I think people approach games like everything else we do in real life. Too many things vye for our time these days. There's just not enough hours in the day. So people tend to maximize their time online. That is why cantina buffs may be difficult to push in current designs. Most people find a way to cheat or use alt accounts when these mechanics are introduced.
It's more about whether the activity is engaging rather than the return. Some players would rather "do" something instead of sit in place and socialize. I do not think it has to do with solo vs group content either, they might just prefer to do some other group content, like raiding.
I have no experience with either Lotro or SWG though, so it's hard for me to assess those elements with certainty. It does sound like something I would find boring - and I am not a solo or social-averse player either - but I might appreciate the immersion factor if I experienced it.
Well my idea is if you stick the guys who want to do something solo to pick up some "costume points" or "housing points" or something on one side of the inn while on the other the guys who are /sit at a table, both are listening to the buffing music and maybe there will be some cross over. As to being engaging, some were more than others the drinking ones were funny.
But sure this won't be a perfect solution for players who just want to raid, level or PvP, but it may keep the "clothes horse" and "interior designers" happy.
(1) Totally agree. Also, those little things need to feed into other styles of gameplay to earn their keep (Mr Koster's "every inconvenience in your design is potentially someone’s game."), like with consumables feeding into crafters' gameplay etc. That's why I wonder about some of those older mechanics like cantina buffs, if the tradeoff (socialization/immersion vs downtime) is worth it and if the design could be improved.
(2) True, some games do include loops for different play styles, and that's my preference too. Even group-oriented players need to have something solo to do, while their group is away or as gameplay filler between group activities. At the same time, they do not have to, you can also have MMOs that specialize in a particular style (Foxhole comes to mind).
Many players are not going to want a downtime for any reason, would maintaining a buff be enough? If it wasn't they might have to put something more in. Thinking back to the sort of festival games that Lotro had, maybe having that on hand to do in the "inn" would make "strictly solo" players happy with the "downtime".
It's more about whether the activity is engaging rather than the return. Some players would rather "do" something instead of sit in place and socialize. I do not think it has to do with solo vs group content either, they might just prefer to do some other group content, like raiding.
I have no experience with either Lotro or SWG though, so it's hard for me to assess those elements with certainty. It does sound like something I would find boring - and I am not a solo or social-averse player either - but I might appreciate the immersion factor if I experienced it.
I still play SWGEmu, currently updating the stock in my shop. Took me four months to sell off my previous stock of armor as the server isn't that active, but at least it did sell!
Cantina buffing?
I usually prefer to be doing stuff, and these days im not the biggest socialiser. But cantinas in SWG still seem great! It takes 2 minutes to get buffed by the entertainers, and maybe 30 seconds to get buffed by a doctor, so it doesn't take too long.
What I like about it is that you get to see a whole bunch of people in the same place. It reminds you that tons of other people are playing. You see the same doctors and entertainers each visit, and get to know them a little bit (the cantina band in swgemu is online 24/7, super reliable, and at least one of them is at the keyboard at all times. even if the server crashes, they're back online within 5 mins, buffing again).
I also like the sense of preparation. I'm getting ready for a big adventure, and the buffing process is a part of that. It helps focus the mind and get you in the right mental state. A bit like an athelete pumping themselves up with music before a competition, we all listen to Star Wars music in the Mos Eisley cantina :-)
The downsides? The downtime isn't much.....in theory. 2 minutes to get buffed is nothing. But then you have travel times - it might take you 5 mins to reach the cantina, then another 5 minutes to get from the cantina to wherever you are going. If you died and need rebuffing, then you also need to remove your wounds, which might take 10mins sitting in a medical centre if nobody is around to remove your wounds for you.
The main thing I don't like tho is that doc buffs last 3 hrs, entertainer buffs last 2 hours, but i might only have 1 hour to play. So, if I dont have at least 2 hours to dedicate to fighting, then getting buffed doesn't seem worth it.
Additionally, the buff system has a negative effect on PvP. It means you can't really PvP unless ur part of a group with a dedicated doctor. Who the hell wants to spend 10 minutes getting rebuffed every time they die in PvP? You'll also be wanting the best janta buffs for PvP, so it isn't cheap either.
Also worth noting that the buff system in SWG is a bug. A developer put a decimal point in the wrong place, making buffs 10x better than they were supposed to be. This then skewed the whole combat system, but we loved it so much they never fixed it.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
I still play SWGEmu, currently updating the stock in my shop. Took me four months to sell off my previous stock of armor as the server isn't that active, but at least it did sell!
Cantina buffing?
I usually prefer to be doing stuff, and these days im not the biggest socialiser. But cantinas in SWG still seem great! It takes 2 minutes to get buffed by the entertainers, and maybe 30 seconds to get buffed by a doctor, so it doesn't take too long.
What I like about it is that you get to see a whole bunch of people in the same place. It reminds you that tons of other people are playing. You see the same doctors and entertainers each visit, and get to know them a little bit (the cantina band in swgemu is online 24/7, super reliable, and at least one of them is at the keyboard at all times. even if the server crashes, they're back online within 5 mins, buffing again).
