I'll suggest a book here (sorry if already noted): Empire of Imagination by Michael Witwer. He goes through Gary Gygax's (and the D&D) story fairly well, both the good and bad
D&D got me into table top, but once I had bought "Call of Cthulhu" I realised systems could be both easier and more aptly fit a roleplaying setting. I never looked back, but D20 evolved and some of the later "versions" like "Faded Suns" were very good.
D&D was my intro to tabletop RPGs, too. We played many other systems in my group but never tried Cthulhu as a group, though I think one of our DMs wanted to try it out.
We tried many variations from Castle Falkenstein (a HEAVILY based storytelling system) to Champions (that took character creation to the "nth degree"). I favored Champions character creation best.
D&D's influence is certainly felt in video games today. I remember spending months in the Skara Brae for Bard's Tale I, II, III (on 5 1/4" floppies!) on my Commodore 64. I joined EverQuest because my "D&D friends" had spread like the wind after college and I thought I'd be able recreate that experience online. But it lacked the "group cohesiveness" of D&D with hundreds of thousands of other players involved. Ever since, I've looked to other MMORPGs to find that cohesiveness and finally accepted that anything "massive" will fall short for me.
How does the original Ultima Series compare, system-wise?
I think "massively" is better suited to war gaming
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Am I the only one who thinks that a non computerised skill based character would be enjoyable. I mean, who wouldn't want to engage in non combat activities and go through the process of gathering, manufacturing into a final product. Except it's in a dungeon and dragon rule set and with dice rolls and there is 75 other skills to choose from including actual combat. Would give a more accomplished feeling and is probably what I would do in my spare time if electronic game play died for what ever reason.
D&D most likely would have been inspired by war generals sitting around a table discussing strat and it branched off from there.
For me you are alone there, that would be awful. One thing that that distinguishes table top from video games is that you do not have to gather, maintain your house, do chores, keep your self fed and watered. There are exceptions when the setting demanded it, for the likes of expeditions for protagonists set in the Victorian era. But apart from that I have never had to roleplay the likes of exposure or gathering firewood thankfully.
Indeed DnD has part of its roots in military gaming rules.
- Vampire the Masquerade (one of the best for sure - loved the shovel of dice system - loved the intrigues - loved the sandbox that Chicago by Night allowed)
White Wolf had a very good rule system and settings. Loved it.
Warhammer Quest also had a very easy to learn smooth system , really fun. I actually just mailed (last week)my old box set and all the hand painted pieces ( many pewter pieces all painted by me), to a friend who is heavy into DnD , plays alot with a static group . They had never played the Warhammer Quest system, they are really enjoying it .. I strongly reccomend it to anyone that hasn't tried it , that is still playing table top DnD.
I played D&D, Superheroes Unlimited and Shadowrun when I was a kid - like a million years ago. I played with several groups until I lost interest around high school. Not sure if a single DM that I played with followed the rules stringently. It was always more about riffing stories with each other with occasional dice rolls on fights and stuff. I only died once in all the games - it was at the end of a dungeon when I rolled 100 on a 100 sided die. That uncannily bad number roll luck followed me well into the MMORPG age.
If I still played table top RPGs, I think I would still want to do it this way.
- Vampire the Masquerade (one of the best for sure - loved the shovel of dice system - loved the intrigues - loved the sandbox that Chicago by Night allowed)
White Wolf had a very good rule system and settings. Loved it.
I hate all D20, D100 systems. They are just bad. I remember in our 3 hours sessions we threw dice a few ten times depending on how combat heavy was the session. That is not a big enough statistical sample for getting reliable results.
Having 60-70% in a skill was considered good, but you fail actually 30% of the times which is stupid.
In Nephilim, you play a mythical creature that is assuming a human form. You lived during 1000s of years. Your memory is bad, you don't recall all of your original skills and magic, but your are still a powerful being.
Well, mine got beaten up by violent college students and their dog, because I rolled a a few 70+. That was so ridiculous, I still remember it.
Having a shovel of dice in VTMB, allowed strong statistical averages making your character and your decisions in play more predictable and reliable.
So who is setting up the MMORPG.com Tabletop (Discord) D&D or similar game? Any GameMasters out there who want to herd cats?
Lots of hassle, I would look for ways of reducing that, but I am not volunteering mind you.
For example Amber uses a dice less system, many roleplayers have an issue with that though as they love to roll dice.
I'm actually a Zelazny fan and was just looking at that after a reddit post. Nobody to play with mind you... but seems cool.
Amber always struck me as a fantastic IP.
The system is also used in 'Lords of Gossamer and Shadow' and 'Lords of Olympus', both fine settings. Zelazny was one of the greats and the system works well with the setting, of course any system can be tailored but it fits really well.
I played D&D, Superheroes Unlimited and Shadowrun when I was a kid - like a million years ago. I played with several groups until I lost interest around high school. Not sure if a single DM that I played with followed the rules stringently. It was always more about riffing stories with each other with occasional dice rolls on fights and stuff. I only died once in all the games - it was at the end of a dungeon when I rolled 100 on a 100 sided die. That uncannily bad number roll luck followed me well into the MMORPG age.
If I still played table top RPGs, I think I would still want to do it this way.
The problem is, the 'rules' for D&D essentially said that the DM can override everything. It was sheer marketing genius -- make up a set of rules and play it. Also, give TSR $30 for this set of books. Later, to become $30 for a single book that everyone will want/need.
The first modern cash shops? It's got to be between TSR and Ral Partha.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Same I think it's a great IP and would love to see it come alive in a video game that's newer than this one!
Would make for a great video game franchise. Film and TV less so, but only thinking of the special effects costs here, even with 3d printers and cheaper digital effects cost could be an issue. Don't make the mistake the Inhumans TV series did! Best way to play it would be to have only a couple of shadows or just keep the first series in Amber. If they wanted to retell the actual chronicle start on Earth and keep it there for the first series.
I played D&D, Superheroes Unlimited and Shadowrun when I was a kid - like a million years ago. I played with several groups until I lost interest around high school. Not sure if a single DM that I played with followed the rules stringently. It was always more about riffing stories with each other with occasional dice rolls on fights and stuff. I only died once in all the games - it was at the end of a dungeon when I rolled 100 on a 100 sided die. That uncannily bad number roll luck followed me well into the MMORPG age.
If I still played table top RPGs, I think I would still want to do it this way.
The problem is, the 'rules' for D&D essentially said that the DM can override everything. It was sheer marketing genius -- make up a set of rules and play it. Also, give TSR $30 for this set of books. Later, to become $30 for a single book that everyone will want/need.
The first modern cash shops? It's got to be between TSR and Ral Partha.
D&D rules have always been haphazard and murky. Back in the day, we called it VD&D (varient D&D), because so many edge cases existed that each GM had to make up their own local house rules.
Talking to some serious D&D designers, their opinion was that the way D&D required GMs to come up with their own rules systems to make D&D playable, ended up being the training ground for the font of future pro game designers.
I was already playing a PBM roleplaying game when D&D came out, so I got the rules, of course. As soon as the rise of the 2nd generation (Runequest and Champions/Hero for me) happened I left the sloppy precincts of D&D behind.
Of course, if you have a good GM, you play whatever system they want. Fortunately for me, my pnp gaming has had decades of good GMing.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
When I was young we played with a plethora of games in all kinds of universes. All pretty much based off dice.
I remember Car Wars and a vampire game where the name escapes me. Quite a few games, not all fantasy based. I remember a Jame Bond secret agent styled one.
I’m trying to remember other systems that existed besides dice back then.
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Girls are too expensive, I can only afford one
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Indeed DnD has part of its roots in military gaming rules.
Girls are so expensive, one should allow to share one.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For example Amber uses a dice less system, many roleplayers have an issue with that though as they love to roll dice.
Amber always struck me as a fantastic IP.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If I still played table top RPGs, I think I would still want to do it this way.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Have your webcam digitize your dice roll and send the information to the game.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Well, I am pretty sure there are already free online solutions to validate online rolls.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
The three that stick with me are Pyramid, Bedlam, and RakaTui (if I didn't screw up the name)
"Bedlam" was interesting as the game was you trying to escape from an insane asylum. I never did escape
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Talking to some serious D&D designers, their opinion was that the way D&D required GMs to come up with their own rules systems to make D&D playable, ended up being the training ground for the font of future pro game designers.
I was already playing a PBM roleplaying game when D&D came out, so I got the rules, of course. As soon as the rise of the 2nd generation (Runequest and Champions/Hero for me) happened I left the sloppy precincts of D&D behind.
Of course, if you have a good GM, you play whatever system they want. Fortunately for me, my pnp gaming has had decades of good GMing.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I remember Car Wars and a vampire game where the name escapes me. Quite a few games, not all fantasy based. I remember a Jame Bond secret agent styled one.
I’m trying to remember other systems that existed besides dice back then.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee