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MMORPG.COM new editorial (flaming SWG ^^)
Distiler
Member Posts: 416
There you have, a brand new article. Interseting to read:
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/694/page/1
As players what keeps us playing? As the MMO genre matures people are
not going to want to grind away at monsters in an open area. Eventually
as players grow with games they are going to want more. Look at the
errors that Star Wars Galaxies has made with its player base. The game
tried to make a change to accommodate everyone, but the change was made
for the worse. I played Galaxies for a short time and really enjoyed
it; however the life span of the game was short for me. I got sick of
it really easy and found it grueling and repetitive. In a seminar at
GDC one of the developers of SWG admitted that they put time sinks into
the game on purpose. If you had a quest to go to the other side of
Tatooine, you were running for a good thirty minutes of game time. My
answer to that is, WTF? First of all it’s STAR WARS, why can’t players
buy a speeder? Second, why do that to your players? The answer they
gave, to keep people online. Okay, well that type of philosophy by
developers worked “great” on that game, look at SWG now, almost no one
plays. If you want to keep your players online, have them fly over in a
speeder and maybe fight a few guards on the way to the objective. Give
players something to do, not something to sit through. It is these “sit
through” scenarios in MMOs that cause burn out.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/694/page/1
As players what keeps us playing? As the MMO genre matures people are
not going to want to grind away at monsters in an open area. Eventually
as players grow with games they are going to want more. Look at the
errors that Star Wars Galaxies has made with its player base. The game
tried to make a change to accommodate everyone, but the change was made
for the worse. I played Galaxies for a short time and really enjoyed
it; however the life span of the game was short for me. I got sick of
it really easy and found it grueling and repetitive. In a seminar at
GDC one of the developers of SWG admitted that they put time sinks into
the game on purpose. If you had a quest to go to the other side of
Tatooine, you were running for a good thirty minutes of game time. My
answer to that is, WTF? First of all it’s STAR WARS, why can’t players
buy a speeder? Second, why do that to your players? The answer they
gave, to keep people online. Okay, well that type of philosophy by
developers worked “great” on that game, look at SWG now, almost no one
plays. If you want to keep your players online, have them fly over in a
speeder and maybe fight a few guards on the way to the objective. Give
players something to do, not something to sit through. It is these “sit
through” scenarios in MMOs that cause burn out.
Comments
Good article, I liked your response to it as well.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Yes, I read that one. The part about time sink is funny but ALL people that play MMOs know they are there to make you stay online in ALL games... it's sad but true
What bugs me most times when I read what people write about MMOs is the "grind" part. How come everyone is so obsessed with reaching max lvl and "end game" in a skill-system such as old SWG. You never had to "grind" in the game to do stuff, well crafters did as they wouldn't be able to sell anything if they didn't max out first, lol
You could do high-end stuff with your friends at pretty low skillsl, just get a buff and slap on your armour. Sure you had to watch yourself but you'd be fine in a group. You could PvP in a group too, with a crafter/combat toon. In a lvl-based game you get one-hit killed at low lvl but in SWG that was never the case so why grind out a full temp as fast as possible? Only time a maxed out toon was "needed" was in 1 on 1 PvP/duel
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
Slap the buffs on, get the comp equipped and swing away!
But when all is said and done . All it boils down to is what stands , at the end of the road. If it is a horrible game Yeah I'll laugh out loud at SOE . But that remains to be seen , And I hold my judgemnt until I see a final product .
As much as many of you may disagree , I feel there are good things about the new Star wars galaxies . Yet at present they are few and far between . Loads of bugs , Lag and a total lack of diversity outside of appearence tear down the overall experience .Not to mention some questional gameplay mechanics for an MMO like twitch aiming ( I really want to see where they plan to go with combat ) Becuase right now I have no clue what that direction could be.
Another thing that is becoming evident is , More people are returning . It is quite nice having a friend that plays. It allows me to watch SWG's progress and more importantly the status of Bloodfin . Which has been picking up lately 2 months ago If i went to theed at midnight , There were maybe 2 people afk standing around . Now at even 3am if he is on , there is usually atleast 20 or more people there. PVP has almost retruned to its normal numbers from around late CU era .
I logged into my eclipse toon yesterday to walk around , And its community also seems to be picking up . This is not a good sign for anyone who is hoping for a cancellation .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
Yeah, server wars are all great and whatnot, but the kind of pvp this guy is talking about is open world 24/7 no-opt-out pvp.
I seriously think that all second, third, and fourth gen'ers need to step back to a FFA enabled game (the only one I can think of ATM is AC1, but I think there are some old school UO shards out there) to learn what pvp is all about.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Yeah, server wars are all great and whatnot, but the kind of pvp this guy is talking about is open world 24/7 no-opt-out pvp.
I seriously think that all second, third, and fourth gen'ers need to step back to a FFA enabled game (the only one I can think of ATM is AC1, but I think there are some old school UO shards out there) to learn what pvp is all about.
WHy do you think bloodfin has had a server war going for almost a year now ? :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Good article. But I kinda walked away with the feeling that the writer thought people got burned out in SWG. I do not think people got burned out from lack of things to do.
I for one never came close to being burned out. If I got bored with a profession I ground out another one. It took me maybe 7-10 days to get my toon fully templated from one profession to another. Grinding just came with the territory ... never bothered me.
In the end I had a jedi, a master Shipwright/Achitect, and a BH. In the beginning I was like "no way will I bee a crafter". But I found out I only hurt myself by limiting what I would do and what I wouldn't do. In essence, each and every player made his or her own content. I thoroughly enjoyed crafting.
Between changing proffessions, group and guild events, space, visiting each planet, PvP, crafting there was always somehting to do.
No need for a PvP server. All you needed to do was be overt and PvP will find you. Crafting got you to interact with the community. How I truly miss the old SWG.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Actually, the game is finished. It is a failure. That the engineering isn't done 3 years after the fact, is an even worse commentary on the game.
not finished yet) . Whether if this is true or not , It will not happen. Look at the situation , Soe does seem to want to bring the game into more of a PVP oriented experience. Development even that of a smaller scale requires
But SOE cannot even get a publish out without trouble. They certainly cannot
get PvP working correctly. They couldn't get it to work correctly when the game was release in 2003.
funding . It is appearent They have funded atleast another 6-7 months of development time . When all is said an done things could be a lot different than they are now . For better or worse none of us trully know .
Fund... interesting you mention that. Since they alienated 90% of the pre-NGE population and wasted any surplus they had on Christmas 2005 advertising that failed, I really doubt they'll have any funding for any real improvements to the game. It is time to sunse the game.
But when all is said and done . All it boils down to is what stands , at the end of the road. If it is a horrible game Yeah I'll laugh out loud at SOE . But that remains to be seen , And I hold my judgemnt until I see a final product .
All is said and done. It is a horrible game. If the NGE were not horrible, they'd have like, 5millon subscribers. They don't and won't.
As much as many of you may disagree , I feel there are good things about the new Star wars galaxies . Yet at present they are few and far between . Loads of bugs , Lag and a total lack of diversity outside of appearence tear down the overall experience .Not to mention some questional gameplay mechanics for an MMO like twitch aiming ( I really want to see where they plan to go with combat ) Becuase right now I have no clue what that direction could be.
The bad engineering and bad business descisions far outshadow anything that could be good about the game. And most of still find nothing good about the game.
Another thing that is becoming evident is , More people are returning . It is quite nice having a friend that plays. It allows me to watch SWG's progress and more importantly the status of Bloodfin . Which has been picking up lately 2 months ago If i went to theed at midnight , There were maybe 2 people afk standing around . Now at even 3am if he is on , there is usually atleast 20 or more people there. PVP has almost retruned to its normal numbers from around late CU era .
Wrong again. More people are not returning. At best, some station pass subscribers are trying out the game. But vets are not returning. There has yet to be any concrete data to suggest this. Even mmorpgchart.org gives SOE/SWG a "C" for unreliable data.
I logged into my eclipse toon yesterday to walk around , And its community also seems to be picking up . This is not a good sign for anyone who is hoping for a cancellation .
"Seems to be pickingup" is awfully objective. Where is the real data? SWG is dead, face, cancel your account and let the game die the horrible death it deserves.
Actually, the game is finished. It is a failure. That the engineering isn't done 3 years after the fact, is an even worse commentary on the game.
not finished yet) . Whether if this is true or not , It will not happen. Look at the situation , Soe does seem to want to bring the game into more of a PVP oriented experience. Development even that of a smaller scale requires
But SOE cannot even get a publish out without trouble. They certainly cannot
get PvP working correctly. They couldn't get it to work correctly when the game was release in 2003.
funding . It is appearent They have funded atleast another 6-7 months of development time . When all is said an done things could be a lot different than they are now . For better or worse none of us trully know .
Fund... interesting you mention that. Since they alienated 90% of the pre-NGE population and wasted any surplus they had on Christmas 2005 advertising that failed, I really doubt they'll have any funding for any real improvements to the game. It is time to sunse the game.
But when all is said and done . All it boils down to is what stands , at the end of the road. If it is a horrible game Yeah I'll laugh out loud at SOE . But that remains to be seen , And I hold my judgemnt until I see a final product .
All is said and done. It is a horrible game. If the NGE were not horrible, they'd have like, 5millon subscribers. They don't and won't.
As much as many of you may disagree , I feel there are good things about the new Star wars galaxies . Yet at present they are few and far between . Loads of bugs , Lag and a total lack of diversity outside of appearence tear down the overall experience .Not to mention some questional gameplay mechanics for an MMO like twitch aiming ( I really want to see where they plan to go with combat ) Becuase right now I have no clue what that direction could be.
The bad engineering and bad business descisions far outshadow anything that could be good about the game. And most of still find nothing good about the game.
Another thing that is becoming evident is , More people are returning . It is quite nice having a friend that plays. It allows me to watch SWG's progress and more importantly the status of Bloodfin . Which has been picking up lately 2 months ago If i went to theed at midnight , There were maybe 2 people afk standing around . Now at even 3am if he is on , there is usually atleast 20 or more people there. PVP has almost retruned to its normal numbers from around late CU era .
Wrong again. More people are not returning. At best, some station pass subscribers are trying out the game. But vets are not returning. There has yet to be any concrete data to suggest this. Even mmorpgchart.org gives SOE/SWG a "C" for unreliable data.
I logged into my eclipse toon yesterday to walk around , And its community also seems to be picking up . This is not a good sign for anyone who is hoping for a cancellation .
"Seems to be pickingup" is awfully objective. Where is the real data? SWG is dead, face, cancel your account and let the game die the horrible death it deserves.
Do you consider seeing people you knew quit to be not returning vets ? Do you watch your servers forums ? Do you watch a friend play every night ? Do you have an open account ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Do you consider seeing people you knew quit to be not returning vets ? Do you watch your servers forums ? Do you watch a friend play every night ? Do you have an open account ?
I consider nothing. All I need do is look on the general discusion forum of SOE and it is fairly obvious the game is going no where.
Do you consider seeing people you knew quit to be not returning vets ? Do you watch your servers forums ? Do you watch a friend play every night ? Do you have an open account ?
I consider nothing. All I need do is look on the general discusion forum of SOE and it is fairly obvious the game is going no where.
Yes that is a overll game viewpoint , Which I am not concerned with . All that I monitor is Bloodfins population .And you are saying You make up your opinion by reading forums . Sorry I like to see for myself
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Do you consider seeing people you knew quit to be not returning vets ? Do you watch your servers forums ? Do you watch a friend play every night ? Do you have an open account ?
I consider nothing. All I need do is look on the general discusion forum of SOE and it is fairly obvious the game is going no where.
Yes that is a overll game viewpoint , Which I am not concerned with . All that I monitor is Bloodfins population .And you are saying You make up your opinion by reading forums . Sorry I like to see for myself
I see. So you only monitor 1/25th of servers and see a change there and assume that the whole game is expanding. Your logic is only exceeded by your astute insight at extrapolating nothing into more of nothing.
That is true. The SWG Forums are still being filled with discontent, threats of cancellation, people signing on and saying good by as thier account has run out, people complaining about bugs or something broken. The vast number of posts dont even reach many more than 20 - 30 replies. Alot of threads never get out of the single digits. The ones that do have been around for weeks and is usually a flame war going on.
Occasionally you will see a post where someone has returned and they are curious as to what's been going on.