I also like the sense of preparation. I'm getting ready for a big adventure, and the buffing process is a part of that. It helps focus the mind and get you in the right mental state. A bit like an athelete pumping themselves up with music before a competition, we all listen to Star Wars music in the Mos Eisley cantina :-)
The downsides? The downtime isn't much.....in theory. 2 minutes to get buffed is nothing. But then you have travel times - it might take you 5 mins to reach the cantina, then another 5 minutes to get from the cantina to wherever you are going. If you died and need rebuffing, then you also need to remove your wounds, which might take 10mins sitting in a medical centre if nobody is around to remove your wounds for you.
The main thing I don't like tho is that doc buffs last 3 hrs, entertainer buffs last 2 hours, but i might only have 1 hour to play. So, if I dont have at least 2 hours to dedicate to fighting, then getting buffed doesn't seem worth it.
Additionally, the buff system has a negative effect on PvP. It means you can't really PvP unless ur part of a group with a dedicated doctor. Who the hell wants to spend 10 minutes getting rebuffed every time they die in PvP? You'll also be wanting the best janta buffs for PvP, so it isn't cheap either.
Also worth noting that the buff system in SWG is a bug. A developer put a decimal point in the wrong place, making buffs 10x better than they were supposed to be. This then skewed the whole combat system, but we loved it so much they never fixed it.
Thanks for the write-up!
2 + 5 min does not sound like much indeed. I do like the fact that if you die you lose the buff. I would assume it encourages players to play well in order to not die and lose it. Deaths are too trivial in more modern MMOs.
Unfortunately, the combat mechanics in SWG are extremely shallow. You can't really play well, or badly. Mostly, you just write a macro - either single target or aoe - and then let it repeat over and over.
All the depth is in the meta-game. There's a million ways to build your character, then add in your crafted armour, food, shields etc. No two players are the same.
In the end, your build and gear is either good enough for the content, or it's not. You can't play really, really well to overcome a gear deficit. The main difference between good and bad players is how much food they bring, and how good they are at eating that food at the right time!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
I still play SWGEmu, currently updating the stock in my shop. Took me four months to sell off my previous stock of armor as the server isn't that active, but at least it did sell!
Cantina buffing?
I usually prefer to be doing stuff, and these days im not the biggest socialiser. But cantinas in SWG still seem great! It takes 2 minutes to get buffed by the entertainers, and maybe 30 seconds to get buffed by a doctor, so it doesn't take too long.
What I like about it is that you get to see a whole bunch of people in the same place. It reminds you that tons of other people are playing. You see the same doctors and entertainers each visit, and get to know them a little bit (the cantina band in swgemu is online 24/7, super reliable, and at least one of them is at the keyboard at all times. even if the server crashes, they're back online within 5 mins, buffing again).
I also like the sense of preparation. I'm getting ready for a big adventure, and the buffing process is a part of that. It helps focus the mind and get you in the right mental state. A bit like an athelete pumping themselves up with music before a competition, we all listen to Star Wars music in the Mos Eisley cantina :-)
The downsides? The downtime isn't much.....in theory. 2 minutes to get buffed is nothing. But then you have travel times - it might take you 5 mins to reach the cantina, then another 5 minutes to get from the cantina to wherever you are going. If you died and need rebuffing, then you also need to remove your wounds, which might take 10mins sitting in a medical centre if nobody is around to remove your wounds for you.
The main thing I don't like tho is that doc buffs last 3 hrs, entertainer buffs last 2 hours, but i might only have 1 hour to play. So, if I dont have at least 2 hours to dedicate to fighting, then getting buffed doesn't seem worth it.
Additionally, the buff system has a negative effect on PvP. It means you can't really PvP unless ur part of a group with a dedicated doctor. Who the hell wants to spend 10 minutes getting rebuffed every time they die in PvP? You'll also be wanting the best janta buffs for PvP, so it isn't cheap either.
Also worth noting that the buff system in SWG is a bug. A developer put a decimal point in the wrong place, making buffs 10x better than they were supposed to be. This then skewed the whole combat system, but we loved it so much they never fixed it.
Thanks for the write-up!
2 + 5 min does not sound like much indeed. I do like the fact that if you die you lose the buff. I would assume it encourages players to play well in order to not die and lose it. Deaths are too trivial in more modern MMOs.
Unfortunately, the combat mechanics in SWG are extremely shallow. You can't really play well, or badly. Mostly, you just write a macro - either single target or aoe - and then let it repeat over and over.
All the depth is in the meta-game. There's a million ways to build your character, then add in your crafted armour, food, shields etc. No two players are the same.
In the end, your build and gear is either good enough for the content, or it's not. You can't play really, really well to overcome a gear deficit. The main difference between good and bad players is how much food they bring, and how good they are at eating that food at the right time!
Stats as well, and yeah finding good chef, armorsmiths, weaponsmith ect. Some would do custom orders. I was able build my BH to take out a fully doc buffed BH just by popping one brandy.
Comments
But sure this won't be a perfect solution for players who just want to raid, level or PvP, but it may keep the "clothes horse" and "interior designers" happy.
Stats as well, and yeah finding good chef, armorsmiths, weaponsmith ect. Some would do custom orders. I was able build my BH to take out a fully doc buffed BH just by popping one brandy.