The only thing I can tell you here is that you are basing your whole argument on what's "natural" and "unnatural" or "moral" and immoral". That's very ambiguous at the least. Ambiguous? Heh...Yes, as of late, morals have been very *ambiguous* to the common-folk - or so they seem to show the lack of comprehension so as to think as such - Which is why I suppose most people have adopted the morals of no morals. What's natural for you may be unnatural for someone else. Ahh, relativism - Such a nasty, nasty lil' thing. That's a judgement best left to an individual on his own behalf. There is a thing called *moral law*, if we always let the individual judge on their own behalf, instead of what is factually right, we'd be in anarchy - As seen by the turmoil and corruption that runs rampant through the immoral cesspool; the world - Particularly the west/western minded. And yes, we gay people are trying to start a family. So what. You're trying to place your morals on us. They don't match mine. Obviously not, you're a self-declared homosexual. And me living my way of life with my view of family is not effecting you in any way shape or form. Since I have no personal ties to you, nor know of anyone that I consider family/friends does either - Then yes, you are correct - To an extent. But that could be said of anything - Take your pick of a crime or immoral act, and you could say the same thing to me, and you would be correct - To an extent. Fifty years ago when your type of ilk were for the most part in the closet, your *people* had almost no sway on the society - The nuclear family stayed intact, you had no politicians with a homosexual agenda, etc. etc. - But things digressed, and here the west is, on a landslide into the abyss. I'm not coming into your home tell you how to live your life or raise your family, I expect the same from you. It's my pursuit of happiness. Deal with it. And quit trying to place your morals on someone else. Live your life with your morals and I'll live my life with mine. I'm not apathetic enough, sorry. And if you're so scared of "mentalities" seeping themselves into your family then build a moat and lock yourselves in the house. Society is full of different people. Quit being so freaked out over people who don't think like you. Go all amish eh? I don't think so, I enjoy things like electricity; I just do not enjoy immorality, which I suppose would make me almost like the amish, eh? Anyhow, I have no problem with different people, I have a problem with immoral people.
And you still didn't explain how gay marriage or civil unions is going to effect your family. It won't. It can't. So try again.
Was explained above.
How do you know they weren't gay friendly? How do you know what they did in their personal lives?
Uhh, right - I'm sure they were secretly homosexual and had some underground gay alliance to liberate their homosexual brethren!
I mean are you kidding me? You're going to base this off of, "They never openly condemned homosexuals. So that must mean they were gay friendly!"
They didn't need to, it was common sense morality to them - Or common law, whichever you prefer. It's like saying because they didn't openly condemn murder or some other crime - Which was part of the common law - They could have been gay friendly!
Unfounded presumptions in a debate look rather poorly...
And whether you like it or not, times change.
Back and forth, back and forth - We were on a tight reign of morality, now we're going back to becoming Babylon, Rome, Sodom; take your pick.
Society's change. Viewpoints change.
Viewpoints only gain or lose popularity.
That's why it's illegal for folks to take people like me and stone us.
It's illegal for others to take people like Charles Manson and stone him!
That's why the thought of somone like Hitler putting pink triangles on us the same way he labeled the jews doesn't sit well with people anymore. We're getting our message out to kind folks. We're just human beings who were born different.
Since when has homosexuality been a congenital defect?
And slowly but surely people are listening and believing us when we tell them this truth. I know that bothers you. But I'm not sorry. I'm tired of your beliefs and your ancient religions condemning us. We're creations of God just like you.
First you condemn the "ancient religions" for condemning you, but then you bring God into the argument?
Make up your mind, which way do you want it? With or without God? Or have you just made up your own version of God to suit your conscience?
And everyone may be created by God, but not everyone is of God.
And I'm proud of who I am and who I was made to love. And everyday more and more people around the world are coming onto my side. Because they are learning that we're just honest and kind people trying to live life just like they are. You're going to eventually have to deal with that. Hate me if you like, but I'm an American too.
Why would I hate you? And what's being American have to do with anything?
And I was promised the same rights as you were.
By whom?
I'll get them eventually. Just like slaves and women have.
Heh, I figured that cliche correlation would find itself somewhere in here.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
First read our bill of right, then the constitution, and, after that if you still have the time the declaration of independance.
Every citizen is given thier right to freedom of speech. But, there is no right that requires you to listen. The KKK has not been flourishing at all thier numbers are but, a fraction of what they formally were, they're a minority now and are watched by the government especially ones with neo-nazi idealism.
The elections aren't rigged last I checked. If you don't know the process allow me to clear it up for you.
Popular vote is not the reason a president is elected into office. Electoral votes from each state is what instates the candidate as the new president. Before you start thinking it's unfair and rigged lets clear it up some more.
Each state is given an electoral vote for the amount of people counted in the states census, far as I know it's updated every year. So, even if you win the popular vote and it's doesn't mean you have won the electoral vote or states. If a state's electoral college representative votes against the majority popular vote supporting the presidential candidate, that representative will have some extensive explaining to do in their immediate future. And, if his principles don't meet up with his responsibilities that individual will most likely be taken out of office or, quickly replaced.
The human race is not perfect, Canada is actually now following in the footsteps of the U.S., if I recall your new Prime Minister is in actuallity a republican supporter? I guess, it was done this way to allow a few years of compatibility with us.
When I hear our national anthem playing, I stand in respect. When I hear God Bless America, I sit or, walk somewhere else.
@Aldaron Take a step back and look at what you're saying. You're arguing that your morals are in some way better or more justified than his. How about you just become a bit more accepting of other people, then you wouldn't come across as an elitist with a chip on his shoulder.... Or you can continue pushing your anti-homosexual agenda...it's up to you.
You know asking that question is very much like asking a mother if she loves her children more than the other children.
I don't expect canadadians to "love" america as much as they "love" thier own country. And if you haven't actually LIVED in another country, what are you going to base that on?
America isn't very popular right now and personally as an American I'm pretty embarassed to live here. Bush can't be elected again so we can only hope that the next presidents platform will be to repair the relations and the image that Bush has brought on this country.
And thats all i'm gonna say...except that...
Liechtenstein is my favorite country and will soon DOMINATE THE WORLD.
Well I want to make a stand-alone comment. I read all of the posts and most I think they do not know what they are writeing and just reechoing stuff, what did not come out of their own mind.
Those sheets which I saw, say nothing, absolutly nothing at all. What it helps you that a country is better in freedom or economics if you cant speak their language? If you dont know their culture or their society? Do you think it would be better then because of what so called experts say? I saw in the US a newspaper discriminating a judge because he sent a black to prison and a white got free. As most of you said I went to the court and wanted to have a look at the public records. I got denied to see them as I showed as my ID my Greencard. Me not stupid jumped out and gave some money to a citizen to go in and have a look at them. Those "public record" were not available for him either. I am still waiting to see another newspaper bringing out news that the "bad" newsbaper is getting sued for bringing out wrong news.
I have a college degree from germany. Now at the beginning, after I got my workpermit, I got by many companys declined because they say, I do not even have a Highschool degree. It was pure luck that I am accepted with my skills and knowledge in a company which values me. Pure luck. Of course this sounds unbelievable for many of you, but I tell the truth here. I wouldnt have expected those reactions I got as I still lived in germany. I thought capitalism is way higher in the US than patriotism. Any normal person would see, if this person is an asset, lets hire him/her for the correct wage. Maybe i picked the wrong state in the first place. (lucky it turned out good in the end tho)
In case Phonix reads this, I think you made the right choice if you never want to leave your country. Otherwise I tell you, your education will be most probably worth nothing except for yourself, because of "patriotism" which you will have in any other country.
The USA has more freedom if you are accepted in the society, way less freedom if you are not. But thats counts for every other country as well. The country were you been born in, knowing the rules and language and people, will offer you your most individual freedom, as long you are accepted. You would need luck otherwise and on luck is hard to count on.
I do not blame the whole US on what Bush did, but why I so often hear as first reaction about germany: Hitler and questions if Germany is still a Nazi country of citizen? Education in the USA is way to expensive for many people to afford. They will die stupid, not knowing how much they are missing out. Yet many are still friendly as long you talk to them alone.
Edit: and on the plant post by AlexAmore. I agree with you there. Staying behind a car for 4 seconds will kill more brain cells than this plant will ever kill and the reason why it is illleage is, that nobody can make money of it if you grow it yourself. Of course I play by the rules I accepted as I came into the country, but you can be sure that I will go to amsterdam as soon I visit Germany. (Amsterdam is not in germany, but pretty close to it, just for those people who doesnt know geographie or been bad in it) Religion is really way to much in Texas at least....I know that, because I got asked in a grocery store if i want to join a certain church and that not only 1 time. I just hope it isnt like this in other states.
Edit: actually ValiumSummer said it way shorter than I did....
Edit: in case you have to quote me, quote what you are referring to. I doubt I am wrong in everything.
Originally posted by Seelendieb In case Phonix reads this, I think you made the right choice if you never want to leave your country. Otherwise I tell you, your education will be most probably worth nothing except for yourself, because of "patriotism" which you will have in any other country.
The USA has more freedom if you are accepted in the society, way less freedom if you are not. But thats counts for every other country as well. The country were you been born in, knowing the rules and language and people, will offer you your most individual freedom, as long you are accepted. You would need luck otherwise and on luck is hard to count on.
Well I haven't decided never to leave Norway. Infact I'm planing to take my education in a university abroad. To extend my horizon, meet new people, a new society and a warmer climate But I have decided it's not going to be USA. Atm it's most likely to be my birth country Germany.
The USA has more freedom if you are accepted in the society, way less freedom if you are not. That was one of my concerns when I was thinking about USA. One of the things that made me not go there.
Now if someone feels well in a country or not, that those lists can't prove. Since this depends on you. But they scientifically show the best countries in the world.
So:
1. No it's not the best country in the world. 2. It has been great on several areas. But overall it hasn't been the greatest country.
USA is the greatest in some areas. Economy and power specially. But it's lacking in other areas.
I personally couldn't live in the USA. 6 months ago I was considering the study in USA. But I turned it down. It was too religious, too politically different and it clashed with many of my values.
I also find it abit weird that the country that upholds freedom as one of it's greatest values, score rather bad on the list over press freedom. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=554
What do you mean you couldn't live in the US? What is so bad can you be more descriptive?
Well I think I wrote what I thought was bad. It's too religious. I don't think I have to explain that one more. Politically it's totally different than me and many of my values clash with the overall american attitude. I think I would feel very well. There are many things that appeal with USA. But in the end I decided it was best not too go there. I felt the risk for me not being able to feel well in your culture and your politics was to great, to justifie the rather big expenses that education would give me.
Yeah i knew what you wrote but i was just wondering more details. I think your steryotyping america a little too much, I can and do clearly state my Religious views and im not persecuted. I was just wondering what some values you have that are different about american?
You can be right. Maybe I'm sterotyping it to much. I'm aware that it can be better than it seems. That there are alot of nice people in the USA. But I can only base my thoughts on what I see, hear over here, talking to people that have been there and the impressions I get by talking to americans.
Conservative/Religious: USA is more conservative and religious than many western countries. Some states more than others. I'm not to fond of religion itself. It puts a gap between people. It says that some people are less worth than others. Non believers etc. I believe that all people have equal rights and that they have the same value. Dark, Asian, Gay, it doesn't matter. I don't judge people based on that. Abortion law that might spread, alot of despise of gay people from the religious. There is alot that goes against my beliefs. And people like Aldaron show the things that trouble me. It's mostly here that I feel that my values clash with USA.
Politics: I don't think I have to say much here. I don't agree with the current direction american politics have taken. The arrogance, entnosentrismn (spelling?) and lack of will to try to understand different societies. It's like everything not like USA = bad. Not much more to say about foreign affairs. Regarding healthcare, social security, education I don't like what USA does there either. I could go on and on about it, but to make it short. I don't liike how it's based on your income and your status. I don't like how poor people get bad out of it.
At the current moment I couldn't live in the USA. When I get older it might change, I might dare to take the risk to see how it's to live there. But not atm.
Originally posted by 4est90 Originally posted by 4est90 What are you talking about, all your website shows is that America spends more time and money on technology that helps speed up the process faster then canada. The two greatest problems with the current Canadian system, waiting lists and a shortage of sophisticated diagnostic machines, may result from this lack of flexibility. Canadian does have better numbers then us which is fine I stated my other post bad i guess. Im sry if Im making you angry that i don't know my graphs very good. But America does have a better freedom of speech and less government then most other countries. That might be why they call it the land of oppurtunity. The United States has since the Sherman Anti-Trust Act been strongly opposed to monopolies. In Canada this has been far less of an issue, and Canada has never had rigorously enforced rules against monopolization, and in certain situations the government has even encouraged monopolies. However, the Canadian government is more willing to interfere in the operations of large, integrated firms where they appear to be acting against the public interest, offsetting in part one reason that American law prevents large-scale monopolization. Canadian government is more involved in civilian life then the American gov. The mere fact that most fundings in Canada such as funding towards universities is at a national level compared to American schools being state funded is a black and white example of how America is less government in society. You cant say that the American gov. is constricting to its citizens. Government is a very basic level in daily life and any less would be like anarchy. If we did not have a certain amount of laws then how could you say that killing someone is bad or stealing is wrong. There is a certain level of laws needed and restrictions to be able to protect all people and their rights as Americans. Our country has done a very good job at staying a basic level in society and economy.
America is the most free nation? Oh, really... Seems in 6 years we went from 4th freest to 9th. Yeah, we're kicking some butt. OH, and look who's right below us at number 10 for 2006. CANADA!!! And this is from the Heritage Foundation. A conservative group!
The Washington, D.C. based Heritage Foundation's 2000 Index of Economic Freedom, compiled by famed Austrian economist Gerald P. O'Driscoll, along with Kim R. Holmes and Melanie Kirkpatrick, provides the following list of the top 15 "freest" places on Earth. 1. Hong Kong 2. Singapore 3. NEW ZEALAND 4. Bahrain 4. Luxembourg 4. USA 7. Ireland 8. Australia 8. Switzerland 8. UK 11. Canada 11. CHILE 11. El Salvador 11. Taiwan 15. Austria 15. Netherlands
First of your chart is showing ECONOMIC FREEDOM , im talking about the common rights as Americans. Second all the countries ahead are probably some of the smallest and truly unimportant countries when it comes to world economy. None of those countries have any true problems. America has the largest diversity by far when it comes to almost everything. We have the best and the worst of all things. An example of this is the mere fact that we have elementry level people like you here living in this country with no sense of knowledge and pride for what has been given to you. We also have the best such as Ronald Reagan who helped bring this nation to what could be considered it peak so far. You can't even come close to calling yourself wise or all knowing by the mere fact that you are only talk. You people only talk about what is wrong and never act on it. It is better to have acted for something right and messed up then sit back and complain about what should have happen. Its really easy to say that ECONOMICLY we arent the freest when we are being compared to place like Bahrain or luxemburg. If you have any solutions for this "problem" then please share it to me. Otherwise stay out of politics or actually even economy.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age: 15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
ALSO COULD YOU PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age: 15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
ALSO COULD YOU PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
America is the most free nation? Oh, really... Seems in 6 years we went from 4th freest to 9th. Yeah, we're kicking some butt. OH, and look who's right below us at number 10 for 2006. CANADA!!! And this is from the Heritage Foundation. A conservative group!
The Washington, D.C. based Heritage Foundation's 2000 Index of Economic Freedom, compiled by famed Austrian economist Gerald P. O'Driscoll, along with Kim R. Holmes and Melanie Kirkpatrick, provides the following list of the top 15 "freest" places on Earth.
1. Hong Kong 2. Singapore 3. NEW ZEALAND 4. Bahrain 4. Luxembourg 4. USA 7. Ireland 8. Australia 8. Switzerland 8. UK 11. Canada 11. CHILE 11. El Salvador 11. Taiwan 15. Austria 15. Netherlands
First of your chart is showing ECONOMIC FREEDOM , im talking about the common rights as Americans.
Second all the countries ahead are probably some of the smallest and truly unimportant countries when it comes to world economy. None of those countries have any true problems. America has the largest diversity by far when it comes to almost everything. We have the best and the worst of all things.
An example of this is the mere fact that we have elementry level people like you here living in this country with no sense of knowledge and pride for what has been given to you. We also have the best such as Ronald Reagan who helped bring this nation to what could be considered it peak so far.
You can't even come close to calling yourself wise or all knowing by the mere fact that you are only talk. You people only talk about what is wrong and never act on it. It is better to have acted for something right and messed up then sit back and complain about what should have happen. Its really easy to say that ECONOMICLY we arent the freest when we are being compared to place like Bahrain or luxemburg.
If you have any solutions for this "problem" then please share it to me. Otherwise stay out of politics or actually even economy.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age: 15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
ALSO COULD YOU PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age:
15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
ALSO COULD YOU PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
Originally posted by porgie I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age: 15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
wow, that's mature. "I was about to make an argument your statement, but then i saw that you were 15. lawl. n00b. go back to wow, roflcopter." if its one thing about ad hominems is the fact that it truely shows the weakness of someones intellect when it comes to debates.
wow, that's mature.
"I was about to make an argument your statement, but then i saw that you were 15. lawl. n00b. go back to wow, roflcopter."
if its one thing about ad hominems is the fact that it truely shows the weakness of someones intellect when it comes to debates.
Originally posted by reavo Ahhhhh, the joys of being 15. When you get to run your mouth with no repurcussions. LOL!!!
this is the internet, you dont got to be 15 to get away with that.
You no whats funny, u guys havent even said anything that would show that your smarter then me, u keep talking about how im to young but if your so smart from experience then please tell me what you were about to argue about(which is probably nothing cuz all you people ever do is complain and talk about what u would do instead of doing it.
im not gunna argue anymore, theres no point. If your not gunna answer me and argue with me with facts instead of only talking about my age then theres no point on saying ne thing at all. Its getting boring also. O welll im not talking about this ne more. cya in another forum.
America is not the best country. I personally hate America. Some of the people there are so arrogant and sometimes if they win something like the world cup, they will never stop bragging about it. They also think that they are the best in every single thing and they try to show off as much as they can. I hate America more than any other country in the world. And for all the people that live in America but are not like this, well I am sorry but I am just stating my opinion about America. Now on the Canada. Sure, Canada can be a good country SOMETIMES, but like in America some people in Canada can be very rude and arrogant. Canada also allows same sex marriage. Some people think that same-sex marriage is really bad but what has it ever done to you. If people want to be gay then we should just let them because they do not bother us. Finally I will end by saying that even though America and Canada can be bad countrys at times, they can also be good ones.
Originally posted by Aldaron Originally posted by upallnight
The only thing I can tell you here is that you are basing your whole argument on what's "natural" and "unnatural" or "moral" and immoral". That's very ambiguous at the least. Ambiguous? Heh...Yes, as of late, morals have been very *ambiguous* to the common-folk - or so they seem to show the lack of comprehension so as to think as such - Which is why I suppose most people have adopted the morals of no morals. What's natural for you may be unnatural for someone else. Ahh, relativism - Such a nasty, nasty lil' thing. That's a judgement best left to an individual on his own behalf. There is a thing called *moral law*, if we always let the individual judge on their own behalf, instead of what is factually right, we'd be in anarchy - As seen by the turmoil and corruption that runs rampant through the immoral cesspool; the world - Particularly the west/western minded. And yes, we gay people are trying to start a family. So what. You're trying to place your morals on us. They don't match mine. Obviously not, you're a self-declared homosexual. And me living my way of life with my view of family is not effecting you in any way shape or form. Since I have no personal ties to you, nor know of anyone that I consider family/friends does either - Then yes, you are correct - To an extent. But that could be said of anything - Take your pick of a crime or immoral act, and you could say the same thing to me, and you would be correct - To an extent. Fifty years ago when your type of ilk were for the most part in the closet, your *people* had almost no sway on the society - The nuclear family stayed intact, you had no politicians with a homosexual agenda, etc. etc. - But things digressed, and here the west is, on a landslide into the abyss. I'm not coming into your home tell you how to live your life or raise your family, I expect the same from you. It's my pursuit of happiness. Deal with it. And quit trying to place your morals on someone else. Live your life with your morals and I'll live my life with mine. I'm not apathetic enough, sorry. And if you're so scared of "mentalities" seeping themselves into your family then build a moat and lock yourselves in the house. Society is full of different people. Quit being so freaked out over people who don't think like you. Go all amish eh? I don't think so, I enjoy things like electricity; I just do not enjoy immorality, which I suppose would make me almost like the amish, eh? Anyhow, I have no problem with different people, I have a problem with immoral people.
And you still didn't explain how gay marriage or civil unions is going to effect your family. It won't. It can't. So try again.
Was explained above.
How do you know they weren't gay friendly? How do you know what they did in their personal lives?
Uhh, right - I'm sure they were secretly homosexual and had some underground gay alliance to liberate their homosexual brethren!
I mean are you kidding me? You're going to base this off of, "They never openly condemned homosexuals. So that must mean they were gay friendly!"
They didn't need to, it was common sense morality to them - Or common law, whichever you prefer. It's like saying because they didn't openly condemn murder or some other crime - Which was part of the common law - They could have been gay friendly!
Unfounded presumptions in a debate look rather poorly...
And whether you like it or not, times change.
Back and forth, back and forth - We were on a tight reign of morality, now we're going back to becoming Babylon, Rome, Sodom; take your pick.
Society's change. Viewpoints change.
Viewpoints only gain or lose popularity.
That's why it's illegal for folks to take people like me and stone us.
It's illegal for others to take people like Charles Manson and stone him!
That's why the thought of somone like Hitler putting pink triangles on us the same way he labeled the jews doesn't sit well with people anymore. We're getting our message out to kind folks. We're just human beings who were born different.
Since when has homosexuality been a congenital defect?
And slowly but surely people are listening and believing us when we tell them this truth. I know that bothers you. But I'm not sorry. I'm tired of your beliefs and your ancient religions condemning us. We're creations of God just like you.
First you condemn the "ancient religions" for condemning you, but then you bring God into the argument?
Make up your mind, which way do you want it? With or without God? Or have you just made up your own version of God to suit your conscience?
And everyone may be created by God, but not everyone is of God.
And I'm proud of who I am and who I was made to love. And everyday more and more people around the world are coming onto my side. Because they are learning that we're just honest and kind people trying to live life just like they are. You're going to eventually have to deal with that. Hate me if you like, but I'm an American too.
Why would I hate you? And what's being American have to do with anything?
And I was promised the same rights as you were.
By whom?
I'll get them eventually. Just like slaves and women have.
Heh, I figured that cliche correlation would find itself somewhere in here.
Come on ... where is the love Aldaron? How can u actually defend that gay ppl are immoral and dont have the same rights as everybody else? and now there is even a research that u can read here http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-05-09-homosexual-brains_x.htm that proves as u can read that they are born that way, can you actually say that because they are born gay they dont have a right to make a family because you dont feel they have that right? I can assure you that american's like you WILL have to change mentality.... because your closemindness is IMMORAL.
Originally posted by Aldaron Originally posted by upallnight The only thing I can tell you here is that you are basing your whole argument on what's "natural" and "unnatural" or "moral" and immoral". That's very ambiguous at the least. Ambiguous? Heh...Yes, as of late, morals have been very *ambiguous* to the common-folk - or so they seem to show the lack of comprehension so as to think as such - Which is why I suppose most people have adopted the morals of no morals. What's natural for you may be unnatural for someone else. Ahh, relativism - Such a nasty, nasty lil' thing. That's a judgement best left to an individual on his own behalf. There is a thing called *moral law*, if we always let the individual judge on their own behalf, instead of what is factually right, we'd be in anarchy - As seen by the turmoil and corruption that runs rampant through the immoral cesspool; the world - Particularly the west/western minded. And yes, we gay people are trying to start a family. So what. You're trying to place your morals on us. They don't match mine. Obviously not, you're a self-declared homosexual. And me living my way of life with my view of family is not effecting you in any way shape or form. Since I have no personal ties to you, nor know of anyone that I consider family/friends does either - Then yes, you are correct - To an extent. But that could be said of anything - Take your pick of a crime or immoral act, and you could say the same thing to me, and you would be correct - To an extent. Fifty years ago when your type of ilk were for the most part in the closet, your *people* had almost no sway on the society - The nuclear family stayed intact, you had no politicians with a homosexual agenda, etc. etc. - But things digressed, and here the west is, on a landslide into the abyss. I'm not coming into your home tell you how to live your life or raise your family, I expect the same from you. It's my pursuit of happiness. Deal with it. And quit trying to place your morals on someone else. Live your life with your morals and I'll live my life with mine. I'm not apathetic enough, sorry. And if you're so scared of "mentalities" seeping themselves into your family then build a moat and lock yourselves in the house. Society is full of different people. Quit being so freaked out over people who don't think like you. Go all amish eh? I don't think so, I enjoy things like electricity; I just do not enjoy immorality, which I suppose would make me almost like the amish, eh? Anyhow, I have no problem with different people, I have a problem with immoral people.
And you still didn't explain how gay marriage or civil unions is going to effect your family. It won't. It can't. So try again.
Was explained above.
How do you know they weren't gay friendly? How do you know what they did in their personal lives?
Uhh, right - I'm sure they were secretly homosexual and had some underground gay alliance to liberate their homosexual brethren!
I mean are you kidding me? You're going to base this off of, "They never openly condemned homosexuals. So that must mean they were gay friendly!"
They didn't need to, it was common sense morality to them - Or common law, whichever you prefer. It's like saying because they didn't openly condemn murder or some other crime - Which was part of the common law - They could have been gay friendly!
Unfounded presumptions in a debate look rather poorly...
And whether you like it or not, times change.
Back and forth, back and forth - We were on a tight reign of morality, now we're going back to becoming Babylon, Rome, Sodom; take your pick.
Society's change. Viewpoints change.
Viewpoints only gain or lose popularity.
That's why it's illegal for folks to take people like me and stone us.
It's illegal for others to take people like Charles Manson and stone him!
That's why the thought of somone like Hitler putting pink triangles on us the same way he labeled the jews doesn't sit well with people anymore. We're getting our message out to kind folks. We're just human beings who were born different.
Since when has homosexuality been a congenital defect?
And slowly but surely people are listening and believing us when we tell them this truth. I know that bothers you. But I'm not sorry. I'm tired of your beliefs and your ancient religions condemning us. We're creations of God just like you.
First you condemn the "ancient religions" for condemning you, but then you bring God into the argument?
Make up your mind, which way do you want it? With or without God? Or have you just made up your own version of God to suit your conscience?
And everyone may be created by God, but not everyone is of God.
And I'm proud of who I am and who I was made to love. And everyday more and more people around the world are coming onto my side. Because they are learning that we're just honest and kind people trying to live life just like they are. You're going to eventually have to deal with that. Hate me if you like, but I'm an American too.
Why would I hate you? And what's being American have to do with anything?
And I was promised the same rights as you were.
By whom?
I'll get them eventually. Just like slaves and women have.
Heh, I figured that cliche correlation would find itself somewhere in here.
Are the big bad homosexuals coming to get you Aldaron? What happened, did you get turned down for a Queer Eye episode and now you're bitter you didn't get that free makeover?
Originally posted by Aldaron Originally posted by upallnight The only thing I can tell you here is that you are basing your whole argument on what's "natural" and "unnatural" or "moral" and immoral". That's very ambiguous at the least. Ambiguous? Heh...Yes, as of late, morals have been very *ambiguous* to the common-folk - or so they seem to show the lack of comprehension so as to think as such - Which is why I suppose most people have adopted the morals of no morals. What's natural for you may be unnatural for someone else. Ahh, relativism - Such a nasty, nasty lil' thing. That's a judgement best left to an individual on his own behalf. There is a thing called *moral law*, if we always let the individual judge on their own behalf, instead of what is factually right, we'd be in anarchy - As seen by the turmoil and corruption that runs rampant through the immoral cesspool; the world - Particularly the west/western minded. And yes, we gay people are trying to start a family. So what. You're trying to place your morals on us. They don't match mine. Obviously not, you're a self-declared homosexual. And me living my way of life with my view of family is not effecting you in any way shape or form. Since I have no personal ties to you, nor know of anyone that I consider family/friends does either - Then yes, you are correct - To an extent. But that could be said of anything - Take your pick of a crime or immoral act, and you could say the same thing to me, and you would be correct - To an extent. Fifty years ago when your type of ilk were for the most part in the closet, your *people* had almost no sway on the society - The nuclear family stayed intact, you had no politicians with a homosexual agenda, etc. etc. - But things digressed, and here the west is, on a landslide into the abyss. I'm not coming into your home tell you how to live your life or raise your family, I expect the same from you. It's my pursuit of happiness. Deal with it. And quit trying to place your morals on someone else. Live your life with your morals and I'll live my life with mine. I'm not apathetic enough, sorry. And if you're so scared of "mentalities" seeping themselves into your family then build a moat and lock yourselves in the house. Society is full of different people. Quit being so freaked out over people who don't think like you. Go all amish eh? I don't think so, I enjoy things like electricity; I just do not enjoy immorality, which I suppose would make me almost like the amish, eh? Anyhow, I have no problem with different people, I have a problem with immoral people.
And you still didn't explain how gay marriage or civil unions is going to effect your family. It won't. It can't. So try again.
Was explained above.
How do you know they weren't gay friendly? How do you know what they did in their personal lives?
Uhh, right - I'm sure they were secretly homosexual and had some underground gay alliance to liberate their homosexual brethren!
I mean are you kidding me? You're going to base this off of, "They never openly condemned homosexuals. So that must mean they were gay friendly!"
They didn't need to, it was common sense morality to them - Or common law, whichever you prefer. It's like saying because they didn't openly condemn murder or some other crime - Which was part of the common law - They could have been gay friendly!
Unfounded presumptions in a debate look rather poorly...
And whether you like it or not, times change.
Back and forth, back and forth - We were on a tight reign of morality, now we're going back to becoming Babylon, Rome, Sodom; take your pick.
Society's change. Viewpoints change.
Viewpoints only gain or lose popularity.
That's why it's illegal for folks to take people like me and stone us.
It's illegal for others to take people like Charles Manson and stone him!
That's why the thought of somone like Hitler putting pink triangles on us the same way he labeled the jews doesn't sit well with people anymore. We're getting our message out to kind folks. We're just human beings who were born different.
Since when has homosexuality been a congenital defect?
And slowly but surely people are listening and believing us when we tell them this truth. I know that bothers you. But I'm not sorry. I'm tired of your beliefs and your ancient religions condemning us. We're creations of God just like you.
First you condemn the "ancient religions" for condemning you, but then you bring God into the argument?
Make up your mind, which way do you want it? With or without God? Or have you just made up your own version of God to suit your conscience?
And everyone may be created by God, but not everyone is of God.
And I'm proud of who I am and who I was made to love. And everyday more and more people around the world are coming onto my side. Because they are learning that we're just honest and kind people trying to live life just like they are. You're going to eventually have to deal with that. Hate me if you like, but I'm an American too.
Why would I hate you? And what's being American have to do with anything?
And I was promised the same rights as you were.
By whom?
I'll get them eventually. Just like slaves and women have.
Heh, I figured that cliche correlation would find itself somewhere in here.
Oh yeah, Aldaron. I'm so anti-family.
That's why my best friend is straight and just asked me to be best-man at his wedding to the girl that I introduced him to. Both of them said that I made them the happiest two people on the planet.
If I were anti-family would I be as flattered and as excited for them as I am right now!!!
I feel like the coolest guy on Earth for what I did. I'm totally stoked.
You know what america may have a few flaws but doesn't every country and everyone one? no one is perfect but i think america is the best country in the whole universe because that is where msot of us if from and if you do not like it you can just get out you hippies! you all make me sick, america is your home how can you talk about it like that I bet some of your family members have faught in a war they risked their lives for our united states of america and you want to talk about it! I hope you feel terrible!
I dont think there is a best place to live, I think that there is better places to live then most other places. There are a lot of things to look at when taking that into account. But since this is a thread on America, the question is if Amercia is the best country to live in and has it ever been, well there is the patriot answer of YES it is of course how dare you think otherwise moron. But then there is the answer based on reality NO not at all bar far not even close.
Originally posted by OldKnight You know what america may have a few flaws but doesn't every country and everyone one? no one is perfect but i think america is the best country in the whole universe because that is where msot of us if from and if you do not like it you can just get out you hippies! you all make me sick, america is your home how can you talk about it like that I bet some of your family members have faught in a war they risked their lives for our united states of america and you want to talk about it! I hope you feel terrible!
First off I am not an American and second u dont know what u speak of, just listen to your words and how incorrect they are! Any person who is American and has had family members fight for freedom just like most other democratic society's had to do in WW1 and WW2 not just the Americans! You also dont understand that what previous generatrions sacrificed lives for was not to end up like we are today in a very dangerous spot with Americans losing all that credibility and what happens when real threat emerges? I doubt the people u spoke of who risked their lives are happy with the current direction of the worlds only hyper-power and soon China will probably take that status which is also very scary.
Originally posted by Slickinfinit I doubt the people u spoke of who risked their lives are happy with the current direction of the worlds only hyper-power and soon China will probably take that status which is also very scary.
if china attempts to take that status, the US will do something about it, long before canada does anything...
Originally posted by bas1889 Originally posted by Slickinfinit I doubt the people u spoke of who risked their lives are happy with the current direction of the worlds only hyper-power and soon China will probably take that status which is also very scary.
if china attempts to take that status, the US will do something about it, long before canada does anything...
What is the US going to do? Send even more jobs and even more information technology to overwhelm them? There is not much the US can realy do imo at this present time when the current American admin had caused so much debt and implemented such poor foreign policy. China is just sitting back and watching the Americans mess up left right and center and believe me I wish is wasnt so, I realy would like to see America live up to the image they claim so much to have.
Originally posted by bas1889 Originally posted by Slickinfinit I doubt the people u spoke of who risked their lives are happy with the current direction of the worlds only hyper-power and soon China will probably take that status which is also very scary.
if china attempts to take that status, the US will do something about it, long before canada does anything...
No we won't.
The world is headed right back to it's historical default position of China being the world leader. Their world leader status comes and goes, but through most of history China has been on top. And we're giving that power right back to them on the shopping floor of a Wal-Mart.
Originally posted by mandrak66 anyone seen the movie canadian bacon, i say we get a few reservists together and go for it,hehe. Canada by far has many issue the usa has heck we protect the majority of their borders. I have joint trained with canadian military and though fun to party with not sure would want to be in the bunker next to them. As far as the VA actually they are pretty good in most cases, had operation from them done in about a=10 days. Overall i would say the usa is number 1 and has been and will be in the future. Are we the best in everything no. Do we have problems sure we do, but if China does deside to show off its might who's going to be to stop them...Canada(probabaly not), France(hell they back sadam) sweden(un ah no) yeap the good o usa. oh and yes there are many country's that owe us great wealth, who you thing funded the rebuilding of europe after ww2. o and about Bush and current administration...maybe you should as a cpl Iraqi that live in Iraqi if their living conditions have improved.
lol, I am sure when WWIII starts
here is the bad guy list
1. the USA 2. the puppets of the USA 3. And so on
Just to think who else has military all over the world? Who else had invaded other countries left and right in the past 60 years?
Doesn't seem China have a single soldier outside of its border. Nor they are voting to start any war in UN. They always say "no" to any war plan in UN. And they are the only one went head to head with UN force and did not lose. Korean war in case you forgot. Yet they retreated all forces from North Korea soon after the war ended. Unlike the US keeps forces in every place, and prepare for the next strike.
On the other hand, the US always try to use War to solve every single problem which originally were just some made up excuses to begin with. Always have excuses before an invasion. Just like Germany, Itay, and Japan in WWII. Keep pushing others around, until everyone unite and gang up on the US one of these days.
Comments
Overall, I do love my country. However, I think it's better days may be past. Had this generation fought WW2...ugh, I shudder over that thought.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Every citizen is given thier right to freedom of speech. But, there is no right that requires you to listen. The KKK has not been flourishing at all thier numbers are but, a fraction of what they formally were, they're a minority now and are watched by the government especially ones with neo-nazi idealism.
The elections aren't rigged last I checked. If you don't know the process allow me to clear it up for you.
Popular vote is not the reason a president is elected into office. Electoral votes from each state is what instates the candidate as the new president. Before you start thinking it's unfair and rigged lets clear it up some more.
Each state is given an electoral vote for the amount of people counted in the states census, far as I know it's updated every year. So, even if you win the popular vote and it's doesn't mean you have won the electoral vote or states. If a state's electoral college representative votes against the majority popular vote supporting the presidential candidate, that representative will have some extensive explaining to do in their immediate future. And, if his principles don't meet up with his responsibilities that individual will most likely be taken out of office or, quickly replaced.
The human race is not perfect, Canada is actually now following in the footsteps of the U.S., if I recall your new Prime Minister is in actuallity a republican supporter? I guess, it was done this way to allow a few years of compatibility with us.
When I hear our national anthem playing, I stand in respect. When I hear God Bless America, I sit or, walk somewhere else.
Take a step back and look at what you're saying. You're arguing that your morals are in some way better or more justified than his. How about you just become a bit more accepting of other people, then you wouldn't come across as an elitist with a chip on his shoulder....
Or you can continue pushing your anti-homosexual agenda...it's up to you.
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You know asking that question is very much like asking a mother if she loves her children more than the other children.
I don't expect canadadians to "love" america as much as they "love" thier own country. And if you haven't actually LIVED in another country, what are you going to base that on?
America isn't very popular right now and personally as an American I'm pretty embarassed to live here. Bush can't be elected again so we can only hope that the next presidents platform will be to repair the relations and the image that Bush has brought on this country.
And thats all i'm gonna say...except that...
Liechtenstein is my favorite country and will soon DOMINATE THE WORLD.
Well I want to make a stand-alone comment. I read all of the posts and most I think they do not know what they are writeing and just reechoing stuff, what did not come out of their own mind.
Those sheets which I saw, say nothing, absolutly nothing at all. What it helps you that a country is better in freedom or economics if you cant speak their language? If you dont know their culture or their society? Do you think it would be better then because of what so called experts say?
I saw in the US a newspaper discriminating a judge because he sent a black to prison and a white got free. As most of you said I went to the court and wanted to have a look at the public records.
I got denied to see them as I showed as my ID my Greencard. Me not stupid jumped out and gave some money to a citizen to go in and have a look at them. Those "public record" were not available for him either. I am still waiting to see another newspaper bringing out news that the "bad" newsbaper is getting sued for bringing out wrong news.
I have a college degree from germany. Now at the beginning, after I got my workpermit, I got by many companys declined because they say, I do not even have a Highschool degree.
It was pure luck that I am accepted with my skills and knowledge in a company which values me. Pure luck. Of course this sounds unbelievable for many of you, but I tell the truth here. I wouldnt have expected those reactions I got as I still lived in germany. I thought capitalism is way higher in the US than patriotism. Any normal person would see, if this person is an asset, lets hire him/her for the correct wage. Maybe i picked the wrong state in the first place. (lucky it turned out good in the end tho)
In case Phonix reads this, I think you made the right choice if you never want to leave your country. Otherwise I tell you, your education will be most probably worth nothing except for yourself, because of "patriotism" which you will have in any other country.
The USA has more freedom if you are accepted in the society, way less freedom if you are not. But thats counts for every other country as well. The country were you been born in, knowing the rules and language and people, will offer you your most individual freedom, as long you are accepted. You would need luck otherwise and on luck is hard to count on.
I do not blame the whole US on what Bush did, but why I so often hear as first reaction about germany: Hitler and questions if Germany is still a Nazi country of citizen? Education in the USA is way to expensive for many people to afford. They will die stupid, not knowing how much they are missing out. Yet many are still friendly as long you talk to them alone.
Edit: and on the plant post by AlexAmore. I agree with you there.
Staying behind a car for 4 seconds will kill more brain cells than this
plant will ever kill and the reason why it is illleage is, that nobody can make money of it if you grow it yourself. Of course I play by the rules I accepted as I came into the country, but you can be sure that I will go to amsterdam as soon I visit Germany. (Amsterdam is not in germany, but pretty close to it, just for those people who doesnt know geographie or been bad in it)
Religion is really way to much in Texas at least....I know that, because I got asked in a grocery store if i want to join a certain church and that not only 1 time. I just hope it isnt like this in other states.
Edit: actually ValiumSummer said it way shorter than I did....
Edit: in case you have to quote me, quote what you are referring to. I doubt I am wrong in everything.
The USA has more freedom if you are accepted in the society, way less freedom if you are not.
That was one of my concerns when I was thinking about USA. One of the things that made me not go there. What do you mean you couldn't live in the US? What is so bad can you be more descriptive?
Well I think I wrote what I thought was bad. It's too
religious. I don't think I have to explain that one more. Politically
it's totally different than me and many of my values clash with the
overall american attitude. I think I would feel very well. There are
many things that appeal with USA. But in the end I decided it was best
not too go there. I felt the risk for me not being able to feel well in
your culture and your politics was to great, to justifie the rather big
expenses that education would give me.
Yeah i knew what you wrote but i was just wondering
more details. I think your steryotyping america a little too much, I
can and do clearly state my Religious views and im not persecuted. I
was just wondering what some values you have that are different about
american?
You can be right. Maybe I'm sterotyping it to much. I'm aware that it can be better than it seems. That there are alot of nice people in the USA. But I can only base my thoughts on what I see, hear over here, talking to people that have been there and the impressions I get by talking to americans.
Conservative/Religious: USA is more conservative and religious than many western countries. Some states more than others. I'm not to fond of religion itself. It puts a gap between people. It says that some people are less worth than others. Non believers etc. I believe that all people have equal rights and that they have the same value. Dark, Asian, Gay, it doesn't matter. I don't judge people based on that. Abortion law that might spread, alot of despise of gay people from the religious. There is alot that goes against my beliefs. And people like Aldaron show the things that trouble me. It's mostly here that I feel that my values clash with USA.
Politics: I don't think I have to say much here. I don't agree with the current direction american politics have taken. The arrogance, entnosentrismn (spelling?) and lack of will to try to understand different societies. It's like everything not like USA = bad. Not much more to say about foreign affairs. Regarding healthcare, social security, education I don't like what USA does there either. I could go on and on about it, but to make it short. I don't liike how it's based on your income and your status. I don't like how poor people get bad out of it.
At the current moment I couldn't live in the USA. When I get older it might change, I might dare to take the risk to see how it's to live there. But not atm.
America is the most free nation? Oh, really...
Seems in 6 years we went from 4th freest to 9th. Yeah, we're kicking some butt.
OH, and look who's right below us at number 10 for 2006. CANADA!!!
And this is from the Heritage Foundation. A conservative group!
The Washington, D.C. based Heritage Foundation's 2000 Index of Economic Freedom, compiled by famed Austrian economist Gerald P. O'Driscoll, along with Kim R. Holmes and Melanie Kirkpatrick, provides the following list of the top 15 "freest" places on Earth.
1. Hong Kong
2. Singapore
3. NEW ZEALAND
4. Bahrain
4. Luxembourg
4. USA
7. Ireland
8. Australia
8. Switzerland
8. UK
11. Canada
11. CHILE
11. El Salvador
11. Taiwan
15. Austria
15. Netherlands
First of your chart is showing ECONOMIC FREEDOM , im talking about the common rights as Americans.
Second all the countries ahead are probably some of the smallest and truly unimportant countries when it comes to world economy. None of those countries have any true problems. America has the largest diversity by far when it comes to almost everything. We have the best and the worst of all things.
An example of this is the mere fact that we have elementry level people like you here living in this country with no sense of knowledge and pride for what has been given to you. We also have the best such as Ronald Reagan who helped bring this nation to what could be considered it peak so far.
You can't even come close to calling yourself wise or all knowing by the mere fact that you are only talk. You people only talk about what is wrong and never act on it. It is better to have acted for something right and messed up then sit back and complain about what should have happen. Its really easy to say that ECONOMICLY we arent the freest when we are being compared to place like Bahrain or luxemburg.
If you have any solutions for this "problem" then please share it to me. Otherwise stay out of politics or actually even economy.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Age:
15
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
ALSO COULD YOU PLEASE STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
I was about to comment to you, but then I looked at your profile...
Then I went back and read what you wrote to me and had a nice little chuckle.
Oh how wise I was at 15. If only the real world wouldn't have gotten in the way.
NO it just proves that i know more then you at 15
Hmm............In my opinion in the world not have best country.Because you all have sin.And in the world all not perfect.
Life is misteryously!
this is the internet, you dont got to be 15 to get away with that.
You no whats funny, u guys havent even said anything that would show that your smarter then me, u keep talking about how im to young but if your so smart from experience then please tell me what you were about to argue about(which is probably nothing cuz all you people ever do is complain and talk about what u would do instead of doing it.
Come on ... where is the love Aldaron? How can u actually defend that gay ppl are immoral and dont have the same rights as everybody else? and now there is even a research that u can read here http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-05-09-homosexual-brains_x.htm that proves as u can read that they are born that way, can you actually say that because they are born gay they dont have a right to make a family because you dont feel they have that right? I can assure you that american's like you WILL have to change mentality.... because your closemindness is IMMORAL.
1. as a rule man is a fool, when its hot he wants it cool, when its cool he wants it hot, always wanting what is not
2. Just because something is considered a moral and a value, does not make it morraly right or of any value.
3. Vanity, evils favorite deadly sin.
4. Just because its pretty, soft, and cute does not mean its not capable of chewing your fuking face off in yer sleep.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Are the big bad homosexuals coming to get you Aldaron? What happened, did you get turned down for a Queer Eye episode and now you're bitter you didn't get that free makeover?
===============================
Oh yeah, Aldaron. I'm so anti-family.
That's why my best friend is straight and just asked me to be best-man at his wedding to the girl that I introduced him to. Both of them said that I made them the happiest two people on the planet.
If I were anti-family would I be as flattered and as excited for them as I am right now!!!
I feel like the coolest guy on Earth for what I did. I'm totally stoked.
--------------------------------------
I still like hookers.....
{(RIP)} SWG
What is the US going to do? Send even more jobs and even more information technology to overwhelm them? There is not much the US can realy do imo at this present time when the current American admin had caused so much debt and implemented such poor foreign policy. China is just sitting back and watching the Americans mess up left right and center and believe me I wish is wasnt so, I realy would like to see America live up to the image they claim so much to have.
{(RIP)} SWG
No we won't.
The world is headed right back to it's historical default position of China being the world leader. Their world leader status comes and goes, but through most of history China has been on top. And we're giving that power right back to them on the shopping floor of a Wal-Mart.
lol, I am sure when WWIII starts
here is the bad guy list
1. the USA
2. the puppets of the USA
3. And so on
Just to think who else has military all over the world? Who else had invaded other countries left and right in the past 60 years?
Doesn't seem China have a single soldier outside of its border. Nor they are voting to start any war in UN. They always say "no" to any war plan in UN. And they are the only one went head to head with UN force and did not lose. Korean war in case you forgot. Yet they retreated all forces from North Korea soon after the war ended. Unlike the US keeps forces in every place, and prepare for the next strike.
On the other hand, the US always try to use War to solve every single problem which originally were just some made up excuses to begin with. Always have excuses before an invasion. Just like Germany, Itay, and Japan in WWII. Keep pushing others around, until everyone unite and gang up on the US one of these days.