Originally posted by Squidi Is it me or does everybody who comes in here with a "I went back; it sucked" post play a Jedi?
Nope I hated Jedi. Matter of fact, built myself a toon specifically made for jedi-destroying. (Pikeman, the underrated melee profession.) Only time I ever helped jedi was because as guild militia commander I was forced to if action broke out in our city.
Originally posted by Squidi Is it me or does everybody who comes in here with a "I went back; it sucked" post play a Jedi?
/eyeroll
First and foremost, the majority of my characters are entertainers. This was my first love in the game and I find myself reluctant to relinquish it, even in the face of massive nerfing, intentionally planned gradual obsolescence and the very real eventuality of having yet another class I enjoy removed from the game.
No jedi about it. The things I loved in SWG are being removed, one combat upgrade/core game overhaul at a time. There is nothing that mitigates the inarguable sucktitude of being shut out of classes you love to play.
And while jedi may indeed suck now, it sucks far worse to endure the inclusion of horrible particle effects paired with the removal of once-fantastic battle animations, the seriously amateur terrain/landscape downgrade (ceramic tile grasslands on Dantooine and plastic block beaches on Naboo anyone?) and the mounting pile of brand new bugs created by the lack of forethought on the part of the devs while they slapped a half-assed FPS system over an engine not designed to handle it (ever tried to give someone an inspiration while playing a nalgaron or ommni box? Course not, you're not an ent.)
Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
Originally posted by Squidi Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
Congratulations, you have completely blown my mind. Did some dancer give you a wedgie when you were a kid or something?
Originally posted by KenshuAni Originally posted by Squidi Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
Congratulations, you have completely blown my mind. Did some dancer give you a wedgie when you were a kid or something?
I actually somewhat agree with him . It makes no sense to me to make a profession that is totally dependant on others for their content , If they aren't around you have absolutely nothing to do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now to business... This talk about doc/entertainers being useless. Everyone seems to love the community that is swg. Do you guys realize what originally created this?
People wounded in medcenters waiting for their turn to be healed, guess what they do? Start talking to strangers to pass the time.
People in cantinas waiting to get their mind and/or BF healed... what do they do to pass the time? communicate.
These so called "middle man" professions are the fundemental reason why swg has such a great community. In other MMO's interaction with strangers pretty much evolves around "LFG!" and "LF1M!" shouts on general chat channels.
Yes, I have played SWG since euro launch.
No I'm not currently subscribed
Yes I follow whats going on in SWG on a daily basis hoping for improvement.
------------------- Derran Vlegg ex Euro-Chimaera village idiot.
Originally posted by Squidi Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
You know, Squidi, I'd actually typed out four paragraphs of arguement about how very offensive your opinion is. And then I realized not only was I wasting my time, but that you are beyond reasoning with. I suspect that camp dancers were just another annoyance to you and that roleplay in your world has no place in an MMORPG.
Those things that men cannot understand, they hate.
Let it suffice to say that a lack of understanding and limited ability to envision cheapened the entire game.
Originally posted by azhrarn Originally posted by Squidi Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
You know, Squidi, I'd actually typed out four paragraphs of arguement about how very offensive your opinion is. And then I realized not only was I wasting my time, but that you are beyond reasoning with. I suspect that camp dancers were just another annoyance to you and that roleplay in your world has no place in an MMORPG.
Those things that men cannot understand, they hate.
Let it suffice to say that a lack of understanding and limited ability to envision cheapened the entire game.
Actually I think Kai hit the nail on the head with his thread .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now to business... This talk about doc/entertainers being useless. Everyone seems to love the community that is swg. Do you guys realize what originally created this?
People wounded in medcenters waiting for their turn to be healed, guess what they do? Start talking to strangers to pass the time.
People in cantinas waiting to get their mind and/or BF healed... what do they do to pass the time? communicate.
These so called "middle man" professions are the fundemental reason why swg has such a great community. In other MMO's interaction with strangers pretty much evolves around "LFG!" and "LF1M!" shouts on general chat channels.
Yes, I have played SWG since euro launch.
No I'm not currently subscribed
Yes I follow whats going on in SWG on a daily basis hoping for improvement.
------------------- Derran Vlegg ex Euro-Chimaera village idiot.
I agree the community was great noone would argue against that . I don't recall anyone saying they were useless , Just that certain concepts within were flawed . As i said before baseing content off other players is all fine and dandy , Until they arent around . In that case Squidi is right , What do you have to do ?
I am looking at it from the Dancers point of view (docs were fine they could do other things , IMO the idea of buffing and healing were great , It did add to community releations in a major way . But the profession itself was based around that , Pre-nge they had it better they coudl create hybrid ents now(no people)=absolutely nothing to do but stare at walls and listen to the same music over and over , that we have all heard for way to long .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by azhrarn Mali, fresh my memory on that one? Drawing a blank on the referenced Kai-thread....
"Learned how to code it " one or two threads down .
LOL hadn't gotten to that one yet.
/run
Okay, read it. While I'm quite sure that it is indeed the case that the current set of programmers they have on SWG is not up to the challenges of fixing the game, and that they no doubt swap out programmers between games and projects in overfrequent internal restructuring, this by no means makes any case for there being any justification for putting a live game through the kinds of changes SWG has gone through and continues to suffer.
I do feel a bit sorry for the devs themselves, as human beings, from time to time. But then one or more of them will open their mouths and say things that just make me stop lactating the milk of human kindness. These guys are lost in the woods as far as SWG is concerned. They and their management is about as far from a professional act as the game is from being polished and ready for live paid play.
And the thing that really makes my head explode is that I really think they BELIEVE they're not just headed in the right direction, but that they're doing a great job. It's an awful lot like a routing noob who's read a few Cisco books and tinkered with a small network thinking he's a senior backbone engineer when he can't program a basic BGP setup without a premade cheat sheet. There's only so much you can strip down and kludge out with the ghetto coding before your network (or your game) falls down and goes boom.
Just looking at the game as a player, I'm willing to wager that if a pro set of coders had a look at the current game, module by module, their heads would explode.
Originally posted by Squidi Azhrarn, you do know that you can turn OFF the specular highlighting in the options if the shiny ground bothers you so much.
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
I think you thrive on the ire you draw here.
"You cant mix socializing and gameplay"
You cant mix socializing and gameplay? what? Did you know you were playing an mmo? Wasnt that the entire point of making an mmo, to mix socializing and gameplay? I understand a little better now why you like the nge so much, since you consider interaction with other people an "extraneous step".
Originally posted by Squidi Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
Squidi, wth are u talking about man? I met quite a good number of genuine entertainers who did it for sheer fun. Heck, I am forever thankfull to the entertainer profession, it got my girlfriend addicted to the game. If it hadn't been for that, it would have never been the awesome experience it turned out to be for the 2 of us.
I myself did some entertaining when I started playing because I liked listening to the different instruments, was curious about the "next tune", as well as having a hearty laugh almost everynight when I synch-danced with my gf, the dances were so silly it was actually amusing to dabble with the flourishes.
A few month later, I eventually grinded the entire entertainer and its elite professions. It was a long grind. Yes, I did AFK grinding when I went to bed, meals, etc. But during the day I was there, I have the screenies to prove it. Either maintaining the group, kicking snoozers off, allowing new ppl in, talking to "customers" so they'd listen/watched our group preferrably. I worked it, really, it was fun. I can genuinly say with a straight face that I enjoyed grinding entertainer, more so than many combat professions.
In the end I made a bunch of good friends, heard a lot of fun stories, and learned lots about game mechanics and macro building. I was glad to stop when I finally mastered the last proff because I did it continuously for an entire week, always live, and I was tired from the effort, but by no means bored with it. As a matter of fact, I kept TKM and MMusician combo for a few days more and worked the catinas with some of the entertainer friends I made just because they really were fun to hang out with. Jumping on the nalargon or throwing the mandoviol up in the air did amuse me much, what can I say?
I am sorry if you never experienced it like that. I guess you missed out on that part of the game. It happens.
No hate for you here, just making a point for the entertainers' cause.
Originally posted by azhrarn You know, Squidi, I'd actually typed out four paragraphs of arguement about how very offensive your opinion is. And then I realized not only was I wasting my time, but that you are beyond reasoning with. I suspect that camp dancers were just another annoyance to you and that roleplay in your world has no place in an MMORPG.
Those things that men cannot understand, they hate.
Let it suffice to say that a lack of understanding and limited ability to envision cheapened the entire game.
FORCED roleplay has no place in a game with a variety of players, not all of whom share the same gameplay goals or philosophy. I have nothing against roleplay. I do it on the EQ2 server I play on (Lucan Dlere). But when the expectations of the player and designer don't mix, then you've created a system where people will min-max socialization in order to excel at the game quickly - and when you min-max social encounters, you've got a huge problem that DESTROYS social circles.
I take it that you absolutely do not support AFK entertainers? What about in pre-CU where doctors would have tumblers who would intentionally hurt themselves so they could grind healing xp? I mean, how are you supposed to make money on tips or cover charges when there will always be someone next to you AFK (as a general rule, I don't think most people tip or tip well AFK bots) without a cover charge? Same thing with crafters and a player economy? How are you supposed to make money as a crafter when all the other crafters are grinding to master (since their goods are not competitive early on without experimentation points) and selling that stuff for bottom dollar? You only sell the top tier stuff, meaning all the lower players have to be content with vendor trash - which is usually 10,000 gungan head statues rather than the items you really need.
And what happens when you've got players who are forced to rely on these services that can't GET these services because the few real human players left are impossible to find? Pre-CU, I got poisoned by the Sarlacc Pit and couldn't find a doctor in any of the med centers to fix me. Not a single one. Then I went around to all the major starports asking if anyone there was a doctor, and couldn't find one there either.
You can NOT mix socializing and gameplay because you can never allow socializing to be min-maxed. That's why you end up with crappy people in the groups you were forced to join. Whatever benefits you think you get from forcing players to do that kind of stuff you would have ANYWAY, because social players will be social, even if you go to extreme lengths to stop them. It's just who they are. And yes, I understand that they appreciate and want gameplay that supports who they are, just like I want gameplay that supports who I am, but you and them have to understand that gameplay is something that ALL people participate in and if they have to be like you, they will make being like you into a game.
One of the things that drew me to SWG was the fact that is was beyond the norm in MMORPGs. A variety of people came there to do a variety of things and what reallly amazed me about it was that they were happy do do it. Games like CoH and WoW were great action games but that was just it. Everyone there was a fighter type and combat oriented. This presents a rather one sided reality to the gaming world and to me was rather unimmersive. True, you could sit around and socialize but still that was Role Playing Lite.
When I came into SWG (PreCU), I walked into Cantinas and they were active scenes being played out by people who enjoyed participating. Dancers talked to you, conversations were had and in the end - you were immersed into the world. I too got a disease and had to find a doc to try and take it off of me. I hit several cities before I managed to find one. Had things been proper - the docs would have been in town and the fix would be had but sadly the dev's had not thought through some of their changes and next thing you know - we had afk docs and tumblers. However, when the pieces were in place - I got healed, commerce happened and it played itself out properly. The idea of AFK bots in general should have been done away with.
The argument comes down to how much of realistic and immersive world you want. If you want to go the way of WoW and CoH (fine games true) where you show up to wage war 90% of the time - fine. The community attracts pvpers, war mongers, uberlooters and so on as well as good action oriented players. If you want to have an interactive, thriving community with diversity beyond the kill kill kill mindset - entertainers, docs, image designers as professions are a must because they attract different kind of gamers and bring into the game more diversity and thus a richer experience.
Some of my fondest moments involve entertainers, image designers and the other nonaction profs. Some of the best players I met were people who soley played these characters. Without them, I would have lived in a 3rd world demilitarized zone in which there was constant war and no respite. With them, I fond community and a 2nd home.
I did my check test of SWG about a month ago and cancelled the account again after about a week of trail and error. I like some of the changes and find the game has a bit more enjoyment at times. However, it's the lack of rewards and the difficulty of questing without a group of people that made keeping an open account impossible for me.
Attempting to find a game that is both fun to play and something that can be enjoyed for months at a time has been very challenging (playing Auto Assault at the moment and having a blast). I hope SWG gets its act together sometime in the near future because I really like many of the concepts the game brings to the table.
I'd feel bad for you if I wasn't so busy wanting to slap you. I never had any trouble finding a doc to heal my poison, dancers to heal my mind, weaponsmiths to make my weapons to spec, armorsmiths to make me just the right armors in just the right colors... until after the cu hit. And then it was more challenging to get these things taken care of... but not impossible.
YOU say forced gameplay is bad. But you completely gloss over the forced gameplay YOU enjoy. I'd rather pull out my nails with pliers than deal with a pick up group. Grouping was very much a forced part of the CU and will again be a forced part of pub 29. No matter what you do, there will be some "forced" play. But it seems very much as if as long as that forced stuff is what YOU want, it doesn't matter how much it takes from others.
Entertainers aren't forced on you. We no longer are the purveyors of 1/3 of your god mode buffs, as you call them. Not that you ever REALLY had to have those anyway. You can blow us off and pay an npc droid to negate your weak, negligable cloning sickness. Everything we have and everything we do provide in the game is OPTIONAL to those who don't feel like playing with us. Nothing forced.
So what's your hate-on?
Or do you just enjoy kicking people you think can't defend themselves?
Originally posted by azhrarn Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by azhrarn Mali, fresh my memory on that one? Drawing a blank on the referenced Kai-thread....
"Learned how to code it " one or two threads down .
LOL hadn't gotten to that one yet.
/run
Okay, read it. While I'm quite sure that it is indeed the case that the current set of programmers they have on SWG is not up to the challenges of fixing the game, and that they no doubt swap out programmers between games and projects in overfrequent internal restructuring, this by no means makes any case for there being any justification for putting a live game through the kinds of changes SWG has gone through and continues to suffer.
I do feel a bit sorry for the devs themselves, as human beings, from time to time. But then one or more of them will open their mouths and say things that just make me stop lactating the milk of human kindness. These guys are lost in the woods as far as SWG is concerned. They and their management is about as far from a professional act as the game is from being polished and ready for live paid play.
And the thing that really makes my head explode is that I really think they BELIEVE they're not just headed in the right direction, but that they're doing a great job. It's an awful lot like a routing noob who's read a few Cisco books and tinkered with a small network thinking he's a senior backbone engineer when he can't program a basic BGP setup without a premade cheat sheet. There's only so much you can strip down and kludge out with the ghetto coding before your network (or your game) falls down and goes boom.
Just looking at the game as a player, I'm willing to wager that if a pro set of coders had a look at the current game, module by module, their heads would explode.
I agree 100% , But looking at in on a human level about the devs . Sure they think they are doing a good job , And im sure they don't like to think any different . They have great Ideas here and there , Im not sure if its the core game that causes the problem . Or if it is complete failure on the developers part to implement properly .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No one LIKES to think they're not performing their job well, unless they have some twisted wish to get even with their employer or they have a few screws loose. But the cold reality is, if you're a professional (and this holds true of more than just game devs), you examine your work and judge it realisticly to find those areas where you could improve your work and then do it. You strive for excellence and take pride in those efforts where you achieve it, while laboring to make sure those places where you are weak are taken care of.
