels. It's like the onset of disease or how Tyranids infest planets, nothing unexpected about it.

What else did you want? I don't have facts though, we are talking about predictions based upon similar situations. Sure, I shouldn't mix categories, but business is business in the end.

I want fact-based concerns. If the concerns can't be distilled down to fact-based reasoning then it's just fearmongering.

For one, Microsoft doesn't have absolute power, so that analogy goes out the Windows (hahaha).

What studios that weren't already "ruined", stagnant, or going nowhere got bought out by EA?

You know what I remember now when I think of these sales? Not just big publishers buying up and ruining developers, but small studios selling out for the money. A studio releases a popular game, but then knows it may never see that success or revenue again. They sell out to big money publishers rather than take the risk and long road to building future hits.

Really, to me, most studios change hands and teams often enough that whoever made that magically great game probably isn't around to make its sequel 3 years later. I have little expectation that future titles by any studio are going to click with me. I may hope, but don't expect it to work out that way.

Of course, you were right about those studios. EA didn't kill off Mythic just because, it was sorta ailling when they were purchased and they were still lazing their asses off. For example.

As for the absolute power? Oh really? It's staring at you(this very topic) + they will most likely intensify segregation of game titles(opposite of what we want) + they can and will just purchase their competition and make them(and us) compliant in a way or another. As for the "good guy" image? The same as "teddy bear nerd" Gates. Smokes and mirrors, it's all built upon untold millions of $ invested in marketing(Gates himself admitted he started repairing his image quite awhile ago). They want to corner multiple markets(thus creating duopolies and such = bad for us) and Gates isn't good, look at his history(he was quite a brutal, cold hearted and remorseless taskmaster). Look at TRENDS, not what is now(or rather how now fits into those).

BeansnBread · March 2021

justmemyselfandi said:

Finally, some higher ups that won't hesitate to fire Todd and Pete.

Wut.

Scot · March 2021

blueturtle13 said:
No it is not always bad only sometimes.
505 Games
Capcom
Square
Focus
Take Two
WB Games
have done a decent job with their titles regardless of their size.
Ubisoft has done well with their titles regardless of their size and if the teams were indie I do not see the titles being any better for leaving Ubisoft but I do see them doing worse.
EA is always the fall guy name for why it should not be done while Microsoft is changing that idea from their perspective, changing a publisher's relationship with their customers into a relationship of value and choice instead of a relationship of adversaries and control.
I mean look at the vitriol about Windows store.
Instead of forcing players to use it Microsoft has been putting their games on Steam.
Just today 'Forza Horizon 4' went up on Steam to already Very Positive reviews.
Or 'Tell Me Why' which is also on Steam today and episode one is free so go grab it.

Good things and bad, it is a rollercoaster but to pass judgement on the present based on mistakes of the past or fear of the future is fruitless and pessimistic.
We should chose to not cast our gaze to the horizon when we can see the path in front of us. If the journey takes your travel down a path you do not support at a later time then create or find a new one.
Until then?
Enjoy the now.

blueturtle13 said:

Torval said:

Gorwe said:

Torval said:

Scot said:

The history of gaming is not filled with the wondrous games made by companies bought out by larger ones, regardless of Microsofts recent record (which seems patchy not stellar as some are implying) this can't be good. But if you were saying would you rather EA had got Bethesda then obviously not.

Why can't it be good because unless you have solid logical factual reasoning, it's just dramatic fear mongering.

It's not dramatic fearmongering. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Remember all the studios bought out and ruined by EA. Sure, Microsoft isn't like that RIGHT NOW, but huge concentrations of power are not good. Sooner or later it comes down to profit, company's structure gets restructured, devouring and destruction begins. That'll happen after people start getting complacent and allowing them to at first use 5% less effort then 10%, then we are at EA's levels. It's like the onset of disease or how Tyranids infest planets, nothing unexpected about it.

What else did you want? I don't have facts though, we are talking about predictions based upon similar situations. Sure, I shouldn't mix categories, but business is business in the end.

I want fact-based concerns. If the concerns can't be distilled down to fact-based reasoning then it's just fearmongering.

For one, Microsoft doesn't have absolute power, so that analogy goes out the Windows (hahaha).

What studios that weren't already "ruined", stagnant, or going nowhere got bought out by EA?

You know what I remember now when I think of these sales? Not just big publishers buying up and ruining developers, but small studios selling out for the money. A studio releases a popular game, but then knows it may never see that success or revenue again. They sell out to big money publishers rather than take the risk and long road to building future hits.

Really, to me, most studios change hands and teams often enough that whoever made that magically great game probably isn't around to make its sequel 3 years later. I have little expectation that future titles by any studio are going to click with me. I may hope, but don't expect it to work out that way.

Yeah it is a little simple minded to fall back to the easy idea of big is bad.
No it is not always bad only sometimes.
505 Games
Capcom
Square
Focus
Take Two
WB Games
have done a decent job with their titles regardless of their size.
Ubisoft has done well with their titles regardless of their size and if the teams were indie I do not see the titles being any better for leaving Ubisoft but I do see them doing worse.
EA is always the fall guy name for why it should not be done while Microsoft is changing that idea from their perspective, changing a publisher's relationship with their customers into a relationship of value and choice instead of a relationship of adversaries and control.
I mean look at the vitriol about Windows store.
Instead of forcing players to use it Microsoft has been putting their games on Steam.
Just today 'Forza Horizon 4' went up on Steam to already Very Positive reviews.
Or 'Tell Me Why' which is also on Steam today and episode one is free so go grab it.

Good things and bad, it is a rollercoaster but to pass judgement on the present based on mistakes of the past or fear of the future is fruitless and pessimistic.
We should chose to not cast our gaze to the horizon when we can see the path in front of us. If the journey takes your travel down a path you do not support at a later time then create or find a new one.
Until then?
Enjoy the now.

"Fact based concerns", well I don't think I have to explain what the problems with a monopoly are. Gaming is far from that, but every acquisition leads us in that direction. Of course not all acquisitions are detrimental to players and big is not always bad, but I think it is equally 'not factually based' to just think everything is going to be alright.

This acquisition occurred because of the decades old rivalry that Microsoft has with Sony, that's how the financial media sees it and I think they are right. This is about what gets released on which platform, not 'how to make the best games for players we can'.

I take the point raised by others about MS putting more games on Steam, but are we not getting any Sony games on Steam as well? Indeed is there not generally more big name gaming companies putting games on Steam and Epic?

P.S Views about Forza 4 are "mixed", but still early days on what Steams reception of the game will be. While checking it out I noticed a streamer in game playing a huge fruit (slot) machine. That's where gaming is now, but I am sure MS would say this is not gambling. Forza is considered suitable for all age groups, so get your kids on those fruit machines now!

Gorwe · March 2021

Here's how it begins, simply and insidiously: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/493228/microsoft-acquisition-of-bethesda-complete-confirms-some-games-will-be-exclusive-to-xbox-and-pc-m#latest .

Look, I have nothing against Phil and current Microsoft, but I don't like where this is heading. They now own huge studios, am not certain how good for us that is. Both for us and for devs.

Kyleran · March 2021

Gorwe said:

Here's how it begins, simply and insidiously: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/493228/microsoft-acquisition-of-bethesda-complete-confirms-some-games-will-be-exclusive-to-xbox-and-pc-m#latest .

Look, I have nothing against Phil and current Microsoft, but I don't like where this is heading. They now own huge studios, am not certain how good for us that is. Both for us and for devs.

No concern for me, I'm a member of the PC Master Race.

Now if MS can kill off console only exclusives on other platforms all will be great.

[Deleted User] · March 2021

The user and all related content has been deleted.

[Deleted User] · March 2021

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gorwe · March 2021

Torval said:

Gorwe said:

Here's how it begins, simply and insidiously: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/493228/microsoft-acquisition-of-bethesda-complete-confirms-some-games-will-be-exclusive-to-xbox-and-pc-m#latest .

Look, I have nothing against Phil and current Microsoft, but I don't like where this is heading. They now own huge studios, am not certain how good for us that is. Both for us and for devs.

What is insidious that is supposed to be obvious here? You don't like where what is heading? Again, pure fearmongering. We're supposed to be afraid and outraged about something but you aren't clear about what that is.

The point of misunderstanding is that I am talking about the most likely outcome based upon the (very) similar events in the past, while you are talking about the here and now moving into short future based upon facts. Different referent points if you would.

I could be wrong, but better be prepared, but wrong, than be caught with one's pants down.

Vrika · March 2021

blueturtle13 said:

Torval said:

Gorwe said:

Here's how it begins, simply and insidiously: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/493228/microsoft-acquisition-of-bethesda-complete-confirms-some-games-will-be-exclusive-to-xbox-and-pc-m#latest .

Look, I have nothing against Phil and current Microsoft, but I don't like where this is heading. They now own huge studios, am not certain how good for us that is. Both for us and for devs.

What is insidious that is supposed to be obvious here? You don't like where what is heading? Again, pure fearmongering. We're supposed to be afraid and outraged about something but you aren't clear about what that is.

People never reacted this way when Bethesda acquired all those studios.
Yet Microsoft does it and the sky is falling.
Publishers acquire studios all the time it has always been that way.
Sony does it and no one says anything.
Yet MS is an evil empire setting out to destroy the gaming world.
Silly.

There was never any fear that Bethesda would gain monopoly or dominant market position.

Even with Sony, it'd be unlikely that they could do it.

But Microsoft has two out of three largest platforms (if you don't count mobile gaming), and lately also their XBox games pass is likely largest in its own category. With Microsoft there's real danger.

I personally don't think we should react quite yet. But people didn't react before because there wasn't any danger before. Now there is.

[Deleted User] · March 2021

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Scot · March 2021

Torval said:

Scot said:

blueturtle13 said:

Yeah it is a little simple minded to fall back to the easy idea of big is bad.
No it is not always bad only sometimes.
505 Games
Capcom
Square
Focus
Take Two
WB Games
have done a decent job with their titles regardless of their size.
Ubisoft has done well with their titles regardless of their size and if the teams were indie I do not see the titles being any better for leaving Ubisoft but I do see them doing worse.
EA is always the fall guy name for why it should not be done while Microsoft is changing that idea from their perspective, changing a publisher's relationship with their customers into a relationship of value and choice instead of a relationship of adversaries and control.
I mean look at the vitriol about Windows store.
Instead of forcing players to use it Microsoft has been putting their games on Steam.
Just today 'Forza Horizon 4' went up on Steam to already Very Positive reviews.
Or 'Tell Me Why' which is also on Steam today and episode one is free so go grab it.

Good things and bad, it is a rollercoaster but to pass judgement on the present based on mistakes of the past or fear of the future is fruitless and pessimistic.
We should chose to not cast our gaze to the horizon when we can see the path in front of us. If the journey takes your travel down a path you do not support at a later time then create or find a new one.
Until then?
Enjoy the now.

First, I think you should probably explain what you think the relevant problems with monopolies are in this case. Maybe you meant market dominant large companies with the power to abuse that market dominance. Monopolies, in the US at least, are not illegal or even unethical. Companies with market dominance that abuse that power are a problem. As an example both Apple and Valve are in litigation with plaintiffs accusing them of violating anti-trust regulations by abusing their market dominance. Neither are a monopoly.

The confusing part is when you go on to state that "Gaming is far from that". By that I assume you mean no gaming companies are a monopoly which is true, but some gaming companies do dominate the market (e.g. Valve), but then you throw out your monopoly concern by stating that we're not in that position. So why even bring it up, to inject fear that some bogeyman situation might happen? Unsubstantiated on your part.

The slippery slope argument isn't supported and is a complete fallacy based on no facts, but rather a vague emotional plea that we should be concerned. Over what? What specifically, that isn't unsubstantiated emotional conjecture, do we need to be concerned about?

You don't know why and more importantly don't provide any facts as to why the acquisition took place, but make a claim that this is concerning. But let's assume, for a moment, it's due to business rivalry. Companies acquire and divest constantly due to "rivalry". Companies try to position themselves better compared to their competitors all the time. This is natural Capitalism in action.

Are we getting any Sony exclusives on Steam? Is the Last of Us 1 or 2 on Steam or PC at all as of right now? How about Uncharted series? To answer, no I do not think so. Meanwhile, we do have the entire Halo collection, the latest MS Flight Sim, Sea of Thieves, and Killer Instinct most of which which had been XBox exclusives. So Microsoft is clearly publishing major titles and previous exclusives on Steam. What major exclusives have Sony or Nintendo for that matter, published on Steam or Xbox/Win10?

I'd like to point out that Microsoft has pushed for cross platform play with their system on both Nintendo Switch and Sony PlayStation. Remember when Sony called out Microsoft for rejecting cross play. It turns out Sony was bluffing and has been grudgingly adding cross play while Microsoft did a 180 and embraced it.

So, I feel you've not well supported, with facts or reasonable (logical fact-based) arguments any sort of concerns yet. If there are specific concerns lets parse through them in a discussion, not create vague imaginary bad buy scenarios to wring our hands over.

I was sounding a note of caution, a response to how some posters seemed quite happy with the acquisition and comments like "All this is much ado about nothing."

What I am not saying is this is an outright disaster and we had best fear the worst. I thought my posts quite balanced in fact. This is why when you say I am fear mongering I wonder what you are talking about.

You can't abuse market dominance unless you have it, that's why monopolies are bad. Ok that was flippant, they can be good but there are more reasons they can be bad for the economy. The link discusses this, which I must admit I choose because it discusses the monopoly MS already has, though gaming was not the issue back then:
Monopolies: Definition, Pros, Cons, Impact (thebalance.com)

We have seen countless acquisitions of smaller gaming companies by larger ones, do you think on the whole that has been better or worse for players? That's what I am getting at here, this is natural in an economic sense, but not to our advantage.

Each time one of these companies is bought out there is the danger that gaming will lose good talent making what they know best, so this is not a slippery slope argument but the observation that this does not usually work out in the players favour. Sure Microsoft has a better record than EA, but that's not saying much.

It is not me that is asserting that this is down to market rivalry it is financial reporters that are doing that, I see no reason to doubt them:
Microsoft Acquires Video Game Company ZeniMax in $7.5 Billion Deal - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

You are more au fait with what is on what platform than I am, but you seem to be suggesting Sony is putting no exclusives on Steam, that is not correct. But yes Microsoft does and it seems they put more on.
Sony Will Port More First-Party PlayStation Games to PC (pcmag.com)

Well I need to go and wash my hands, all that wringing has got them dirty.

xpsync · March 2021

This is good for PC's, the only gaming platform.

Can't do everything on tablet, or an xbox, PS, or a phone that matter, but you can do everything on a PC.

Scot · March 2021

Yes when it comes to platforms I always favour the PC, that's a given for me but not the whole story when it comes to potential wider implications.

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