So it's a priority system with resources...which has been done and players still end up having a rotation.
You cannot avoid a combat based rotation system. Well, you can if you make it action combat and no one wants that and even then you can play action combat with 2 or 3 buttons as long as you don't have the situational awareness of roadkill.
It's almost like they are trying to reinvent the wheel. There is a reason why we still use the wheel.
If they are reworking combat, this revamp will very likely delay the game immensely. After all, combat includes elements of the UI, weapon balance, damaging spells, and class specifics. Making significant changes at this stage will require a lot of additional work, which I do not feel has been anticipated.
So, more delays.
It isn't a combat revamp. This is a poorly written article. Here is a direct quote from the producers' letter.
"Nearly all of our class resources, ability costs, cooldowns, and potencies are being adjusted to better meet this vision, and we are introducing new functionality and features intended to reward mindful ability use and team coordination."
It's an adjustment to abilities and stats. That's it.
If they are reworking combat, this revamp will very likely delay the game immensely. After all, combat includes elements of the UI, weapon balance, damaging spells, and class specifics. Making significant changes at this stage will require a lot of additional work, which I do not feel has been anticipated.
So, more delays.
It isn't a combat revamp. This is a poorly written article. Here is a direct quote from the producers' letter.
"Nearly all of our class resources, ability costs, cooldowns, and potencies are being adjusted to better meet this vision, and we are introducing new functionality and features intended to reward mindful ability use and team coordination."
It's an adjustment to abilities and stats. That's it.
Semantics.
In order to adjust these abilities, they are likely to need to touch the UI, weapon damage balance, spell damage balance, and class abilities. Plus they are 'rewarding mindful ability use and team coordination', whatever that is. More work, deviating from the original plan.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If they are reworking combat, this revamp will very likely delay the game immensely. After all, combat includes elements of the UI, weapon balance, damaging spells, and class specifics. Making significant changes at this stage will require a lot of additional work, which I do not feel has been anticipated.
So, more delays.
It isn't a combat revamp. This is a poorly written article. Here is a direct quote from the producers' letter.
"Nearly all of our class resources, ability costs, cooldowns, and potencies are being adjusted to better meet this vision, and we are introducing new functionality and features intended to reward mindful ability use and team coordination."
It's an adjustment to abilities and stats. That's it.
Semantics.
In order to adjust these abilities, they are likely to need to touch the UI, weapon damage balance, spell damage balance, and class abilities. Plus they are 'rewarding mindful ability use and team coordination', whatever that is. More work, deviating from the original plan.
There's no deviating from the original plan. It's still the same underlying combat system with improvements, which they've been already working on since before October. The devs will demonstrate the changes in the near future. That doesn't correlate to delaying the game immensely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was not aware that they ever changed direction, but happy that they are changing back to the right way again.
Then again, since they ever changed that direction, there must be some forces on that team who "just don't get it" .. So maybe they are having an internal power struggle that hold back the momentum of the project.
Game development is all about iteration so it's only natural that these things get worked on all the way to the finish line and even then they will continue to be worked on and they balance things out.
If they are reworking combat, this revamp will very likely delay the game immensely. After all, combat includes elements of the UI, weapon balance, damaging spells, and class specifics. Making significant changes at this stage will require a lot of additional work, which I do not feel has been anticipated.
So, more delays.
It isn't a combat revamp. This is a poorly written article. Here is a direct quote from the producers' letter.
If this game does ever come out, this will die faster than Crowfall did. As some one who has been a backer here for years, I see zero value for this project.
This completes the scam trio consisting of Chronicles of Elyria, Dreamworld, and Pantheon.
So started with eq/vanguard style strategy over rotation, then tried to make ESO buttons, now back to basics.
At no point in this development has it ever been remotely close to ESO.
The morphing spell choices are directly from ESO. Even the UI for them is the same.
There's no "spell morphing" in this game. You must be confused with another game.
7 minutes in, "Mastery System"
Yes, I'm very familiar with the Mastery System which is straight from the EQ AA system. Still not sure how you came up with "ESO buttons" or anything close to ESO from that video.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
A game I've been hopeful for (as there just isn't anything else like this, like old EQ back-in-the-day when it was good-fun), but wow will anything ever come, I just don't honestly know... The years and years just keep coming... I luv Skyrim and so had some hope that ESO would be like that but they doubled-down on the worst console-centric aspects of Skyrim and made something I couldn't find any fun in at all. Nothing I see out there currently holds any joy at-all. There are no innovations in this genre it only spews out more eastern-market pay-to-win same-ol, same-ol crap every so often now. So depressing.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
Those things already happened but they can't stop for 2 reasons...
1. https://www.pantheonmmo.com/pledge/ <<< look at the $ amounts. Way worse than CU cause at least CU has one person(MJ) who has actually released games. Look at what they promise in those pledges and think about how scammy those look when they need to "redo combat" 6 years into development...
2. They can't refund the money that was already 'pledged' so they have to keep going BAMN.
How is it even possible to keep this going after McQuaid passed knowing that many/most only gave this project a glance because he was leading it with HIS vision.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
If it takes CR almost a decade+ and Shadowbane dudes fuxxed up then how are people working on Pantheon as their first shipped game(hopefully) supposed to deliver a quality 'EQ-like' experience in 2021.
They also redid their site erasing any mention of how the same was supposed to be released in 2017-2018...
Look at the question "What stage of development' it says PRE-ALPHA testing phase which is what it said 6 years ago... soooo they have been in pre-alpha testing phase for 6 years...
Another thing to mention is they have a MONTHLY sub for forum access and features for a game currently in "pre alpha testing phase". Think Project Gorgon early access sub was/is unethical? how about a monthly sub for a game that has been 'technically' in the same stage of development for 6 years...
Look at the bottom of the pledge page "Pledge to support the game's development and help to complete the game sooner" Do people even understand how shady that statement is? Blizzard and others with tens of millions, experience and hundred(s) people dev teams can't complete games faster because of money but somehow a small group of inexperienced devs can...
BruceYee said: Look at the bottom of the pledge page "Pledge to support the game's development and help to complete the game sooner" Do people even understand how shady that statement is? Blizzard and others with tens of millions, experience and hundred(s) people dev teams can't complete games faster because of money but somehow a small group of inexperienced devs can...
I agree with your points. From a outsider following their project, their development team needs a kick in the butt in order to finish the project successfully. McQuaid passing was tough for many people and the project. But, they agreed to continue so they need to make good decisions on the remaining development work.
If their development leadership don't make corrective actions now, the kick in the butt will be a whole lot worse after spending 10 years of crowd funder's money and not having a playable game.
In my opinion, they need to put someone in charge that has the discipline to drive the project to go live. If they don't have someone internally that has correct vision and skillset, then they should look externally. They may not have funding at this time to pay a qualified candidate, so this could possibly require adding pay incentives for the candidate to get bonuses based on revenue earned post launch of the game.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
This is a legitimate concern. However, these guys were hand-picked by Brad himself. So you either trust Brad's choices or not.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
This is a legitimate concern. However, these guys were hand-picked by Brad himself. So you either trust Brad's choices or not.
Bard was not exactly a person with a history of making great choices from what we know...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
This is a legitimate concern. However, these guys were hand-picked by Brad himself. So you either trust Brad's choices or not.
Bard was not exactly a person with a history of making great choices from what we know...
If that's the case, then his passing has no bearing on the development of Pantheon. Personally, I believe Brad's strength was a visionary with an eye for talent.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
Those things already happened but they can't stop for 2 reasons...
1. https://www.pantheonmmo.com/pledge/ <<< look at the $ amounts. Way worse than CU cause at least CU has one person(MJ) who has actually released games. Look at what they promise in those pledges and think about how scammy those look when they need to "redo combat" 6 years into development...
2. They can't refund the money that was already 'pledged' so they have to keep going BAMN.
How is it even possible to keep this going after McQuaid passed knowing that many/most only gave this project a glance because he was leading it with HIS vision.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
If it takes CR almost a decade+ and Shadowbane dudes fuxxed up then how are people working on Pantheon as their first shipped game(hopefully) supposed to deliver a quality 'EQ-like' experience in 2021.
They also redid their site erasing any mention of how the same was supposed to be released in 2017-2018...
Look at the question "What stage of development' it says PRE-ALPHA testing phase which is what it said 6 years ago... soooo they have been in pre-alpha testing phase for 6 years...
Another thing to mention is they have a MONTHLY sub for forum access and features for a game currently in "pre alpha testing phase". Think Project Gorgon early access sub was/is unethical? how about a monthly sub for a game that has been 'technically' in the same stage of development for 6 years...
Look at the bottom of the pledge page "Pledge to support the game's development and help to complete the game sooner" Do people even understand how shady that statement is? Blizzard and others with tens of millions, experience and hundred(s) people dev teams can't complete games faster because of money but somehow a small group of inexperienced devs can...
What are people getting for their 6 year sub? What have they gotten? NOTHING, 0, Zulch, GG.
They need to either get their development work right the first time or cancel the project. Its not a viable option to continue redeveloping the game for another 7 years. They will run out of money, game will be outdated, and lose interest from their customers.
This game is in the same territory as a couple other crowdfund MMO with people heading it that have no prior game development experience and/or knowledge.
This is a legitimate concern. However, these guys were hand-picked by Brad himself. So you either trust Brad's choices or not.
Bard was not exactly a person with a history of making great choices from what we know...
Earlier this year, VR spouted praises at their development team which has been busy correcting many of the coding mistakes the initial developers (under Brad) had committed. That alone doesn't look too good for Brad's leadership abilities. There have been other instances, too.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
2. They can't refund the money that was already 'pledged' so they have to keep going BAMN.
Last I looked they failed or blundered every pledge drive they tried, which means, they have zero obligations to make this game happen.
In short, they are working on the game, because they want to make it happen, if they didn't, they could have closed the door years ago, flipped anyone that cried the bird, and moved on some other company or project.
In fact, when Brad died, they could have just shut down then, citing death of the President, Founder, and Head Developer as cause of the game's failure. Liquated the LLC, and as individuals, just moved on with their life.
I mean, really, Truth is, when Braid died, if they wanted an out, that was it.
The fact that they kept going, means they want this game to happen, for some reason or another.
With that said, Crowfall failed, because, no joke, they changed a lot of the game from Beta to Launch, and not for the better. They added in a bunch of BS, that never needed to be there, case in point.
They ramped up the graphics (Which was a killer for me).
They put in some long ass PvE tutorial, in a PvP game, which was just beyond stupid, and the worst part was, they didn't even give a good guide on how to work the PvP in the process.
They had a crappy auction house system.
They really in the end of things, didn't do enough to make the game feel rewarding.
As a crafter, I felt like I was nothing more some NPC that some other ganker was going to try and hunt down
When I got into PvP, because a lot of it ended up being small skermishes, the massive class imbalance was like a huge turd in the middle of a PvP game.
I tried to warn them at the start, that as a PvP focused game, they need to make this game balanced for small fights, they needed to have that sense of fairness in the classes, so that players could 5 v5 or even 3 v 3, and not feel like their build put them as a huge disadvantage. All the ivory tower DAOC wannabe's cried that the Imbalance was the spice of PvP or some such bullshit.
No, it was just shit.
Truth is, that killed the game more than anything, since they listened to Ivory Tower DAOC players, as opposed to people that played PvP focused games like FPS, and Arena games, they basically shot themselves in the foot unable to truly change the scale of the game, so they set it up as Large Scale or Nothing.
Then the same ivory Tower that cried that Imbalance was the spice of life, and all that stupid nonsense, and any issues of imbalance would be solved by it being a game of large open battles, all turned around and cried they wanted small scale battles, because the mega guilds that embraced the idea that this was going to be a large scale battle game, and set up for large scale battles were kicking their little munchkin sized guilds asses all over the place.
Yah.. Crowfalls's demise sat squarely when they listened to the DAOC Ivory Tower players.
Had they listened to the Arena PvP players, built a game that was designed from the ground up for the builds to be mainly equal, they would have been able to set up all kinds of different scales for battle, from massive to tiny, with zero issues, which I tried to explain to them on their official forum, if you build to balance for 1 vs 1, it will hold for 1000 vs 1000, but if you only balance for 50+ vs 50+, if you need to go lower, the game falls apart.
But, all the Ivory Tower DAOC players came in and screamed me down that Imbalance was the best kind of balance, or some such bullshit like that, so when the game launched, and they were put in a position where they were cohered to go smaller, because those self same ivory tower DOAC players were not in large guilds or prepped for large scale combat, and got quickly steamrolled, so they all left citing that they could not compete against large scale guilds.
When CF tried to go smaller, no one wanted to play a shit balance PvP game, which made for an unfixable problem.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
You cannot avoid a combat based rotation system. Well, you can if you make it action combat and no one wants that and even then you can play action combat with 2 or 3 buttons as long as you don't have the situational awareness of roadkill.
It's almost like they are trying to reinvent the wheel. There is a reason why we still use the wheel.
It isn't a combat revamp. This is a poorly written article. Here is a direct quote from the producers' letter.
"Nearly all of our class resources, ability costs, cooldowns, and potencies are being adjusted to better meet this vision, and we are introducing new functionality and features intended to reward mindful ability use and team coordination."
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
There's no deviating from the original plan. It's still the same underlying combat system with improvements, which they've been already working on since before October. The devs will demonstrate the changes in the near future. That doesn't correlate to delaying the game immensely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then again, since they ever changed that direction, there must be some forces on that team who "just don't get it" .. So maybe they are having an internal power struggle that hold back the momentum of the project.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
https://massivelyop.com/2021/11/19/pantheons-visionary-realms-is-planning-major-revisions-to-combat-stats-and-class-identity/ I don't think both articles are poorly written. Just different ways of saying the same thing.
This completes the scam trio consisting of Chronicles of Elyria, Dreamworld, and Pantheon.
What a colossal waste of time and resources.
Yes, I'm very familiar with the Mastery System which is straight from the EQ AA system. Still not sure how you came up with "ESO buttons" or anything close to ESO from that video.
Yeah, tell me something I don't know lol.
If their development leadership don't make corrective actions now, the kick in the butt will be a whole lot worse after spending 10 years of crowd funder's money and not having a playable game.
In my opinion, they need to put someone in charge that has the discipline to drive the project to go live. If they don't have someone internally that has correct vision and skillset, then they should look externally. They may not have funding at this time to pay a qualified candidate, so this could possibly require adding pay incentives for the candidate to get bonuses based on revenue earned post launch of the game.
This is a legitimate concern. However, these guys were hand-picked by Brad himself. So you either trust Brad's choices or not.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If that's the case, then his passing has no bearing on the development of Pantheon. Personally, I believe Brad's strength was a visionary with an eye for talent.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
In short, they are working on the game, because they want to make it happen, if they didn't, they could have closed the door years ago, flipped anyone that cried the bird, and moved on some other company or project.
In fact, when Brad died, they could have just shut down then, citing death of the President, Founder, and Head Developer as cause of the game's failure. Liquated the LLC, and as individuals, just moved on with their life.
I mean, really, Truth is, when Braid died, if they wanted an out, that was it.
The fact that they kept going, means they want this game to happen, for some reason or another.
With that said, Crowfall failed, because, no joke, they changed a lot of the game from Beta to Launch, and not for the better. They added in a bunch of BS, that never needed to be there, case in point.
- They ramped up the graphics (Which was a killer for me).
- They put in some long ass PvE tutorial, in a PvP game, which was just beyond stupid, and the worst part was, they didn't even give a good guide on how to work the PvP in the process.
- They had a crappy auction house system.
- They really in the end of things, didn't do enough to make the game feel rewarding.
- As a crafter, I felt like I was nothing more some NPC that some other ganker was going to try and hunt down
- When I got into PvP, because a lot of it ended up being small skermishes, the massive class imbalance was like a huge turd in the middle of a PvP game.
I tried to warn them at the start, that as a PvP focused game, they need to make this game balanced for small fights, they needed to have that sense of fairness in the classes, so that players could 5 v5 or even 3 v 3, and not feel like their build put them as a huge disadvantage. All the ivory tower DAOC wannabe's cried that the Imbalance was the spice of PvP or some such bullshit.No, it was just shit.
Truth is, that killed the game more than anything, since they listened to Ivory Tower DAOC players, as opposed to people that played PvP focused games like FPS, and Arena games, they basically shot themselves in the foot unable to truly change the scale of the game, so they set it up as Large Scale or Nothing.
Then the same ivory Tower that cried that Imbalance was the spice of life, and all that stupid nonsense, and any issues of imbalance would be solved by it being a game of large open battles, all turned around and cried they wanted small scale battles, because the mega guilds that embraced the idea that this was going to be a large scale battle game, and set up for large scale battles were kicking their little munchkin sized guilds asses all over the place.
Yah.. Crowfalls's demise sat squarely when they listened to the DAOC Ivory Tower players.
Had they listened to the Arena PvP players, built a game that was designed from the ground up for the builds to be mainly equal, they would have been able to set up all kinds of different scales for battle, from massive to tiny, with zero issues, which I tried to explain to them on their official forum, if you build to balance for 1 vs 1, it will hold for 1000 vs 1000, but if you only balance for 50+ vs 50+, if you need to go lower, the game falls apart.
But, all the Ivory Tower DAOC players came in and screamed me down that Imbalance was the best kind of balance, or some such bullshit like that, so when the game launched, and they were put in a position where they were cohered to go smaller, because those self same ivory tower DOAC players were not in large guilds or prepped for large scale combat, and got quickly steamrolled, so they all left citing that they could not compete against large scale guilds.
When CF tried to go smaller, no one wanted to play a shit balance PvP game, which made for an unfixable problem.