SWG is not a professionally run undertaking. There is very little in how the game is being handled that should give any of those involved in its workings any sense of pride in themselves or their product. And this is just wrong on so many levels. I'm sure one or two of the devs left on the project have been around for a good long while. But tenure does not a professional make.
When I say I feel bad for the devs, it's much more of an empathy for people working under shitty conditions with horrible management kind of thing. I've worked under some pretty foolhardy management myself on occasion, and I know how horrible that can be. But while I was a network geek, I was also a professional, and I made sure that my tasks were done properly and that what I delivered to my customers worked and stayed working, even under the worst of time/resources constraints. And I made sure that my networks fit my customers' needs before turning them up. This can't be said of the current SWG devs.
As a network and routing engineer, I could say that my customers had confidence in the work I did and the product they were sold. As a SWG customer, I have to say I have no confidence in the product and services I am paying for. This is the difference between a professional and an amateur outfit.
And THIS is why I often have little sympathy for the SWG devs.
Guys/gals, stop feeding Squidi the troll please. All of you should know that you cant win an argument against a troll, because they are always right.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Guys/gals, stop feeding Squidi the troll please. All of you should know that you cant win an argument against a troll, because they are always right.
The purpose of Entertainer, Doctors and crafters was not only their profession task, but it was a way for people to play the game and live in the Star Wars universe and not have to deal with combat, it offered different ways to play the game. Todays MMO's focus on just combat and nothing else. Saying Entertainers or any of the above should not be/have been professions is just pure dumbassness.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Comments
First and foremost, the majority of my characters are entertainers. This was my first love in the game and I find myself reluctant to relinquish it, even in the face of massive nerfing, intentionally planned gradual obsolescence and the very real eventuality of having yet another class I enjoy removed from the game.
No jedi about it. The things I loved in SWG are being removed, one combat upgrade/core game overhaul at a time. There is nothing that mitigates the inarguable sucktitude of being shut out of classes you love to play.
And while jedi may indeed suck now, it sucks far worse to endure the inclusion of horrible particle effects paired with the removal of once-fantastic battle animations, the seriously amateur terrain/landscape downgrade (ceramic tile grasslands on Dantooine and plastic block beaches on Naboo anyone?) and the mounting pile of brand new bugs created by the lack of forethought on the part of the devs while they slapped a half-assed FPS system over an engine not designed to handle it (ever tried to give someone an inspiration while playing a nalgaron or ommni box? Course not, you're not an ent.)
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
And at the risk of drawing even more ire from the people who post here, I've always thought that entertainers were a BAD idea, just like I thought doctors who spent all their time in a med center were a bad idea. You are basically an optional middle man for people doing far more interesting things and all you get to do is stare at the walls of same looking cantinas the galaxy over. For the people who like to chat and buff others, you don't need to be stuck in one room with zero capability to step outside. And for the people who hate going that extraneous step (especially healing battle fatigue pre-CU), they shouldn't be forced to take it.
Entertainers are a fundamentally flawed concept and there is nothing - NOTHING - that anybody can do to patch it up. They need a complete rethink in what they are and what they do. You can't mix socializing and gameplay without ending up with more people taking shortcuts and AFK grinding than playing, and that cheapens the whole profession.
Don't know why I felt it necessary to share that, but there you go. If you play an entertainer, you are just asking to be unhappy.
Congratulations, you have completely blown my mind. Did some dancer give you a wedgie when you were a kid or something?
Congratulations, you have completely blown my mind. Did some dancer give you a wedgie when you were a kid or something?
I actually somewhat agree with him . It makes no sense to me to make a profession that is totally dependant on others for their content , If they aren't around you have absolutely nothing to do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First post.
For starters, Hello everyone.
Now to business... This talk about doc/entertainers being useless. Everyone seems to love the community that is swg. Do you guys realize what originally created this?
People wounded in medcenters waiting for their turn to be healed, guess what they do? Start talking to strangers to pass the time.
