Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
They are not better people, they are better at their game of choice. Why do you get so worked up over something as unimportant as a videogame? You don’t need to be an elite player to have an elite attitude as you have been demonstrating here over and over again. The only one taking this really serious is you, you rage against your self created problem.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Post edited by lahnmir on
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Oh I am well aware, I have seen a lot of posts defending gear based pvp in mmorpgs and a lot of butthurt when scaling or gear having no effect in pvp systems are introduced xd
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
You have no idea of who I am, and who "unserious" I take video games these days.
I had my "hardcore period" long ago, during WotLK and Cataclysm mostly, and for having had that experience, which you obviously didn't have, I agree that people doing the hardest content deserve better rewards, or at least deserve to get those faster since there's more effort involved. Nowadays, I'm playing way more casually and am perfectly content with the stuff I'm getting as reward.
If the game is well designed, you will NOT need raid gear if you don't raid. And most games are actually designed like that. PvP is something appart, and you can gear up separately for it.
There are also games made for people like you. ESO and NW for instance. In both games, you can get some of the best gear just by crafting and trading.
I won't even answer to the stupid analogy with money, here we don't talk about money, this is not a discussion about cash shops, but about difficulty of content.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As I said above: you either choose to work harder and get there, or accept what is given which is enough for the activities you are participating in, or you just cry on a forum about how life is unfair that you can't get raid gear by killing boars in Elwyn Forest (pun intended )
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
You've twisted it.
"People who earn more money than you have more training (most likely) and therefore have better/more high paying jobs which grants them greater rewards.
"People who spend more time training and learning about a game are able to do better content and therefore earn better rewards."
That's what really is at the heart of it here.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
People can buy outfits, which is fine by me but bothers others. Players can buy P2W gear (be it PvE or PvP) as well in some games, that is an issue for me. But players working hard to get raid gear is not an issue, MMOs have real problems currently from P2W to gambling this is two bit side show by comparison.
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
There are also games made for people like you.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Funny......You tell him stop worrying how others are playing, yet you tell him that their are games made for him, and talk about his attitude.
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
There are also games made for people like you.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Funny......You tell him stop worrying how others are playing, yet you tell him that their are games made for him, and talk about his attitude.
Odd
People should stop worrying about how others are playing and there are games made for him.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
There are also games made for people like you.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Funny......You tell him stop worrying how others are playing, yet you tell him that their are games made for him, and talk about his attitude.
Odd
People should stop worrying about how others are playing and there are games made for him.
I wasn't expecting delete to understand what I was saying, thanks for explaining it to him. Not all games should cater to all people. It would be a very boring hobby otherwise.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I would say I revealed the more ugly real side of the issue, in both arguments the person believes they are superior to others and should receive special treatment because of it.
People can twist it so it sounds more acceptable but that is what they are saying at the core of their argument even if it is hidden behind pleasant words.
And then there's me saying everyone should have access to everything given enough time investment.
Which for people who dont treat VIDEO GAMES very seriously would sound like a very normal and correct argument which is the point of this thread considering it showed how vehemently against hardcore players are against such simple and basic
design philosophies.
I had my "hardcore period" long ago, during
WotLK and Cataclysm mostly, and for having had that experience, which
you obviously didn't have, I agree that people doing the hardest content
deserve better rewards, or at least deserve to get those faster since
there's more effort involved. Nowadays, I'm playing way more casually
and am perfectly content with the stuff I'm getting as reward.
You
might say you are casual but your entire mentality about games takes
them very seriously hence why the idea of accessibility and treating
everyone equally scares you so much.
If you honestly didnt see games as something serious, you would so desperately try to argue against what I am saying because you wouldnt be invested in the wrong side.
The problem I have with hardcore guilds is that they make the game a job.
A common example of this is the average raidlogger in WoW which not only treat the game like a job, they complain all the time about how they are forced to do dirty casual content and how much they hate the game for it yet they still play, which is kinda of a huge hint on my point of "their self worth is based on raiding".
