Losing by itself can feel like a penalty. The time you lose running back to where u were fighting can feel like a penalty.
For me, I don't want players to be discouraged from taking on challenging content. Because taking on a challenge, pushing yourself to get better, and then succeeding.....well, thats what provides players with a big buzz. That's what makes many of us feel good.
If we can encourage gamers to take on more challenging content, if the game can somehow tutor them to become better players, well, maybe the devs will start creating more challenging content, rather than the usual EZ mode crap we keep getting.
Yeah I agree, having death penalties prevents challenging content. The two are completely opposing eachother.
Pretty much if someone is asking for harsh death penalties then I know they want EZ mode combat. They are using the death penalties to substitute for challenge. There is no way to have harsh death penalties and very challenging game combat at the same time.
Ha! You probably shouldn’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Then again maybe someone like me does like ez mode? Are the souls games ez mode?
I think they got it perfect. You’ve cleared a portion of the area, you have a lot of “souls “ and could push on and risk it if you forget an ambush or accidentally fall off a ledge.
For me it’s the best combat I’ve experienced. So if that’s ez mode and dying AND running back to retrieve your souls BUT getting killed on the way and losing everything is harsh then “yup” I’m in.
I didn't think Elden Ring was particularly hard.
Losing your souls after dying didn't affect the challenge level of the combat at all, it was a simple punishment, that was usually pretty simple to reverse.
But the actual difficulty of the combat mechanics? I'll try to explain:
Lets say you want to master Elden Ring's combat. That means perfectly blocking / parrying / dodging every attack, and landing every attack of your own perfectly. You need perfect knowledge of every enemy, so you can recognise every attack and how you must react to it.
The reaction times required, the speed of input required, and the personal knowledge of each enemy required for mastery seemed no different than the vast majority of action-combat games. Certainly no different than something like Kingdoms of Amalur (chose that purely because it was the RPG I played prior to Elden Ring).
The main difference is how close to mastery you need to get to clear the content. In something like Kingdoms of Amalur, you perhaps only need to achieve maybe 30% mastery to complete the game. If you block 30% of the attacks, land 30% of your own attacks, you'll win. With something like Elden Ring, you probably need to hit maybe 80% mastery to clear the game.
I don't personally view that as being more difficult, just more punishing. But that is perhaps purely a personal point of view, as I am someone who generally aims for mastery of any given game I'm playing. To me, Elden Ring seemed the lesser game in terms of combat, because of its animation locking and the fact blocking rarely worked in boss fights. That restricted the available tactics you had, forcing you down a fairly static and boring mode of gameplay.
I’ll point out that there are a lot of people who feel Elden Ring was difficult, especially the later bosses.
Not sure why having to master your 80% mark isn’t more difficult. That seems to define it being difficult. You not liking it is inconsequential.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Losing your souls after dying didn't affect the challenge level of the combat at all, it was a simple punishment, that was usually pretty simple to reverse.
But the actual difficulty of the combat mechanics? I'll try to explain:
Lets say you want to master Elden Ring's combat. That means perfectly blocking / parrying / dodging every attack, and landing every attack of your own perfectly. You need perfect knowledge of every enemy, so you can recognise every attack and how you must react to it.
The reaction times required, the speed of input required, and the personal knowledge of each enemy required for mastery seemed no different than the vast majority of action-combat games. Certainly no different than something like Kingdoms of Amalur (chose that purely because it was the RPG I played prior to Elden Ring).
The main difference is how close to mastery you need to get to clear the content. In something like Kingdoms of Amalur, you perhaps only need to achieve maybe 30% mastery to complete the game. If you block 30% of the attacks, land 30% of your own attacks, you'll win. With something like Elden Ring, you probably need to hit maybe 80% mastery to clear the game.
I don't personally view that as being more difficult, just more punishing. But that is perhaps purely a personal point of view, as I am someone who generally aims for mastery of any given game I'm playing. To me, Elden Ring seemed the lesser game in terms of combat, because of its animation locking and the fact blocking rarely worked in boss fights. That restricted the available tactics you had, forcing you down a fairly static and boring mode of gameplay.
I’ll point out that there are a lot of people who feel Elden Ring was difficult, especially the later bosses.
Not sure why having to master your 80% mark isn’t more difficult. That seems to define it being difficult. You not liking it is inconsequential.
It's just a different way of looking at things, which is why is said it was probably personal.
I obvs don't have specific numbers, but if Elden Ring gives you 0.5s to react to an attack, and KoA gives you 0.5s to react to an attack, are they the same difficulty?
This is why I say Elden Ring is punishing rather than difficult.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
The discussion about Elden Ring is on another level of competency. I envy you all to be able to talk about it. I can never play it. Too hard. My reflexes are very bad. I didn't even consider the game as something I could even play.
Losing your souls after dying didn't affect the challenge level of the combat at all, it was a simple punishment, that was usually pretty simple to reverse.
But the actual difficulty of the combat mechanics? I'll try to explain:
Lets say you want to master Elden Ring's combat. That means perfectly blocking / parrying / dodging every attack, and landing every attack of your own perfectly. You need perfect knowledge of every enemy, so you can recognise every attack and how you must react to it.
The reaction times required, the speed of input required, and the personal knowledge of each enemy required for mastery seemed no different than the vast majority of action-combat games. Certainly no different than something like Kingdoms of Amalur (chose that purely because it was the RPG I played prior to Elden Ring).
The main difference is how close to mastery you need to get to clear the content. In something like Kingdoms of Amalur, you perhaps only need to achieve maybe 30% mastery to complete the game. If you block 30% of the attacks, land 30% of your own attacks, you'll win. With something like Elden Ring, you probably need to hit maybe 80% mastery to clear the game.
I don't personally view that as being more difficult, just more punishing. But that is perhaps purely a personal point of view, as I am someone who generally aims for mastery of any given game I'm playing. To me, Elden Ring seemed the lesser game in terms of combat, because of its animation locking and the fact blocking rarely worked in boss fights. That restricted the available tactics you had, forcing you down a fairly static and boring mode of gameplay.
I’ll point out that there are a lot of people who feel Elden Ring was difficult, especially the later bosses.
Not sure why having to master your 80% mark isn’t more difficult. That seems to define it being difficult. You not liking it is inconsequential.
It's just a different way of looking at things, which is why is said it was probably personal.
I obvs don't have specific numbers, but if Elden Ring gives you 0.5s to react to an attack, and KoA gives you 0.5s to react to an attack, are they the same difficulty?
This is why I say Elden Ring is punishing rather than difficult.
While there is a personal component such as opinion or physical ability (in this case) and as an example I didn’t grow up with a controller so it’s not second nature to me, you’re only mentioning part of the equation, the player.
That .5 second might be a shared reaction time ( for argument’s sake) and one might be able to connect in that time in dark souls, sekiro, Amalar, Skyrim, Elden Ring, etc, there is the other part of the fight, the enemy.
A boss fight in Skyrim is a lot easier than one in Elden Ring.
Even some regular mobs in dark souls will jump out of the way or back stab the player. And the souls games have mobs that tend to hit harder so if they connect you can end up in trouble fast.
Heck, in Sekiro it seems like the player has to develop their parry skills. I don’t recall that in Amalur!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I would actually want to point out that difficulty in combat is not only found in action combat but it could be found in as slow as turn based if it required strategic thinking and adapting your abilities to every possible scenario I believe that many gamers over 40yo would prefer this kind of difficult combat over the one with physical ability required
I don't know about "many" but I'm sure there are players who would prefer turn based. Heck there very well may be "many."
I do enjoy me some Darkest Dungeon after all!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Is Elden Ring actually a strategy-based thought-provoking game or a speed bag, flight or fight, FPS? Thinking about how to attack versus button mashing are 2 totally different things.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Is Elden Ring actually a strategy-based thought-provoking game or a speed bag, flight or fight, FPS? Thinking about how to attack versus button mashing are 2 totally different things.
I think it’s both. At least as much as players have to figure out a fight, see what works and what doesn’t in a fight.
It’s definitely not a strategy game. If that’s what you’re implying.
But we got here because of death penalties.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Permadeath: With this penalty, if a character dies, they are automatically retired or deleted from the server. However, permadeath is rarely used in MMOs due to its harshness and potential for frustration.
XP or Skill Loss: In old-school MMOs, dying resulted in losing experience points (XP) or skill progress. This penalty could be quite severe, especially in games where leveling up took a long time. EverQuest, for example, implemented this system.
