Lineage 2 - Impressive and Under Rated

nonjonron · May 2006

I've played alot of the others (I'll name em for the sake of it) EQ1, EQ2, WOW, and Eve.

Now, Eve certainly rocks - don't get me wrong.

But I'm astonished at the low reviews surrounding Lineage 2. This is a great game. I'm seeing some of the best parts of Diablo and Everquest combined into a well made and fun to play game. This one is good.

After quitting EQ1 about 2 years ago, I've been wandering around trying to find something to takes it place. I've played Eve and will certainly play again - Eve is good. But in terms of the whole fantasy thing - nothing could replace EQ1.

But with Lineage 2, I'm excited again. This game is impressive. Sure, there is grind. But you know, EQ1 was all about grind. That was an issue?

This game is good. I think its a sleeper. Perhaps because its made overseas and not well marketed in the U.S.?

squ1die · May 2006

First off - What is grinding?

Secondly - Does it have like crafting? Like In World Of Warcraft I remember when I played I was a hunter and from bear hides or something I could craft leather and make armor and all these sorts of things. I do miss that - its fairly watered down in Guild Wars in my opinion.

I've always wanted to play Everquest so this could be interesting - And I love Diablo - Guild Wars is very similar to Diablo in some ways.

The only thing that is holding me back from playing Lineage II is the monthly fee. If I wasnt away for such long periods of time so often - It wouldnt bother me. Is there any trials for this game at the moment. Looks interesting.

Thanks

Pantastic · May 2006

Originally posted by nonjonron
Sure, there is grind. But you know, EQ1 was all about grind. That was an issue?

Absolutely; much like Lineage2, I never played EQ because of how people who liked it described it, and part of that was the grind. And I know lots of other people who never had interest in EQ because of the grind. How is rerunning the same fight over and over for days on end with little variation and virtually no challenge supposed to be enjoyable to me? No excuses or dodges, explain to me how that's supposed to be at all fun, because I and many other people play games for enjoyment, not to prove we can grind.

Really, anytime you have to defend a really boring or otherwise bad part of a game by saying "hey, this other game had something similarly sucky" you should stop and think.

EDIT: For Squiddie, grinding pretty much means doing the same thing over and over for a long time. Mostly it's used to refer to fighting lots of the same no-challenge monster for experience or money, but can refer to other things (like grinding reputation in WOW or standings in EVE). I don't know what MMOs you played, but imagine taking your fighter out, you may get a group or may go solo. Find an area with the lowest-level mobs that give good xp and/or money (this will vary per game and per level) that you can take down with no trouble, then just start killing them, carefully pulling so you never fight more than one. Then repeat these non-challenging, virtually identiical fights for hours, days, or weeks on ends, maybe with variations like going to an area with a slightly higher level mob to grind on when you level up.

nonjonron · May 2006

When I hit the first dungeon I was quickly reminded of diablo. The music, even the way the halls are laid out.

Level and skill system combined. You level by killing things but you gains skill points as well. You buy skills with the skill points.

One player can kill another. None of the EQ carebear stuff there.

Health, mana and resting (meditation) will remind you of EQ1. Grouping is similar to EQ1.

Killing monsters happens with the action level similar to diablo. Wack, wack, bang!!

This game rocks and is exciting.

I was talking to another guy in-game, I asked him why this game was talked down so much. His answer - "this game is awesome. How many people posting in the U.S. have actually played it?".

He was playing an alt and had a level 65 main. Like others, he said it was a grind, especially at the higher levels. But he also said it was an awesome game.

I had a level 56 good Wizard on Sullon Zek in EQ1. Grind is part of the good and the bad. Enjoy.

nonjonron · May 2006

So in other words Pantastic, you are another guy who has never played the game but is slamming it.

If you haven't played a game, how can you possibly comment on it in any kind of reasonable manner?

Pantastic · May 2006

Because I've heard what people WHO LIKE THE GAME say about it. I've never slammed a cinderblock into my head, but I know that it's not fun to do. Have you ever put your hand into a blender and set it on pureee? Until you do, you're not allowed to comment on it!

That's really about the weakest defense of a game possible, especially when my only comment on the game was on the grinding that you said is in the game. Were you lying when you talked about the grind and compared it to original EQ? If not, has something changed in the time since you made those comments to make them not true now? Or was it actually sensible of me to comment on something that you yourself said was in the game.

EDIT: What's especially interesting is that looking back at my comments, I didn't actually say anything about Lineage 2 - I answered the question about whether the grind in EQ mattered, and commented on grinding in general. It's implicitly a criticism of L2 since there's a big grind in it, which you mentioned, but it's funny that you use 'you haven't played the game' to defend against someone talking about whether grinds matter and why.

nonjonron · May 2006

You've never played it. Enough said.

Pantastic · May 2006

"Sure, there is grind." Enough said.

Ranma13 · May 2006

If you're naive enough to believe that there's no grinding at all in other MMORPGs, you're beyond reproach.

Pantastic · May 2006

Wow, not only is the if part of the statement rather silly since I mentioned various sorts of grinding in various other MMORPGs in the thread, but the statement overall would be a complement if I did believe that there's no grinding at all in other MMORPGs. Beyond reproach" means "So good as to preclude any possibility of criticism." or "Blameless, faultless, as in Jean's conduct at school is beyond reproach."

Speedhaak · May 2006

If I might be so bold as to comment, I think Pantastic's comments are justified and well thought out. Relating the game mechanics and isolating the fact that the 'grind' as we know it is not an encouraged element we like to see in games. Sure you can reference it to Hardcore, your Hardcore and I'm not, or is it more of an endurance test? proving to people that you can against the odds beat the grind and come out on top.

Whats funny is I enjoy MMO's and Lineage 2, but I can still recognize that there is a element of the game that is there for one purpose only and its to keep people paying and playing at a minimal cost to the developers "creative side"

If you can sit there and honestly tell me you enjoy grinding that Hats off to all of you, becuase with alittle thought and effort developers could make much more interesting ways to progress in levels, Elder scrolls system of leveling up springs to mind. How about the more you use your skills the more adept you become at them.

Anyway I'm not one for debates, I just thought you should listen to what Pantastic is saying, becuase it's the truth.

Username! · May 2006

It is underrated but that is because everyone played it in beta.

People are too afraid to try it again. Who cares? They are all just a bunch of carebears anyway

.

Theely · May 2006

Originally posted by squ1die
First off - What is grinding?

That would be, what you spend your time doing in Lineage 2, Alex.

M1sf1t · May 2006

Originally posted by nonjonron
You've never played it. Enough said.

I played it and frankly putting my hand in a blinder and clicking on the puree button is more exciting and rewarding. Grinding on mobs and watching my mana slooooooooooooooooowly fill up is not my idea of fun. Frankly being a PvP FFA game I thought it would be tons of fun but the fact that you have to be stuck to the old ball and chain of mob grinding hampers L2 big time ! The fun parts are the PvP but to bad you have to jog to the moon and back to gain access to the high level PvP fun. Oh and I won't mention the tons of bots, adena sellers/buys, etc...

theanimedude · May 2006

Even Hello Kitty Online will blow L2 out of the water for fun.

L2 takes the fun out of the game, so us "carebears" don't like to play it.

What the hell is your definition of carebear anyways? is carebear all of a sudden teh definition of someone who actually likes content in their games? seriously people.

Desalus · May 2006

Originally posted by Username!
It is underrated but that is because everyone played it in beta.

People are too afraid to try it again. Who cares? They are all just a bunch of carebears anyway .

The game isn't really isn't worth playing even if you are really into pvp. It takes such a long time grinding mobs that most pvper's get insanely bored while they are try to reach that competitive level where they can participate in sieges and such. They end up leaving once they see how much of a timesink the game is. Sure there is a lot of great content at the higher levels, but most of us will not bother trying to get there.

Torak · May 2006

Originally posted by squ1die
First off - What is grinding?

Its the same activity that is is ALL MMO's. You know, kill mobs for XP. The people who never played L2 or havent played it in a few years like to point out that L2 has grind, just like all other games.

nonjonron, this site is full of people who do not like L2 for no real reason. They are about as rational about it as the SWG community people on that board when it come to L2 even though there are about a dozen games that completely suck when compared to L2, these guys will not admit it. (or just don't know because they never tried it themselves, they go off the word of someone who played 2 years ago or in beta)

MW2K · May 2006

I tried L2 for the trial period. Like AC2, it was a game I tried very hard to like. There's lot to like about it, for sure. The graphics and the animations and the world, etc, are very well done. but it felt hollow and empty.

I'm east coast Australia, so playing with a lot of other people has always been an issue in new games I try, as there's usually very few on during peak hour times for me.

One thing I didn't like was the daemon it installed, NTPP2 something or other. For the life of me, it would not uninstall correctly, no matter how much Googling I did for it, and event viewer was full of entries about it not starting correctly.

I'm tempted to give it another go, to be honest. There was something about it that did intrigue me, but I couldn't shake the hollowness it seems to have.

Aseenus · May 2006

yeah i totally agree! Linage 2 is a very nice game yet it gets very bad revriews.. such a shame!

WARCRYtm · May 2006

Lineage2 is the best MMO you can find.Best grafics and stuning sound.

Population is growing it got +20k new players in the last 4 mounts in US/EU servers,a game with 3 years.You have 9 US/EU servers 6 of them are allweys full,and 3 medium all the day.Rumours say NCsoft is geting us 2 new servers with the next expantion.Lineage2 is the 3rd game with more subs next to WoW and lineage.

With so many subs it cant be a bad game.

Lineage2 has changed alot,it has now 4chronicles (4 free expantions,with the same size of the SO$ expantions) the 5ft is on the way.

You have less grind today than you had at prelude (chroncle 0) they got it easy,and will get beter in C5.If you dont belive me,just see wath they pretend to emplement.

About bots,you have them in other games to like WoW,and buffbots on DAOC were mityc never baned ONE and they know about their existence.NCsoft is allweys baning them,2 mounths ago i saw 2 guilds geting baned,you have fewer bots now.

If wou want to say something about this game try it now,and dont try it at private servers,they dont have all the content,guild politics,castle sieges,100+ people dragon raids,pvp contests betwin servers...

Lineage2 at relise was a medium game.Today is the BEST

WARCRYtm · May 2006

Is sad to see people bashing a game they dont know

Knightblast · May 2006

I think the reason why it isn't popular is that US/Euro gamers prefer other game designs (ie, quest-based), where the mob grinding is "packaged" in the form of narrative quests that give a storyline. WoW is probably the best example of this, but EQ2 and a host of others are evidence of the popularity of quest-based gameplay for fantasy MMORPGs among US/Euro gamers.

Lineage 2 is an unapologetic grind. You grind and you grind and you grind. There are quests, but there aren't very many of them relative to the level system, and most of the character advancement is done by grinding mobs. Some people like this, but I think many gamers in US/Euro do not care for that kind of gameplay, and this has limited the popularity of the game. I actually don't mind Lineage 2, because it feels like a very open world to me, I like the idea of open PvP and the game is beautiful ... but the grind is extremely steep to get to the point where you can meaningfully participate in the core of the PvP content such as castle sieges and the like.

nomadian · May 2006

hmm may have to try it though the poster above who says its great but is playing EQ2, why?

WARCRYtm · May 2006

Because he dosent play at a long time,Lineage2 got quests on C4,i have to admit WoW quests are beter but Lineage2 have them.

Gameloading · May 2006

Many people don´t understand Lineage 2. yes, Lineage 2 is a repetive grind.but if your truly stupid enough to only grind in the game and fully ignore the player driven politics,the player driven economy and clans wars. then you don´t deserve to play this game. there has never been an mmo created that doesn´t require a grind. WoW and EQ2 hide in quests. Lineage 2 doesn't bother to hide it. YOU pick where you level your character, not a quest. thats the only diffrence with L2 and WoW/eq game style. the time period between typinng "ding" is longer and you don't have to return to an npc who will tell you how totally awesome you are for killing 20 orcs.

Pantastic · May 2006

Originally posted by Gameloading
Many people don´t understand Lineage 2. yes, Lineage 2 is a repetive grind.but if your truly stupid enough to only grind in the game and fully ignore the player driven politics,the player driven economy and clans wars. then you don´t deserve to play this game. there has never been an mmo created that doesn´t require a grind.

Originally posted by Novaseeker
Lineage 2 is an unapologetic grind. You grind and you grind and you grind... but the grind is extremely steep to get to the point where you can meaningfully participate in the core of the PvP content such as castle sieges and the like.

This explains perfectly why Lineage 2 gets low ratings; people who like the game describe it as a repetitive, unapologetic grind. How many hours would I need to spend grinding to participate in the player driven politcs and clan wars to any significant extent? You're talking days, weeks, and months of going in and repeating pointless no-challenge kills on NPC mobs that always do the same thing. Why on earth would I want to do that? I get paid money to do a less boring job out in the real world.

It's not just a matter of 'put in quests so that you have someone telling you to do the grind', it's about having some degree of story to what you're doing, some variety and interesting challenges (I rarely did a straight grind in WOW, doing quests I was supposed to need a group or 5 more levels for was always more fun), and little enough repetition needed that it doesn't get boring.

Oh well, I haven't played the game or slammed a brick into my head, I guess there's no way for me to know that "You grind and you grind and you grind" would bore me to tears, and I certainly couldn't know whether its a factor in anyone's decision to play the game.

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Lineage 2 - Impressive and Under Rated

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Lineage 2 - Impressive and Under Rated

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