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Again i ask why SoE hate and not LA
hercules
Member UncommonPosts: 4,925
You see people spam i never buy a SoE game again because they ruined 3 years of work .
Well hello there its SoE/LA.
The reason you see the SoE trolls not touch LA is because they are hippocrites plain and simple.
To say i bycott LA products simply means no more future star wars game for them as LA owns the rights to star wars..
So ofc they sit around thinking hey there will be a KOTOR or SWG2 mmorpg so i will eventually have to deal with LA once again and its pointless bashing them.
this famous quote is from a LA producer meaning they were quite aware of any chances going on and think no one here can deny LA knows every change happening in SWG
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A Senior Game Designer at LucasArts is quoted in the New York Times in an article on their dumbing down of Star Wars Galaxies. In order to appeal to a broader player base, LucasArts believes that:
"We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes i am sure we will have answers like i had bad experience with SoE before.Well considering SoE has 3 or so other mmorpg under its belt and has never made a major revamp in this games.It had nerfs and boost but never anything that affects general gameplay at this scale and imho not even close to the archer nerfs of DAoC.So if in 7 years SoE never made an overhaul of their other games maybe its worth considering that LA brought up the idea in the first place.Since LA leaves the CSR to SoE it would fall on SoE to answer any question on the changes and put them in the frontline but LA is well behind the changes .So if you really feel SWG changes robbed you of your time and effort time to start saying you bycott SoE and LA.But then again that would be too much for jedi wannabies i am sure.
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This statement has no meaning .And its not owned they own it.I never saw a statement that LA sold the licence to Star wars to anyone.
Only thing i can extract from that statement is exactly what i said LA owns star wars and people cannot bash LA simply because they have to deal with them again if they want to weild the lightsabers which smells hippocrite.
If you are moaning for your lost time bycott LA too as they were 50% of your lose.
Explain how LA had no involvement in SWG changes.
That looks like the McNtyre(sp?) quote... I'm not a member so I can't see the article in your link.
Anyway she was in marketing and that has absolutly nothing to do with game design. Her job was to put words on what was coocking in the kitchen and we all know that it was porrage...
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
If SOE had taken care of the game from the get go LA wouldnt have had to step in with their "Gaming for idiots" guide to game design. They both suck but SOE gets the brunt of the hate since they are right there. And if they ever said: "It was LA's idea! We didnt want to!" Then LA would give SOE total shit and that person would lose their job.
Never talk shit about your boss...especially to the customer.
Edit: Both=Boss. Its early /blush
"A Senior Game Designer at LucasArts " is
1)not someone in marketing but a erm designer
2)works for LA confirming that changes made to SWG pass thru or even originate from LA as well.
Exactly SoE has the unfortunate buisness of been the CSR.Meaning if LA developers say hey this new changes are here to stay then it falls on SoE CSR to talk to the players and say "its here to stay"
Take EQ2 for instance.Many of the game changes was a direct result of listening to players.Recently on their fan faire 3 things came out -
1)no more new levels
2)they wanted to see more of old EQ lands
3)crafting to become as useful as pre KoS
4)return of religion
Guess what.Next expansion major crafting buffing,religions return thru a story arc,faywder from old EQ1 is the setting.
All direct results of player requests.So SoE do listen to its players and adjust.Maybe its LA holding the leash in SWG .
So there is no name in the article... then NY Times thought she was a Sr game designer...
In some interview when NGE was released those were her exact words anyway /shrug
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend. Those that come in by the door; those that come in by the window"
Oh we hate LEC equally. Not only did they wreck SWG, but also KOTOR 2.
Haden Blackman, the first (and promising) LEC representative that helped develope the game, ended up in the gutter after he turned the whole community against himself with a few phrases during an interview.
He, the LEC representative, basicly said "we piss on the continuity and Star Wars lore/story/background. Jedi for everyone! And if you don't want to play jedi, fight alongside one! It's fun promise!"
As for miss Nancy "Reading is hard, m'kay" McIntyre? She was a PR dep leader, and pretty much got promoted away from ever touching a game again.... Heh, no wonder after her mouth opened, and what came out, showed that she hadnt played a computer game in her life... American and international business tactics..If they kiss ass and are yes men/women, promote them if they mess up.