XP Debt: A slight improvement over XP loss, this system “fines” players with XP debt that must be worked off before normal XP flow resumes. It’s less punishing than outright loss but still encourages caution.
Corpse Runs and Full-Body Looting: Some games require players to retrieve their corpse (and gear) from where they died. This can be time-consuming and adds a sense of risk.
Vehicle, Possession, or Structure Loss: Losing vehicles, mounts, or other possessions upon death is another form of penalty. It encourages players to protect their valuable assets.
Debuffs: Temporary debuffs (like lowered stats) after death can hinder gameplay until the penalty wears off. Allods Online uses this approach.
Repair and Run: In some games, equipment durability decreases upon death, requiring players to repair their gear. It’s a mild penalty but still encourages care.
Item Decay: Items might lose durability or quality over time, affecting their effectiveness. This penalty nudges players to play cautiously.
What other penalty could you possibly add to add depth and meaning to your death? Or are you trying to reinvent the death penalty?
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
I would actually want to point out that difficulty in combat is not only found in action combat but it could be found in as slow as turn based if it required strategic thinking and adapting your abilities to every possible scenario I believe that many gamers over 40yo would prefer this kind of difficult combat over the one with physical ability required
There are many types of difficulty, and in my opinion, they correlate to the "theory of multiple intelligences".
Action combat is where the outcome is determined by the physical actions of the player. Reaction times, speed of input, accuracy of input etc. Players with high body-kinisthetic intelligence will find these games easier. Difficulty can be increased by requiring quicker reaction times, speedy input, more accurate input.
Tactical combat is where the outcome is determined by the decisions the player makes during combat. This can be seen in some turn-based games like XCOM, but also some tab-target games. Given the logical nature of the combat mechanics, players with high logical-mathematical intelligence will find these games easier. Difficulty can be increased by giving more impactful decisions, more opportunity costs, harder-to-understand underlying combat equations.
(nb: both systems in RPGs tend to be undermined by the meta-game, namely gearing. if it's too difficult, you can make it easier by getting better gear, rather than being forced to become a better player).
But there are other types of systems that rely on other types of intelligence. Multiplayer games with a high degree of interdependence rely on interpersonal intelligence (understanding and predicting player behaviour, leadership etc.) Something like guitar hero seems like an action game, but it relies a lot on musical intelligence to understand the rhythms. Some puzzle games place their difficulty on visual-spatial intelligence.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Permadeath: With this penalty, if a character dies, they are automatically retired or deleted from the server. However, permadeath is rarely used in MMOs due to its harshness and potential for frustration.
XP or Skill Loss: In old-school MMOs, dying resulted in losing experience points (XP) or skill progress. This penalty could be quite severe, especially in games where leveling up took a long time. EverQuest, for example, implemented this system.
XP Debt: A slight improvement over XP loss, this system “fines” players with XP debt that must be worked off before normal XP flow resumes. It’s less punishing than outright loss but still encourages caution.
Corpse Runs and Full-Body Looting: Some games require players to retrieve their corpse (and gear) from where they died. This can be time-consuming and adds a sense of risk.
Vehicle, Possession, or Structure Loss: Losing vehicles, mounts, or other possessions upon death is another form of penalty. It encourages players to protect their valuable assets.
Debuffs: Temporary debuffs (like lowered stats) after death can hinder gameplay until the penalty wears off. Allods Online uses this approach.
Repair and Run: In some games, equipment durability decreases upon death, requiring players to repair their gear. It’s a mild penalty but still encourages care.
Item Decay: Items might lose durability or quality over time, affecting their effectiveness. This penalty nudges players to play cautiously.
What other penalty could you possibly add to add depth and meaning to your death? Or are you trying to reinvent the death penalty?
I think you should read the thread as you are just reacting to one sentence.
To the point, do you think death penalties add to combat/ the experience or should there be no death penalties?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I prefer real time with pause if you're going for tactical gameplay. Turn based has the down side of it always been turn based so you waste a bunch of time maneuvering to actually engage the enemy on the front side, and then on the back side when it's clear you've won you still have to go through every character's turn even though only maybe a couple in your party will do anything other than defend or maybe move to a position from where they can attack. With real time+pause you can just let your party go on AI mode and wait until you need to start taking more direct control of things. I find it pretty frustrating in a turn based game where you get ambushed by a large group of enemies and you have to sit there and watch the AI move 20 enemy units all while you can do nothing but sit back and watch. Complete snooze fest for me.
Ha! You probably shouldn’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Then again maybe someone like me does like ez mode? Are the souls games ez mode?
I think they got it perfect. You’ve cleared a portion of the area, you have a lot of “souls “ and could push on and risk it if you forget an ambush or accidentally fall off a ledge.
For me it’s the best combat I’ve experienced. So if that’s ez mode and dying AND running back to retrieve your souls BUT getting killed on the way and losing everything is harsh then “yup” I’m in.
No Dark Souls are not EZ mode but also the death penalty in that game is trivial.
In Dark Souls: No inventory loss No real time loss - portals everywhere No durability loss No gold sinks No item loss
You lose a little souls if you didnt use them to level up and you can get 100% of them back. You can ez use them up by just portaling back to base and leveling up.
If for some reason you die again and lose your souls on a boss, then you can die 1000 times in a row and still lose nothing, there is ZERO death penalty at that point, if dont have souls currently or spent them to level.
On top of all that, you can portal right back to where you died, so there is little time loss.
Which confirms my point, if a game is difficult and you die alot, then you cant have a harsh death penalty.
___ Lets look at it another way, Diablo if you play hardcore mode and beat the game, then you essentially killed 10k+ mobs or more without a single death. That is EZ mode for that player.
So my point stands, any player asking for harsh death penalties is asking the devs to make the game EZ mode in combat.
Losing by itself can feel like a penalty. The time you lose running back to where u were fighting can feel like a penalty.
For me, I don't want players to be discouraged from taking on challenging content. Because taking on a challenge, pushing yourself to get better, and then succeeding.....well, thats what provides players with a big buzz. That's what makes many of us feel good.
If we can encourage gamers to take on more challenging content, if the game can somehow tutor them to become better players, well, maybe the devs will start creating more challenging content, rather than the usual EZ mode crap we keep getting.
Yeah I agree, having death penalties prevents challenging content. The two are completely opposing eachother.
Pretty much if someone is asking for harsh death penalties then I know they want EZ mode combat. They are using the death penalties to substitute for challenge. There is no way to have harsh death penalties and very challenging game combat at the same time.
Ha! You probably shouldn’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Then again maybe someone like me does like ez mode? Are the souls games ez mode?
I think they got it perfect. You’ve cleared a portion of the area, you have a lot of “souls “ and could push on and risk it if you forget an ambush or accidentally fall off a ledge.
For me it’s the best combat I’ve experienced. So if that’s ez mode and dying AND running back to retrieve your souls BUT getting killed on the way and losing everything is harsh then “yup” I’m in.
Im too old for this sh!t :P
Lol, well’ even though I agree that “just failing “ has it’s own self punishment, having some sort stakes makes it more thrilling. It’s like watching a movie where you know no one will die versus watching a movie where there’s a possibility that someone can die.
Pro tip, rarely does anyone actually die in a movie.
Clearly Dark Souls difficulty is over rated.
There are several speedrun records for Dark Souls, including beating the game in under 30 minutes, beating all bosses in under two hours, and beating the game with all achievements in under two hours:
Under 30 minutes
A speedrun of Dark Souls was completed in under 30 minutes and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of Dark Souls was also completed in 30 minutes and is available on YouTube.
All bosses in under two hours
A speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:01:55 and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:03:55 and is available on YouTube.
All achievements in under two hours
A speedrun of all achievements in Dark Souls was completed in 1:59:47 and is available on YouTube.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Pro tip, rarely does anyone actually die in a movie.
Clearly Dark Souls difficulty is over rated.
There are several speedrun records for Dark Souls, including beating the game in under 30 minutes, beating all bosses in under two hours, and beating the game with all achievements in under two hours:
Under 30 minutes
A speedrun of Dark Souls was completed in under 30 minutes and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of Dark Souls was also completed in 30 minutes and is available on YouTube.
All bosses in under two hours
A speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:01:55 and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:03:55 and is available on YouTube.
All achievements in under two hours
A speedrun of all achievements in Dark Souls was completed in 1:59:47 and is available on YouTube.
What this shows even more is how easy mode every thing else in gaming is.
I dont think there is a correlation of how much skill or difficulty something is to how much time it takes to complete once solved.
Take the most complicated math problems. Once solved it can by copied and pasted in 1 sec by most people.
Additionally on the other side, clicking a banana 50,000 times is neither skillful or difficult. If there was enough incentive anyone could do it.
So I would say that difficulty & skill can be calculated as a percentage of the average population that could complete without already solving prior.
With that said, I do like a little bit of sustained difficulty. I am not a fan of 1 shot kills/headshots. I like boss encounters to last a good amount of time.
Losing by itself can feel like a penalty. The time you lose running back to where u were fighting can feel like a penalty.
For me, I don't want players to be discouraged from taking on challenging content. Because taking on a challenge, pushing yourself to get better, and then succeeding.....well, thats what provides players with a big buzz. That's what makes many of us feel good.
If we can encourage gamers to take on more challenging content, if the game can somehow tutor them to become better players, well, maybe the devs will start creating more challenging content, rather than the usual EZ mode crap we keep getting.
Yeah I agree, having death penalties prevents challenging content. The two are completely opposing eachother.
Pretty much if someone is asking for harsh death penalties then I know they want EZ mode combat. They are using the death penalties to substitute for challenge. There is no way to have harsh death penalties and very challenging game combat at the same time.
Ha! You probably shouldn’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Then again maybe someone like me does like ez mode? Are the souls games ez mode?
I think they got it perfect. You’ve cleared a portion of the area, you have a lot of “souls “ and could push on and risk it if you forget an ambush or accidentally fall off a ledge.
For me it’s the best combat I’ve experienced. So if that’s ez mode and dying AND running back to retrieve your souls BUT getting killed on the way and losing everything is harsh then “yup” I’m in.
Im too old for this sh!t :P
Lol, well’ even though I agree that “just failing “ has it’s own self punishment, having some sort stakes makes it more thrilling. It’s like watching a movie where you know no one will die versus watching a movie where there’s a possibility that someone can die.
Pro tip, rarely does anyone actually die in a movie.
Clearly Dark Souls difficulty is over rated.
There are several speedrun records for Dark Souls, including beating the game in under 30 minutes, beating all bosses in under two hours, and beating the game with all achievements in under two hours:
Under 30 minutes
A speedrun of Dark Souls was completed in under 30 minutes and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of Dark Souls was also completed in 30 minutes and is available on YouTube.
All bosses in under two hours
A speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:01:55 and is available on YouTube. Another speedrun of all bosses in Dark Souls was completed in 1:03:55 and is available on YouTube.
All achievements in under two hours
A speedrun of all achievements in Dark Souls was completed in 1:59:47 and is available on YouTube.
I don’t doubt there are people who are amazing at any and every souls game. That doesn’t mean they are inherently easy games. It means there is a class of players dedicated to mastering (and in some cases taking advantage of glitches?) of these games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ha! You probably shouldn’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Then again maybe someone like me does like ez mode? Are the souls games ez mode?
I think they got it perfect. You’ve cleared a portion of the area, you have a lot of “souls “ and could push on and risk it if you forget an ambush or accidentally fall off a ledge.
For me it’s the best combat I’ve experienced. So if that’s ez mode and dying AND running back to retrieve your souls BUT getting killed on the way and losing everything is harsh then “yup” I’m in.
No Dark Souls are not EZ mode but also the death penalty in that game is trivial.
In Dark Souls: No inventory loss No real time loss - portals everywhere No durability loss No gold sinks No item loss
You lose a little souls if you didnt use them to level up and you can get 100% of them back. You can ez use them up by just portaling back to base and leveling up.
If for some reason you die again and lose your souls on a boss, then you can die 1000 times in a row and still lose nothing, there is ZERO death penalty at that point, if dont have souls currently or spent them to level.
On top of all that, you can portal right back to where you died, so there is little time loss.
Which confirms my point, if a game is difficult and you die alot, then you cant have a harsh death penalty.
___ Lets look at it another way, Diablo if you play hardcore mode and beat the game, then you essentially killed 10k+ mobs or more without a single death. That is EZ mode for that player.
So my point stands, any player asking for harsh death penalties is asking the devs to make the game EZ mode in combat.
While a good point there is time loss as you need to run back to the bosses. Elden Ring doesn’t have this. I lost quite a bit of time running back to several bosses in the first game.
losing souls is losing currency to level as well as better your weapons, buying supplies, etc. Yes you can get them back but you also risk dying and losing them.
seem to remember durability loss in the first game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What Blizzard did with Permadeath in Hardcore WoW was perfect, you can transfer your dead characters off to non permadeath servers, perfect.
Though I personally wont give Blizzard another penny until the bring back male and female into their game.
How did they remove male and female from the game? It is in terms of reference to character creation options as I've heard of being in some titles or in another way?
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That .5 second might be a shared reaction time ( for argument’s sake) and one might be able to connect in that time in dark souls, sekiro, Amalar, Skyrim, Elden Ring, etc, there is the other part of the fight, the enemy.
A boss fight in Skyrim is a lot easier than one in Elden Ring.
Even some regular mobs in dark souls will jump out of the way or back stab the player. And the souls games have mobs that tend to hit harder so if they connect you can end up in trouble fast.
Heck, in Sekiro it seems like the player has to develop their parry skills. I don’t recall that in Amalur!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
It’s definitely not a strategy game. If that’s what you’re implying.
But we got here because of death penalties.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Permadeath: With this penalty, if a character dies, they are automatically retired or deleted from the server. However, permadeath is rarely used in MMOs due to its harshness and potential for frustration.
XP or Skill Loss: In old-school MMOs, dying resulted in losing experience points (XP) or skill progress. This penalty could be quite severe, especially in games where leveling up took a long time. EverQuest, for example, implemented this system.
XP Debt: A slight improvement over XP loss, this system “fines” players with XP debt that must be worked off before normal XP flow resumes. It’s less punishing than outright loss but still encourages caution.
Corpse Runs and Full-Body Looting: Some games require players to retrieve their corpse (and gear) from where they died. This can be time-consuming and adds a sense of risk.
Vehicle, Possession, or Structure Loss: Losing vehicles, mounts, or other possessions upon death is another form of penalty. It encourages players to protect their valuable assets.
Debuffs: Temporary debuffs (like lowered stats) after death can hinder gameplay until the penalty wears off. Allods Online uses this approach.
Repair and Run: In some games, equipment durability decreases upon death, requiring players to repair their gear. It’s a mild penalty but still encourages care.
Item Decay: Items might lose durability or quality over time, affecting their effectiveness. This penalty nudges players to play cautiously.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
To the point, do you think death penalties add to combat/ the experience or should there be no death penalties?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
No Dark Souls are not EZ mode but also the death penalty in that game is trivial.
In Dark Souls:
No inventory loss
No real time loss - portals everywhere
No durability loss
No gold sinks
No item loss
You lose a little souls if you didnt use them to level up and you can get 100% of them back. You can ez use them up by just portaling back to base and leveling up.
If for some reason you die again and lose your souls on a boss, then you can die 1000 times in a row and still lose nothing, there is ZERO death penalty at that point, if dont have souls currently or spent them to level.
On top of all that, you can portal right back to where you died, so there is little time loss.
Which confirms my point, if a game is difficult and you die alot, then you cant have a harsh death penalty.
___
Lets look at it another way, Diablo if you play hardcore mode and beat the game, then you essentially killed 10k+ mobs or more without a single death. That is EZ mode for that player.
So my point stands, any player asking for harsh death penalties is asking the devs to make the game EZ mode in combat.
Clearly Dark Souls difficulty is over rated.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Take the most complicated math problems. Once solved it can by copied and pasted in 1 sec by most people.
Additionally on the other side, clicking a banana 50,000 times is neither skillful or difficult. If there was enough incentive anyone could do it.
So I would say that difficulty & skill can be calculated as a percentage of the average population that could complete without already solving prior.
With that said, I do like a little bit of sustained difficulty. I am not a fan of 1 shot kills/headshots. I like boss encounters to last a good amount of time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
losing souls is losing currency to level as well as better your weapons, buying supplies, etc. Yes you can get them back but you also risk dying and losing them.
seem to remember durability loss in the first game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
How did they remove male and female from the game? It is in terms of reference to character creation options as I've heard of being in some titles or in another way?