Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
As Jaguartron said, Homecoming has a lot more users than Champions or DC. "Commercially viable" is a matter of opinion, I guess, but it's worth mentioning that Homecoming's monthly donation quota is always filled immediately. The only reason it's not raking in a huge profit is because it hasn't legally been allowed to.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the bits of COH where Emmert's fingerprints are most visible are some of the worst aspects of the game, especially in terms of lore.
I hope this opens the door for more canceled games getting some official emulator licensing like SWG and Marvel Heroes. I see no where they mentioned what it cost them.
City of Heroes isn't a big IP in itself, but Star Wars and Marvel sure are. I can't see the latter giving out a free license.
It's not just that. The license for SWG has expired long ago and current Daybreak doesn't have the SW license anymore. So even if they wanted to, they simply cannot legalize an agreement with SWGEMU and SWG Legends, as then Disney will want to have a word.
It's the same with Marvel Heroes. The company no longer exists, so any indie devs wanting to emulate Marvel Heroes will have to go straight to Disney and they will never allow it, since Marvel Heroes is forever stained due what happened and let to the shutdown of Marvel Heroes.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
As far as I know Champions Online has a licensee via the Champions RPG from Hero Games. But yes, no doubt they have to pay a license for that. For me CoH was the best, then Champions then DCUO. But they were all good, no two ways about that.
I expect the Champions license cheaper than the DC one, but yes they likely have to pay something.
Each has their strengths, with different characters being possible on CoH and CO or at least more thematically apt, and DCUO providing a quite different style of play from either of the other two.
If I could only play one CoH would come out on top, but the other two have more merit than given credit for.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
As Jaguartron said, Homecoming has a lot more users than Champions or DC. "Commercially viable" is a matter of opinion, I guess, but it's worth mentioning that Homecoming's monthly donation quota is always filled immediately. The only reason it's not raking in a huge profit is because it hasn't legally been allowed to.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the bits of COH where Emmert's fingerprints are most visible are some of the worst aspects of the game, especially in terms of lore.
It is more a matter of the companies profit expectations for the game. CoH didn't meet that threshold and was closed down. CO and DCUO both apparently did as they were not.
CoH didn't make a huge profit when it was commercially available. There is no reason to believe it would do so now. It is successful only because the server cost need be covered rather than the expenses that would normally come along with.
After hearing about this, I downloaded the game tonight. I'm glad people enjoy it and this news means it won't be going away anytime soon, but I just couldn't get into it. It's old and clunky. LOTRO came out around the same time and I don't get same feeling with that game even though it lacks a lot of modern features.
CoH came out 2 months prior to WoW's release(Nov '04), and LotRO came out in 2007.
There's not much of a difference in the dates. Three years is not that long. Most people would put CoH and LOTRO in same class as "old school" since they are part of the same generation of MMO's.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I didn't enjoy the controls in DCUO and Champions never excited me the way City of Heroes and Villians did. So to me it is a superior game in which I have several pages of alts in Homecoming. Fantastic combinations of powers. My favourite is the Mastermind. However I have tried every archetype and a multitude of combinations but I certainly haven't exhausted the permutations.
Grouping as always is a delicious chaos that works out as long as people know their powers well.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
As Jaguartron said, Homecoming has a lot more users than Champions or DC. "Commercially viable" is a matter of opinion, I guess, but it's worth mentioning that Homecoming's monthly donation quota is always filled immediately. The only reason it's not raking in a huge profit is because it hasn't legally been allowed to.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the bits of COH where Emmert's fingerprints are most visible are some of the worst aspects of the game, especially in terms of lore.
It is more a matter of the companies profit expectations for the game. CoH didn't meet that threshold and was closed down. CO and DCUO both apparently did as they were not.
CoH didn't make a huge profit when it was commercially available. There is no reason to believe it would do so now. It is successful only because the server cost need be covered rather than the expenses that would normally come along with.
