I really liked CoH. Best character creation of all MMO's. Great combat and lots of really cool power set options. Very good use of instancing and super casual-player friendly. Great role-play potential too, though few players seemed to make use of it. Yes, it got repetative pretty quickly and became a grind to level but every MMO does that.
By far my biggest complaint was the constant nerfing. With every major patch, most of the AT's were nerfed and at least a few (those that were perceived by the devs as leveling too fast or soloing too easily) were really hammered. Often the nerfs were stealth nerfs and in some cases the devs actually lied about them in the forums. The nerfs are what finally got me to drop my subscription. But for awhile, this game was really a blast to play.
listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.
Jesus...
You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team.
Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.
I've grouped with fire tankers recently and they still are effective.
Enhancement diversification despite being like omg wtf this sux at first, has actually made characters more fun to play, and allows more customization instead of you take 1 acc 5 dmg or u suxxor!
They lowered debt inside missions, raised exp inside missions, made enhancements available on stores instead of having to do contacts.
As was said before. heres the options they had instead of nerfing.
1. Raise all the other pools/ats/builds up to be stronger, and then balance all the changes they made to every pool in regards to the other pools. And then raise all the npcs to be stronger/harder to be a challenge.
2. Do nothing and let overpowered builds stay in play and everyone rolls them and content is trivialized.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others.
Whats the best option there? Either way your not going to be able to keep your uberness.
ATM i could go make any combination of pools in any AT and it'd still be a decent character compared to the others.
Heck i see alot of people who love /kin /empathy on controllers and on mine im /storm and i use it very well with my primary and bring alot to the groups. using freezing rain i can protect squishies from being hit, to get some relief on the tanker while he gets healed. To just control/debuff groups. I can use the gust of wind to knockdown entire enemy groups and keep them in the cornera.
And about repitition.... HONESTLY WHAT MMOS ARE YOU PLAYING BECAUSE ID LOVE TO SEE EM.
World of warcraft. Oh boy im so glad I'm level 60! i can go explore vast areas! fight exotic enemies!!... oh wait theres nothing there.
Level 1, go kill 10 wolves. Level 10, i need some wolf meat!, level 20, those darn wolves need to be put down! Level 30 more wolves... Don't forget cats and boars, if your lucky, maybe a yeti or the same raptors you've been fighting since level 10.
I can fight wolves in forests! wolves in deserts! wolves in the snow! weeee....
Not to mention the entire end game is a few dungeons over and over for months. Just to get some gear so you can do more dungeons over and over and over. great.
Look at DAoC, that game has the most repetitive pve game, and is only redeemed by the pvp. And even that gets boring after awhile.
Every mmorpg is the same thing over and over and over.
EVERY SINGLE ONE, if you complain about coh/covs repetitive missions, then what mmorpgs "break the mold". From what i've seen.
Not AO Not AA Not DDO not DNL not DAOC maybe eve... never played much of eq1 Not EQOA Not EQ2 Not FFXI Not GW(honestly once my guild finally won a guild sigil and got our base i quit because i got bored of the same ol same ol.) Not L2(definately not) maybe mxo.. i had a seizure from the horrible game after my first week Not RO not WoW
its the same thing over and over with slightly different textures.
Originally posted by Bladin listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.Jesus...You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team. Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.I've grouped with fire tankers recently and they still are effective.Enhancement diversification despite being like omg wtf this sux at first, has actually made characters more fun to play, and allows more customization instead of you take 1 acc 5 dmg or u suxxor!They lowered debt inside missions, raised exp inside missions, made enhancements available on stores instead of having to do contacts.As was said before. heres the options they had instead of nerfing.1. Raise all the other pools/ats/builds up to be stronger, and then balance all the changes they made to every pool in regards to the other pools. And then raise all the npcs to be stronger/harder to be a challenge.2. Do nothing and let overpowered builds stay in play and everyone rolls them and content is trivialized.3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others.Whats the best option there? Either way your not going to be able to keep your uberness.ATM i could go make any combination of pools in any AT and it'd still be a decent character compared to the others. Heck i see alot of people who love /kin /empathy on controllers and on mine im /storm and i use it very well with my primary and bring alot to the groups. using freezing rain i can protect squishies from being hit, to get some relief on the tanker while he gets healed. To just control/debuff groups. I can use the gust of wind to knockdown entire enemy groups and keep them in the cornera.And about repitition.... HONESTLY WHAT MMOS ARE YOU PLAYING BECAUSE ID LOVE TO SEE EM.World of warcraft. Oh boy im so glad I'm level 60! i can go explore vast areas! fight exotic enemies!!... oh wait theres nothing there.Level 1, go kill 10 wolves. Level 10, i need some wolf meat!, level 20, those darn wolves need to be put down! Level 30 more wolves... Don't forget cats and boars, if your lucky, maybe a yeti or the same raptors you've been fighting since level 10.I can fight wolves in forests! wolves in deserts! wolves in the snow! weeee....Not to mention the entire end game is a few dungeons over and over for months. Just to get some gear so you can do more dungeons over and over and over. great.Look at DAoC, that game has the most repetitive pve game, and is only redeemed by the pvp. And even that gets boring after awhile.Every mmorpg is the same thing over and over and over.EVERY SINGLE ONE, if you complain about coh/covs repetitive missions, then what mmorpgs "break the mold". From what i've seen.Not AONot AANot DDOnot DNLnot DAOCmaybe eve...never played much of eq1Not EQOANot EQ2Not FFXINot GW(honestly once my guild finally won a guild sigil and got our base i quit because i got bored of the same ol same ol.)Not L2(definately not)maybe mxo.. i had a seizure from the horrible game after my first weekNot ROnot WoWits the same thing over and over with slightly different textures. Stop making flimsy excuses.
Originally posted by Bladin listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.
Jesus...
You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team.
Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.
Although your existing Pre nerf regen is utter pants and now needs to take 5 minutes out between combats for his regeneration powers to recharge and then leave fights halfway through because it has timed out.
If I was to make a new character each time, these nerfs wouldn't be such a problem, the thing is, that's not what I enjoy. I like the continuity. I like that my toon developed organically within a storyboard. I do not wish to have to create a new one each time the devs "feel like it". When it is time for me to redesign my character, I shall do it with a completely new style in a completely new gameworld. Ludicrous that after hundreds and even thousands of hours grinding towards a goal, that when it is removed, people should just "GET THE HECK OVER IT" when there are plenty of other fee paying services to explore. Honestly, who in their right mind pays a monthly premium to "GET THE HECK OVER IT"?
The problem with Regens, isn't that they can no longer solo, it's that they can no longer group.
The regen powers are still strong enough to overwhelm the damage of a single enemy, but no longer strong enough to overwhelm the damage of the multiple enemies found in large groups. This has always been a problem for regens, even pre nerf. The balancing act has always been very fine. My level 50 is curently only fun to play in 8 man groups if he is exemplared to under lvl 30. Excluding him from playing with the same people for very long.
Despite Regen being a good solo build, people do actually wish to play it in groups also.
Enhancement diversification.
"They actually made characters more fun to play". You were always free to diversify your character if you so wished. The options to do so are now less.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others
So why did they nerf Firetanks instead of Invulnerability tanks? Why did they nerf Regen scrappers instead of Invulnerability scrappers? Uberbuilds had nothing to do with it. They were removing a specific style of play from the game that compromised their time/money sinks.
