Nothing more than greed for money and or they can't afford to operate housing.
Plus of course there will be added bandwidth needed the more objects/items you load into a screen.
It is however doable because with the crappy Wildcard team behind Atlas,we have a gorgeous world and cab build anywhere we want.It will eventually get laggy if the world is just spammed with objects because we also have very good AI working the creatures as well and the biomes on top of that.
There is and has to be a limit at some point,no problem, that doesn't stop a dev from doing it.However if you are greedy for money ...ahem cough Blizzard why would you want to limit players per server and operate more servers and spend more money if you don't have to.
Al lthat is left once you get an actual dev that wants to give you a good game is for that dev team to put in the work to give us the modular pieces to build with.So again within Atlas we had pieces to build housing and modular pieces to build ships.This team was too small and could not complete the game but then what is the excuse Blizzard has?
Pretty simple,well not so simple actually.If the dev KNOWS they will have 10+ million players as Wow did you can force their hand to do the game right but nobody did,instead they just handed their money over to Blizzard like dumbasses.
However BEFORE the game is even made,devs don't know how many players they will have or where their profit margin will be so you can bet corner cutting ALL the time.However,then i ask what is the excuse AFTER you roll in the dough,well there is NO EXCUSE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Housing is very popular in two of the biggest MMOs currently running: ESO and FFXIV.
Elites need to remember that casual players make up the bulk of the playerbase and are likely to sub the longest IF a game offers more to do than just grind rep and gear.
Which is why ESO and FFXIV are doing well, despite the fact their questing and story are both very sub-par. Then again, they only stiff competition they have is WoW, which has an even worse story, a lot more boring grind, and nothing for the bulk of its casual playerbase to do that doesn't revolve around grind.
Housing is a marvelous "glue" to keep players in a game, too. I can understand why a strongly Themepark game like WoW doesn't want to bother with it, though. The aren't building a "world to live in." They are building a "game of content to play through." Housing just isn't as important to that scheme.
Any Tech people mind chiming in and explaining why Housing in MMOs been so limited compared to other progressions in the genre.
Seem as if, as Graphics have gone up, housing has gone down to not existing in most MMOs.
I'm not a tech person or in the game industry, but I have some thoughts.
Housing comes with some issues. It requires space. Lots of space. You can create instances for it, but that's not really what players want. They want their house to be on land, their land, in a place in the playable world. Somewhere that adds to their character identity and other people might know that they "live" there. They may even run a business from their house, and being somewhere in the regular world can give them added "identity" and an actual place in the game world.
Also, houses can be used for Guild headquarters or other group community places. More identity stuff.
Housing loses a lot of effect if it's "out of world" and lost in some separate instance.
So to be effective and not come with the complaints and regrets, the game world has to be built to include the space for Player Houses. And that's an issue for any game that's not dedicated from the ground up as a Sandbox.
I'm ok with instances but it would be nice to have a door or something in the real world I can put down myself. E.g. this tree is my secret lair... It only works for me and those I select.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I'm ok with instances but it would be nice to have a door or something in the real world I can put down myself. E.g. this tree is my secret lair... It only works for me and those I select.
Yeah, by instances I meant the entire housing zone being instanced like a magical otherworld. It doesn't give players that feeling of their own space in the game world.
I expect house interiors being instanced to be likely. I'd prefer that they weren't. UO, and maybe SWG(?), had items inside houses that only loaded when you entered them to unburden the load on players running by areas crowded with houses. That's a separate issue.
I love that idea of yours of a door on a tree, with an instanced interior in a pocket plane. I wouldn't want to see that as a common thing, maybe for select races and class types. Maybe as semi-rare magical spells or pocket sized doors that can be employed once, or maybe anytime and movable. Maybe it requires a specific kind of tree. Ideas like that are good stuff if they fit into the world in a special way. IMO.
Any Tech people mind chiming in and explaining why Housing in MMOs been so limited compared to other progressions in the genre.
Seem as if, as Graphics have gone up, housing has gone down to not existing in most MMOs.
Probably two fold reason.
Every item in a house has to be put somewhere in some database like item, description, location so deployment of the system would require a team.
