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Slowly getting Mildly Anoyed
M_Doomhammer
Member Posts: 33
Not that i care much, but i keep reading the rating comments everytime i pop in here , wich is about once or twice a week (i play this game after all ^^)
And aside from some sound comments that do not like the game and state so in a researched and intelligent manner, i get the feeling theres some forumwhoring "Dis-Squad" consisting of members that recently finished their brain extraction process.
I mean, no problem if you dont like the game, and you give it a lower rating. BUT, live with the fact others think it deserves a higher rating than you in your all-encompassing wisdom know to be the only true value fit for the game. Also, dont make yourself look more stupid than you are by ranting about how boring that game is and all you can bring forth as argument is that mining sucks.
T'was stated over and over again that EVE is NOT a game to spoonfeed you content. And if you decide to go mining thats your personal choice. Just because you are not creative to think about anything else than mining and grinding is less a display of this games simpleness, but more of your own uncreativity.
The second type of Dis-Squad member (not any less brain-amputated than the first breed) seems to come from another Gaming section of this site. They seem to have taken note in EVE being rated over their personal pet mmorpg out there, and therefore feel compelled to spout some senseless drivel and give it a 1 rating across the board, along with some witty comment that the game they are championing for deserves a much higher ranking than EVE.
To them i have to say, grow up, this site isnt a freeking competition on wich game got the best rating. If you didnt honestly give a game a try (and in case of eve, stating you did so by playing some hours total during the 14 day trial is NOT enough) really doesnt qualify you to give any profundly researched rating. I wont go to the guildwars/wow/whatever section of this site and start a rating there either with the aim of lowering its total score (allthough i could do so for some games, as i played them "through" - ever thought how sad it is this can be done in a mmorpg world? )
Now, i know this post probably will not archive much, aside from atract some flames from your 12yo joe-average member from the aforementioned groups, (mind you , i am thinking of 12 yo not in the way of biological age, but more in line with a certain uneducated , undeveloped minds set, frequently found even in grown ups)
However, if it only manages to make ONE of their members to stop for a moment and THINK about it, i have succeeded on my quest for world dom... .er.. the betterment of the online gaming comunity. Thanks for reading to the end.
Comments
It's the average of these scores that give the final overall and in my view it's a very accurate view of the game. If people were really trying to drag the game down it's bad scores would be closer to the 5 or 6 range, and would bring the overall down a lot lower than it is.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Eve rating is an over evaluated note.
If a game that has 10 players that like the game enough to rate it 9, it gets a 9.
If another game has 10, 000 players but only 4000 rate it 9 and the rest rate it 7 it will come in at 7.5 or so.
Does that mean the 9 game is better?
The ratings of games is a great way to guage how much the people who play it, like it. It isn't relative to the quality of the game. Keep in mind people bid on synthetic snow on Ebay. Also called styrofoam. Make up your own mind..
...
Does that make a good enough reason to say its not better?
The simple fact of the matter is that while the ratings on this site are nothing more than a popularity contest, the value they get doesn't take the number of players (or voters) into account. The question remains, do you think this is important?
Lets compare two games, EVE and DAOC: one Scifi, one Fantasy; both are usually recommended by members of this board at the same time as alternatives; both were released around the same time, both have similarly sized player bases at this moment.
MMORPG Staff Rating: EVE - 8.3, DAOC - 8.4 (keep in mind these were set at time of release and are not current)
User Rating: EVE - 8.3, DAOC - 8.1 (as of now, 2006.07.05)
Submitted Votes: EVE - 4,350, DAOC - 2,644
And interestingly enough, if you look at the comments, you see the same amount of trolls and fans in the DAOC reviews as you do in EVE's. Even WOW, with its 6,364 comments has the same situation.
The only conclusion that I can make from all this is that 1) people suck, and 2) the number of voters has no effect on the resulting rating - a Statistics course will teach you that (the limit for producing reliable statistics from a given population is about 40 samples, these reviews have thousands).
The only reason that people are making a big deal about this... is that they think it is a big deal and must be made a bigger deal by ranting all over the forums about it.
well. to be honest, i am not offended by people post low ratings... dont get me wrong there. What i was adressing is the fact that there are many ratings that do not even try to sound like the one giving it has put any decent effort into getting into the game.
and as Nu11uS put it, it seems that might very well be a more global thing to happen (in truth, i didnt even bother to look at other games ratings on this page so far, but it seems he is right now that i do.)
so again. I am totally fine with someone giving the game a low rating (even though i disagree about it earning it, but these ratings reflect personal impressions someone got when trying/playing that game) i just cannot stand how some are obviously fighting some holy wars and crusades to make the game appear bad (and someone seeking info about a game wont dig past the first 2 pages of rating comments most of the time)
i know little can be done about it still i am hoping at least some of these guys rethink that attitude and stop spaming this (and other) game''s rating pages.
You know, I could say the same though about threads like this one. I mean, if the low ratings didn't offend you, why come here and write out such a rant?
The assertion that you get offended at some reviews because the players haven't "put any decent effort into getting into the game," is just stupid. How much effort is "enough" effort? If the trial is not enough effort, then CCP is retarded for making it only two weeks, with the limitations placed on it like it is.
The truth is, they don't owe you squat, me squat, EVE squat, or CCP squat. If there is anyone to blame for their displeasure, its probably us, because we are the ones that are supposed to provide the content, and are by the looks of things with the criticisms lately, failing miserably. Would you keep playing something that sucked for you? If it did suck, and someone gave you the opportunity to review it, would you say it was good, even though you feel it sucked?
It happens all over man, but I don't let the hype and the criticisms get to me. If I am having fun, then I'm having fun.
Here's the thing though. If you are totally fine with things, you wouldn't be here posting some rant. That's alright, but I gotta say that its making us EVE players look like idiots and fanatics, who are trying to fight against people who made the effort to install the client, create an account, attempt to play, and for whatever reason, did not like it. The more I see what EVE players are like, the more I get the sense that it is not the critics who are the fanatics, but the EVE fans, who cannot take criticism, because of this "world domination" trip, or some would-be pagan viking mythic struggle against WoW or some crap.
Its getting old man, and its making me feel a little embarassed to say I play EVE.
EVE players are touchy about this kind of thing, because on these boards, EVE players cannot control the dissent like they can on the EVE boards. People can speak their minds here and not worry about reprisals against their character in the game. Yes you'll get some things here that we don't like, or we don't think is true. Also, perhaps they are telling us something that we should take seriously, and we refuse to hear it, because from our perspective, everything is working fine.
All in all though, the game speaks for itself, for good and for bad. No board posts, no reviews, and no hype is going to sell or sink a game. We have been down that road in too many games to believe that crap.
The best thing we can do as EVE players is to not make rants on the boards when people say things we don't like to hear, but to make sure each person who takes the free trial has a good experience, and each person who subs for a month ends up subbing for two. EVE puts the game in our hands as players, which means we have the power to make people post good things, and not just rants.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
First, its good to know your're capable of mature responses
you had me worried there for a bit after your first post
Well, actually I AM fine with Eve. Its just that there are times when I cannot go online, thats when I am skimming through all kinds of forums, and post my thoughts. I am no fanatic, nor do i try to fight against people who don't like Eve. Its a niche game, so no way everyone can like it. And no, i have no problem with criticism either.
What I have a problem is if someone takes the time to rate a game and then puts something like
or
or even
as the reason why the game deserves a bad rating.
The first two simply lack any reason why they think the game deserves the rating they put in (and after all, when they rate they have to have something in mind when they click the numbers for all the categories, right? so what hinders them to share their thoughts about the various points you have to rate?)
The 3rd example is even more troublesome, as it shows that the poster doesnt have the slightest idea on how polls work. i mean, he thinks it should be 7/10, but instead of giving it that rating, he tries to pull the average rating to what he percieves as the "right" rating by artificially giving it a 1 across the board. No matter that mmorpg.com probably will filter out a 1 across the board vote, its the mindset behind such an action i find troublesome really.
Now, there ARE ratings that try at constructive criticism you just have to search for them:
is a good example. He lists what he thinks has potential, what from his point of view is bad and is done with it.
Meh, maybe now you get my drift. It isnt so much about Critics, its about how they voice their Points that I am anoyed at. Maybe its simply the way internet comunities work nowadays and how they communicate and i am simply too old to get used to it, who knows.
well... if the reviews/ratings were not there to care about we could have mmorpg.com remove the ra(n)ting section all together, right? i mean, it would safe them storage space, and according to your advice, they are of no use anyways, yes?
now, maybe you try again, reroll your "Create witty response" and you might come up with more than a namecalling one liner. There are others in this thread that went from a initial 1 to at least a 16 on their second try.
TBH dude who gives a shit what other people think of the game? A rating wouldn't put me off a game if I wanted to try it just like a review from a professional critic wouldn't. Anyone worth their salt researches a game that they will play if they are unsure if it is the right game for them.
End of the day it is just numbers.....and remember this is teh INTARWEB where the largest populations of retards reside.....just ignore and carry on in life :P
What about the fanbois that keep making new account so they can rate the game again?
That annoys me
Why?
The rating used to make me proud. Then I realized, kind of like living in America, all you get is shit for being on top. Too many kiddies see the rating and want to play the game because it is ranked number one, and they turn around and hate its complexity compared to every other game they've played. Too many fanatics for other games see the rating and can't stand to see that another video game is "better" than theirs. Too many fanatics for this game do the same thing.
It's kind of like people that play Counter Strike or Battlefield and hack while they're playing. It doesn't really piss me off too much because at the end of the day, I'm better than they are, and they know they've done it and that people elsewhere believe it is childish. That's why nobody ever owns up for doing it. Of course, I have this strange feeling that folks in the Eve crowd participate in the "create a new account" event rarely. Why? Just talk about the game's rating on the Eve-O site. Nobody cares. In fact, most people will flame you for wanting the rating boosted or strengthened.
Yes, it is very childish to create a rating and not give good reasons as to why a game sucks, but it happens. If Eve's rating is important to you just remember this, bad reviews are not a new thing to the Eve rating and yet... it stays on top. It has been on top for quite some time. People are entitled to their opinions, and the more a bad review (ie: straight 1's with a one sentence "review") bother you... the more people will want to do it.
Rating or not, Eve is by far the greatest game I've ever played. It doesn't need to be #1 on this site for me to know that.
And yes, I will still flame the hell out of morons that come to our forums talking non-sense. That's just fun.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
You know, I could say the same though about threads like this one. I mean, if the low ratings didn't offend you, why come here and write out such a rant?
The assertion that you get offended at some reviews because the players haven't "put any decent effort into getting into the game," is just stupid. How much effort is "enough" effort? If the trial is not enough effort, then CCP is retarded for making it only two weeks, with the limitations placed on it like it is.
The truth is, they don't owe you squat, me squat, EVE squat, or CCP squat. If there is anyone to blame for their displeasure, its probably us, because we are the ones that are supposed to provide the content, and are by the looks of things with the criticisms lately, failing miserably. Would you keep playing something that sucked for you? If it did suck, and someone gave you the opportunity to review it, would you say it was good, even though you feel it sucked?
It happens all over man, but I don't let the hype and the criticisms get to me. If I am having fun, then I'm having fun.
Here's the thing though. If you are totally fine with things, you wouldn't be here posting some rant. That's alright, but I gotta say that its making us EVE players look like idiots and fanatics, who are trying to fight against people who made the effort to install the client, create an account, attempt to play, and for whatever reason, did not like it. The more I see what EVE players are like, the more I get the sense that it is not the critics who are the fanatics, but the EVE fans, who cannot take criticism, because of this "world domination" trip, or some would-be pagan viking mythic struggle against WoW or some crap.