Pretty sure that profit had very little to do with why NCSoft pulled the plug on CoH. And it was profitable, just not in that blockbuster manner that companies thought was de rigueur back then.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I didn't enjoy the controls in DCUO and Champions never excited me the way City of Heroes and Villians did. So to me it is a superior game in which I have several pages of alts in Homecoming. Fantastic combinations of powers. My favourite is the Mastermind. However I have tried every archetype and a multitude of combinations but I certainly haven't exhausted the permutations.
Grouping as always is a delicious chaos that works out as long as people know their powers well.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
I understand NCSoft didn't feel it so. If they felt it worth continuing they would have.
Where are you getting your population figures from for CO and DCUO? Surely you're not going by Steam alone as both games are available on other platforms.
Compared to CoH, CO and DCUO both did great. They do however have the advantage of actually being commercially available so that gives them a competitive edge.
Ever since the announcement, the Homecoming servers are swamped. The server I usually play on now shows a heavy load and I've been DC'd several times. It looks like a lot of people were waiting for an official server and didn't want to play on a pirate server.
Even so, the total number of players has to be in the thousands, perhaps 20,000, and that isn't enough to support a whole team commercially. It works great for a small team of volunteers though.
NCSoft probably figured that there wasn't enough money to worry about, and it is good PR for them to allow the servers to run.
Ever since the announcement, the Homecoming servers are swamped. The server I usually play on now shows a heavy load and I've been DC'd several times. It looks like a lot of people were waiting for an official server and didn't want to play on a pirate server.
Even so, the total number of players has to be in the thousands, perhaps 20,000, and that isn't enough to support a whole team commercially. It works great for a small team of volunteers though.
NCSoft probably figured that there wasn't enough money to worry about, and it is good PR for them to allow the servers to run.
A more likely scenario is NCSoft has no immediate or even long term plans for the franchise but these private servers help keep it alive in the public eye in case they ever do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
I understand NCSoft didn't feel it so. If they felt it worth continuing they would have.
Where are you getting your population figures from for CO and DCUO? Surely you're not going by Steam alone as both games are available on other platforms.
Compared to CoH, CO and DCUO both did great. They do however have the advantage of actually being commercially available so that gives them a competitive edge.
It was about culture clash between the NCSoft brass and the CoH heads. CoH wasn't making enough money to paper over the troubles.
Also heard that Tabula Rasa was visited by the same cultural issues.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Good for them! I think it's a shame that other companies don't do this. (NOTE: I understand, copyrights, and special secret stuff they might have). However, if you know you're never gonna use that game again, why not let people enjoy it 'officially' It costs them nothing that I'm aware of. If anything, give the license and say that if they ever do play to remake or create a sequel, they reserve the right to take it back.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
I understand NCSoft didn't feel it so. If they felt it worth continuing they would have.
I'm guessing you weren't around or weren't paying attention to the story back then. It had nothing to do with profitablility. Nothing whatsoever. That's why so many people were (and still are) so pissed off about the shutdown. It was a petty, spiteful decision that didn't even make good business sense.
In hindsight people now think the game was good, at the time people really shredded it because of the graphics and pay to play. It got pretty empty if I remember. Knowing what we know now about the direction of the industry as a whole maybe it would do ok, I don't know.
Meanwhile, we have many games that adapted the same style graphics or gameplay. Remember when folks were shitting on Telegraphs, and now we see them even in World of Warcraft.
Incidentally I would like to add its hilarious that Jack Emmert hated City of Heroes and stuck his nose in two other Superhero MMOs to make "his vision" in DCUO and Champions Online and those two games combined is about a 5th of the playerbase of Homecoming.
You mean the two superhero MMORPGs that never shut down and still remain commercially viable despite one having to cover a DC licence fee?
Yeah, CoH sure showed them...
Anyway, this seems good news for Homecoming and I'm all for that.
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
I understand NCSoft didn't feel it so. If they felt it worth continuing they would have.
I'm guessing you weren't around or weren't paying attention to the story back then. It had nothing to do with profitablility. Nothing whatsoever. That's why so many people were (and still are) so pissed off about the shutdown. It was a petty, spiteful decision that didn't even make good business sense.
You are correct though Im not sure spiteful is the right term, if you cant trust the people you are giving money to then you wont want to stay in business with them. As I understand it from vague memories they were diverting funds to other projects they shouldnt have done but I could be wrong.
It's the same with Marvel Heroes. The company no longer exists, so any indie devs wanting to emulate Marvel Heroes will have to go straight to Disney and they will never allow it, since Marvel Heroes is forever stained due what happened and let to the shutdown of Marvel Heroes.
Emulating Marvel Heroes doesn't require any contact with Disney, as long as they host in a country that doesn't care about U.S. IP laws.
City of Heroes isn't emulated, it uses the original source code that the devs gave them after it was shut down.
Reverse engineering Marvel Heroes server side code is completely different and will take soo long.
Anyway, CoH being official will certainly get them a LOT more players.
I remember NcSoft was going to publish Champion's Online, then something happened and Cryptic self published with Atari. Then Ncsoft decided to close out CoH/CoV.
They did the same thing with Tabula Rasa, they didn't want to pay for the space trip for Lord British and they closed Tabula Rasa. That was kind of the point were NcSoft popularity began to fade out.
I'm afraid that's not even vaguely close.
Korean and American cultural expectations tripped things up, though I'd say the American side was fairly clueless, and paid the price.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Comments
As Jaguartron said, Homecoming has a lot more users than Champions or DC. "Commercially viable" is a matter of opinion, I guess, but it's worth mentioning that Homecoming's monthly donation quota is always filled immediately. The only reason it's not raking in a huge profit is because it hasn't legally been allowed to.
In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the bits of COH where Emmert's fingerprints are most visible are some of the worst aspects of the game, especially in terms of lore.
It's not just that. The license for SWG has expired long ago and current Daybreak doesn't have the SW license anymore. So even if they wanted to, they simply cannot legalize an agreement with SWGEMU and SWG Legends, as then Disney will want to have a word.
It's the same with Marvel Heroes. The company no longer exists, so any indie devs wanting to emulate Marvel Heroes will have to go straight to Disney and they will never allow it, since Marvel Heroes is forever stained due what happened and let to the shutdown of Marvel Heroes.
I expect the Champions license cheaper than the DC one, but yes they likely have to pay something.
Each has their strengths, with different characters being possible on CoH and CO or at least more thematically apt, and DCUO providing a quite different style of play from either of the other two.
If I could only play one CoH would come out on top, but the other two have more merit than given credit for.
It is more a matter of the companies profit expectations for the game. CoH didn't meet that threshold and was closed down. CO and DCUO both apparently did as they were not.
CoH didn't make a huge profit when it was commercially available. There is no reason to believe it would do so now. It is successful only because the server cost need be covered rather than the expenses that would normally come along with.
There's not much of a difference in the dates. Three years is not that long. Most people would put CoH and LOTRO in same class as "old school" since they are part of the same generation of MMO's.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Grouping as always is a delicious chaos that works out as long as people know their powers well.
Pretty sure that profit had very little to do with why NCSoft pulled the plug on CoH. And it was profitable, just not in that blockbuster manner that companies thought was de rigueur back then.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
It doesn’t hurt them and a good PR
You understand of course that COH was still commercially viable when it was shut down right?
Both combined are still a meager 20% of Homecomings population and thats not even accounting for the other rogue servers.
So yeah, great work CO and DCUO....... got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want for sure.....
Where are you getting your population figures from for CO and DCUO? Surely you're not going by Steam alone as both games are available on other platforms.
Compared to CoH, CO and DCUO both did great. They do however have the advantage of actually being commercially available so that gives them a competitive edge.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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Meanwhile, we have many games that adapted the same style graphics or gameplay. Remember when folks were shitting on Telegraphs, and now we see them even in World of Warcraft.
You are correct though Im not sure spiteful is the right term, if you cant trust the people you are giving money to then you wont want to stay in business with them. As I understand it from vague memories they were diverting funds to other projects they shouldnt have done but I could be wrong.
City of Heroes isn't emulated, it uses the original source code that the devs gave them after it was shut down.
Reverse engineering Marvel Heroes server side code is completely different and will take soo long.
Anyway, CoH being official will certainly get them a LOT more players.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.