People in cantinas waiting to get their mind and/or BF healed... what do they do to pass the time? communicate.
These so called "middle man" professions are the fundemental reason why swg has such a great community. In other MMO's interaction with strangers pretty much evolves around "LFG!" and "LF1M!" shouts on general chat channels.
Yes, I have played SWG since euro launch.
No I'm not currently subscribed
Yes I follow whats going on in SWG on a daily basis hoping for improvement.
-------------------
Derran Vlegg
ex Euro-Chimaera village idiot.
Those things that men cannot understand, they hate.
Let it suffice to say that a lack of understanding and limited ability to envision cheapened the entire game.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Those things that men cannot understand, they hate.
Let it suffice to say that a lack of understanding and limited ability to envision cheapened the entire game.
Actually I think Kai hit the nail on the head with his thread .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
I am looking at it from the Dancers point of view (docs were fine they could do other things , IMO the idea of buffing and healing were great , It did add to community releations in a major way . But the profession itself was based around that , Pre-nge they had it better they coudl create hybrid ents now(no people)=absolutely nothing to do but stare at walls and listen to the same music over and over , that we have all heard for way to long .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL hadn't gotten to that one yet.
/run
Okay, read it. While I'm quite sure that it is indeed the case that the current set of programmers they have on SWG is not up to the challenges of fixing the game, and that they no doubt swap out programmers between games and projects in overfrequent internal restructuring, this by no means makes any case for there being any justification for putting a live game through the kinds of changes SWG has gone through and continues to suffer.
I do feel a bit sorry for the devs themselves, as human beings, from time to time. But then one or more of them will open their mouths and say things that just make me stop lactating the milk of human kindness. These guys are lost in the woods as far as SWG is concerned. They and their management is about as far from a professional act as the game is from being polished and ready for live paid play.
And the thing that really makes my head explode is that I really think they BELIEVE they're not just headed in the right direction, but that they're doing a great job. It's an awful lot like a routing noob who's read a few Cisco books and tinkered with a small network thinking he's a senior backbone engineer when he can't program a basic BGP setup without a premade cheat sheet. There's only so much you can strip down and kludge out with the ghetto coding before your network (or your game) falls down and goes boom.
Just looking at the game as a player, I'm willing to wager that if a pro set of coders had a look at the current game, module by module, their heads would explode.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
"You cant mix socializing and gameplay"
You cant mix socializing and gameplay? what? Did you know you were playing an mmo? Wasnt that the entire point of making an mmo, to mix socializing and gameplay? I understand a little better now why you like the nge so much, since you consider interaction with other people an "extraneous step".
For the Horde!
I met quite a good number of genuine entertainers who did it for sheer fun. Heck, I am forever thankfull to the entertainer profession, it got my girlfriend addicted to the game. If it hadn't been for that, it would have never been the awesome experience it turned out to be for the 2 of us.
I myself did some entertaining when I started playing because I liked listening to the different instruments, was curious about the "next tune", as well as having a hearty laugh almost everynight when I synch-danced with my gf, the dances were so silly it was actually amusing to dabble with the flourishes.
A few month later, I eventually grinded the entire entertainer and its elite professions.
It was a long grind. Yes, I did AFK grinding when I went to bed, meals, etc. But during the day I was there, I have the screenies to prove it. Either maintaining the group, kicking snoozers off, allowing new ppl in, talking to "customers" so they'd listen/watched our group preferrably. I worked it, really, it was fun.
I can genuinly say with a straight face that I enjoyed grinding entertainer, more so than many combat professions.
In the end I made a bunch of good friends, heard a lot of fun stories, and learned lots about game mechanics and macro building. I was glad to stop when I finally mastered the last proff because I did it continuously for an entire week, always live, and I was tired from the effort, but by no means bored with it. As a matter of fact, I kept TKM and MMusician combo for a few days more and worked the catinas with some of the entertainer friends I made just because they really were fun to hang out with. Jumping on the nalargon or throwing the mandoviol up in the air did amuse me much, what can I say?