But as for whom to blame the most? SOE ofcourse, they developed the game, they changed the game... They are the guys that allows LEC to destroy the game with their really bad ideas... SOE has no balls, and the current crop of developers and lead designers are either rookies or coders that never should have been in the gaming industry... When they won't defend the game from LEC, and don't know how to code themselves out of a wet and rotten paperbag, and have never had a original idea in their life, aaaaand don't know how to make sound and good plans, cuz their heads would explode if they thought about what to do next week....Then we're allowed to blame SOE.
No love for LEC, but SOE is the jellybelly coward that alllows LEC to take command, without a fight.
Its LA licence so they have first say.Try joining a company and rising to be co CEO with the founder of the company.You still get second say no matter what.
Who knows what happened behind the close doors before they announced the changes.
Its LA licence so they have first say.Try joining a company and rising to be co CEO with the founder of the company.You still get second say no matter what.
Who knows what happened behind the close doors before they announced the changes.
IF the original design team, with PROPER management had spent their time fixing the bugs and correcting the issues in the original game, none of this other garbage would have happened or been necessary. LEC deserves its share of the blame for the current fiasco, BUT it was $OE that really screwed all this up. All in search of the mighty dollar. It was $OE that started the lies. It was $OE that continues those lies even now. It is $OE that still has real project management issue.
For what it's worth, I don't see me buying anything from any Lucas Arts franchise. Not after the way they and $OE were so willing to screw their current customers.
Well,
LA was quite successfull in the past. LA is ruled by Lucas, the guy who create SW.
SoE did improve EQ, but even that is argued by some folks pretending non-sense about Verant.
SoE success are scarses...and they are already hated by many folks prior SWG. Who do you think gave me that raiding-hatred? I am not a SoE hater however, but some peoples will hate a company rather than an aspect of the game, maybe because some of their friends enjoy this aspect, so they are more humans than me in a sense. Me I don't mind telling my friends who happen to enjoy raiding that they are enjoying an unfair feature, they laugh and enjoy it all the more because what I said is truth on this point.
Personnally I think that CoN was a bright success, but SoE is not the first hand in this project and many persons dislike it, especially the sequel that was rushed.
As much as I want to boggle and hug SoE, they pretty much recolt what they deserve.
Maybe not on the SWG alone, but in it long history, yet it is painful to tell them that because they are very kind, very human, very listening...in fact, it would do them better if they would listen a little less to players. Stopping to listen to minorities and focusing on the majorities of THEIR customer and the general player base without screwing their existing player-base is long due.
EQ is way to trapped in raiding to change it course now, it would only destroy it, like Vador turning back to the Force in the end, it destroy him. EQ has to keep going that way. It is a shame that EQ2 went more or less on the same path, but well, they will prolly release other products eventually...prolly...and hopefully they will not all redo the stuff that was done, including the mistakes, new products have to adapt to the market in a better way. Anyway...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Because I've loved LucasArts games since Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis.
Their sin here is one of omission, they should have done more to make the game succeed by lending time and talent or whatever.
SOE, who knows what the flyer is in their heads, but you see it at its worst in the development cycle of this game. Whatever they used to be, they aren't anymore.
If you play it you can tell this. As you get close to the end of the game the content gets thinner, and the storyline gets that much weaker and flimsier. I saved just before the end and played through several of the endings and was left saying "What? How did that happen? That makes no sense in context of the game."
LA is often very demanding on their products, and they will often shorten times, or not allow for push-backs to ensure the game is better. This was very evident in KOTOR2. I will admit I did like the first 1/2 to 3/4 of KOTOR2, but after that it just started going downhill.
So sure LA deserves some blame as to what happened, however SOE is the real incompetent people here. Just look at the new expertise thing for meaning. They stated several times there would be "new Jedi abilities" and that you would get 1.5 trees, once again two blatant lies. So that's why SOE gets the hatred.
Like i said SoE has 3 other mmorpg yet have never made a U turn on them.So why is it only happening to SWG which is also the only game in the SoE stables that is joint ownership.
That joint ownership is, in my opinion, the true problem. I mean when you think about it do you put your best people on a project where you have to pay out a fee to be a part of it or do you put them on the projects that you own outright to maximize profits.
This kind of thinking can be seen just by looking at the development of the other soe games in comparison to swg. I also suspect that since the subscription fees are very likely pooled that the financial state of swg is being nicely masked, and if it was put out to stand on it's own right now it would fold very rapidly.
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Well being SMed himself stated that SOE was repsonsible for the NGE and not LA I would guess that is where a lot fot he hate comes from..
To coomment on the Article if its the one with the Uncle Owen comment then its from Nancy Mccyntire, who was in charge of their marketing.
LA did have a hand in this as they , supposedly, have to approve most of the changes that SOE makes.. The fact the game has failed so badly and LA has not done a thng to stop it speaks volumes imho..
They are both equal in blame.. But because SOE is the one running the show, acoording to smed, that is who gets the most vocal criticism... LA forums already state to take the chat over to the offical SWG forums..
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
sorry got to demand a credible link for this otherwise its total bull.I hardly see a SoE CEO or anyone from SoE say they have sole responsibilty for a joint venture whether it be good or bad.
Until i get good link thats total BULL S H I T.
Seriously. You have your little opinion and you've been attacking anyone that gives examples to dispute it.
Nancy MacIntyre is the one who said they wanted to, "Kill, loot treasure, repeat." She was a PR person at LA, she recently got promoted to VP. She also said there was, "too much reading" in the old system.
Jeff Freeman, who is a developer for SOE, stated in his blog that he was the brainchild of the NGE. People have been giving plenty of examples of why SOE gets a lot of the blame. They asked for it.
You want to see links? Go find them. You've been given plenty of information to find them yourself.
FYI, I don't hold LA blameless for this mess. I haven't bought an LA game since NGE went live and I won't as long as NGE is the version of SWG available for PC. For a Star Wars fan that sucks, but I'm not going to support LA while they allow this to continue.
In the future, try checking your facts before making your generalizations and attacking anyone that disagrees with you.
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I'm not fond of either one of them...especially concerning SWG. Much of my blame for SWG lays at LAs feet and not SOEs. I left before the CU or NGE so I didn't see what changes were made though I have read about them and thought it made a bad game somehow worse. The CU and NGE would have certainly killed the game for me had I still been playing. I quit my account about three months in, I just couldn't take anymore.
The day it was released it was a mere shadow of what was promised to us. I hung around the forums though much of the last 6-12 months before release and had read about it before that. Throughout the beta we were told they were removing things all togeather or that other 'features' that were slated for release would get implimented later (many never made it). Other things they failed to mention were being changed or left out entirely. Personally I was very disapointed in the game and broken promises and couldn't help but consider it a train wreck with people holding on simply because it was Star Wars and they had waited so long and much like they are doing now, they put up with it and rationalized and justified it.
People talk of SOE breaking promises... they were simply following the trend of the game designers who made an art of it before launch. SOE didn't do anything that LA wasn't already doing.
sorry got to demand a credible link for this otherwise its total bull.I hardly see a SoE CEO or anyone from SoE say they have sole responsibilty for a joint venture whether it be good or bad.
Until i get good link thats total BULL S H I T.
Okedoke.. I will do my best... First off Jeff Freeman from SOE was the originator of the NGE thinking... His blog has since been removed but the basics can be found here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/82276
They took the NGE concpet and they sold it to Smedely, who then took it to LA, found here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=874858#M874858
Also, if i remeber correctly Smedely stated on another forum, and im attempting to lcoate that link, where he went on to say it was SOe who pushed the NGE, and not LA. They, LA just signed off on it when SOE swore it would be succesful.
If you go through the SWG forum archives, using SMED as the search, you will find the famous Friday excahnge where smed answered questions jsut about all day on the Rumors about LA pulling the Liscence. Among those little gems I found an article where Smed stated Auto aim would never be coming back into the game.
Hopefully that is the begining of the end for the NGE. They are starting to bring back stuff SMed himself stated would not be coming back. Hopefully this will lead to the announcement that the NGE is a failure. If you want more proof btw about SMed and SOE and the NGE, just do a yahoo search and you can find more info about it.
Out of curisosity what is your deal with LA anyways?
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.