Most of these MMO's are not built around housing as a primary entertainment anyway since most are gear oriented a few exceptions exist but over all the main interest in the game is kill shit for better loot.
Personally I do not know many people that use housing in games unless it is for storage and then it is just a bank. Like in ESO I visited my houses...never did anything except setup things that actually help me ingame.
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
That's just it though, SWG incorporated player built cities. Offering new POI's for players to visit, buy / sell, socialize, heal, buff or whatever. Sure, it could reduce player density in major cities, but lets be honest. When you're in a major city with 500 people versus 100 people, does that really have any impact on your gameplay? Aside from visual immersion, no.
Nice, never played SWG so hard to understand the positives and negatives of this concept. Just curious, I assume some spots in the city are better than others? What governs who gets what spot?
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
This I agree with and it's why I don't think they should have crafting or at least "expert high level whatever" crafting out of a house.
Perhaps all commerce out of the cities.
If the game was designed differently then items like ore or steel or "parts" would have weight and would have to not only be transported correctly but also stored in warehouses.
That could also help make a city viable but that's a different design for a very specific type of player.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
This I agree with and it's why I don't think they should have crafting or at least "expert high level whatever" crafting out of a house.
Perhaps all commerce out of the cities.
If the game was designed differently then items like ore or steel or "parts" would have weight and would have to not only be transported correctly but also stored in warehouses.
That could also help make a city viable but that's a different design for a very specific type of player.
That's my thoughts, too. I would allow shops out of player's homes, but with more realistic storage (weight and volume), and warehouses (player built and owned, including player run cities as owners if they choose, and all for profit and competitive) then things gravitate towards the cities. That still allows small stores operated out of Player homes, which can be a benefit to game play too.
"Location, location, location." In cities, around cities, or out in the wilds. This adds another game play aspect. In UO, some players would build a house near Dungeon entrances and sell supplies for quick resupply for Players.
These are things that add Sandbox to a game world, and make them more interesting (and profitable for smart players with a bent towards economic game play).
You need a ton of space to do it right. You need a ton of players to fill it out or it becomes barren. Without the industry shifting towards percedural and emergent gaming to fill in the blanks housing is kind of pointless. It is unlikely to happen at this point. Maybe Ashes of Creation will pull it off and it trends.
To me if you're not empire building with shifting content you just as well save the resources. You can do the house extra without the house.
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
This is exactly what the developers of WoW state as the reason why they will not do housing. It will empty social hubs, from their point of view.
Not saying I agree or not, but that's their official stance on it... maybe it's BS and there are other reasons.
Any Tech people mind chiming in and explaining why Housing in MMOs been so limited compared to other progressions in the genre.
Seem as if, as Graphics have gone up, housing has gone down to not existing in most MMOs.
It is not a tech issue, MMOs have been streamlined of gameplay elements deemed not essential to the core experience. Likewise guild housing, raiding, live events, any thing that does relate to the core gameplay. Of course this has made MMOs lesser games, but it was not done to make the games better it was done to make them cheaper to make and focus the player on the cash shop experience which became the live experience.
I should point out there was no grand plan here starting in the early noughties. This is just the result of several individual steps in MMO and revenue design which have led us to where we are today.
If you make housing exist in the world, then prepare to have tons and tons of empty houses all over the place. People will build them, and then lose interest in the game.
If you create a special housing zone instance, like LoTRO for example, with multiple houses in an instance, prepare for that instance to be empty whenever you visit. You won't have lots of empty houses cluttering up the world map, but your instance will almost always be empty of players.
If you let housing also do crafting, etc, then prepare for the city hubs to be empty.
What about a hybrid approach? Put housing in an instanced zone, but then also create quests from the world map that players do that will take them into a housing zone. That way, if you go visit your house, you may get involved in an attack by mobs and people who zoned in to fight them.
As for crafting, don't allow crafting at all in the house. But do provide a means to create resources, like farming, taming animals, etc. That way, you could farm wheat at your house, but you'd have to go to town to bake it into bread. You could have an iron mine on your property, but the forge is in town.