I am sorry if you never experienced it like that. I guess you missed out on that part of the game. It happens.
No hate for you here, just making a point for the entertainers' cause.
-virtual tourist
want your game back?
I take it that you absolutely do not support AFK entertainers? What about in pre-CU where doctors would have tumblers who would intentionally hurt themselves so they could grind healing xp? I mean, how are you supposed to make money on tips or cover charges when there will always be someone next to you AFK (as a general rule, I don't think most people tip or tip well AFK bots) without a cover charge? Same thing with crafters and a player economy? How are you supposed to make money as a crafter when all the other crafters are grinding to master (since their goods are not competitive early on without experimentation points) and selling that stuff for bottom dollar? You only sell the top tier stuff, meaning all the lower players have to be content with vendor trash - which is usually 10,000 gungan head statues rather than the items you really need.
And what happens when you've got players who are forced to rely on these services that can't GET these services because the few real human players left are impossible to find? Pre-CU, I got poisoned by the Sarlacc Pit and couldn't find a doctor in any of the med centers to fix me. Not a single one. Then I went around to all the major starports asking if anyone there was a doctor, and couldn't find one there either.
You can NOT mix socializing and gameplay because you can never allow socializing to be min-maxed. That's why you end up with crappy people in the groups you were forced to join. Whatever benefits you think you get from forcing players to do that kind of stuff you would have ANYWAY, because social players will be social, even if you go to extreme lengths to stop them. It's just who they are. And yes, I understand that they appreciate and want gameplay that supports who they are, just like I want gameplay that supports who I am, but you and them have to understand that gameplay is something that ALL people participate in and if they have to be like you, they will make being like you into a game.
Entertainers don't need to be a profession.
One of the things that drew me to SWG was the fact that is was beyond the norm in MMORPGs. A variety of people came there to do a variety of things and what reallly amazed me about it was that they were happy do do it. Games like CoH and WoW were great action games but that was just it. Everyone there was a fighter type and combat oriented. This presents a rather one sided reality to the gaming world and to me was rather unimmersive. True, you could sit around and socialize but still that was Role Playing Lite.
When I came into SWG (PreCU), I walked into Cantinas and they were active scenes being played out by people who enjoyed participating. Dancers talked to you, conversations were had and in the end - you were immersed into the world. I too got a disease and had to find a doc to try and take it off of me. I hit several cities before I managed to find one. Had things been proper - the docs would have been in town and the fix would be had but sadly the dev's had not thought through some of their changes and next thing you know - we had afk docs and tumblers. However, when the pieces were in place - I got healed, commerce happened and it played itself out properly. The idea of AFK bots in general should have been done away with.
The argument comes down to how much of realistic and immersive world you want. If you want to go the way of WoW and CoH (fine games true) where you show up to wage war 90% of the time - fine. The community attracts pvpers, war mongers, uberlooters and so on as well as good action oriented players. If you want to have an interactive, thriving community with diversity beyond the kill kill kill mindset - entertainers, docs, image designers as professions are a must because they attract different kind of gamers and bring into the game more diversity and thus a richer experience.
Some of my fondest moments involve entertainers, image designers and the other nonaction profs. Some of the best players I met were people who soley played these characters. Without them, I would have lived in a 3rd world demilitarized zone in which there was constant war and no respite. With them, I fond community and a 2nd home.
I did my check test of SWG about a month ago and cancelled
the account again after about a week of trail and error. I like some of the
changes and find the game has a bit more enjoyment at times. However, it's the lack
of rewards and the difficulty of questing without a group of people that made
keeping an open account impossible for me.
Attempting to find a game that is both fun to play and something that can be
enjoyed for months at a time has been very challenging (playing Auto Assault at
the moment and having a blast). I hope SWG gets its act together sometime in
the near future because I really like many of the concepts the game brings to
the table.
Me like games... *burp*
I'd feel bad for you if I wasn't so busy wanting to slap you. I never had any trouble finding a doc to heal my poison, dancers to heal my mind, weaponsmiths to make my weapons to spec, armorsmiths to make me just the right armors in just the right colors... until after the cu hit. And then it was more challenging to get these things taken care of... but not impossible.
YOU say forced gameplay is bad. But you completely gloss over the forced gameplay YOU enjoy. I'd rather pull out my nails with pliers than deal with a pick up group. Grouping was very much a forced part of the CU and will again be a forced part of pub 29. No matter what you do, there will be some "forced" play. But it seems very much as if as long as that forced stuff is what YOU want, it doesn't matter how much it takes from others.
Entertainers aren't forced on you. We no longer are the purveyors of 1/3 of your god mode buffs, as you call them. Not that you ever REALLY had to have those anyway. You can blow us off and pay an npc droid to negate your weak, negligable cloning sickness. Everything we have and everything we do provide in the game is OPTIONAL to those who don't feel like playing with us. Nothing forced.
So what's your hate-on?
Or do you just enjoy kicking people you think can't defend themselves?
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
LOL hadn't gotten to that one yet.
/run
Okay, read it. While I'm quite sure that it is indeed the case that the current set of programmers they have on SWG is not up to the challenges of fixing the game, and that they no doubt swap out programmers between games and projects in overfrequent internal restructuring, this by no means makes any case for there being any justification for putting a live game through the kinds of changes SWG has gone through and continues to suffer.
I do feel a bit sorry for the devs themselves, as human beings, from time to time. But then one or more of them will open their mouths and say things that just make me stop lactating the milk of human kindness. These guys are lost in the woods as far as SWG is concerned. They and their management is about as far from a professional act as the game is from being polished and ready for live paid play.
And the thing that really makes my head explode is that I really think they BELIEVE they're not just headed in the right direction, but that they're doing a great job. It's an awful lot like a routing noob who's read a few Cisco books and tinkered with a small network thinking he's a senior backbone engineer when he can't program a basic BGP setup without a premade cheat sheet. There's only so much you can strip down and kludge out with the ghetto coding before your network (or your game) falls down and goes boom.
Just looking at the game as a player, I'm willing to wager that if a pro set of coders had a look at the current game, module by module, their heads would explode.
I agree 100% , But looking at in on a human level about the devs . Sure they think they are doing a good job , And im sure they don't like to think any different . They have great Ideas here and there , Im not sure if its the core game that causes the problem . Or if it is complete failure on the developers part to implement properly .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No one LIKES to think they're not performing their job well, unless they have some twisted wish to get even with their employer or they have a few screws loose. But the cold reality is, if you're a professional (and this holds true of more than just game devs), you examine your work and judge it realisticly to find those areas where you could improve your work and then do it. You strive for excellence and take pride in those efforts where you achieve it, while laboring to make sure those places where you are weak are taken care of.
SWG is not a professionally run undertaking. There is very little in how the game is being handled that should give any of those involved in its workings any sense of pride in themselves or their product. And this is just wrong on so many levels. I'm sure one or two of the devs left on the project have been around for a good long while. But tenure does not a professional make.
When I say I feel bad for the devs, it's much more of an empathy for people working under shitty conditions with horrible management kind of thing. I've worked under some pretty foolhardy management myself on occasion, and I know how horrible that can be. But while I was a network geek, I was also a professional, and I made sure that my tasks were done properly and that what I delivered to my customers worked and stayed working, even under the worst of time/resources constraints. And I made sure that my networks fit my customers' needs before turning them up. This can't be said of the current SWG devs.
As a network and routing engineer, I could say that my customers had confidence in the work I did and the product they were sold. As a SWG customer, I have to say I have no confidence in the product and services I am paying for. This is the difference between a professional and an amateur outfit.
And THIS is why I often have little sympathy for the SWG devs.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Make it better, daddy.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett