Not liking what I see.

Gallant · July 2006

Am I the only one that still feels (after the gameplay videos and e3 reviews) that WAR still seems to be a rebuilt WOW? I mean, I know the game is not literally a remake, but the graphics, the UI, the spell effects, the mobs...it just screams WOW.

I would kill for a DAOC 2 personally. IMO DAOC is by far the best fantasy MMO ever made and possibly the best MMO period thanks to it's innovative RvR system, it's brilliant class selection and variation and it's general atmosphere. Even PvE is superior to the competition in DAOC.

There is literally nothing that I liked about WOW and I am seeing not only an extreme similarity visually but also seemingly in overall concept. The added disgrace of adding instanced PvP and giving the real RvR system a status downgrade is leaving me with a rotten taste in my mouth.

I hope they will tell me or show me something to inspire the gaming monster in me because WAR is currently not even on my TRY IT list. =/

Mythic? Where are you going?

EliasThorne · July 2006

Much as I hate to I'll have to agree, I've long defended WAR, but yes there are definate WOW influences.
Granted 90% of the time the characters look like the minatures - which is great, and I've no doubt that WOW "borrowed" Games Workshop's ideas and look... but... as far as MMOs go WOW got there first.

RJCox · July 2006

Originally posted by EliasThorne
but... as far as MMOs go WOW got there first.

*boggle*

You CAN'T be serious right? Well, ok, technically I guess you CAN be, I have indeed met people who literally thought WoW was the first MMO, but generally not on THESE forums...

Teioh · July 2006

I think he meant WoW got there first in MMO using that art stlye, even though they heavily based it on Warhammer's own art style, so with Warhammer using it's stlye for graphics on WAR it will look somewhat like they are copying WoW, even though Warcraft's art was based on theirs.

EliasThorne · July 2006

What you mean WoW wasn't the first ever MMO??

Surly you jest

Thanks Teioh, thats what I meant, taking a few seconds to look at the games in my wake would have made that blatantly obvious

Thanks for the mini-flame though Richard, oh and in all seriousness its good to see feedback from a community manager, in fact the amount of feedback in the Hero's Journey forums was a major factor in me following it, so knowing that you guys are out there and listening is great news

RJCox · July 2006

Yes, I assumed that was what you meant, but no, it wasn't blatantly obvious. Like I've said, I have met people who held that opinion. It wasn't meant as a flame, mini or otherwise. You'd be surprised how many people there are out there who were introduced to the MMO genre by WoW and really haven't looked at anything else, therefore don't really know the history of the genre.

Back to your actual point though, yeah, WoW reached the MMO market with the art style first, but well, can't much be done about that. Seeing as the Warhammer Universe is closing in on being 25 years old and Warcraft didn't come along and steal the look until about 12 years ago, I don't see WAR changing its Art Style just so we don't look like WoW.

IMO there are many things that seperate WAR from WoW and the other games on the market. For one what was mentioned right above... It is being set in a 25 year old world full of history and lore and content; a world full of conflict and strife, great locations and characters, a perfect setting for a MMO.

And most importantly to a lot of people, our RvR (PvP) system, which DAoC introduced, and WAR will take to the next level, is incorporated into all levels and aspects of the game. We didn't tack it onto the end of the game as some half-forgotten after-thought like a lot of games out there. The design philosophy for Warhammer Online is "War is everywhere!" and you feel that in everything you do. When was the last time you felt like you were in a war in WARcraft? Even the PvE content in WAR is geared to help further the ongoing battle effort. Some is just atmospheric, killing NPC Dwarfs trying to invade your Greenskin starting village for example, while other PvE content actually has an effect on the RvR side of things.

I could go on and on about why/how I think WAR is different/better but most of you would probably just write me off as being biased since I work for Mythic or just spouting the company line I was fed and told to deliver... Those who have known me here for a while though know that really isn't my style.

So again, sorry for the confusion above and sorry if it came across as a flame.

EliasThorne · July 2006

Hey, thats okay - I was being somewhat tongue in cheek myself - damn the evils of the written word

I know there was no way for you to know this, but I've a long history with Warhammer - played WFRPG when it first came out, played Fantasy Battle fifteen years ago and just restarted, painted the mini's etc etc - so know a wee bit about the lore and I even followed the original Warhammer Online (don't shoot me for that though!)

Anyway, I know WAR will be different - or at least I truely hope it will, I hope it brings a geat deal to the community, all I was saying is that the look is similar and WoW got there first - of course I know you guys can't help it and what I'm really hoping for is not a u-turn on the graphics (although I would have prefered the gritty "Grim World of Perilous Adventure" look of the RPG) but I would like to see a look that is faithful to the battle miniatures, which while similar is not the same as WoW.

I think on the whole the look is right for the majority of battle players, which would be the bulk of GW's player base, so it was the way to go, I just... argh, I'm loosing my point here....

Okay, make the characters look like the miniatures (the new 6th style - not the old style) and the world look like the tabletop terrain (bar of course the table edges and overweight bespectacled guy in the check shirt

), which is oddly much more WarCraft than WoW.

For those that don't have a clue what I'm on about visit the Games Workshop site and take a look at the minature ranges (and compare with the "classic" ranges in the online shop) and also look at some of the terrain building guides and hopefully you'll see what I was trying to get at...

And if you want to get an idea how things could look take a look at coolMiniOrNot and check out some of the 9-10 ranked mini's there - very cool and you get an idea from the bases the feel of the world.

Anyway I'm supposed to be working on a report so I'll sod off now

VideoXPG · July 2006

Back to the original post, WoW "stole" those Gameplay mechanics from a bunch of other MMOs out there as well. Even Blizzard stated this perfectely, "All art is derivative." I am glad how Mythic's previews thus far on the game have been all about it's Gameplay, and not its graphics or how it's suppsoed to "toppple WoW" even though right now WAR is the heaviest contender to do so.

Meh, still, I just wanna see my High Elves in the monthly newsletter and my name on the beta list and I'll be happier with the way the game is coming than I was before.

dapsykotik · July 2006

The WAR graphics looks like the miniatures, see by yourself. Then we all know that WoW stole a lot of ideas from Warhammer. And please stop saying that WAR looks like WoW 2.0, go see the RvR part of WAR.

Dr.Giggles · July 2006

Everyone is at least a little worried this will be some WoW clone. Mythic worked wonders with DAOC and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt untill I play WAR myself- they've earned that imho. Hell, if Mythic WAS making their own version of WoW I'd still expect a much better game than the original. Gallant- you said that instanced PvP was a disgrace. Did the introduction of Darkness Falls and the instanced PvP there adversely affect your DAOC experience? Personally I had some really memorable times in DF, most of them were when it changed hands while we had a raid going inside.

TookyG · July 2006

Of course it seems like WoW....but wow is just like every other game out there. Not to mention that the warcraft universe is very very similar to that of the warhammer universe.

I had the chance to play a short demo at Origins as Mythic had a booth setup and I liked what I saw. I was only running one quest but it gave me a small taste of the combat and for an alpha build of the game it was pretty fun and quite amazing what they've already accomplished with the game.

Edit: Spelling/Grammar

RJCox · July 2006

Originally posted by TookyG

Of course it seems like WoW....but wow is just like every other game out there. Not to mention that the warcraft universe is very very similar to that of the warhammer universe.
I had the change to play a short demo at Origins as Mythic had a booth setup and I liked what I saw. It was only running one quest but it gave me a small taste of the combat and for an alpha build of the game it was pretty fun and quite amazing what they've already accomplished with the game.

Actually there were MANY quests available in the demo we showed at Origins...

spudvol · July 2006

I think the "It" he is referring to is his opportunity to play, not the demo.

Distortion0 · July 2006

Can someone point me to the screens that look like WoW? Because the ones I'm looking at look like the minuratures. Sure, the grass and snow are a little different but I don't think that makes it look like WoW. Oh and the orks are a little less asymetrical and a little more nasty looking, but I think that's an improvement...

Elda · July 2006

*Aplauds for richard*

you said everything I was about to say when I started reading this topic, and even more.
I've been looking into the game for a v long time and I've been playing Warhammer fantasy for more then 4 years now and I've never thought of WAR as a WoW clone. Maybe it looks a litle the same, but as far as I've seen the gameplay will be a huge different, and a lot better, I mean what is pvp in WoW, almost nothing....

Feigro · July 2006

As far as looks are concerned.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/Shadowski/WAR%20Comparisons/Orc-Comparison.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/Shadowski/WAR%20Comparisons/Goblin-Comparison.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f229/Shadowski/WAR%20Comparisons/Dwarf-Comparison.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7281/warvswow6te.jpg

While I'll agree. They may look similiar. WAR clearly has better graphics. Well, atleast in my opinion.

spunger · July 2006

Originally posted by Gallant

Am I the only one that still feels (after the gameplay videos and e3 reviews) that WAR still seems to be a rebuilt WOW? I mean, I know the game is not literally a remake, but the graphics, the UI, the spell effects, the mobs...it just screams WOW.
I would kill for a DAOC 2 personally. IMO DAOC is by far the best fantasy MMO ever made and possibly the best MMO period thanks to it's innovative RvR system, it's brilliant class selection and variation and it's general atmosphere. Even PvE is superior to the competition in DAOC.
There is literally nothing that I liked about WOW and I am seeing not only an extreme similarity visually but also seemingly in overall concept. The added disgrace of adding instanced PvP and giving the real RvR system a status downgrade is leaving me with a rotten taste in my mouth.
I hope they will tell me or show me something to inspire the gaming monster in me because WAR is currently not even on my TRY IT list. =/

Mythic? Where are you going?

In my opinion, Shadowbane and UO were the best pvp MMOs to date and AoC will be the next. RvR is okay, but its not as involving and rewarding as player politics rather than being forced to take a side in the beginning. Its much more involving to be in a guild and in an alliance that has real in game enemies, rather that just killing somebody for the mere fact that they are attackable. Factioned pvp is a joke, it gets old really fast. PvP against real in game enemies is much more fun.

Ponzini · July 2006

Originally posted by Gallant

The added disgrace of adding instanced PvP and giving the real RvR system a status downgrade is leaving me with a rotten taste in my mouth.

That is what is really bothering me. I hate instancing and all MMOs are heading in that direction lately. Ruins the immersion.

clobba · July 2006

I am just a wee bit upset with this game, I was following the original Warhammer being created by the other mob & CoH....one got cancelled & I joined the others Beta test....& still playing it. Was going to jump ship & hold my breath till I got to play this new version having been playing Warhammer & 40k since Rogue Trader, but I looked at the screens & I dont care who ripped whom...for a start I loath WoW graphics & these arent quite so cutesy & do stick with the same GW sorta look for the greenskins & the rest but whats going on with how bappy it all looks...I was waiting for a grim dark world fighting to resist the allure & power of the ravaging chaos hordes (or being one of the horde) utilising the WHRPG character system & NOT i repeat NOT being overly obsessed with the genetal comparison that is PvP.

Cool you have the name of the franchise but for me you dont have the feel, unless something happens to make me do a 180 this isnt even going to make it onto my try list either

Shayde · July 2006

WoW was ripped liberally from Warhammer mythos. Every image I've seen rings true to Warhammer and the brilliant artists at GW.

Only someone who has never seen Warhammer can think it rips off WoW. Like someone saying the Hobbits are ripping off D&D's halflings.

Kyoruto · July 2006

OK, seeing the comparison... Warhammer has my vote just alone making the coolest looking wolf I have ever seen. Please tell me that creatures will eventually close their mouths too. Though that was very little. It did annoy me seeing an always open mouth.

VideoXPG · July 2006

I don't see most people in terms of graphics alone saying that WAR looks like WoW, WoW's graphics are way to cartoony, but for the most part, the general looks for all of the races are similiar.

Gallant · July 2006

Graphics -

It's not as simple as saying that the graphics are better, or that they look like real Warhammer characters. It is the over all feel. The game strongly reminds me of WOW, from the general "feel" of the graphics down the the UI itself. The fact that I would destroy WOW and mark it as a loser in the history books if I could makes that connection a venomus one IMO. I have a hard time believing that the similarity I can SEE will not translate into some unwanted similarities I can FEEL.

RvR/instanced PvP -

DF is not an instance. Instanced PvP, I fear, will prove over time to be the "easy way out". You can see even in DAOC that many players choose to run around randomly "ganking" rather than taking part in the REALM level battles. The addition of the ability to stay in the BG's forever has taken large numbers of what I consider "lazy" players out of the end game as well. Ultimately this led to a decline in the number of large battles, relic raids and keep takes. With few players it became a game of capping a tower, camping it for some easy kills and then repeating once you finally got over run.

That is not the original DAOC, that is the lazy mans DAOC that Mythic felt it had to cater to for one reason or another.

I see instanced PvP as another attempt to satisfy this group of players and I feel it could easily end up being a built in drain on the real end game. That is why I refer to it as a status downgrade for real RvR.

Yuck.. I don't like seeing mistakes being purposely included as part of a games design. I almost wonder if anyone at Mythic still played DAOC actively when they introduced these features in that game and permenently damaged RvR.

Additionally, I am simply disappointed by the info I have found about character classes, I think this aspect is simply from the fact that WAR is pulling from a pre-existing source. So far I have to say, the classes in DAOC were vastly more inspired and creative. This may change as more info becomes available, but I am not anticipating that to be honest.

Murais · July 2006

Originally posted by Shayde
WoW was ripped liberally from Warhammer mythos. Every image I've seen rings true to Warhammer and the brilliant artists at GW.

Only someone who has never seen Warhammer can think it rips off WoW. Like someone saying the Hobbits are ripping off D&D's halflings.

It's not even that. You just have to have enough sense. I was exposed to WoW and Warcraft long before Warhammer, but once I saw WAR, and did a little research on it, then it's right there in front of your face. Now I see that Blizzard did raid Warhammer's universe liberally to create Warcraft. I see it, and just how similar it is, and it makes me have a new, hateful view of Blizzard. The similarities are boundless, and the creator of the Warcraft lore himself has completely drawn a blank since WoW came out.

   A lack of new sources in which to "borrow" from perhaps?

     I'm not going to lie, WAR is my first exposure to the Warhammer universe. But, because I've played Warcraft and WoW so long, I feel like I've already been here, and I like it. Warhammer, in my eyes, seems to be several times more advanced than the Warcraft world, and it pleases me to be exposed to it.

   Now here's just hoping Mythic and GW can come through with WAR.

L0k1- · July 2006

Originally posted by Murais

Originally posted by Shayde
WoW was ripped liberally from Warhammer mythos. Every image I've seen rings true to Warhammer and the brilliant artists at GW.

Only someone who has never seen Warhammer can think it rips off WoW. Like someone saying the Hobbits are ripping off D&D's halflings.

It's not even that. You just have to have enough sense. I was exposed to WoW and Warcraft long before Warhammer, but once I saw WAR, and did a little research on it, then it's right there in front of your face. Now I see that Blizzard did raid Warhammer's universe liberally to create Warcraft. I see it, and just how similar it is, and it makes me have a new, hateful view of Blizzard. The similarities are boundless, and the creator of the Warcraft lore himself has completely drawn a blank since WoW came out.

   A lack of new sources in which to "borrow" from perhaps?

     I'm not going to lie, WAR is my first exposure to the Warhammer universe. But, because I've played Warcraft and WoW so long, I feel like I've already been here, and I like it. Warhammer, in my eyes, seems to be several times more advanced than the Warcraft world, and it pleases me to be exposed to it.

   Now here's just hoping Mythic and GW can come through with WAR.

for me it's also my real first exposure about warhammer, i played warhammer 40.000: dawn of war, but that's it

gonna wait a bit longer and c how the story is in warhammer online, might even buy couple of their novels as i like to live in to it

that's kind of the only reason i play wow atm, i love the warcraft lore and got all the novels of it, but warhammer does look nice now

Annekynn · July 2006

Originally posted by Feigro

While I'll agree. They may look similiar. WAR clearly has better graphics. Well, atleast in my opinion.

Well it should look better, since by the time it comes out it will be 3 years newer..

Howdy, Stranger!

Not liking what I see.

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Not liking what I see.

Comments