Back to the original idea behind the thred - what was it again? Oh yeah - the game is good, should hold your attention for a while. I enjoyed COH for a couple years, just long enough for Cov to come out and I just quit a couple months ago becuase of lack of updates - just nothing new to do. I bet I go back and play again now the new update is out.
It all depends how the first couple days go you will know if it is the game for you - you like the fighing system and creating characters you will thrive. If it seems boring and repetative you need to get a new game, maybe you will miss the changing of your character by getting loot of armor or clothes - none of that in CoX.
Truth is it is one of the better game out there for certain people - personally I tried Lineage 2 for a 14 day trial (from my COH box) and I played for 4 hours before I knew the game just was not for me. Star Wars Galaxies too - tried to like that game so much on a free trial recently - lasted a couple days of the trial and just knew it was ass.
CoX should keep the most fickle gamer interested at lest the free month and you will not feel cheated and the price is reasonable now I think about 30.00 - all in all a good deal to try for 30 days.
---MMO EXPERIENCE:--- WoW - 06-2006 to current COV - 40 Corruptor - 10-2005 to 04-2006 COH - 50 Scrapper - 04-2004 to 04-2006 EQ2 - 35 Barb Berserker - 12-2004 to 04-2005 EQ1 - 55 Barb Warrior - 2000, 2001 Tried: DaoC, DDO, Auto Assault, SWG, Lineage II
I would come back to the game but it seems like they are taking too long now to bring out the updates. It seems like they are focusing their work now on another paid expansion which is kind of a bummer for me since I thought COV was the last of the paid expansions.
Overall tthough the addition of PVP zones has increased the logevity of the game a bit but the PVP in CoX is not exactly what a harcore PVP player would be looking for.
Ok I7 was a big mother of an update. I think compared to the other Issues they released in the past this one is pretty big. Past Issues delt with COH, now they got to do COV as well.
And out of curiousity I would like to know where you got the info that they are focusing their work on another paid expansion? I haven't see anything mentioned anywhere, maybe I'm not looking in right spots. Would like to know where you got that info from.
Theyre giving it away because they cant sell it and its only 7 months old.
The single biggest problem with CoX is there are way too many non-descript humanoid enemies. Hellions, Skulls, Outcasts, Warrior, Trolls, need I go on?
There are very few single location bosses and they are are hidden in a sea of throw away misisons to force you to not skip missions, but they force you to skip missions because have to chose a contact, and when you choose one you can not get the missions from the other.
The stories IMO are not compelling nor interesting. They never have any kind of closure even when you follow a storyline to the end.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by Bladin listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.
Jesus...
You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team.
Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.
Although your existing Pre nerf regen is utter pants and now needs to take 5 minutes out between combats for his regeneration powers to recharge and then leave fights halfway through because it has timed out.
If I was to make a new character each time, these nerfs wouldn't be such a problem, the thing is, that's not what I enjoy. I like the continuity. I like that my toon developed organically within a storyboard. I do not wish to have to create a new one each time the devs "feel like it". When it is time for me to redesign my character, I shall do it with a completely new style in a completely new gameworld. Ludicrous that after hundreds and even thousands of hours grinding towards a goal, that when it is removed, people should just "GET THE HECK OVER IT" when there are plenty of other fee paying services to explore. Honestly, who in their right mind pays a monthly premium to "GET THE HECK OVER IT"?
The problem with Regens, isn't that they can no longer solo, it's that they can no longer group.
The regen powers are still strong enough to overwhelm the damage of a single enemy, but no longer strong enough to overwhelm the damage of the multiple enemies found in large groups. This has always been a problem for regens, even pre nerf. The balancing act has always been very fine. My level 50 is curently only fun to play in 8 man groups if he is exemplared to under lvl 30. Excluding him from playing with the same people for very long.
Despite Regen being a good solo build, people do actually wish to play it in groups also.
Enhancement diversification.
"They actually made characters more fun to play". You were always free to diversify your character if you so wished. The options to do so are now less.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others
So why did they nerf Firetanks instead of Invulnerability tanks? Why did they nerf Regen scrappers instead of Invulnerability scrappers? Uberbuilds had nothing to do with it. They were removing a specific style of play from the game that compromised their time/money sinks.
okay this right here is total and complete garbage.
Regen doesn't have ANY downtime, unless your in a mission that has a av in every single mob then chances are... you probably won't even need to use instant healing. In fact i generally only use it on EBs, or multiple red bosses(even then i normally don't need it). And even in groups, tankers absorb the alpha strike, and should be drawing most of the aggro, controllers can lock down quite a few enemies as well. If your talking about being squishy vs AVs, then i'll give you that much, but even pre nerf the problem was still there. Scrappers were never meant to be soloing avs and giant monsters, and they WERE, I'm sorry but that just wasn't ideal. I'm not saying you should have to go get a full team to take them down, or hunt for specific builds(which is why i am against the current AV/GM changes)
Do i have to download fraps and make a video to show you how "horrible regen is" And honestly with permi instant healing, i could run into a group of +2s, auto my aoe attack, and go afk, and come back and theyd all be dead and id be at full health. Am i the only one that sees that as wrong?
I still see fire tankers doing their job, they still hold their own.
Now, yes we COULD diversify, but it wasn't encouraged, the same reason why permi hasten was almost required for any build. And Stamina basically still is. The problem with the old system, it had too many requirements to be a overall effective character.
Why not invuln tanks? Maybe because invuln tanks have almost no resistance to anything other then smashing/lethal? Because they didn't have any form of aoes in invuln?
You do know that invuln scrappers are generally regarded as the worst scrapper don't you? They aren't unplayable, but they are not as good as the other armors. Why nerf regen? because it was constantly outperforming the other secondaries by a giant amount.
A style of play? What style was that? Solo? hmmm nope can still solo. Grouping? Nope i can still group. Herding? Hmm thats out, or at least i haven't seen much herding in a long time. Maybe you should get some tanker/controller friends to group with you in your 8 mans? Scrappers are not and never were meant to be tankers, they are high damage melee attackers, with decent defenses to hold their own. And scrappers are some of the best characters in pvp.
Uberbuilds had EVERYTHING to do with it.
If you weren't so blinded by the facts that they actually made you "normal" instead of invincible. You wouldn't be so bitter.
And if your that desperate, go get some of the hp increasing badges you can gain a good 10-20% max hp, and you regen/heal yourself on %s so youd be alot stronger there too.
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They are giving city of villains away for free? Hmmm 60 bucks for auto assault and you get a copy of cov. Not too shabby, and it's a great way to get more sells for both.
50 bucks for 1 game, or 60 bucks for 2 games. To me I'd honestly go for the 60 2 game option. Haven't you ever seen marketing gimmicks before? Buy 2 get 1 free! buy this and get this. It's absolutely nothing new.
The storylines don't offer you the closure you want? You don't like missing contacts?
Well the storylines are just branches of missions you do for a contact, and they usually end with a bang, through a hard fight, a AV, a EB or unique maps.
It may not offer you a sense of closure because the game doesn't end, in single player games you finish your series, and your done, happy ending, everyone goes on with their lives. Well I'm sorry but each storyline is just part of your characters life.