Player houses are a personal thing and unless you give a player really awesome combat usable rewards most won't bother. No one see's your house unless you want them to in most games that have such features so why spend hours and hours building a great house when maybe a half a dozen would see it and you really get nothing out of it that a 10 minute house wouldn't do? Having things like DAoC's original mode of auctions would help where players are heavily encouraged to buy from your house seller but the difference has to be big enough to warrant a potential 5-10 minute run to said players house. Still that would only help minimally.
Further a large portion of gamers aren't really that creative (myself included) and as such aren't really interested in such things. We would only bother if some major benefit for the game side we enjoy would be given and then many would also likely quick copy designs.
Nice housing is a double edge sword, I am in a dilemma as to housing.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
This is exactly what the developers of WoW state as the reason why they will not do housing. It will empty social hubs, from their point of view.
Not saying I agree or not, but that's their official stance on it... maybe it's BS and there are other reasons.
If you make housing exist in the world, then prepare to have tons and tons of empty houses all over the place. People will build them, and then lose interest in the game.
No, what you do is have house decay. In UO, it went in stages and took months to finally fall, dropping all the contents on the ground (which would decay normally).
If you create a special housing zone instance, like LoTRO for example, with multiple houses in an instance, prepare for that instance to be empty whenever you visit. You won't have lots of empty houses cluttering up the world map, but your instance will almost always be empty of players.
Yeah, I agree. Who wants that anyways. Put them in the world where players see them.
If you let housing also do crafting, etc, then prepare for the city hubs to be empty.
What about a hybrid approach? Put housing in an instanced zone, but then also create quests from the world map that players do that will take them into a housing zone. That way, if you go visit your house, you may get involved in an attack by mobs and people who zoned in to fight them.
As for crafting, don't allow crafting at all in the house. But do provide a means to create resources, like farming, taming animals, etc. That way, you could farm wheat at your house, but you'd have to go to town to bake it into bread. You could have an iron mine on your property, but the forge is in town.
You've got the right idea here, with a "hybrid" approach. But there's other ways to handle things. Allow crafting, and house shops to sell stuff. But cities can offer all the stuff they sell all in close proximity. Players will go there for ease of shopping if it's designed right. Bulk supplies of common items can be the province of city NPC shops. While available from Player shops, it take work to gather and organize, and a player's shop can run out, so it's easier and only slightly more expensive from the city NPCs.
But for specialties, that's where Player house shops can best serve the players. That's where the better gear comes from, with Player production.
I'm not sure if I'm making that point well, but think about it and I think you'll get the idea. Also, cities can offer things that players can't.
There's all sorts of things that can make both work well in a game. Other than shopping, you can have NPC temples, libraries, museums, etc., all with features that players can't offer (quests, information, world event stuff, etc.).
This is Sandbox stuff. Most game designers don't have the experience in it, or the understanding of how to make it work. It is sort of complicated in the grand scheme.
Comments
Seem as if, as Graphics have gone up, housing has gone down to not existing in most MMOs.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Plus of course there will be added bandwidth needed the more objects/items you load into a screen.
It is however doable because with the crappy Wildcard team behind Atlas,we have a gorgeous world and cab build anywhere we want.It will eventually get laggy if the world is just spammed with objects because we also have very good AI working the creatures as well and the biomes on top of that.
There is and has to be a limit at some point,no problem, that doesn't stop a dev from doing it.However if you are greedy for money ...ahem cough Blizzard why would you want to limit players per server and operate more servers and spend more money if you don't have to.
Al lthat is left once you get an actual dev that wants to give you a good game is for that dev team to put in the work to give us the modular pieces to build with.So again within Atlas we had pieces to build housing and modular pieces to build ships.This team was too small and could not complete the game but then what is the excuse Blizzard has?
Pretty simple,well not so simple actually.If the dev KNOWS they will have 10+ million players as Wow did you can force their hand to do the game right but nobody did,instead they just handed their money over to Blizzard like dumbasses.
However BEFORE the game is even made,devs don't know how many players they will have or where their profit margin will be so you can bet corner cutting ALL the time.However,then i ask what is the excuse AFTER you roll in the dough,well there is NO EXCUSE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I can understand why a strongly Themepark game like WoW doesn't want to bother with it, though. The aren't building a "world to live in." They are building a "game of content to play through." Housing just isn't as important to that scheme.
Once upon a time....
Housing comes with some issues. It requires space. Lots of space.