I did recently go back for a month. My guild of 141 people gone. I had about 200 on my friends list .... gone. I did managed to see 3-5 people from my guild only 2 were on with any regularity. My last day I logged in and a guildie had sent out an email to the whole guild. It read like this:
"Where is everyone. I haven't seen anyone in weeks. Does anyone still play?"
I didn't respond to his email as that was my last day. But I was so so sad for him because he still loves the game and he doesn't want to let go.
The last 2 weeks my account was active I made a new toon on Obraiks server. I sat in Mos Eisley and added 30 new people to my friends list. After 2 weeks there was 3 people left in my friends list that was still playing with any regularity.
I don't know for certain but maybe those people got bored and stopped playing .. or maybe they just weren't logged on for some other reason.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
I was going to add this but saw the op already had. I feel that if $oe had anyone with sense running the company, they would pull the plug on this thing and let it go. But that would be asking too much.
Lothor Crestingwalker
Corbantis
SWG Vet
Subbed 7-19-03
Cancelled various times
I hate the NGE
I rather enjoyed grinding out in the open as a pose to loading some stupid map with an 8 man team with x amount of mobs and x amount of objectives to complete. Helll sometimes I'd just sit there and watch the sabers cut through the mobs from afar just to watch the lights flicker, or see a bounty hunter run up on a Jedi. Dunno what this dudes trippin on there.
As for wanting more... HELL I WANT MORE SPACE, MORE LARGE AREAS and more creatures Ive never seen, new professions and planets, new character customization, the ability to take off in a starship from a grounded base, (thats right from ground to space you fly up there and land too WTF!), and howbout Darth Vader sending dark Jedi and bounty hunters after me at any random time just because I'm online and he knows it!
wtf about some kickass Master/Apprentice training plan and some sort of ranking system. The ability to create NEW weapons, armor, vehicles to ride along that vast area and have the weapons and armor to defeat them or die trying if I choose. WHY THE HELL COULDNT THESE THINGS BE ADDED
yea man Im comin around ten years of mmos too, but screw instanced games and yea hes right NO MORE FAGGITASS ELVES AND DWARVES. AND OPEN PVP TOO DAMMIT!
k Im shuttin up now sorry O.o heh
Do you consider seeing people you knew quit to be not returning vets ? Do you watch your servers forums ? Do you watch a friend play every night ? Do you have an open account ?
I consider nothing. All I need do is look on the general discusion forum of SOE and it is fairly obvious the game is going no where.
Yes that is a overll game viewpoint , Which I am not concerned with . All that I monitor is Bloodfins population .And you are saying You make up your opinion by reading forums . Sorry I like to see for myself
I see. So you only monitor 1/25th of servers and see a change there and assume that the whole game is expanding. Your logic is only exceeded by your astute insight at extrapolating nothing into more of nothing.
I see what I see , Believe it or not . I kinda tend to go by what I see rather than what I read others say .. . Returning players are coming from some where be it station pass or resubbing . I also saw an increase in Eclipses population ? That is all I need to see for myself . Log on TC one time it is packed .
I also have no reason to lie , Or try and prove SWG is doing well . I don't care , How they are doing for better or worse it is a non issue to me . I am just saying don't expect the game to be shutting down anytime soon . Especially if they really have 120k+ subs . If you are playing and you haven't noticed an increase between now and around febuary you are comparing the game far to much to wow .
I also would not consider 120k+ to be a dead game . Especially considering it is 3 years old and hasn't ever kept that many more subs . Alot of people consider Eve to be a huge success for having around the same amount of SUbs . It may be that a lot of those people are like me, I have a station access account , AN eve account , World war 2 online account and even subscribe to gametap .
The fact is 2 months ago bloodfin was not dead but doing pretty bad , Now it isn't so bad . So what exactly am I supposed to think ? I am still not playing , I have a station account, so I can pop in when ever I want. Atleast that way I get first hand experience with the game , Therefor I am able to form my own opinion of its status .
If I were to believe forums , the game would be crashing every five minutes , There would be five people playing on each server . Orcs goblins and elves would be in the game. Everyone would be a Jedi . You still can't sit in chairs . It would be impossible to level from 0-90 . There would be no PVP going on what so ever and Armor would all be looted .
I am glad I atleast Know for myself , what reasons I have to not play .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have to disagree with ya there. The forums didn't start looking like that until CU, and even then it wasn't that bad.