Especially in WoW were we reached a point where nothing outside of high end organized content is rewarding because people listened to said raidloggers therefore you raidlog or logout because there's nothing else to do in said lobby game.
You
might say you are casual but your entire mentality about games takes
them very seriously hence why the idea of accessibility and treating
everyone equally scares you so much.
If you honestly didnt see games as something serious, you would so desperately try to argue against what I am saying because you wouldnt be invested in the wrong side.
Pot calling the kettle black again... this is getting really ridiculous.
It's not me (or even us others here in the thread, I'd daresay) starting thread after thread about that same topic. Who is taking games too seriously ? Seems to be YOU, or you wouldn't care at all about how other people are playing, what they are getting, how they are playing.
And about being scared... first, remember what assumptions make of you. Unlike you, I don't feel threatened in any way by someone being better than me at a video game. Seems the one who is permanently scared is you here. I don't give a shit and am just enjoying the games I'm playing.
So yes... pot, kettle, etc. If I was you, I'd stop now, you're digging your own grave and you don't even realize it.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
There are also games made for people like you.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Funny......You tell him stop worrying how others are playing, yet you tell him that their are games made for him, and talk about his attitude.
Odd
People should stop worrying about how others are playing and there are games made for him.
I wasn't expecting delete to understand what I was saying, thanks for explaining it to him. Not all games should cater to all people. It would be a very boring hobby otherwise.
We can't expect ever game to cater for ourselves, but we have seen certain types of gameplay push out others like a cuckoo taking over the MMO nest. Take raiding for example, what Ralphie gets so concerned about; once it was a near certainty every MMO would have raids, now they are not always seen as part of "core gameplay" and not included.
Which, when you think how in end game there is a struggle to come up with consent is strange to me. We need more systems for end game play not just raids, that way you hold players interest in the long term.
Players doing the hardest content and who generally play more than you have more training and are better than those who don't do those things. They therefore deserve higher rewards.
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
Not accepting that means either:
1) working harder to get up there.
2) cry on forums that life is unfair.
That's it.
Outside of the obvious flaw that this is a video game and not real life, this line of thinking has the hilarious similar argument of
"People who earn more money than you in real life have more training and are better therefore deserve the higher rewards" which is where the p2w future is going to.
Which I would personally argue is wrong because it is a VIDEO GAME and not a source of someone's self worth to feel entitled to superior items, but considering you disagree and take video games very seriously you cant really say that way of thinking is wrong xd
There are also games made for people like you.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
As YOURSELF said, stop worrying about how others are playing. Focus on enjoying your play style. You'll be a lot happier. I've been there, done that, that's why I can talk about it.
Funny......You tell him stop worrying how others are playing, yet you tell him that their are games made for him, and talk about his attitude.
Odd
People should stop worrying about how others are playing and there are games made for him.
I wasn't expecting delete to understand what I was saying, thanks for explaining it to him. Not all games should cater to all people. It would be a very boring hobby otherwise.
We can't expect ever game to cater for ourselves, but we have seen certain types of gameplay push out others like a cuckoo taking over the MMO nest. Take raiding for example, what Ralphie gets so concerned about; once it was a near certainty every MMO would have raids, now they are not always seen as part of "core gameplay" and not included.
Which, when you think how in end game there is a struggle to come up with consent is strange to me. We need more systems for end game play not just raids, that way you hold players interest in the long term.
At all times, you had games with raiding and games without.
Actually, the first big "3", EQ, AC1 and UO had only ONE raiding game, and that was EQ. At the time of WoW, you already had dozens of games with different play styles to choose from. Not to mention that in most games, including WoW, raiding was absolutely not mandatory to enjoy the game.
And nowadays, there's really no reason left at all to complain about that. Even in WoW, raiding is less mandatory than ever, and you have raid finder for a quick fix and easy gear way good enough to do everything else in the game.
You know what type of gameplay really pushes others out ? It's not raiding. It's full loot FFA PvP. That gameplay takes over all games it's part of and ruins the rest of the game for people who enjoy other activities like crafting, PvE, etc... and it has been that way since UO.
This said, nobody is forced to play a game with FFA PvP, just as nobody is forced to play a game where raiding is the main "endgame" focus. Just play the games made for your play style instead of wanting all games to cater to you. And for the games who make the mistake to focus on minority play styles, just let them die.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Let me enlighten y'all with my inherent divine knowledge. It is not "casuals" vs "elitists" anymore. "Casuals" is so 2000-2010. There is no more casuals. Everybody is on their screen 24/7.
In fact, there are two types of gamers:
- Group A: basement dwellers that manage to group despite obvious social deficiencies
- Group B: basement dwellers that are hopeless socially speaking
Both types waste an indecent time playing useless games for vain digital rewards and so-called "fun". The only difference is that Group A outperforms Group B for obvious reasons making them horribly jealous and posting their lamentations on gaming forums.
Well when the big bombs hit you'll wish you were a basement dweller !!
radiation meter.. check hot pockets.. check monster drink.. check
I'm considering a sub-basement, actually.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You
might say you are casual but your entire mentality about games takes
them very seriously hence why the idea of accessibility and treating
everyone equally scares you so much.
If you honestly didnt see games as something serious, you would so desperately try to argue against what I am saying because you wouldnt be invested in the wrong side.
So yes... pot, kettle, etc. If I was you, I'd stop now, you're digging your own grave and you don't even realize it.
Ohhh, I think he is very, very, aware of what he is doing. Faux outrage is so hot right now, just pick a platform, put yourself on repeat about a made up issue and ignore any and every response and input you get except that what triggers your repeating patterns. It is just attention we are feeding, not insight, knowledge or understanding, Ralphie isn’t here for that.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I would say I revealed the more ugly real side of the issue, in both arguments the person believes they are superior to others and should receive special treatment because of it.
People can twist it so it sounds more acceptable but that is what they are saying at the core of their argument even if it is hidden behind pleasant words.
And then there's me saying everyone should have access to everything given enough time investment.
No, you haven't you have only pointed out that "some" people believe they are superior to others just like in real life in ANY aspect of human interaction.
Everyone should have access to everything given time and investment congruent with the rules of the game.
If some things require or would be far more manageable with a group then you are going to have to group. Though, come to think about it "all" games make it that everything is available to a player given time and investment so not sure why you would say that,.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Let me enlighten y'all with my inherent divine knowledge. It is not "casuals" vs "elitists" anymore. "Casuals" is so 2000-2010. There is no more casuals. Everybody is on their screen 24/7.
In fact, there are two types of gamers:
- Group A: basement dwellers that manage to group despite obvious social deficiencies
- Group B: basement dwellers that are hopeless socially speaking
Both types waste an indecent time playing useless games for vain digital rewards and so-called "fun". The only difference is that Group A outperforms Group B for obvious reasons making them horribly jealous and posting their lamentations on gaming forums.
Well when the big bombs hit you'll wish you were a basement dweller !!
radiation meter.. check hot pockets.. check monster drink.. check
.50 caliber hand held machine gun, 50K rounds of ammo and power armor suit ... check.
Fallout 76 taught me everything I need to survive the upcoming Holocaust.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A very common thing I notice in the more loud hardcore/high end community is the pure denial and even anger at accusations of elitism or toxicity, there have even been multiple youtubers that have complained about how casuals call them toxic and elitist and their own brain just cant understand how can other possible consider them bad people
They believe they are friendly, they even say how they helped others beat the game and just cant understand why anyone would call them elitist.
This all seems to be centered around the delusion that they are superior/better than casuals because they "beat the game", something that becomes very clear when they try to talk even though they think that is completely normal.
Of course, your instant reaction is to say that isnt true, but that is why words are meaningless and why actions reveal the truth, so let's check common arguments such people make.
1) Countless comments about how everyone should aspire to be like them aka "git gud". Which literally screams "I have achieved the end goal in this game and everyone else behind me should do the same". If you believe you are what others should aspire to,you believe you are better than them.
2) A ton of comments on how the devs should make a game that forces people to git gud therefore saying their way of play is how everyone should be forced to play, literally screaming "I am entitled to force everyone to play the same way as I". If you believe your way of thinking/playing is what everyone else should eventually reach, you believe you are better than them.
3) Countless comments about how high end raiders DESERVE the best items and everyone else should receive inferior items. A bit self explanatory and obvious here.
4) Often saying how they helped others improve and beat the raid which again shows how much they are repulsed by others not playing optimally, it is like they want to eradicate playing games for fun because they have that mentality of:
"Oh this boss takes 15% more fire damage, I better change to the fire weapon that isnt as fun but I dont care about enjoying the gameplay, all I care is beating the boss" (keep in mind that the encounter is absolutely mathematically beatable without said optimal weapon)
Completely failing to realize that people dont play to "win" because many casuals dont need to prove anything to anyone in a video game that is about "fun". In short, if you believe helping casuals become more like you aka git gud is good, you believe you are better than them.
All these suggest that people who make such arguments believe one very clear thing, that they are better, that they know better and that makes them feel ENTITLED to things they shouldnt be including how others should play the game.
A normal attitude would be live and let live, yet we dont see that, we see hardcore players demand special treatment and demand superior items than everyone else to the point you see some people getting triggered when FF14 makes a cool animated armor available to solo que LFR which is the normal and fair thing for all.
Let me suggest something very simple, healthy people dont really care about how others live their life or play a video game though sadly many people fall into this category.
And considering hardcore player behaviour screams of unhealthy issues, from attaching their self worth to achievements and items coming from beating a scripted predictable boss to obsessing over "winning" rather than enjoying the gameplay as if they have something to prove.
This has an air of "I'm better than these so-called elitists, so let me give them some advice."
A very common thing I notice in the more loud hardcore/high end community is the pure denial and even anger at accusations of elitism or toxicity, there have even been multiple youtubers that have complained about how casuals call them toxic and elitist and their own brain just cant understand how can other possible consider them bad people
They believe they are friendly, they even say how they helped others beat the game and just cant understand why anyone would call them elitist.
This all seems to be centered around the delusion that they are superior/better than casuals because they "beat the game", something that becomes very clear when they try to talk even though they think that is completely normal.
Of course, your instant reaction is to say that isnt true, but that is why words are meaningless and why actions reveal the truth, so let's check common arguments such people make.
1) Countless comments about how everyone should aspire to be like them aka "git gud". Which literally screams "I have achieved the end goal in this game and everyone else behind me should do the same". If you believe you are what others should aspire to,you believe you are better than them.
2) A ton of comments on how the devs should make a game that forces people to git gud therefore saying their way of play is how everyone should be forced to play, literally screaming "I am entitled to force everyone to play the same way as I". If you believe your way of thinking/playing is what everyone else should eventually reach, you believe you are better than them.
3) Countless comments about how high end raiders DESERVE the best items and everyone else should receive inferior items. A bit self explanatory and obvious here.
4) Often saying how they helped others improve and beat the raid which again shows how much they are repulsed by others not playing optimally, it is like they want to eradicate playing games for fun because they have that mentality of:
"Oh this boss takes 15% more fire damage, I better change to the fire weapon that isnt as fun but I dont care about enjoying the gameplay, all I care is beating the boss" (keep in mind that the encounter is absolutely mathematically beatable without said optimal weapon)
Completely failing to realize that people dont play to "win" because many casuals dont need to prove anything to anyone in a video game that is about "fun". In short, if you believe helping casuals become more like you aka git gud is good, you believe you are better than them.
All these suggest that people who make such arguments believe one very clear thing, that they are better, that they know better and that makes them feel ENTITLED to things they shouldnt be including how others should play the game.
A normal attitude would be live and let live, yet we dont see that, we see hardcore players demand special treatment and demand superior items than everyone else to the point you see some people getting triggered when FF14 makes a cool animated armor available to solo que LFR which is the normal and fair thing for all.
Let me suggest something very simple, healthy people dont really care about how others live their life or play a video game though sadly many people fall into this category.
And considering hardcore player behaviour screams of unhealthy issues, from attaching their self worth to achievements and items coming from beating a scripted predictable boss to obsessing over "winning" rather than enjoying the gameplay as if they have something to prove.
This has an air of "I'm better than these so-called elitists, so let me give them some advice."
Yeah, it all sounds so, hmmmm, what is the word? Come on guys, help me out here. It sounds so, so…. Wait, wait, I have got it!!! It sounds so elitist. Wow, who DIDN’T see that one coming?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
A very common thing I notice in the more loud hardcore/high end community is the pure denial and even anger at accusations of elitism or toxicity, there have even been multiple youtubers that have complained about how casuals call them toxic and elitist and their own brain just cant understand how can other possible consider them bad people
They believe they are friendly, they even say how they helped others beat the game and just cant understand why anyone would call them elitist.
This all seems to be centered around the delusion that they are superior/better than casuals because they "beat the game", something that becomes very clear when they try to talk even though they think that is completely normal.
Of course, your instant reaction is to say that isnt true, but that is why words are meaningless and why actions reveal the truth, so let's check common arguments such people make.
1) Countless comments about how everyone should aspire to be like them aka "git gud". Which literally screams "I have achieved the end goal in this game and everyone else behind me should do the same". If you believe you are what others should aspire to,you believe you are better than them.
2) A ton of comments on how the devs should make a game that forces people to git gud therefore saying their way of play is how everyone should be forced to play, literally screaming "I am entitled to force everyone to play the same way as I". If you believe your way of thinking/playing is what everyone else should eventually reach, you believe you are better than them.
3) Countless comments about how high end raiders DESERVE the best items and everyone else should receive inferior items. A bit self explanatory and obvious here.
4) Often saying how they helped others improve and beat the raid which again shows how much they are repulsed by others not playing optimally, it is like they want to eradicate playing games for fun because they have that mentality of:
"Oh this boss takes 15% more fire damage, I better change to the fire weapon that isnt as fun but I dont care about enjoying the gameplay, all I care is beating the boss" (keep in mind that the encounter is absolutely mathematically beatable without said optimal weapon)
Completely failing to realize that people dont play to "win" because many casuals dont need to prove anything to anyone in a video game that is about "fun". In short, if you believe helping casuals become more like you aka git gud is good, you believe you are better than them.
All these suggest that people who make such arguments believe one very clear thing, that they are better, that they know better and that makes them feel ENTITLED to things they shouldnt be including how others should play the game.
A normal attitude would be live and let live, yet we dont see that, we see hardcore players demand special treatment and demand superior items than everyone else to the point you see some people getting triggered when FF14 makes a cool animated armor available to solo que LFR which is the normal and fair thing for all.
Let me suggest something very simple, healthy people dont really care about how others live their life or play a video game though sadly many people fall into this category.
And considering hardcore player behaviour screams of unhealthy issues, from attaching their self worth to achievements and items coming from beating a scripted predictable boss to obsessing over "winning" rather than enjoying the gameplay as if they have something to prove.
This has an air of "I'm better than these so-called elitists, so let me give them some advice."
Yeah, it all sounds so, hmmmm, what is the word? Come on guys, help me out here. It sounds so, so…. Wait, wait, I have got it!!! It sounds so elitist. Wow, who DIDN’T see that one coming?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This just sounds like a lot of "Instead of trying to acquire a level of competence in the game; just give me everything right from the getgo."
You're right. It's a video game. It's a media of art from the developers hands who wish to have an easy, a medium, and a hard difficulty; and then want to reward people for completing it on the hard difficulty. Just because it's a video game doesn't mean you're entitled to the achievement on hard difficulty if the developers want to reward people for acquiring that level of competence.
You're entitled to playing the game how you want. The developers are entitled to develop the systems to reward the people they want to reward.
Git gud scrub. The irony of you calling people toxic when you're just toxic on the other end of the spectrum.
Comments
Just like Serena Williams or Raphael Nadal are better tennis players than you.
That's it.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Oh I am well aware, I have seen a lot of posts defending gear based pvp in mmorpgs and a lot of butthurt when scaling or gear having no effect in pvp systems are introduced xd
If the game is well designed, you will NOT need raid gear if you don't raid. And most games are actually designed like that. PvP is something appart, and you can gear up separately for it.
There are also games made for people like you. ESO and NW for instance. In both games, you can get some of the best gear just by crafting and trading.
I won't even answer to the stupid analogy with money, here we don't talk about money, this is not a discussion about cash shops, but about difficulty of content.
And sorry to say, but your attitude actually reeks of envy and jealousy.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
"People who earn more money than you have more training (most likely) and therefore have better/more high paying jobs which grants them greater rewards.
"People who spend more time training and learning about a game are able to do better content and therefore earn better rewards."
That's what really is at the heart of it here.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Odd
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I wasn't expecting delete to understand what I was saying, thanks for explaining it to him. Not all games should cater to all people. It would be a very boring hobby otherwise.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
A common example of this is the average raidlogger in WoW which not only treat the game like a job, they complain all the time about how they are forced to do dirty casual content and how much they hate the game for it yet they still play, which is kinda of a huge hint on my point of "their self worth is based on raiding".
Who is taking games too seriously ? Seems to be YOU, or you wouldn't care at all about how other people are playing, what they are getting, how they are playing.
And about being scared... first, remember what assumptions make of you.
Unlike you, I don't feel threatened in any way by someone being better than me at a video game. Seems the one who is permanently scared is you here. I don't give a shit and am just enjoying the games I'm playing.
So yes... pot, kettle, etc. If I was you, I'd stop now, you're digging your own grave and you don't even realize it.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Which, when you think how in end game there is a struggle to come up with consent is strange to me. We need more systems for end game play not just raids, that way you hold players interest in the long term.
At the time of WoW, you already had dozens of games with different play styles to choose from.
Not to mention that in most games, including WoW, raiding was absolutely not mandatory to enjoy the game.
And nowadays, there's really no reason left at all to complain about that. Even in WoW, raiding is less mandatory than ever, and you have raid finder for a quick fix and easy gear way good enough to do everything else in the game.
You know what type of gameplay really pushes others out ? It's not raiding. It's full loot FFA PvP. That gameplay takes over all games it's part of and ruins the rest of the game for people who enjoy other activities like crafting, PvE, etc... and it has been that way since UO.
This said, nobody is forced to play a game with FFA PvP, just as nobody is forced to play a game where raiding is the main "endgame" focus. Just play the games made for your play style instead of wanting all games to cater to you. And for the games who make the mistake to focus on minority play styles, just let them die.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Everyone should have access to everything given time and investment congruent with the rules of the game.
If some things require or would be far more manageable with a group then you are going to have to group. Though, come to think about it "all" games make it that everything is available to a player given time and investment so not sure why you would say that,.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Fallout 76 taught me everything I need to survive the upcoming Holocaust.
Pass the Nuka Cola please.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This Hooman gets it....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You're right. It's a video game. It's a media of art from the developers hands who wish to have an easy, a medium, and a hard difficulty; and then want to reward people for completing it on the hard difficulty. Just because it's a video game doesn't mean you're entitled to the achievement on hard difficulty if the developers want to reward people for acquiring that level of competence.
You're entitled to playing the game how you want. The developers are entitled to develop the systems to reward the people they want to reward.
Git gud scrub. The irony of you calling people toxic when you're just toxic on the other end of the spectrum.