It's not just that most players don't get very far in most games that they pick up. It's also that the game barely launched two weeks ago. Why would you expect all that many people to get that far already? Is the game super short or something?
Speed runners have beaten it in about 3 hours. If you focus on just the story you could easily beat it in about 20 hours. The average playing time for the game so far has been something like 50 hours based on an article I read earlier today.
Sure there's a lot to do, but 50 hours is a lot of time to get through a good chunk of this stuff. I'm sure "average player" still breaks on the "less played" end of the spectrum, but if less than 20% haven't even gotten past rennala, that's a good indicator players are at least not focused on the story, or any of the other major non story bosses.
Actually a day or so ago a speed runner completed the mainline in under an hour. Within just a few minutes another speed runner posted his video of a 41 minute run.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't get why you think mouse and keyboard should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on PC? Do you play sports games like NHL and Fifa with mouse and keyboard? Or platform games? Racing games?
RTS and FPS sure, but just get a controller and use it for games that are better with it.
It makes sense, but honestly I hate (= I am bad at) camera management with a stick. It feels so more natural and especially accurate with a mouse.
Now I know that there is a lock-on, but you don't want all of your fights on lock-on.
There is a hunger for difficulty that the soul like games prove gamers want. But equally not anything too difficult, that contradiction is demonstrated by the fact gamers are only doing what they need to do, the desire for difficulty is nearly matched by the need for speed.
That said this is a world away from the hand held "journeys" where you ding a level every time you bump into a mob. Or the games which are really just stories masquerading as games and that comes from a gamer who advocates more story in games all the time, we still need gameplay and more difficult gameplay at that.
Some gamers have a hunger for difficulty. Some don't, and I'm very much in that crowd. I really don't care for hardcore gamers and youtubers projecting these things onto the gaming public. There are many motivations for wanting to play games, and challenge is just one of those.
I think the market is healthier for having games like Elden Ring, but I'd also prefer that this sort of game design remain just one substantial niche in a diverse market. I can't think of a single franchise I'd less like to see influence the games I care about.
Parts of the Souls famed difficulty comes from the way they design their games. A whole big chunk of it comes from Souls using a bunch of gameplay systems that were dated when Demon's Soul released a decade ago, much less now.
Elden Ring is great because it does Skyrim much better than Skyrim did, not because the UI, the camera, the death system, and the combat mechanics are good. It's great in spite of those things being very objectively bad for 2022.
I can enjoy the former type of difficulty presented by Souls games. The latter should've been improved upon years ago, and the only thing that saved Elden Ring from being a mediocre, hard-core Souls fan service only, is the great open world.
There is a hunger for difficulty that the soul like games prove gamers want. But equally not anything too difficult, that contradiction is demonstrated by the fact gamers are only doing what they need to do, the desire for difficulty is matched by the need for speed.
That said this is a world away from the hand held "journeys" where you ding a level every time you bump into a mob. Or the games which are really just stories masquerading as games and that comes from a gamer who advocates more story in games all the time. We still need actual gameplay not just a visual novel and more difficult gameplay at that.
So there is room for games which are harder but will there ever be room for a proper MMORPG that is harder? I really don't know but keep my fingers crossed.
But what kind of difficulty? I adore games that are mentally difficult. Games that require twitch skills or memorization of mechanics? Meh.
Difficulty is also relative. There are millions of disabled gamers, almost none of which have the exact same accessibility needs. This plus a gamer population that now spans from young kids to senior citizens makes me think you'll never see a truly difficult MMO that has earned the "Massive" part of the description. Niche MMO, perhaps.
Elden Ring is great because it does Skyrim much better than Skyrim did...
What does this mean? How so and what makes it better? Nothing I've seen with game play leads me to see this at all.
Well, combat is better hands down in Elden Ring, that's not even for debate. The only way to achieve interesting combat in Skyrim is through mods (some of them are amazing).