What do you want? theres plenty of very intrigueing storylines out there. Be it having a nictus inside of you. Stealing technology and doing trickery through illusions(temp powers and a disguise) to cause a war between groups. And plenty of others.
Yes you choose your contacts, you can choose to NEVER get any contacts in cov past te first starter ones IF you even want to do them. What do you want, to be forced to take certain npcs missions in a certain order, and you can't do the others? Go play guild wars.
You never are unable to get another contact. You can get EVERY contact. If you level too fast, Exemp down with someone close to you and finish up them before you out level them, you could also gather alot of debt so you get longer periods of time to go through missions, whats that? you don't want to slow your leveling? But i thought you wanted to see everything? Can't have both ya'know. If its that important to you it shouldn't bother you. And heck maybe you'll be able to unlock doc buzzsaw as a contact.
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Yes issue 7 was a big big update. And they overestimated what they could do on a reasonable rate. They added a new physics engine(ageix or something similar), mayhem missions, grandville, Recluse's victory, Patron arcs/powers, more badges, more accolades, 2 new powersets, 40-50 content for cov.
I agree i was getting slightly bored because of the lack of new content for that long period. and I7 should have been split into 2 different issues. But it is massive, and it's alot of fun.
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Yes there will be new paid expansions, the devs have stated it on the forums before. But there will never be another "Expansalone" as in another group. The next paid expansion will include a mass amount of content. Its rumoured it will include the rikti homeworld, as well as many other things. There will still be the normal issues.
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For you claiming that regen is so gimp. I dare you to go to the coh forums and say, Why did they nerf regen, it sucks now, i can't do anything. And see the responses you get.
And i'll say it again. Show me another mmo that offers a great storyline, a vast amount of content, never anything repetitive. And don't say guild wars. The PvE of that game is mainly just a single player rpg. Thats why it has a persistant story.
Quote me eve, that game has no content. Eve is made fun because of the people playing it, i've tried it and talked to veterans, its fun and draw is its system itself.
Show me another mmorpg that never has any changes to any of its classes.
DAoC has major nerfs and buffs for its classes all the times. EQ2 went through some major changes. And pretty much everything is balanced from my experiences.
You could say guild wars hasnt had major nerfs, but that game was designed and balanced around pvp at step one. It's entire system is made for balance.
Lineage II constantly has "uber of the week" syndrom
WoW in its past has characters who underperformed, who overperformed, and went through many buffs and changes. Why do you think in EVERY update they totally rehaul the talent trees of classes? Becaue they are preparing for the expansion? or because they weren't well thought out before. "Wand specialization" is just one of the many examples.
Originally posted by Bladin okay this right here is total and complete garbage.
Regen doesn't have ANY downtime, unless your in a mission that has a av in every single mob then chances are... you probably won't even need to use instant healing. In fact i generally only use it on EBs, or multiple red bosses(even then i normally don't need it). And even in groups, tankers absorb the alpha strike, and should be drawing most of the aggro, controllers can lock down quite a few enemies as well. If your talking about being squishy vs AVs, then i'll give you that much, but even pre nerf the problem was still there. Scrappers were never meant to be soloing avs and giant monsters, and they WERE, I'm sorry but that just wasn't ideal. I'm not saying you should have to go get a full team to take them down, or hunt for specific builds(which is why i am against the current AV/G changes)
No, they weren't. Controllers were soloing AV's no one else. And quite frankly those controllers who were managing it were extrodinarily skilled players and deserved to be.
Please name me all the AV's you soloed as a Regen scrappperand what your level was compared to theirs at the time. I hear about this a lot, but never from anyone who has actually done it. I have never seen this done, and nor have you.
Regen, didn't have any downtime. Now they do. I need to use instant healing, because otherwise I fall over. Presumably they didn't nerf your regen, and you made one more recently.
In groups Tankers draw the major damage, but since the total damage from one strike can instantly kill a Regen Scrapper, he is effectively a squishy. An Inv scrapper on the otherhand, because of his resistances, cannot be instantly killed Because he only takes a percentage of the damage, he may heal or withdraw from the frontline in time to survive the fight. The Regen standing next to him is dead. Scrappers are front row fighters, they may not be tanks but they are not meant to be as squishy as blasters and controllers and defenders etc.
Originally posted by Bladin Do i have to download fraps and make a video to show you how "horrible regen is" And honestly with permi instant healing, i could run into a group of +2s, auto my aoe attack, and go afk, and come back and theyd all be dead and id be at full health. Am i the only one that sees that as wrong?
Not a very big group of +2's. Try doing this in an 8 man team. Please Frap away and while your there show me how you solo AV's. Ultimately, I don't even care if you can. I can't and it's me that isn't resubscribing, not you.
Originally posted by Bladin
I still see fire tankers doing their job, they still hold their own.
I agree, but the reason they got nerfed is because of herding in Drecks. It's physocal damage only, every tank can herd in Drecks. Put a fire tank up against some other damage types and you will soon see it's limitations. The firetank balanced less resistances against increased damage. It's a great tank in certain roles, and a terrible tank in others. It's always been well balanced. The nerfs were not balance related.
Originally posted by Bladin
Now, yes we COULD diversify, but it wasn't encouraged, the same reason why permi hasten was almost required for any build. And Stamina basically still is. The problem with the old system, it had too many requirements to be a overall effective character.
And now we are encouraged to diversify less.My biggest problem with this is that I spent about 600 hours farming for a complete set of lvl 53 enhancements only to have half of them made useless. Plus, since I had focused on being a defensive toon, my ability to be so was nerfed. (No biggy, my toon was nerfed into redundancy long before then). More uselss than too useless to play? I'm beyond caring.
Nothing was "required" for any build. I have never played with "permi" anything.
Originally posted by Bladin Why not invuln tanks? Maybe because invuln tanks have almost no resistance to anything other then smashing/lethal? Because they didn't have any form of aoes in invuln?
You do know that invuln scrappers are generally regarded as the worst scrapper don't you? They aren't unplayable, but they are not as good as the other armors. Why nerf regen? because it was constantly outperforming the other secondaries by a giant amount.
An Invulnerabilty tank has a smashing foot stomp AOE. they gain resistances to all but psionic and toxic, they can have a 90% resistance max, higher than all other tanks.
Dark are generally considered to be the weakest scrappers. But I notice that it just depeneded on the person playing it. I fought side by side with Darks that could keep up and darks that couldn't (more that couldn't). Regens that could keep up and regens that couldn't. I fought side by sides with INVs that could overtake. Lot's of them.
Regen wasn't outperforming the other builds. When you go to bed, the Regen plays on. Thats why they chose the solo build, and that's why they level faster than you. In the arena Regens weren't winning, blasters were.
Essentially, whatever build you play, you always think the other guy has it easier. It's easier to swallow that the guy doing better than you has an uber-build than it is to believe he is a better player. Games like Counterstrike however, where everybody has the same identical build teaches you that abilities vary widely.
Instead of worrying which build is the most uber, shouldn't you simply worry about whether you are enjoying the build you are playing? Is it fun? Do you feel you have a defined role to play with the team? Can you keep up? etc etc.
There will always be a "better" build than yours. Get over it. Once you have nerfed one rival, you will soon find another person playing another build and require that to be nerfed also.
