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Unethical roleplaying?
Desperado
Member Posts: 467
This discussion is directed to those out there that actually dare to be imaginative enough to participate in the roleplay aspects of whatever mmorpg you've played/currently playing. Now, I'm not talking about the "roleplay-light" peeps out there that think assimilating the words "Hail" and "Bah" into their otherwise realistic day to day conversation will quality. I'm refering to those of you out there that immerse yourself into whatever fantastic realm your game takes place in. Those that are on the very edge of displaceing their consciousness and emotions and transfering them to their lil' electronic representative on-screen.
Question:
Is it unethical for said heavy roleplayer to play as the opposite sex?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking about the casual "experimental" toon you created just to F* around. Not the ultra hot character you created just so you can get more attention and move the items you have for sell faster. Oh and not the massively strong char you created to mule your extra crap.... I'm talking about your MAIN, the avatar you use to imagine as yourself with all the zest and enthusiasm described in the first paragraph in this post. I've actually noticed some players develope what seemed like a crush on other players, with no idea of the real face behind the pixel sorta say.
Some will ask "Who cares? It's a friggin' game!" Those that do, are not the hardcore peeps that I'm looking to answer this question. The people I'm looking for feedback from would never call their beloved mmo- just a game. Opinions welcomed.
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
Comments
Good question. This has always bothered me in MMO's because how can you know if the female char you see running around has a female at the other end? I hate to say it, but they probably can get things sold faster than males
I can't really say it's unethical but it would be nice if you could know that no one is just faking.
So....No, I can't say it's unethical because people have the right to choose and do whatever they wish, but please don't.
::Yordo::
EQ2 Guild Search
UXO, Lineage 2, KO, Guild Wars, Dragon Empires, City of Heroes
You know this is a funny topic, I personally feel that you should roleplay your sex. However thats my opinnion and how I do things. I have seen some expertly roleplay women, mostly elven, by a friend of mine. He really gets into the female, elf, druid. If you can roleplay it there shouldn't be a problem as afterall roleplaying is exactly that. It doesn't matter who you really are, its more about take a persona, any persona at that, and trying to get into the mind of that persona and acting it out. So in the end it should not matter whether your male or female in rl.
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Bartle Test #234954
SKE
Socializer: 66 %
Explorer: 60%
Killer: 60%
Achiever: 13%
===================
Bartle Test #234954
SKE
Socializer: 66 %
Explorer: 60%
Killer: 60%
Achiever: 13%
Speaking as someone who once played in a pen-and-paper RP campaign where my character started out as a good-aligned male and ended the campaign as an evil-aligned female, I obviously don't think it's an ethical problem.
I would hazard a guess and say that anyone who DOES have a problem with it is more than likely hard-up for a date and was hoping you (as in "you" I mean if you're roleplaying a woman) were the solution to that problem. Saying that isn't just a random flame, either. It's a mentality that I've seen a lot of in the past 11+ years online, games or otherwise. (people thinking every person they meet, who is apparently of the opposite sex, is the next [or, often first] potential score)
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-- Death to picture-sigs. --
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Roleplaying, people do that in games?
While we all were masks in life and in games, I don't see how gender bending is unethical. From a roleplaying point of view we don't know how gnomes would act any more than a member of the opposite sex (other than gnomes may have irrational fears of gardens).
So have fun, that's it all about.
Now if you setting up dates with male players in RL or something... maybe that would be unethical.
-=-=-=-=-
"The beauty of MMORPGS is the merging of gaming and chatrooms. EQ is really just AOL merged with a fantasy game." - billus8
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
Unethical? How on earth does ethics figure into the idea of roleplay?
I'm going to imagine that instead of a question of "ethics" you are instead asking a question of "propriety". Is it proper to play an avatar of the opposite sex?
The answer is: of course it's proper. It's a role...you are exercising your imagination. If it's an opposite gender, that pushes you further away from reality and more into a role. That is a great fascilitator of pushing the boundary of imagination.
It is definitely not unethical, and you answered the question yourself: It's a roleplaying game. How can you be roleplaying a certain type of character if you can't choose the gender of that character?
I played EQ for 2 years, playing both male and female characters. For most of those two years I was a member a roleplaying guild, and was very heavy into it. For certain roles, a male may have to play a female character, and the same goes for females. For roleplaying purposes, it is perfectly ethical.
Morality only comes into play once the roleplaying aspect has disappeared. If a male character creates a female character for the sole purpose of looking at the back or front side of the character, it is slightly unethical, but at least it's amusing. On the other hand, if a male creates a female character to have cyber sex with a GM to get special privileges, I see that as highly unethical. A roleplayer normally wouldn't overstep that boundary anyway, because then their stepping out of role.
Ethical issues are all in the eye of the beholder anyway, but for roleplaying purposes I see no problem with a person playing a character of the opposite gender, wether male or female, as long as they are roleplaying.
Killer 100% Socializer 40% Explorer 33% Achiever 27%
Lets see this in another point of view, that as more commonly has happened to me or several occasions...
I role-play a female toon, and, everyone role-plays, now imagine that some other guy starts taking things a bit more seriously and takes a bit out of Role-play, what do you do?
a) Stick with Role-play while the other guy is not and hope that his fantasy wears off?
b) Tell him in private that you're a guy and ask to lay off your back?
c) Take things more seriously and foul the guy for your own intentions?
Well I can say that I've tried all three options, and all of them, the most unethical is certainly c), I'm not proud and not even ashamed, but will I do it again...NO.
Since that last time that I performed c) I only play males, on rare occasion I play a female toon but I keep it in a low profile and don't get close to anyone, people tend to think I'm an hermit, since if the option is available its always an elder women, not some 3lv3n h0t ch1ck.
My two cents!
Thanks
EDIT: Some typos there!
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
Ok, if it were really someone truly using the Roleplaying aspect of the game, then their matters are of not for me to care about, they can take the liberty of doing it if they please. But the issue at hand, is that some males tend to be females so they can exploit the feminine side, in which it is very prone for a vast amount of males to give lots of things to females, more or less so they could get on the girl's good side. (then of course some wish to marry, why you would marry in an MMORPG, no idea, but if it is for roleplaying, feel free.) That is what ticks me off, that people exploit being a female so they can get free stuff? Grow up, get your stuff by leveling, not portraying a false character, that is ludacrous.
I don't really have a problem with people playing the opposite sex as their main. I know a number of people who do. (Mostly male playing female, but I've discovered that there are more females playing males than you'd think-- they just don't 'fess up right away.) I think it is sort of important if you notice that someone is getting too attached to your character to remind them (OOC) that it's fine for them to play out a story of your characters getting attached to each other, but that you are probably not the person they imagine you to be. If they are just playing it out (IC), that's fine. If they are confusing your character with you, you have to tell them what the deal is. It's never right to take advantage of people and blame it on roleplaying.
I have a funny flipside problem with this. I am a RL female with a fairly masculine style of thinking/communicating, so people always think I am lying when I tell them that I am female for real. Late in my EQ career, I started playing male characters, and noone ever asked me if I was really a woman.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Maybe it's the exhaustion from all the extra stress I've dealt with this week, but was there actually a point to your quoting of my post..?
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-- Death to picture-sigs. --
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I've played as a female before. I had no problem whatsoever doing it.
The reason most folks get into trouble is because they try and play as themselves but in a fantasy world when in reality role playing is steping OUT of yourself and into the role of another. I'm a nice guy in real life but I very much enjoy playing nasty mean spirited characters. Is that unethical? It's the same thing really. Just playing something you are not in real life. Thats real role playing to me. Not just acting like Reebdoog with an axe but acting like The Honorable Gavin Griswold, Paladin of the Realm or The Infamous Tyvis, murderer and highwayman. Playing anothe sex is no different.
Im kinda weird htis way, Guys playing girls is usually for two reason (usually, no always)
cause they are perverts (thats as far into that one as im gona go)
cause they just want to look at there avatar
sometimes just cause they want attention
Where as when a Girl plays a guy (im usuing some of my friends as examples)
They want to be left alone and just play
They are sick of pervert guys
They dont want to be schmood and stuff or harassed by guys
I know thats why a few of my friends online use guy chars... they're just sick of having to deal with guys ingame.
So really im a little iffy about guys playing girls, but with havings friends who are girls who play guys online i see no problem with it, because they are doing for decent reasons, not for *cough* reasons (again thats just a majority I feal, not all)
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
That's cause you play with immature people who aren't actually role playing. This question is talking about role playing...not immature idiots.
-Cohh-
-MMORPG.com Staff-
-Cohh-
www.Carnage-Guild.com
Desperado, is there a point to you being atagonistic?
Personally, a guy playing a chick ingame is rather nasty and creepy. Now maybe if you make it known to everyone your a guy RPing a chick, and that "chick" doesnt start coming onto you, its fine. But I think somone gave an example of P&P RPing a evil female....well, everyone knew you were really a guy.
I met this one guy once in AC2, he said that he wasnt really a chick, but the reason why he played them was because 1. He preferred to stare at a females backside all day, considering the game is 3rd person. 2. He wanted a RPing challenge.
People like that arent really creepy, the ones that worry me are the sicko's
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I'm compelled to echo my colleagues that feel role playing is about being a character different from your RL-self; gender included.
If we held to the thought that we could only play our RL gender, then we'd have to apply that to playing our RL race, too....looks like we would have a bunch of humans running around in Lineage 2, World of Warcraft, UXO, etc.....Imagine how fun that would be to get a new game and have to be the same person you are at work....yuck!....
There is no moral or ethical problem here unless it hurts other people.
Hardcore RPing is a rare thing, but if players stick to hardcore RP, then there should be no issue at all. The fact is that, despite all good intentions and even in the most strictly enforced roleplaying environment, people are going to get friendly with one another and conversations will drift away from, "Well met, good sir knight! How goes thy battle?" to more personal, OOC type exchanges.
If a male player is roleplaying his male character and discovers the female avatar with whom he has been flirting is really a 200 lb bricklayer named Butch, he should be upset only if he was expressing or implying more than just that of his character. In other words, he was really trying to impress the perceived cutie at the keyboard of the female character. If the flirtation started and ended at the character, then it should not matter who was controlling the female.
My main in EQ for 2 years was a female necromancer and it happened quite by accident. I was experimenting with different races and classes and the name I chose for my necro sounded more female, so I made a dark elf woman. I took her to level 13 before I ever died and was then committed. I did have several male characters "make passes" at my character, but not being a roleplayer (at least on this server), I never acknowledged it. I do know some guys who purposefully made female characters and hammed it up to get free loot from males characters, and doggoned if it didn't work.
But we're talking hardcore RPing here and therein lies the answer. Roleplaying is just that...playing a role, and if you are true to your character, his or her actions should be in and of that character, not you as the player. That character may actually be unethical and this begs the question: If your character is unethical, are you, by extension, unethical?
But that's another thread...
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate. (written on the SW:G CD)
A: 73% E: 73% S: 40% K: 13%
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Old timer.
____________________
-- Death to picture-sigs. --
____________________
The key to what your saying that throws me off is "Heavy Roleplaying". The fact that many of the dedicated roleplayers who really create a world of their own within the game world participate in such events as "mock weddings" and such, well that makes it creepy.
If I were playing a pen and paper RPG and there was a guy who was playing a female charecter I would be a bit freaked out. That ofcourse is my opinion. It really counts for nothing. I can assure you if I am fully RP'ing in a game world and a female avatar that I am communicating with ( not trying to score) is really a guy. It would definately throw me off. And for the record, I am married, and have no desire to "score" in a virtual world.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
"A good man knows his limits, a Great man knows he has none...."
My husband used to feel that way, until I turned him to the dark side. Just try it, I said. You'll like it, I said. Slowly but surely, his roster went from 100% male to 75% female. We roleplayed sisters. We roleplayed lesbians. Sometimes I would play a male character and be his female character's boyfriend. It was all kinds of fun!
He freaked people out because his primary character was a really gruff, grumpy, MALE dwarf cleric, and then his second highest level character was a sweet-but-sassy human female mage. People just couldn't believe that they were the same person. It cracked me up when a friend found out that the girl he was talking to was my husband, and said, "Man, what's with the skirt? I never would have guessed you'd play a girl." And then he found out about the other 5 girls on my husband's roster. *giggle*
I used to associate my real self with my game self, and I would try to make characters that expressed me. That was fun for a time. I think I would have been uncomfortable being a male character then. When I started exploring roles outside of myself and who I am (or THINK I am), it really started to get interesting. I don't think that you can say that roleplaying is necessarily a great tool for self-discovery, but I think I have learned more about myself from playing the hard stretch characters than I ever did from building my characters around what is most like me. If nothing else, you tend to run into your own limitations when you are really reaching for something outside of your own experience.
(Yes, I realize this is another topic entirely. Shame on me! No new topics! And I realize that slaying dragons is outside of everyone's experience. I was talking about a more personal, human level of experience. I am not a man in real life. I am not outgoing or strong. I am not very serious most of the time. But I can play those things, or I can TRY to...)
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
-=-=-=-=-
"The beauty of MMORPGS is the merging of gaming and chatrooms. EQ is really just AOL merged with a fantasy game." - billus8
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
I have played female characters before, and like it or not, female characters can get over sometimes. Guy players are nicer to girl players on the average. It is a fact, whether you like it or not. I have no desire to get into a "relationship" with some wierd person on the other side of a character in the game, so it is not a problem for me either way. Does not bother me one bit whether guys are playing as girls or vice versa.
As long as guys are dumb enough to be nicer to girl characters, female characters will get over. And as long as that is hapenning, there is no reason why a smart player (girl or guy) should not take advantage of it.