Its getting old man, and its making me feel a little embarassed to say I play EVE.
EVE players are touchy about this kind of thing, because on these boards, EVE players cannot control the dissent like they can on the EVE boards. People can speak their minds here and not worry about reprisals against their character in the game. Yes you'll get some things here that we don't like, or we don't think is true. Also, perhaps they are telling us something that we should take seriously, and we refuse to hear it, because from our perspective, everything is working fine.
All in all though, the game speaks for itself, for good and for bad. No board posts, no reviews, and no hype is going to sell or sink a game. We have been down that road in too many games to believe that crap.
The best thing we can do as EVE players is to not make rants on the boards when people say things we don't like to hear, but to make sure each person who takes the free trial has a good experience, and each person who subs for a month ends up subbing for two. EVE puts the game in our hands as players, which means we have the power to make people post good things, and not just rants.
i disagree with you beatnik59. i dont care if people think EVE is a good or bad game, if they like pvp or not, or if they find the game to be really boring. that is fine.
what i cant stand is when someone that hasnt played the game, or that just played the trial comes here and claims that the skill system is unfair and new players cant compete with veteran players. or that there is nothing to do but mine all day.
those are the post i can not ignore, even more when they are posted by well known members of this site, that know themselves they are talking bull**** but do it just for the sake of it.
I didn't even rate the game since I never played it.
But a lot of players told me that there are some EVE-Bois that push the rating with new accounts.
That's just unfair in my opinion.
People should make honest and objective ratings/reviews (no matter if you like it or hate it).
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
The best thing we can do as EVE players is to not make rants on the boards when people say things we don't like to hear, but to make sure each person who takes the free trial has a good experience, and each person who subs for a month ends up subbing for two. EVE puts the game in our hands as players, which means we have the power to make people post good things, and not just rants.
Absolutely correct. But what an even better thing we CAN do is to reply to people that have gross misconceptions about what is possible in the game. We CAN reply to people that make huge generalizations about the game. And we can do so with conviction when our own experiences prove contrary to what has been said.
well... if the reviews/ratings were not there to care about we could have mmorpg.com remove the ra(n)ting section all together, right? i mean, it would safe them storage space, and according to your advice, they are of no use anyways, yes?
now, maybe you try again, reroll your "Create witty response" and you might come up with more than a namecalling one liner. There are others in this thread that went from a initial 1 to at least a 16 on their second try.
Your justification for being stupid is that other people are being stupid first. Are you my congressman?
well... if the reviews/ratings were not there to care about we could have mmorpg.com remove the ra(n)ting section all together, right? i mean, it would safe them storage space, and according to your advice, they are of no use anyways, yes?
now, maybe you try again, reroll your "Create witty response" and you might come up with more than a namecalling one liner. There are others in this thread that went from a initial 1 to at least a 16 on their second try.
Your justification for being stupid is that other people are being stupid first.
It's that pretty much the basis for sarcasm?
This doesn't work because the rating system will delete reviews (not sure about votes, but probably) that belong to accounts that have low activity. If people wanted to affect the games rating with alt accounts, they would have to post with each one of them constantly. Not to say that this isn't done by a few anyway, but how many people are even aware of this deletion scheme?
What does bother me, though, are the people who troll and flame in the review section, and then must repost it verbatim when ever it falls off the front page or gets deleted. In an example posted above, the "I gave this game a 1 because it doesn't deserve the rating..." comment has been posted literally dozens of times. You just don't see this happen with the positive comments.
There really is no easy way to fix the Review Comment system. My thoughts would be to add a minimum character length for the comment, and using filler would get you banned from posting reviews (edit: IDEA! have shorter comments drop faster). Having a repost timer per game so you could only make a comment every few weeks would help. And automatically searching a posted comment against the rest of the reviews for repost-age (with a small margin of difference even) could weed out the alt-repeat-posts.