Taking away the fun of others is not the preferred solution to any perceived injustices. There are countless preferable ways they could have rebalanced the games (should it actually of needed it). New enemy types that focus on Firetanks, or give freaks resistances to fire, or set a load of specials after regens like they do for the alien supers. So many ways, but the answer they chose was not to add to the fun but to subtract from it. To nerf rather than enhance.
Originally posted by Bladin
A style of play? What style was that? Solo? hmmm nope can still solo. Grouping? Nope i can still group. Herding? Hmm thats out, or at least i haven't seen much herding in a long time. Maybe you should get some tanker/controller friends to group with you in your 8 mans? Scrappers are not and never were meant to be tankers, they are high damage melee attackers, with decent defenses to hold their own. And scrappers are some of the best characters in pvp.
Uberbuilds had EVERYTHING to do with it.
If you weren't so blinded by the facts that they actually made you "normal" instead of invincible. You wouldn't be so bitter.
And if your that desperate, go get some of the hp increasing badges you can gain a good 10-20% max hp, and you regen/heal yourself on %s so youd be alot stronger there too.
I greatly enjoyed herding. Herding is the style of play they most wished to nerf, because it can be used to power level in Drecks. Thereby bypassing their timesinks. It's a revenue killer.
Solo, I can still solo. Grouping, I can no longer group. You may be able to, but I don't think you had a pre-nerf regen or you would have known they couldn't solo AV's.
Why would you imagine my 8 man teams weren't balanced? Did you really think I had level capped without learning how to play? Perhaps the most enjoyable teams were 8 regen scrappers. Pre nerf, of course.
My Regen has every badge except the training badge and a full set of lvl 53's.
What made me bitter was after 1,200 hours of playing it, being forced to retire my toon. And the for the last 900 hours of that play, watching him get progressively weaker the more I played.
Originally posted by Hoplites I would come back to the game but it seems like they are taking too long now to bring out the updates. It seems like they are focusing their work now on another paid expansion which is kind of a bummer for me since I thought COV was the last of the paid expansions.
Overall tthough the addition of PVP zones has increased the logevity of the game a bit but the PVP in CoX is not exactly what a harcore PVP player would be looking for.
I actually WISH they would have had more paid expansions. I wish they would have had ONE. CoV wasnt an expansion. It added very, very little to CoH. Those people who have characters at 50 could now build strongholds. They didnt get more enemies to fight. There were no new zones FOR COH. There were no new archetypes FOR COH. Riddle me this Batman, how hard would it have been to make CoV an 'alongside' expansion? Where all the CoV zones were CoH hazard zones, and vice versa. All the CoV archetypes weren't 'villain' archetypes. They were just NEW ARCHETYPES. CoV players and CoH players, instead of having five archetypes to choose from, would have TEN!! WOULDNT THAT HAVE BEEN GREAT?!
Thats what normal games do.
The developers of CoH stuck to a model of forced grouping through massive grind. You COULD solo your character, but the xp rewards were so poor, and the requirements to level were so large (1,000 white kills to get from 30 to 31. I calculated it. Twice that for 35 to 36.) that you had no choice but to group. And even then, SLOOOOOOW. I have played a lot of other games. Including, yes, WoW. CoH has better mechanics, but WoW has more content, and is more player friendly. If CoH had HALF as many places to explore and hunt as WoW, I wouldnt know how much there was to do in WoW, because I'd still be in CoH. Instead, they have added little bits of content here and there.
listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.Jesus...You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team. Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.I've grouped with fire tankers recently and they still are effective.Enhancement diversification despite being like omg wtf this sux at first, has actually made characters more fun to play, and allows more customization instead of you take 1 acc 5 dmg or u suxxor!They lowered debt inside missions, raised exp inside missions, made enhancements available on stores instead of having to do contacts.As was said before. heres the options they had instead of nerfing.1. Raise all the other pools/ats/builds up to be stronger, and then balance all the changes they made to every pool in regards to the other pools. And then raise all the npcs to be stronger/harder to be a challenge.2. Do nothing and let overpowered builds stay in play and everyone rolls them and content is trivialized.3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others.Whats the best option there? Either way your not going to be able to keep your uberness.ATM i could go make any combination of pools in any AT and it'd still be a decent character compared to the others. Heck i see alot of people who love /kin /empathy on controllers and on mine im /storm and i use it very well with my primary and bring alot to the groups. using freezing rain i can protect squishies from being hit, to get some relief on the tanker while he gets healed. To just control/debuff groups. I can use the gust of wind to knockdown entire enemy groups and keep them in the cornera.And about repitition.... HONESTLY WHAT MMOS ARE YOU PLAYING BECAUSE ID LOVE TO SEE EM.World of warcraft. Oh boy im so glad I'm level 60! i can go explore vast areas! fight exotic enemies!!... oh wait theres nothing there.Level 1, go kill 10 wolves. Level 10, i need some wolf meat!, level 20, those darn wolves need to be put down! Level 30 more wolves... Don't forget cats and boars, if your lucky, maybe a yeti or the same raptors you've been fighting since level 10.I can fight wolves in forests! wolves in deserts! wolves in the snow! weeee....Not to mention the entire end game is a few dungeons over and over for months. Just to get some gear so you can do more dungeons over and over and over. great.Look at DAoC, that game has the most repetitive pve game, and is only redeemed by the pvp. And even that gets boring after awhile.Every mmorpg is the same thing over and over and over.EVERY SINGLE ONE, if you complain about coh/covs repetitive missions, then what mmorpgs "break the mold". From what i've seen.Not AONot AANot DDOnot DNLnot DAOCmaybe eve...never played much of eq1Not EQOANot EQ2Not FFXINot GW(honestly once my guild finally won a guild sigil and got our base i quit because i got bored of the same ol same ol.)Not L2(definately not)maybe mxo.. i had a seizure from the horrible game after my first weekNot ROnot WoWits the same thing over and over with slightly different textures. Stop making flimsy excuses.
He did? I read maybe the first two sentences then got lost in the lack of sentence structure. The only thing that stood out was 'get the heck over it". Did he mean like people in SWG?
Exactly Baff. I don't know why people couldn't see the diversity of the ATs as a good thing. A forum poster that is pro Dev mentioned something about how people's perception are out of whack when complaining about the balancing. This poster has always made arguments that were difficult to debate and he was always persisitent. But my point is after reading his post on people's perceptions, made me think that why did ED have to be implented for people to feel they had more choices. It sounds like people's lack of perception is still there and ED won't change it. If they couldn't recognize the beauty of the builds pre I4, then they certainly won't recognize them now and the nerfing will continue.
I've been playing so long and never have thought myself as a skilled player since I'm not that good at PvP and see many others leveling much faster than myself. Recently, I introduced a friend who is normally a console player to the game and was surprised at how much he could not do that I have taken for granted. Though he is almost used to the mouse and keyboard controls(and is actually liking it), I still can't believe the tactics he uses. I try to coach him but as a hard-core gamer he tells me to shut up and let him learn on his own. Yes, I would say he already passed the 30 minute learning curve, but the general tactics of fighting mob types, large mobs and mobs with bosses is still a ways away.l
So, yes skill does play a factor, which is very surprising to me since I consider the gameplay very shallow and not deserving of any serious thought. That said, I do find quite a few of the nerfs unfair. Some were simple and could not be argues such as Smoke Grenade or Perma Invincibilty but at this point in the game, I would prefer the devs concentrate on adding more depth to the game instead of pretending there is still a problem and spending weeks testing and balancing such small issues such as Range Boost so it doesn't buff melee powers.
Personally, I think they have such limited resources they are blowing up balance issues to make it seem like they need a lot of attention and time when in actuality its an easy fix that takes relatively minimal effort. But that's the conspiracy nut in me speaking. So please stop with the effing nerfing, I will gladly pay $30 for some real content(i.e. the coming paid expansion)
So, as far as the topic of this thread, no, I do not think CoX is getting the attention it needs.
Originally posted by tute Personally, I think they have such limited resources they are blowing up balance issues to make it seem like they need a lot of attention and time when in actuality its an easy fix that takes relatively minimal effort. But that's the conspiracy nut in me speaking.
Always nice to meet someone with like minded paranoia.
I've come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no way to predict whether a person will like this game or not. So many players I've known have quit super-fast, while others have played since lauch non-stop. I can't explain any of it, the game experience for CoH/CoV is entirely subjective and the only way someone will ever know if they'll like it, quite frankly, is to try it. I know that could be said about lots of games, but having played many and known many players, I must say it applies to this game more than most.
Originally posted by baff Everyone I have ever met who has tried this game has liked it. 100% track record so far.
Same.
However, all of them are sad at the end, if not outright angry.
I am in the sad boat. Sometimes I believe in them, I really WANT to, but...removing my toy in a hobby, where I work 1 month to gain a 5% bonus in strengh and suddenly see a 30% nerf...that would make any achiever sad. The angry folks are non-achievers in my surrounding at the very least.
I7 hit us with another nerf, I don't understand it, but I see the results, they are without argumentation. (or it might have happened before I7 and since CoV release, but the results are without question, I can't do some stuff I was able to, and so on...this is outright killing my motivation)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by damian7 every issue they come out with new and cool powersets to create new characters.
every issue they come out with a new zone, complete with some new gangbangers to put the beatdown on.
the character creation and end game build variety in coX is absolutely incredible.
but, like what was said, you have to have a high threshold for doing the exact same mission over and over again in order to level your characters.
having said that, do NOT rush to level. get as many contacts as possible and do ALL of their missions. read and enjoy the story lines. that will help you extend your enjoyment of the game. this game is ALL about the trip to level 50, enjoy that trip. from the people running the show (i.e. statesman), your reward at lvl 50 is to create a new toon and enjoy the ride a second time~!!
This is great advice, which is why I have all my character slots filled up and play a lot of different character types. It keeps the game fun and lively.
Originally posted by PB&J Originally posted by damian7 every issue they come out with new and cool powersets to create new characters.
every issue they come out with a new zone, complete with some new gangbangers to put the beatdown on.
the character creation and end game build variety in coX is absolutely incredible.
but, like what was said, you have to have a high threshold for doing the exact same mission over and over again in order to level your characters.
having said that, do NOT rush to level. get as many contacts as possible and do ALL of their missions. read and enjoy the story lines. that will help you extend your enjoyment of the game. this game is ALL about the trip to level 50, enjoy that trip. from the people running the show (i.e. statesman), your reward at lvl 50 is to create a new toon and enjoy the ride a second time~!!
This is great advice, which is why I have all my character slots filled up and play a lot of different character types. It keeps the game fun and lively.
The lower level CoV zones are packed every night. I play on Freedom and Virute. I see lots of other players on both serers. I look at the server list and see medium loads on every server in prime time. I think the game is doing better than ever.
The lower level CoV zones are packed every night. I play on Freedom and Virute. I see lots of other players on both serers. I look at the server list and see medium loads on every server in prime time. I think the game is doing better than ever.
Agree Agree. I think, and this is my opinion, that with the release of Superman soon, you might see a smidge more people cause some may want to try the game. Boy that's just prime advertising NCSOFT could do before the movie.
But yeah, the population isn't split evenly into 63k per region. What kind of logic is that?
This kind of stupid doom remarks gets old very fast. Its just fanboys trying to defends something that they know they can’t. We all know that they population is down. I was there at the start. PI had over 1k of people in that zone at 12AM. When I left it only around 10 in the area on prime time.
The numbers I posted was to prove a point. It was not a direct translation of the population of each region. I figure people would know this. North America alone used to have 250k. They can’t break the 200k mark with three regions now. That’s pathetic.
What's pathetic is your claim of doom that people have been making for two years now that has never happened. The only dropoff that's occurred is around the time WoW and EQ2 came out (well, no-brainer there), and the one right about now (which is a drop in the bucket compared to the last one), probably caused by everyone waiting half a year just for I7.
Not only that, but I'd really like to know where you got that 250k figure, because according to mmogchart.com, that's a load.
Oh, and the doom remark was in response to your "Nothing can save this game." quote, hence why I, yknow, quoted it. If anything, populations are higher than launch, the only problem is that it's split about evenly between two games.
Originally posted by jdun1 The numbers I posted was to prove a point. It was not a direct translation of the population of each region. I figure people would know this. North America alone used to have 250k. They can’t break the 200k mark with three regions now. That’s pathetic.
The most players COH has ever had was 194,000. This was right after the lauch of COV.
The previous record amount of players was after initial release in the U.S. When COH had 163,053.
(Never underestimate the marketing power of boxes on shelves).
Regardless of the release of any other games, COH subscriber numbers steadily deteriorated over the next 18 months until the release of COV, despite being launched in Europe and doubling it's potenetial audience.
Currently COH/COV subscriptions are falling again, the last recorded figure was 182,250. The current figures for this summer have not been released. I fully expect them to be lower.
Server population should "feel" significantly lower. There are less players per server today, than there were after COH released in 2004. Servers have doubled in size.
Per individual server, there are fewer players spread over a far wider area.
Comments
I really liked CoH. Best character creation of all MMO's. Great combat and lots of really cool power set options. Very good use of instancing and super casual-player friendly. Great role-play potential too, though few players seemed to make use of it. Yes, it got repetative pretty quickly and became a grind to level but every MMO does that.
By far my biggest complaint was the constant nerfing. With every major patch, most of the AT's were nerfed and at least a few (those that were perceived by the devs as leveling too fast or soloing too easily) were really hammered. Often the nerfs were stealth nerfs and in some cases the devs actually lied about them in the forums. The nerfs are what finally got me to drop my subscription. But for awhile, this game was really a blast to play.
listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.
Jesus...
You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team.
Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.
I've grouped with fire tankers recently and they still are effective.
Enhancement diversification despite being like omg wtf this sux at first, has actually made characters more fun to play, and allows more customization instead of you take 1 acc 5 dmg or u suxxor!
They lowered debt inside missions, raised exp inside missions, made enhancements available on stores instead of having to do contacts.
As was said before. heres the options they had instead of nerfing.
1. Raise all the other pools/ats/builds up to be stronger, and then balance all the changes they made to every pool in regards to the other pools. And then raise all the npcs to be stronger/harder to be a challenge.
2. Do nothing and let overpowered builds stay in play and everyone rolls them and content is trivialized.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others.
Whats the best option there? Either way your not going to be able to keep your uberness.
ATM i could go make any combination of pools in any AT and it'd still be a decent character compared to the others.
Heck i see alot of people who love /kin /empathy on controllers and on mine im /storm and i use it very well with my primary and bring alot to the groups. using freezing rain i can protect squishies from being hit, to get some relief on the tanker while he gets healed. To just control/debuff groups. I can use the gust of wind to knockdown entire enemy groups and keep them in the cornera.
And about repitition.... HONESTLY WHAT MMOS ARE YOU PLAYING BECAUSE ID LOVE TO SEE EM.
World of warcraft. Oh boy im so glad I'm level 60! i can go explore vast areas! fight exotic enemies!!... oh wait theres nothing there.
Level 1, go kill 10 wolves. Level 10, i need some wolf meat!, level 20, those darn wolves need to be put down! Level 30 more wolves... Don't forget cats and boars, if your lucky, maybe a yeti or the same raptors you've been fighting since level 10.
I can fight wolves in forests! wolves in deserts! wolves in the snow! weeee....
Not to mention the entire end game is a few dungeons over and over for months. Just to get some gear so you can do more dungeons over and over and over. great.
Look at DAoC, that game has the most repetitive pve game, and is only redeemed by the pvp. And even that gets boring after awhile.
Every mmorpg is the same thing over and over and over.
EVERY SINGLE ONE, if you complain about coh/covs repetitive missions, then what mmorpgs "break the mold".
From what i've seen.
Not AO
Not AA
Not DDO
not DNL
not DAOC
maybe eve...
never played much of eq1
Not EQOA
Not EQ2
Not FFXI
Not GW(honestly once my guild finally won a guild sigil and got our base i quit because i got bored of the same ol same ol.)
Not L2(definately not)
maybe mxo.. i had a seizure from the horrible game after my first week
Not RO
not WoW
its the same thing over and over with slightly different textures.
Stop making flimsy excuses.
ROFL Bladin just pwned this thread
Although your existing Pre nerf regen is utter pants and now needs to take 5 minutes out between combats for his regeneration powers to recharge and then leave fights halfway through because it has timed out.
If I was to make a new character each time, these nerfs wouldn't be such a problem, the thing is, that's not what I enjoy. I like the continuity.
I like that my toon developed organically within a storyboard. I do not wish to have to create a new one each time the devs "feel like it". When it is time for me to redesign my character, I shall do it with a completely new style in a completely new gameworld. Ludicrous that after hundreds and even thousands of hours grinding towards a goal, that when it is removed, people should just "GET THE HECK OVER IT" when there are plenty of other fee paying services to explore. Honestly, who in their right mind pays a monthly premium to "GET THE HECK OVER IT"?
The problem with Regens, isn't that they can no longer solo, it's that they can no longer group.
The regen powers are still strong enough to overwhelm the damage of a single enemy, but no longer strong enough to overwhelm the damage of the multiple enemies found in large groups. This has always been a problem for regens, even pre nerf. The balancing act has always been very fine. My level 50 is curently only fun to play in 8 man groups if he is exemplared to under lvl 30. Excluding him from playing with the same people for very long.
Despite Regen being a good solo build, people do actually wish to play it in groups also.
Enhancement diversification.
"They actually made characters more fun to play". You were always free to diversify your character if you so wished. The options to do so are now less.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others
So why did they nerf Firetanks instead of Invulnerability tanks? Why did they nerf Regen scrappers instead of Invulnerability scrappers? Uberbuilds had nothing to do with it. They were removing a specific style of play from the game that compromised their time/money sinks.
Back to the original idea behind the thred - what was it again? Oh yeah - the game is good, should hold your attention for a while. I enjoyed COH for a couple years, just long enough for Cov to come out and I just quit a couple months ago becuase of lack of updates - just nothing new to do. I bet I go back and play again now the new update is out.
It all depends how the first couple days go you will know if it is the game for you - you like the fighing system and creating characters you will thrive. If it seems boring and repetative you need to get a new game, maybe you will miss the changing of your character by getting loot of armor or clothes - none of that in CoX.
Truth is it is one of the better game out there for certain people - personally I tried Lineage 2 for a 14 day trial (from my COH box) and I played for 4 hours before I knew the game just was not for me. Star Wars Galaxies too - tried to like that game so much on a free trial recently - lasted a couple days of the trial and just knew it was ass.
CoX should keep the most fickle gamer interested at lest the free month and you will not feel cheated and the price is reasonable now I think about 30.00 - all in all a good deal to try for 30 days.
---MMO EXPERIENCE:---
WoW - 06-2006 to current
COV - 40 Corruptor - 10-2005 to 04-2006
COH - 50 Scrapper - 04-2004 to 04-2006
EQ2 - 35 Barb Berserker - 12-2004 to 04-2005
EQ1 - 55 Barb Warrior - 2000, 2001
Tried: DaoC, DDO, Auto Assault, SWG, Lineage II
Overall tthough the addition of PVP zones has increased the logevity of the game a bit but the PVP in CoX is not exactly what a harcore PVP player would be looking for.
Ok I7 was a big mother of an update. I think compared to the other Issues they released in the past this one is pretty big. Past Issues delt with COH, now they got to do COV as well.
And out of curiousity I would like to know where you got the info that they are focusing their work on another paid expansion? I haven't see anything mentioned anywhere, maybe I'm not looking in right spots. Would like to know where you got that info from.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Everything you need to know about COV is right here:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=B646330C
Theyre giving it away because they cant sell it and its only 7 months old.
The single biggest problem with CoX is there are way too many non-descript humanoid enemies. Hellions, Skulls, Outcasts, Warrior, Trolls, need I go on?
There are very few single location bosses and they are are hidden in a sea of throw away misisons to force you to not skip missions, but they force you to skip missions because have to chose a contact, and when you choose one you can not get the missions from the other.
The stories IMO are not compelling nor interesting. They never have any kind of closure even when you follow a storyline to the end.
Although your existing Pre nerf regen is utter pants and now needs to take 5 minutes out between combats for his regeneration powers to recharge and then leave fights halfway through because it has timed out.
If I was to make a new character each time, these nerfs wouldn't be such a problem, the thing is, that's not what I enjoy. I like the continuity.
I like that my toon developed organically within a storyboard. I do not wish to have to create a new one each time the devs "feel like it". When it is time for me to redesign my character, I shall do it with a completely new style in a completely new gameworld. Ludicrous that after hundreds and even thousands of hours grinding towards a goal, that when it is removed, people should just "GET THE HECK OVER IT" when there are plenty of other fee paying services to explore. Honestly, who in their right mind pays a monthly premium to "GET THE HECK OVER IT"?
The problem with Regens, isn't that they can no longer solo, it's that they can no longer group.
The regen powers are still strong enough to overwhelm the damage of a single enemy, but no longer strong enough to overwhelm the damage of the multiple enemies found in large groups. This has always been a problem for regens, even pre nerf. The balancing act has always been very fine. My level 50 is curently only fun to play in 8 man groups if he is exemplared to under lvl 30. Excluding him from playing with the same people for very long.
Despite Regen being a good solo build, people do actually wish to play it in groups also.
Enhancement diversification.
"They actually made characters more fun to play". You were always free to diversify your character if you so wished. The options to do so are now less.
3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others
So why did they nerf Firetanks instead of Invulnerability tanks? Why did they nerf Regen scrappers instead of Invulnerability scrappers? Uberbuilds had nothing to do with it. They were removing a specific style of play from the game that compromised their time/money sinks.
okay this right here is total and complete garbage.
Regen doesn't have ANY downtime, unless your in a mission that has a av in every single mob then chances are... you probably won't even need to use instant healing. In fact i generally only use it on EBs, or multiple red bosses(even then i normally don't need it). And even in groups, tankers absorb the alpha strike, and should be drawing most of the aggro, controllers can lock down quite a few enemies as well. If your talking about being squishy vs AVs, then i'll give you that much, but even pre nerf the problem was still there. Scrappers were never meant to be soloing avs and giant monsters, and they WERE, I'm sorry but that just wasn't ideal. I'm not saying you should have to go get a full team to take them down, or hunt for specific builds(which is why i am against the current AV/GM changes)
Do i have to download fraps and make a video to show you how "horrible regen is" And honestly with permi instant healing, i could run into a group of +2s, auto my aoe attack, and go afk, and come back and theyd all be dead and id be at full health. Am i the only one that sees that as wrong?
I still see fire tankers doing their job, they still hold their own.
Now, yes we COULD diversify, but it wasn't encouraged, the same reason why permi hasten was almost required for any build. And Stamina basically still is. The problem with the old system, it had too many requirements to be a overall effective character.
Why not invuln tanks? Maybe because invuln tanks have almost no resistance to anything other then smashing/lethal? Because they didn't have any form of aoes in invuln?
You do know that invuln scrappers are generally regarded as the worst scrapper don't you? They aren't unplayable, but they are not as good as the other armors. Why nerf regen? because it was constantly outperforming the other secondaries by a giant amount.
A style of play? What style was that? Solo? hmmm nope can still solo. Grouping? Nope i can still group. Herding? Hmm thats out, or at least i haven't seen much herding in a long time. Maybe you should get some tanker/controller friends to group with you in your 8 mans? Scrappers are not and never were meant to be tankers, they are high damage melee attackers, with decent defenses to hold their own. And scrappers are some of the best characters in pvp.
Uberbuilds had EVERYTHING to do with it.
If you weren't so blinded by the facts that they actually made you "normal" instead of invincible. You wouldn't be so bitter.
And if your that desperate, go get some of the hp increasing badges you can gain a good 10-20% max hp, and you regen/heal yourself on %s so youd be alot stronger there too.
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They are giving city of villains away for free? Hmmm 60 bucks for auto assault and you get a copy of cov. Not too shabby, and it's a great way to get more sells for both.
50 bucks for 1 game, or 60 bucks for 2 games. To me I'd honestly go for the 60 2 game option. Haven't you ever seen marketing gimmicks before? Buy 2 get 1 free! buy this and get this. It's absolutely nothing new.
The storylines don't offer you the closure you want? You don't like missing contacts?
Well the storylines are just branches of missions you do for a contact, and they usually end with a bang, through a hard fight, a AV, a EB or unique maps.
It may not offer you a sense of closure because the game doesn't end, in single player games you finish your series, and your done, happy ending, everyone goes on with their lives. Well I'm sorry but each storyline is just part of your characters life.
What do you want? theres plenty of very intrigueing storylines out there. Be it having a nictus inside of you. Stealing technology and doing trickery through illusions(temp powers and a disguise) to cause a war between groups. And plenty of others.
Yes you choose your contacts, you can choose to NEVER get any contacts in cov past te first starter ones IF you even want to do them. What do you want, to be forced to take certain npcs missions in a certain order, and you can't do the others? Go play guild wars.
You never are unable to get another contact. You can get EVERY contact. If you level too fast, Exemp down with someone close to you and finish up them before you out level them, you could also gather alot of debt so you get longer periods of time to go through missions, whats that? you don't want to slow your leveling? But i thought you wanted to see everything? Can't have both ya'know. If its that important to you it shouldn't bother you. And heck maybe you'll be able to unlock doc buzzsaw as a contact.
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Yes issue 7 was a big big update. And they overestimated what they could do on a reasonable rate. They added a new physics engine(ageix or something similar), mayhem missions, grandville, Recluse's victory, Patron arcs/powers, more badges, more accolades, 2 new powersets, 40-50 content for cov.
I agree i was getting slightly bored because of the lack of new content for that long period. and I7 should have been split into 2 different issues. But it is massive, and it's alot of fun.
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Yes there will be new paid expansions, the devs have stated it on the forums before. But there will never be another "Expansalone" as in another group. The next paid expansion will include a mass amount of content. Its rumoured it will include the rikti homeworld, as well as many other things. There will still be the normal issues.
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For you claiming that regen is so gimp. I dare you to go to the coh forums and say, Why did they nerf regen, it sucks now, i can't do anything. And see the responses you get.
And i'll say it again. Show me another mmo that offers a great storyline, a vast amount of content, never anything repetitive. And don't say guild wars. The PvE of that game is mainly just a single player rpg. Thats why it has a persistant story.
Quote me eve, that game has no content. Eve is made fun because of the people playing it, i've tried it and talked to veterans, its fun and draw is its system itself.
Show me another mmorpg that never has any changes to any of its classes.
DAoC has major nerfs and buffs for its classes all the times. EQ2 went through some major changes. And pretty much everything is balanced from my experiences.
You could say guild wars hasnt had major nerfs, but that game was designed and balanced around pvp at step one. It's entire system is made for balance.
Lineage II constantly has "uber of the week" syndrom
WoW in its past has characters who underperformed, who overperformed, and went through many buffs and changes. Why do you think in EVERY update they totally rehaul the talent trees of classes? Becaue they are preparing for the expansion? or because they weren't well thought out before. "Wand specialization" is just one of the many examples.
Oh look and yet another way to get it free.
https://www.kable.com/pub/gmsc/subDomVillains.asp?src=QCVMMA
Riddle me this Batman, how hard would it have been to make CoV an 'alongside' expansion? Where all the CoV zones were CoH hazard zones, and vice versa. All the CoV archetypes weren't 'villain' archetypes. They were just NEW ARCHETYPES. CoV players and CoH players, instead of having five archetypes to choose from, would have TEN!!
WOULDNT THAT HAVE BEEN GREAT?!
Thats what normal games do.
The developers of CoH stuck to a model of forced grouping through massive grind. You COULD solo your character, but the xp rewards were so poor, and the requirements to level were so large (1,000 white kills to get from 30 to 31. I calculated it. Twice that for 35 to 36.) that you had no choice but to group. And even then, SLOOOOOOW. I have played a lot of other games. Including, yes, WoW. CoH has better mechanics, but WoW has more content, and is more player friendly. If CoH had HALF as many places to explore and hunt as WoW, I wouldnt know how much there was to do in WoW, because I'd still be in CoH.
Instead, they have added little bits of content here and there.
Originally posted by Heru-Ur3005
Originally posted by Bladin
listen people, things get nerfed because they are unbalanced. GET THE HECK OVER IT.Jesus...You act like they made it so your character can't take on = level minions without getting a team. Regen for scrappers despite its nefs still kicks butt and is one of if not the best scrapper pools still.I've grouped with fire tankers recently and they still are effective.Enhancement diversification despite being like omg wtf this sux at first, has actually made characters more fun to play, and allows more customization instead of you take 1 acc 5 dmg or u suxxor!They lowered debt inside missions, raised exp inside missions, made enhancements available on stores instead of having to do contacts.As was said before. heres the options they had instead of nerfing.1. Raise all the other pools/ats/builds up to be stronger, and then balance all the changes they made to every pool in regards to the other pools. And then raise all the npcs to be stronger/harder to be a challenge.2. Do nothing and let overpowered builds stay in play and everyone rolls them and content is trivialized.3. Nerf the overpowered builds down into line with other pools so its still a viable choice, but not strong enough that it totally dominates the others.Whats the best option there? Either way your not going to be able to keep your uberness.ATM i could go make any combination of pools in any AT and it'd still be a decent character compared to the others. Heck i see alot of people who love /kin /empathy on controllers and on mine im /storm and i use it very well with my primary and bring alot to the groups. using freezing rain i can protect squishies from being hit, to get some relief on the tanker while he gets healed. To just control/debuff groups. I can use the gust of wind to knockdown entire enemy groups and keep them in the cornera.And about repitition.... HONESTLY WHAT MMOS ARE YOU PLAYING BECAUSE ID LOVE TO SEE EM.World of warcraft. Oh boy im so glad I'm level 60! i can go explore vast areas! fight exotic enemies!!... oh wait theres nothing there.Level 1, go kill 10 wolves. Level 10, i need some wolf meat!, level 20, those darn wolves need to be put down! Level 30 more wolves... Don't forget cats and boars, if your lucky, maybe a yeti or the same raptors you've been fighting since level 10.I can fight wolves in forests! wolves in deserts! wolves in the snow! weeee....Not to mention the entire end game is a few dungeons over and over for months. Just to get some gear so you can do more dungeons over and over and over. great.Look at DAoC, that game has the most repetitive pve game, and is only redeemed by the pvp. And even that gets boring after awhile.Every mmorpg is the same thing over and over and over.EVERY SINGLE ONE, if you complain about coh/covs repetitive missions, then what mmorpgs "break the mold". From what i've seen.Not AONot AANot DDOnot DNLnot DAOCmaybe eve...never played much of eq1Not EQOANot EQ2Not FFXINot GW(honestly once my guild finally won a guild sigil and got our base i quit because i got bored of the same ol same ol.)Not L2(definately not)maybe mxo.. i had a seizure from the horrible game after my first weekNot ROnot WoWits the same thing over and over with slightly different textures. Stop making flimsy excuses.
ROFL Bladin just pwned this thread
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He did? I read maybe the first two sentences then got lost in the lack of sentence structure. The only thing that stood out was 'get the heck over it". Did he mean like people in SWG?
Exactly Baff. I don't know why people couldn't see the diversity of the ATs as a good thing. A forum poster that is pro Dev mentioned something about how people's perception are out of whack when complaining about the balancing. This poster has always made arguments that were difficult to debate and he was always persisitent. But my point is after reading his post on people's perceptions, made me think that why did ED have to be implented for people to feel they had more choices. It sounds like people's lack of perception is still there and ED won't change it. If they couldn't recognize the beauty of the builds pre I4, then they certainly won't recognize them now and the nerfing will continue.
I've been playing so long and never have thought myself as a skilled player since I'm not that good at PvP and see many others leveling much faster than myself. Recently, I introduced a friend who is normally a console player to the game and was surprised at how much he could not do that I have taken for granted. Though he is almost used to the mouse and keyboard controls(and is actually liking it), I still can't believe the tactics he uses. I try to coach him but as a hard-core gamer he tells me to shut up and let him learn on his own. Yes, I would say he already passed the 30 minute learning curve, but the general tactics of fighting mob types, large mobs and mobs with bosses is still a ways away.l
So, yes skill does play a factor, which is very surprising to me since I consider the gameplay very shallow and not deserving of any serious thought. That said, I do find quite a few of the nerfs unfair. Some were simple and could not be argues such as Smoke Grenade or Perma Invincibilty but at this point in the game, I would prefer the devs concentrate on adding more depth to the game instead of pretending there is still a problem and spending weeks testing and balancing such small issues such as Range Boost so it doesn't buff melee powers.
Personally, I think they have such limited resources they are blowing up balance issues to make it seem like they need a lot of attention and time when in actuality its an easy fix that takes relatively minimal effort. But that's the conspiracy nut in me speaking. So please stop with the effing nerfing, I will gladly pay $30 for some real content(i.e. the coming paid expansion)
So, as far as the topic of this thread, no, I do not think CoX is getting the attention it needs.
Always nice to meet someone with like minded paranoia.
I find them to be lazy also.
Everyone I have ever met who has tried this game has liked it.
100% track record so far.
Same.
However, all of them are sad at the end, if not outright angry.
I am in the sad boat. Sometimes I believe in them, I really WANT to, but...removing my toy in a hobby, where I work 1 month to gain a 5% bonus in strengh and suddenly see a 30% nerf...that would make any achiever sad. The angry folks are non-achievers in my surrounding at the very least.
I7 hit us with another nerf, I don't understand it, but I see the results, they are without argumentation.
(or it might have happened before I7 and since CoV release, but the results are without question, I can't do some stuff I was able to, and so on...this is outright killing my motivation)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
But yeah, the population isn't split evenly into 63k per region. What kind of logic is that?
I think the population is split something like 11 to 5 (server numbers) U.S. to E.U.
Remember that Superheroes are an American cultural theme only.
The lower level CoV zones are packed every night. I play on Freedom and Virute. I see lots of other players on both serers. I look at the server list and see medium loads on every server in prime time. I think the game is doing better than ever.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
But yeah, the population isn't split evenly into 63k per region. What kind of logic is that?
This kind of stupid doom remarks gets old very fast. Its
just fanboys trying to defends something that they know they can’t. We all know
that they population is down. I was there at the start. PI had over 1k of
people in that zone at 12AM. When I left it only around 10 in the area on prime
time.
The numbers I posted was to prove a point. It was not a
direct translation of the population of each region. I figure people would know
this. North America alone used to have 250k. They can’t break the 200k mark
with three regions now. That’s pathetic.
What's pathetic is your claim of doom that people have been making for two years now that has never happened. The only dropoff that's occurred is around the time WoW and EQ2 came out (well, no-brainer there), and the one right about now (which is a drop in the bucket compared to the last one), probably caused by everyone waiting half a year just for I7.
Not only that, but I'd really like to know where you got that 250k figure, because according to mmogchart.com, that's a load.
Oh, and the doom remark was in response to your "Nothing can save this game." quote, hence why I, yknow, quoted it. If anything, populations are higher than launch, the only problem is that it's split about evenly between two games.
The most players COH has ever had was 194,000. This was right after the lauch of COV.
The previous record amount of players was after initial release in the U.S. When COH had 163,053.
(Never underestimate the marketing power of boxes on shelves).
Regardless of the release of any other games, COH subscriber numbers steadily deteriorated over the next 18 months until the release of COV, despite being launched in Europe and doubling it's potenetial audience.
Currently COH/COV subscriptions are falling again, the last recorded figure was 182,250. The current figures for this summer have not been released. I fully expect them to be lower.
Server population should "feel" significantly lower. There are less players per server today, than there were after COH released in 2004. Servers have doubled in size.
Per individual server, there are fewer players spread over a far wider area.
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You can find the subsciber matrices on page 33 of this Shareholder report. http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/nccompany/ir_data_report01.asp