You can create instances for it, but that's not really what players want. They want their house to be on land, their land, in a place in the playable world. Somewhere that adds to their character identity and other people might know that they "live" there.
They may even run a business from their house, and being somewhere in the regular world can give them added "identity" and an actual place in the game world.
Also, houses can be used for Guild headquarters or other group community places.
More identity stuff.
Housing loses a lot of effect if it's "out of world" and lost in some separate instance.
So to be effective and not come with the complaints and regrets, the game world has to be built to include the space for Player Houses. And that's an issue for any game that's not dedicated from the ground up as a Sandbox.
Once upon a time....
I expect house interiors being instanced to be likely. I'd prefer that they weren't.
UO, and maybe SWG(?), had items inside houses that only loaded when you entered them to unburden the load on players running by areas crowded with houses. That's a separate issue.
I love that idea of yours of a door on a tree, with an instanced interior in a pocket plane.
I wouldn't want to see that as a common thing, maybe for select races and class types. Maybe as semi-rare magical spells or pocket sized doors that can be employed once, or maybe anytime and movable. Maybe it requires a specific kind of tree.
Ideas like that are good stuff if they fit into the world in a special way. IMO.
Once upon a time....
Every item in a house has to be put somewhere in some database like item, description, location so deployment of the system would require a team.
Most of these MMO's are not built around housing as a primary entertainment anyway since most are gear oriented a few exceptions exist but over all the main interest in the game is kill shit for better loot.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
On the one hand, I love housing, creating, designing, making it efficient, having something to call my own, adding my stamp to the game world …
However if they make housing too awesome, then people are going to be spending time there instead of in cities. The cities becomes vacant.
If they move, storage, repair facilities, training dummies, vendors and crafting to your home, what is the point of visiting cities? If your home doesn't have these things then what's the point of having a home?
So hard to decide what's more important!
Perhaps all commerce out of the cities.
If the game was designed differently then items like ore or steel or "parts" would have weight and would have to not only be transported correctly but also stored in warehouses.
That could also help make a city viable but that's a different design for a very specific type of player.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would allow shops out of player's homes, but with more realistic storage (weight and volume), and warehouses (player built and owned, including player run cities as owners if they choose, and all for profit and competitive) then things gravitate towards the cities. That still allows small stores operated out of Player homes, which can be a benefit to game play too.
"Location, location, location." In cities, around cities, or out in the wilds. This adds another game play aspect.
In UO, some players would build a house near Dungeon entrances and sell supplies for quick resupply for Players.
These are things that add Sandbox to a game world, and make them more interesting (and profitable for smart players with a bent towards economic game play).
Once upon a time....
To me if you're not empire building with shifting content you just as well save the resources. You can do the house extra without the house.
Not saying I agree or not, but that's their official stance on it... maybe it's BS and there are other reasons.
I should point out there was no grand plan here starting in the early noughties. This is just the result of several individual steps in MMO and revenue design which have led us to where we are today.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Further a large portion of gamers aren't really that creative (myself included) and as such aren't really interested in such things. We would only bother if some major benefit for the game side we enjoy would be given and then many would also likely quick copy designs.
Once upon a time....
No, what you do is have house decay. In UO, it went in stages and took months to finally fall, dropping all the contents on the ground (which would decay normally).
House falling parties were a thing.
Yeah, I agree. Who wants that anyways. Put them in the world where players see them.
You've got the right idea here, with a "hybrid" approach.
But there's other ways to handle things.
Allow crafting, and house shops to sell stuff.
But cities can offer all the stuff they sell all in close proximity. Players will go there for ease of shopping if it's designed right. Bulk supplies of common items can be the province of city NPC shops. While available from Player shops, it take work to gather and organize, and a player's shop can run out, so it's easier and only slightly more expensive from the city NPCs.
But for specialties, that's where Player house shops can best serve the players. That's where the better gear comes from, with Player production.
I'm not sure if I'm making that point well, but think about it and I think you'll get the idea.
Also, cities can offer things that players can't.
There's all sorts of things that can make both work well in a game. Other than shopping, you can have NPC temples, libraries, museums, etc., all with features that players can't offer (quests, information, world event stuff, etc.).
Once upon a time....