However the questing is so much better in Skyrim and the lore more accessible (and deeper?). NPC interactions is also more engaging making Skyrim more alive than Elden Ring. But here one could argue, that the world is such a mess in Elden Ring because of lore: playing Elden feels like a post-apocalyptic-fantasy because this is basically what happened.
I don't get why you think mouse and keyboard should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on PC? Do you play sports games like NHL and Fifa with mouse and keyboard? Or platform games? Racing games?
RTS and FPS sure, but just get a controller and use it for games that are better with it.
I don't get why you think a controller should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on Console? Do you play fps games like halo and cod with a controller? Or rts games? mmo's?
I don't get why you think mouse and keyboard should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on PC? Do you play sports games like NHL and Fifa with mouse and keyboard? Or platform games? Racing games?
RTS and FPS sure, but just get a controller and use it for games that are better with it.
I hear what you are saying but at the same time when only 10% of gamers on Steam use a controller it seems better to cater to the control scheme 90% of a platform's userbase relies on.
Agreed. Adding to that, If a control scheme is implemented the tooltips should support that. If multiple controller schemes are supported then the tooltips should support that button configuration. Lots of games do this and for a big budget AAA game not to just feels cheesy and low effort.
Elden Ring is great because it does Skyrim much better than Skyrim did...
What does this mean? How so and what makes it better? Nothing I've seen with game play leads me to see this at all.
Exploration is much more rewarding in Elden Ring. The open world feels much fresher, despite using an old engine and a world largely devoid of anything resembling civilization. It's much more beautiful. The world is more alluring. One thing FromSoftware has always been good at is creating incredibly engaging environments. Elden Ring is their Magnum Opus in that regard.
Whereas Skyrim's labrythine dungeon features were muddled by poor level design, Elden Ring's most complex areas still have very recognizable rooms and areas within them. Where I spent a lot of time in Skyrim caves back tracking because every nook and cranny looked similar, I've not run into that problem in Elden Ring.
Every time I stumble upon a new area in Elden Ring, I gawk at how incredibly oppressive or incredibly vast or incredibly beautiful the area is. Rare was the time that happened in Skyrim. Elden Ring even presents bigger and better dragon fights.
I don't get why you think mouse and keyboard should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on PC? Do you play sports games like NHL and Fifa with mouse and keyboard? Or platform games? Racing games?
RTS and FPS sure, but just get a controller and use it for games that are better with it.
I hear what you are saying but at the same time when only 10% of gamers on Steam use a controller it seems better to cater to the control scheme 90% of a platform's userbase relies on.
Why should there be a mandated control scheme? Sure, some games have mechanics that naturally make it difficult to play with a controller or a mouse or whatever. But a lot of games don't and choose to be unplayable on a controller even though they could be very controller friendly with just a little bit of work to add some control options. I think that's dumb.
Sorry this doesn't really answer the question to me because the combat systems aren't even similar in any way. How is the open world part of ER better than Skyrim? How are the quests better? Why not compare ER questing to The Witcher 3 questing. Because that seems like a much more apt comparison. When comparing the open world of ER to Skyrim what makes that open world better?
How about other open world games like Breath of the Wild, The Witcher 3, and newer titles? I feel like the comparisons to Skyrim miss what has made it very popular and that is the ability to mod the experience to make it exactly what you want. With ER being a GaaS game complete with Battle Pass and RMT game cash conversions it seems like it can't deliver on that at all.
Do you want an ultra wide screen experience in Skyrim that isn't supported natively? Then mods will do it. In ER you will get your game account banned for the same thing in what isn't really a single or multiplayer experience but some sort of hybrid with the disadvantages of both worlds with none of the benefits.
Don't like the combat in Skyrim, that can be modded as well, as you point out. If you don't like the combat in ER then you're shit out of luck.
Don't like how questing works in vanilla Skyrim then you can play one of the many mods available. One of our own forum members offers a full conversion mode of the game experience with deep questing. Does ER offer that?
So how is the much more restrictive and constrained environment of ER better than the completely open ended experience that Skyrim offers?
We're talking about the games as they were designed by the actual development studios. I get that modders fix and improve a lot about Skyrim. But that's the real apples to oranges comparison here. Vanilla Skyrim's open world is inferior to Elden Ring's imo.
Elder Scrolls has long been about being an open world RPG with a focus on exploration, back through to Morrowind in 2002. Elden Ring just does the open world exploration much better. With a modernized engine and willingness to untether themselves from a 10 year old RPG character development system, I'm scared of what's possible with FromSoftware in the best way possible. But they sorely need to let go of those old systems and engine.
Elden Ring is great because it does Skyrim much better than Skyrim did...
What does this mean? How so and what makes it better? Nothing I've seen with game play leads me to see this at all.
Well, combat is better hands down in Elden Ring, that's not even for debate. The only way to achieve interesting combat in Skyrim is through mods (some of them are amazing).
However the questing is so much better in Skyrim and the lore more accessible (and deeper?). NPC interactions is also more engaging making Skyrim more alive than Elden Ring. But here one could argue, that the world is such a mess in Elden Ring because of lore: playing Elden feels like a post-apocalyptic-fantasy because this is basically what happened.
Sorry this doesn't really answer the question to me because the combat systems aren't even similar in any way. How is the open world part of ER better than Skyrim? How are the quests better? Why not compare ER questing to The Witcher 3 questing. Because that seems like a much more apt comparison. When comparing the open world of ER to Skyrim what makes that open world better?
How about other open world games like Breath of the Wild, The Witcher 3, and newer titles? I feel like the comparisons to Skyrim miss what has made it very popular and that is the ability to mod the experience to make it exactly what you want. With ER being a GaaS game complete with Battle Pass and RMT game cash conversions it seems like it can't deliver on that at all.
Do you want an ultra wide screen experience in Skyrim that isn't supported natively? Then mods will do it. In ER you will get your game account banned for the same thing in what isn't really a single or multiplayer experience but some sort of hybrid with the disadvantages of both worlds with none of the benefits.
Don't like the combat in Skyrim, that can be modded as well, as you point out. If you don't like the combat in ER then you're shit out of luck.
Don't like how questing works in vanilla Skyrim then you can play one of the many mods available. One of our own forum members offers a full conversion mode of the game experience with deep questing. Does ER offer that?
So how is the much more restrictive and constrained environment of ER better than the completely open ended experience that Skyrim offers?
LOL? There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I love Skyrim. It is a game I drop every single year to come back into it systematically. I love the open world in Skyrim. I love the mods as well. I love the art, especially the draugh's related one.
AFAIK, there is no battlepass or Gaas component in ER. What are you talking about?
Account banned in ER? I don't get it. Is that a thing?
I like the hybrid multiplayer experience, especially activating the blood pools to witness others' death. Seeing their ghost is also interesting, making you feel a little bit less alone and still maintaining the fact that you play as the main character. Plus it soften a little bit a difficulty that is originally high.
Please read me again, and proceed to some fact checking.
So how is the much more restrictive and constrained environment of ER better than the completely open ended experience that Skyrim offers?
I only have about 25 hours but I don't feel that the environment is restrictive at all. I am going about exploring the world and haven't beat the first story boss yet. I think some areas are locked behind story progression, but it seems you have a lot of freedom. I think I could play 50-60 hours without fighting the first boss.
Now that I think about, I played Oblivion and Morrowind extensively without ever completing the main story. This feels like that.
The level design also seems more interesting in Elden Ring. Skyrim had Blackreach, but Elden Ring feels like one big Blackreach. I just want to keep going further and further to see what's next, checking every nook and cranny.
Skyrim does give me a similar feeling, but Elden Ring has better and more varied encounters. I do love the atmosphere in Skyrim though, especially the ambient soundtrack. I still listen to it all the time.
So how is the much more restrictive and constrained environment of ER better than the completely open ended experience that Skyrim offers?
I only have about 25 hours but I don't feel that the environment is restrictive at all. I am going about exploring the world and haven't beat the first story boss yet. I think some areas are locked behind story progression, but it seems you have a lot of freedom. I think I could play 50-60 hours without fighting the first boss.
Now that I think about, I played Oblivion and Morrowind extensively without ever completing the main story. This feels like that.
The level design also seems more interesting in Elden Ring. Skyrim had Blackreach, but Elden Ring feels like one big Blackreach. I just want to keep going further and further to see what's next, checking every nook and cranny.
Skyrim does give me a similar feeling, but Elden Ring has better and more varied encounters. I do love the atmosphere in Skyrim though, especially the ambient soundtrack. I still listen to it all the time.
Also, the horse can double jump.
I should clarify, since I've been harsh in the comparison, that I also think Skyrim is a really good game. Voice acting, quests, and the lore are all really good.
Like you, I find the world building done by FromSoftware to be next level, though.
Also: Torrent the horse is a boss. Dude can take a beating like the toughest bosses.
I'm trying to enjoy the game, but as a PC player with mouse and keyboard, I have to say that the UI is the least intuitive and most f'd up I've ever seen. That alone makes the game very hard to play.
I actually said the same thing in another post. Come to find out there is a setting to change things from controller default to mouse and keyboard and it makes everything much smoother. Still has consoles in mind but much more enjoyable.
I remember having fits trying to play Dark Souls 2 on PC with mouse and keyboard...It just didnt work...Some games are just meant to be played with a controller.
I only have about 10 hours in. For me, difficult games like this, or at least "more challenging games" require a certain amount of time and dedication. Therefore I need to make sure I've set aside that time.
I suspect a lot of people who have purchased this game are quite frankly taking their time.
Steam chart says only about 77% of players have made it to the Roundtable (the hub area) which can be done in less than an hour playing normally. What you're saying might be true for more than a few people. Although, I don't know if Steam counts achievements for people who refund a game but if they do that might account for it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I don't get why you think mouse and keyboard should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on PC? Do you play sports games like NHL and Fifa with mouse and keyboard? Or platform games? Racing games?
RTS and FPS sure, but just get a controller and use it for games that are better with it.
I have a hard time playing anything that requires moving and aiming with a controller. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the superior accuracy of using a M&K. It's taken a bit of get the hang of it, but I've been able to play with M&K just fine.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I'm about 100 hours in so far (some of that I just left the game running while a got something to eat or whatever) and I just beat Radahn tonight. I've spent most of my time exploring the world, collecting gear and resources and killing optional bosses. Oh, and killing a certain bird repeatedly for fat runes.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I’m a Souls veteran from Demons Souls. I’ve platinumed each game other than blood borne. From experience, it pays to explore and I’ve sinked almost 80 hours into the game and I’m still in Liurnia -_- Personally I love the game, I love the world! I hate open world games for the overwhelming amount of things to do; I get bothered if I leave a stone unturned but it also bothers me that I haven’t made much progress and found the next boss after Godrick. It’s not the difficulty… it’s literally time consuming!!! I prefer a more linear/smaller game. Yet I find myself exploring every cliff and every cave and still discovering things my friends overlooked.
I already had 15+ hours under my belt before unlocking levelling up. Now with 40+ hours Margit still isn’t anywhere in sight. I have however made myself a nice Bloodloss / Int character. Next milestone is respeccing into a Faith character so I can wield the massive Holy/Bloodloss scythe I have found. Those are the real stories, not the silly path you can follow. Ohh, and Agheel and how I decided to kill him with just a dagger.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I’m a Souls veteran from Demons Souls. I’ve platinumed each game other than blood borne. From experience, it pays to explore and I’ve sinked almost 80 hours into the game and I’m still in Liurnia -_- Personally I love the game, I love the world! I hate open world games for the overwhelming amount of things to do; I get bothered if I leave a stone unturned but it also bothers me that I haven’t made much progress and found the next boss after Godrick. It’s not the difficulty… it’s literally time consuming!!! I prefer a more linear/smaller game. Yet I find myself exploring every cliff and every cave and still discovering things my friends overlooked.
Welcome to the forums!
You obviously don't actually want a more linear game because like me you have to stick your nose in everywhere. That's the joy of a more open world but it does mean we lag behind in multiplayer.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
That was just a stupid sarcasm from my behalf. Well maybe not that stupid when we look at gaming industry's history
Difficult and challenging indeed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It makes sense, but honestly I hate (= I am bad at) camera management with a stick. It feels so more natural and especially accurate with a mouse.
Now I know that there is a lock-on, but you don't want all of your fights on lock-on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tb3x46/margit_the_fell_omen_rl1_without/
That was not me of course, I am way below this level of skill
Elden Ring is great because it does Skyrim much better than Skyrim did, not because the UI, the camera, the death system, and the combat mechanics are good. It's great in spite of those things being very objectively bad for 2022.
I can enjoy the former type of difficulty presented by Souls games. The latter should've been improved upon years ago, and the only thing that saved Elden Ring from being a mediocre, hard-core Souls fan service only, is the great open world.
But what kind of difficulty? I adore games that are mentally difficult. Games that require twitch skills or memorization of mechanics? Meh.
Difficulty is also relative. There are millions of disabled gamers, almost none of which have the exact same accessibility needs. This plus a gamer population that now spans from young kids to senior citizens makes me think you'll never see a truly difficult MMO that has earned the "Massive" part of the description. Niche MMO, perhaps.
I don't get why you think a controller should be the default controller for every game just cause it is on Console? Do you play fps games like halo and cod with a controller? Or rts games? mmo's?
Whereas Skyrim's labrythine dungeon features were muddled by poor level design, Elden Ring's most complex areas still have very recognizable rooms and areas within them. Where I spent a lot of time in Skyrim caves back tracking because every nook and cranny looked similar, I've not run into that problem in Elden Ring.
Every time I stumble upon a new area in Elden Ring, I gawk at how incredibly oppressive or incredibly vast or incredibly beautiful the area is. Rare was the time that happened in Skyrim. Elden Ring even presents bigger and better dragon fights.
Elder Scrolls has long been about being an open world RPG with a focus on exploration, back through to Morrowind in 2002. Elden Ring just does the open world exploration much better. With a modernized engine and willingness to untether themselves from a 10 year old RPG character development system, I'm scared of what's possible with FromSoftware in the best way possible. But they sorely need to let go of those old systems and engine.
I love the open world in Skyrim. I love the mods as well. I love the art, especially the draugh's related one.
Now that I think about, I played Oblivion and Morrowind extensively without ever completing the main story. This feels like that.
The level design also seems more interesting in Elden Ring. Skyrim had Blackreach, but Elden Ring feels like one big Blackreach. I just want to keep going further and further to see what's next, checking every nook and cranny.
Skyrim does give me a similar feeling, but Elden Ring has better and more varied encounters. I do love the atmosphere in Skyrim though, especially the ambient soundtrack. I still listen to it all the time.
Also, the horse can double jump.
Like you, I find the world building done by FromSoftware to be next level, though.
Also: Torrent the horse is a boss. Dude can take a beating like the toughest bosses.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I actually said the same thing in another post. Come to find out there is a setting to change things from controller default to mouse and keyboard and it makes everything much smoother. Still has consoles in mind but much more enjoyable.
Steam chart says only about 77% of players have made it to the Roundtable (the hub area) which can be done in less than an hour playing normally. What you're saying might be true for more than a few people. Although, I don't know if Steam counts achievements for people who refund a game but if they do that might account for it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I have a hard time playing anything that requires moving and aiming with a controller. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the superior accuracy of using a M&K. It's taken a bit of get the hang of it, but I've been able to play with M&K just fine.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You obviously don't actually want a more linear game because like me you have to stick your nose in everywhere. That's the joy of a more open world but it does mean we lag behind in multiplayer.