All of that and more could be done automatically with enough ingenuity. The question is, "Is it worth it?" There will never be a system that can keep the reviews "honest and objective". Why? Reason number 1 in my previous post: people suck.
If we are that worried about how people perceive the game (any game) in the reviews at MMORPG.COM, the only effective thing we (the long term community members) can do is demonstrate what the game is really like in our own domain - the forums. So lets cut down on the moaning and whining, the fanboi-isms and ranting. The problem will never be fixed, but at least we can provide a more truthful alternative for those willing to listen (read).
What are you going on about now? As and EVE player of 3 years, and a MMORPG.COM member of 1, I thought Beatnik's comments were well spoken. People just tend to get out of hand on this site, probably because it has a larger, more varied audience and they know they can get a response without alienating themselves from the community... which makes me wonder about the purpose of your post.
I was trying to take the poster seriously until I got to the point where I started bolding the text. Do people just not realize they are posting for the wrong game, or do they just copy/paste the same trolling remark in every game they don't like, regardless of whether they have played it or not?On the topic of this thread, I just read this review comment:
The misconception I think we as EVE players need to admit is that the game, by its very nature, is going to disappoint a healthy proportion of people. EVE is in fact designed to disappoint some people, because so much of the game is based around uncertain outcomes.
I don't think this has much to do with attitude, skill, maturity level, or any inherent characteristics of the player. You could be the best player, with all these character traits, and still walk away with a terrible experience, because of sheer bad luck.
We keep on saying things like, "get into a good corporation." What if the player gets into what to anyone would constitute a good corporation that turns out to be not so good? Moreover, what if there is no good corporation to be had?
Many here have built up relationships with good people. What if those good people were never there for you? Would we still have the same impression, or would we be one of the critics?
You see man, because EVE puts it in the hands of players to influence other players, we can never really say "I am living proof that EVE is not as bad as they say." We can't, because our experience may be totally different due to those first initial encounters that others may have never really had.
So they do what you, I, or anyone would do when they do everything they can to make it work, end up getting frustrated, and are asked, "what do you think of EVE?" They tell the only truth they know how to tell, and it is true, because it happened.
I mean, what is "posting with conviction when our own experiences prove contrary" really mean? You got lucky, and I got lucky. Someone could do exactly the same thing as you or I did, and come up with a completely different result due to random factors that weren't present in your case or mine.
So yeah man, we can post about what is possible, but I think it is an even more gross misconception to believe that what is possible for us is what is possible for anyone. Its inevitable that good players, who do all the right things, and who would really enjoy EVE end up hating EVE. Its the price EVE pays for its lack of structure.
We can call a rant a generalization, because its not true in our particular cases. But its even a bigger generalization in my opinion to say that "if you did x, y, and z you wouldn't have any problem with EVE, and its your own ineptitude, and not EVE's." There is no guarantee that even if you did do x, y, and z, that it would change the outcome at all, and its all in hindsight. Yeah man, maybe when I bet on black on the roulette table, I should have bet red instead. But it would be silly to say that its my fault and ineptitude that prevented me from betting red.
But I think the biggest misconception we have is to say, "you didn't give EVE a chance." Yeah if I keep on betting on black, I might finally see that roulette is worthwhile too, but how many times do I need to play in order to give it enough of a chance? The second time? When its four in the morning? When my money is gone? EVE is the same way. Many here say that a two week trial player has no cred. How many weeks then does a player need to have cred? One month? Two months? A year? Two years? If someone is not having fun in EVE, then it would be stupid for him to keep on playing and resubbing. And if someone has been subbing for two years, its blatantly obvious he likes it, or he wouldn't keep on playing, and resubbing.
So I guess the point I am trying to make is, the game is designed in a way that it can never guarantee a pleasurable experience. Because of this, people are going to criticize the game, and rightly so too. EVE, in fact, does suck, for a purely random number of people who do not have the sort of luck others may have, and no amount of testemony to the contrary will change that.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE