Admiriker and his pal are off on a goose hunt; wandering around town in a styrofoam suit with a tin foil hat doesn't cut it for them. Village idiots.
Moving on, I will again respond to the morons who believe that
The Illuminati are Skull and Bones
Stupid and inane. You are mixing Dan Brown crack with Yale fratdom.
Skull and Bones controls the world
If Yale is the beginning and end of your end of your world, this sentence might very well be true. But it isn't, judging by your logic and grammar. (Chances are, if you were 18 again, you would give an arm and a leg to attend Yale and now you are middle-aged and sad and resentful.)
Bush and Rumsfeld have secret prison camps because..., well, there is no "because," but I am sure it's clever
+
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar." - Edward R. Murrow
Originally posted by JustinTime admriker444, did you know bush and kerry are distant cousins? Apparently they are also related to vlad the impaler. Strange nonetheless.
Vlad the impaler was alive in the 1400's, so I don't know how closely related they would be.
Mind you, geneology is an imperfect... "science" (quotes added because I consider it a stupid waste of time that leads to nowhere).
How can it be proven? DNA sampling? I didn't think so.
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar." - Edward R. Murrow
It would seem the US can do this to UK citizen's, but if the situation was reversed, this wouldnt be happening.
Click the link or read below:
Three former NatWest bankers are on a flight to the US to face fraud charges arising from the collapse of the energy giant Enron.
Giles Darby, David Bermingham and Gary Mulgrew - all expected to attend a bail hearing on Friday - deny wrongdoing.
They were handed over to US marshals at Gatwick Airport who are flying with them to Houston, Texas, on a flight that left on Thursday morning.
The move sparked a political row in the UK over US powers to extradite.
BBC correspondent Jon Brain, speaking by telephone from aboard the plane, said the men had been seated at the back of the aircraft - before other passengers had been allowed to board - and were surrounded by air marshals.
Emergency debate
Critics have attacked the extradition system between the UK and the US as one-sided because the Americans have yet to ratify a treaty between the two countries.
Critics also say it is unfair the US authorities need only to outline the alleged offence, and provide "evidence or information that would justify the issue of a warrant for arrest in the UK" whereas British police must provide the American courts with evidence of "probable cause" if it wishes to extradite someone.
An emergency debate was held in the Commons to discuss the issue on Wednesday.
Prime Minister Tony Blair told the House of Commons that US prosecutors would not oppose bail if appropriate conditions were met.
But the men's UK solicitor, Mark Spragg, said it looked unlikely the men would get "meaningful bail".
"The US prosecutors are currently suggesting they may get bail but only to live in the immediate Houston area.
"That won't be satisfactory at all because they're going have to put up all their money and property as collateral even to get that sort of bail.
"They won't be able to work in the US so they won't be able to earn money to pay their lawyers so I fail to see how they can get a fair fight on that basis."
BBC correspondent Nicola Pearson said that, if the men are not granted bail, they could spend up to two years in jail before their case comes to trial.
If found guilty, they could spend up to 23 years in jail without the chance of parole, she added.
Former employer
Mr Darby, from Lower Wraxall in Somerset, Mr Bermingham, from Goring in Oxfordshire, and Mr Mulgrew, from Brighton in Sussex, are accused of making over £1m each out of a complex fraud in which their former employer NatWest was an alleged victim.
The body of another banker, who had been questioned by the FBI as a potential witness in the Enron fraud case, was found in London on Wednesday. There is no indication that his death is linked to the case.
Police said they were treating the death of Neil Coulbeck, who worked for the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) until 2004, as "unexplained".
The fraud case centres on a NatWest transaction under which it sold off part of its Enron unit. NatWest is a subsidiary of RBS.
RBS said: "There is no evidence that Mr Coulbeck was involved in the approval of the transaction under investigation.
"RBS has co-operated fully with all the appropriate authorities and made them fully aware of all the relevant facts in our possession."
The FBI said it would not comment while the case was ongoing.
In 2002, US prosecutors issued arrest warrants for the three British bankers Mr Bermingham, Mr Mulgrew and Mr Darby, accusing them of conspiring to defraud their employers and investors in Enron. The energy firm collapsed in 2001 after admitting inflating profits and hiding debts.
It is alleged that they advised their employer Greenwich NatWest to sell off its stake in an Enron unit at well below its market value.
They then left the bank and purchased a $250,000 (£135,000) stake in the unit - which they sold on at a much higher price, making a profit of $7.3m (£3.9m), it is claimed. The men deny any wrongdoing.
After a three-hour debate in the Commons, MPs voted by a majority of 242 to adjourn the Commons early in symbolic protest at the government's extradition arrangements.
On Tuesday, peers had voted in favour of suspending extradition agreements with the US until the UK-US treated had been ratified there.
Tamalan--what does extradition of criminals have to do with crackpot conspiracy theories? If you break the law in the United states and pussyfoot back to England, you have still broken the law and must face judicial proceedings.
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar." - Edward R. Murrow
Originally posted by Merodoc Tamalan--what does extradition of criminals have to do with crackpot conspiracy theories? If you break the law in the United states and pussyfoot back to England, you have still broken the law and must face judicial proceedings.
I suggest you read all the article, but here is the key part as to why im posting this in a thread entitled "America: Freedom to Fascism".
"Critics also say it is unfair the US authorities need only to outline the alleged offence, and provide "evidence or information that would justify the issue of a warrant for arrest in the UK" whereas British police must provide the American courts with evidence of "probable cause" if it wishes to extradite someone"
Originally posted by Gunblade Dear 94Z07, Thank you for the compliment and doing all the hardwork after the statements of a few here. Maybe one of these days I can buy you a drink and discuss history lol. As to admiker. Dude, you need a reality check and quit filtering whatever search engine you are using with your selective system. Because I searched the following in google: "law for income tax" Hmm oh jee first link: http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Income_tax All seems pretty regulated and right to me and thats just the first link. With you know, that whole citing/mla format thing. Unless I am missing something dreadful here, I doubt I will see an entertaining episode of Income Tax on Penn and Teller Bullshit any time soon. What are we arguing about here again? Have you all forgotten to watch the trailer?
As usual, folks dont read all of the posts. If you had, you wouldnt be showing us a link to the 16th amendment which has already been argued as flawed, unconstitutional, never ratified, and according to the supreme court does NOT give the goverment the right to tax our labor.
Again, show me the law that says the goverment can tax my labor....it does NOT exist
Originally posted by JustinTime admriker444, did you know bush and kerry are distant cousins? Apparently they are also related to vlad the impaler. Strange nonetheless.
I dont know about that but I do know that both Kerry and Bush are members of Skull and Bones. The last election was a total fraud. Gee wiz, which S&B member should I choose ???
Originally posted by JustinTime admriker444, did you know bush and kerry are distant cousins? Apparently they are also related to vlad the impaler. Strange nonetheless.
I dont know about that but I do know that both Kerry and Bush are members of Skull and Bones. The last election was a total fraud. Gee wiz, which S&B member should I choose ???
THank you! I'm not the only one that thought Bush and Kerry were the exact same in the election! I just wanted to smack someone who actually had the balls to think devil 1 was better then devil 2. When they can't see Devil 1 is devil 2! And say "Duh... I'm smart cause I'm part of the 49% that didn't vote for Bush... So We are the americans." No... You're just as stupid if not more so in thinking that!
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Originally posted by Merodoc Admiriker and his pal are off on a goose hunt; wandering around town in a styrofoam suit with a tin foil hat doesn't cut it for them. Village idiots.
Moving on, I will again respond to the morons who believe that
The Illuminati are Skull and Bones Stupid and inane. You are mixing Dan Brown crack with Yale fratdom.
Have you done any research, the answer is obviously no. If yu had you'd know the following....
America's Secret Establishment", by Antony C. Sutton, 1986, page 5-6, states: "Those on the inside know it as The Order. Others have known it for more than 150 years as Chapter 322 of a German secret society. More formally, for legal purposes, The Order was incorporated as The Russell Trust in 1856. It was also once known as the "Brotherhood of Death". Those who make light of it, or want to make fun of it, call it 'Skull & Bones', or just plain 'Bones'. The American chapter of this German order was founded in 1833 at Yale University by General William Huntington Russell and Alphonso Taft who, in 1876, became Secretary of War in the Grant Administration. Alphonso Taft was the father of William Howard Taft, the only man to be both President and Chief Justice of the United States.
Skull and Bones controls the world If Yale is the beginning and end of your end of your world, this sentence might very well be true. But it isn't, judging by your logic and grammar. (Chances are, if you were 18 again, you would give an arm and a leg to attend Yale and now you are middle-aged and sad and resentful.)
Bush and Rumsfeld have secret prison camps because..., well, there is no "because," but I am sure it's clever +
Oh really, then you obviously havent again done any research. I personally have seen 2 different sites, one in Idaho and another near my sister in California.
There over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States. The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons. Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub programs which will be implemented once the Rex 84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly takeover of the state and local governments by the federal government. FEMA is the executive arm of the coming police state and thus will head up all operations. The Presidential Executive Orders already listed on the Federal Register also are part of the legal framework for this operation. The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of the camps can house a population of 20,000 prisoners. Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. The Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold approximately 2 million people. A person named Terry Kings wrote an article on his discoveries of camps located in southern California. His findings are as follows: Over the last couple months several of us have investigated three soon-to-be prison camps in the Southern California area. We had heard about these sites and wanted to see them for ourselves. The first one we observed was in Palmdale, California. It is not operating as a prison at the moment but is masquerading as part of a water facility. Now why would there be a facility of this nature out in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no prisoners? The fences that run for miles around this large facility all point inward, and there are large mounds of dirt and dry moat surrounding the central area so the inside area is not visible from the road. There are 3 large loading docks facing the entrance that can be observed from the road. What are these massive docks going to be loading? We observed white vans patrolling the area and one came out and greeted us with a friendly wave and followed us until we had driven safely beyond the area. What would have happened had we decided to enter the open gate or ask questions? This facility is across the street from the Palmdale Water Department. The area around the Water Department has fences pointing outward, to keep people out of this dangerous area so as not to drown. Yet, across the street, the fences all point inward. Why? To keep people in? What people? Who are going to be it’s occupants? There are also signs posted every 50 feet stating: State of California Trespassing Loitering Forbidden By Law Section 555 California Penal Code. The sign at the entrance says: Pearblossom Operations and Maintenance Subcenter Receiving Department, 34534 116th Street East. There is also a guard shack located at the entrance. We didn’t venture into this facility, but did circle around it to see if there was anything else visible from the road. We saw miles of fences with the top points all directed inward. There is a railroad track that runs next to the perimeter of this fenced area. The loading docks are large enough to hold railroad cars. I wonder what they are planning for this facility? They could easily fit 100,000 people in this area. And who would the occupants be? Another site is located in Brand Park in Glendale. There are newly constructed fences (all outfitted with new wiring that point inward). The fences surround a dry reservoir. There are also new buildings situated in the area. We questioned the idea that there were four armed military personnel walking the park. Since when does a public park need armed guards? A third site visited was in the San Fernando Valley, adjacent to the Water District. Again, the area around the actual Water District had fences logically pointing out (to keep people out of the dangerous area). And the rest of the adjacent area which went on for several miles was ringed with fences and barbed wire facing inward (to keep what or who in?) Also, interesting was the fact that the addition to the tops of the fences were fairly new as to not even contain any sign of rust on them. Within the grounds was a huge building that the guard said was a training range for policemen. There were newly constructed roads, new gray military looking buildings, and a landing strip. For what? Police cars were constantly patrolling the several mile perimeter of the area. From the parking lot of the Odyssey Restaurant a better view could be taken of the area that was hidden from site from the highway. There was an area that contained about 100 black boxes that looked like railroad cars. We had heard that loads of railroad cars have been manufactured in Oregon outfitted with shackles. Would these be of that nature? From our position it was hard to determine. In searching the Internet, I have discovered that there are about 600 of these prison sites around the country (and more literally popping up overnight do they work all night). They are manned, but yet do not contain prisoners. Why do they need all these non-operating prisons? What are they waiting for? We continuously hear that our current prisons are overcrowded and they are releasing prisoners because of this situation. But what about all these facilities? What are they really for? Why are there armed guards yet no one to protect themselves against? And what is going to be the kick-off point to put these facilities into operation? What would bring about a situation that would call into effect the need for these new prison facilities? A man-made or natural catastrophe? An earthquake, panic due to Y2K, a massive poisoning, a panic of such dimensions to cause nationwide panic? Once a major disaster occurs (whether it is a real event or manufactured event does not matter) Martial Law is hurriedly put in place and we are all in the hands of the government agencies (FEMA) who thus portray themselves as our protectors. Yet what happens when we question those in authority and how they are taking away all of our freedoms? Will we be the ones detained in these camp sites? And who are they going to round up? Those with guns? Those who ask questions? Those that want to know what’s really going on? Does that include any of us? The seekers of truth? When first coming across this information I was in a state of total denial. How could this be? I believed our country was free, and always felt a sense of comfort in knowing that as long as we didn’t hurt others in observing our freedom we were left to ourselves. Ideally we treated everyone with respect and honored their uniqueness and hoped that others did likewise. It took an intensive year of searching into the hidden politics to discover that we are as free as we believe we are. If we are in denial, we don’t see the signs that are staring at us, but keep our minds turned off and busy with all the mundane affairs of daily life. We just don’t care enough to find out the real truth, and settle for the hand-fed stories that come our way over the major media sources television, radio, newspaper, and magazines. But it’s too late to turn back to the days of blindfolds and hiding our heads in the sand because the reality is becoming very clear. The time is fast approaching when we will be the ones asking "What happened to our freedom? To our free speech? To our right to protect ourselves and our family? To think as an individual? To express ourselves in whatever way we wish?" Once we challenge that freedom we find out how free we really are. How many are willing to take up that challenge? Very few indeed, otherwise we wouldn’t find ourselves in the situation that we are in at the present time. We wouldn’t have let things progress and get out of the hands of the public and into the hands of those that seek to keep us under their control no matter what it takes, and that includes the use of force and detainment for those that ask the wrong questions. Will asking questions be outlawed next? Several instances have recently been reported where those that were asking questions that came too near the untold truth (the cover up) were removed from the press conferences and from the public’s ear. Also, those that wanted to speak to the press were detained and either imprisoned, locked in a psychiatric hospital, slaughtered (through make-believe suicides) or discredited. Why are we all in denial over these possibilities? Didn’t we hear about prison camps in Germany, and even in the United States during World War II? Japanese individuals were rounded up and placed in determent camps during the duration of the War. Where was their freedom? You don’t think it could happen to you? Obviously those rounded up and killed didn’t think it could happen to them either. How could decent people have witnessed such atrocities and still said nothing? Are we going to do the same here as they cart off one by one those individuals who are taking a stand for the rights of the citizens as they expose the truth happening behind the scenes? Are we all going to sit there and wonder what happened to this country of ours? Where did we go wrong? How could we let it happen?
Just because our goverment tried to collect taxes during the civil war, doesnt make it constitutional and legal. In fact, President Lincoln suspended several rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights during that era.
And the goverment has repeatedly tried to tax us and failed....
In 1894, Congress adopted an income tax act which was declared unconstitutional in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., 157 U.S. 429, 15 S.Ct. 673, aff. reh., 158 U.S. 601, 15 S.Ct. 912 (1895). The Pollock Court found that the income tax was a direct tax which could only be imposed if the tax was apportioned; since this tax was not apportioned, it was found unconstitutional.
About the 16th amendment....
Article V of the U.S. Constitution specifies the ratification process, and requires 3/4 of the States to ratify any amendment proposed by Congress. There were 48 States in the American Union in 1913, meaning that affirmative action of 36 states was required for ratification. In February, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox issued a proclamation claiming that 38 states had ratified the amendment.
In 1984, William J. Benson began a research project, never before performed, to investigate the process of ratification of the 16th Amendment. After traveling to the capitols of the New England states, and reviewing the journals of the state legislative bodies, he saw that many states had not ratified the Amendment. Continuing his research at the National Archives in Washington, DC, Bill Benson discovered his Golden Key. This damning piece of evidence is a 16 page memorandum from the Solicitor of the Department of State, whose duty is the provision of legal opinions for the use of the Secretary of State. In this memorandum sent to the Secretary of State, the Solicitor of the Department of State lists the many errors he found in the ratification process!
The 4 states listed below are among the 38 states that Philander Knox claimed ratification from.
The Kentucky Senate voted upon the resolution, but rejected it by a vote of 9 in favor and 22 opposed.
The Oklahoma Senate amended the language of the 16th Amendment to have a precisely opposite meaning.
The California legislative assembly never recorded any vote upon any proposal to adopt the amendment proposed by Congress.
The State of Minnesota sent nothing to the Secretary of State in Washington.
When his year long project was finished at the end of 1984, Bill had visited every state capitol and knew that not a single state had actually and legally ratified the proposal to amend the Constitution. 33 states engaged in the unauthorized activity of amending the language of the amendment proposed by congress, a power the states do not possess. Since 36 states were needed for ratification, the failure of 13 to ratify would be fatal to the amendment, and this occurs within the major (first three) defects tabulated in Defects in Ratification of the 16th Amendment. Even if we were to ignore defects of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation, we would still have only 2 states which successfully ratified.
More proof the 16th amendment is a fraud...
JOE BANISTER - Ex-IRS Special Agent, Criminal Investigation Division, Fraud Investigator. He quit the IRS when they failed to show him a law that requires Americans to file and pay income taxes. In 2004, the IRS answered Banister's questions about the legality of the income tax, by charging him with various tax crimes. The Jury found Banister not guilty of all charges last year
And no this, its not just my opinion about taxes being a fraud on us. Take a look at just a small portion of below events scheduled for this year. I think I have more than proven my point, if you wish to remain in the dark then oh well....
The "Why Won't They Answer?" Tour Schedule
Get to the Events:Click below on your city for all the details !
1 Tuesday FRESNO, CA 2 Wednesday LAS VEGAS, NV 3 Thursday FLAGSTAFF, AZ 4 Friday SANTA FE , NM 5 Saturday AMARILLO, TX 6 Sunday OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 7 Monday LITTLE ROCK, AR 8 Tuesday NASHVILLE, TN 9 Wednesday FRANKFORT/LEX, KY 10 Thursday CHARLESTON, WV 11 Friday COLUMBUS, OH 12 Saturday INDIANAPOLIS, IN 13 Sunday SPRINGFIELD, IL 14 Monday JEFFERSON CITY, MO 15 Tuesday TOPEKA, KS 16 Wednesday DENVER, CO 17 Thursday CHEYENNE, WY 18 Friday SALT LAKE CITY, UT 19 Saturday CARSON CITY, NV 20 Sunday SACRAMENTO, CA 21 Monday MEDFORD, OR 22 Tuesday SALEM, OR 23 Wednesday OLYMPIA, WA 24 Thursday JUNEAU, AK 25 Friday (—) 26 Saturday BOISE, ID 27 Sunday IDAHO FALLS, OH 28 Monday HELENA, MT 29 Tuesday BISMARCK, ND 30 Wednesday PIERRE, SD 31 Thursday LINCOLN, NE
September, 2006 1 Friday DES MOINES, IA 2 Saturday MINNEAPOLIS, MN 3 Sunday MADISON, WS 4 Monday LANSING, MI 5 Tuesday BUFFALO, NY 6 Wednesday ALBANY, NY 7 Thursday MONTPELIER, VT 8 Friday AUGUSTA, ME 9 Saturday PROVIDENCE , RI
No, we're lacking the dictator part; President W. Bush could never hope to wield the power over his nation that Fidel Castro does over his own.
We're more like a candy bar: We have a thin democratic shell on the outside and a creamy layer of capitalism within the shell mixed with a nougat consisting of affluent nuts.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Haven’t been here in a while but wow, lots of you guys are pretty nutty. Honestly I wouldn’t even worry all that much if the government confiscated every civilian held firearm. You can build a suppressed smg, flamethrower, ied, or whatever you can think of with a simple trip to the hardware store and a few tools. This country has a pretty good record of revolution; I think we could do the job again IF needed. Chill out lol.
Originally posted by Kyoruto Well, I can see the Silencer. That thing is meant to bassically kill without being noticed. I almost don't understand without having to go through the procedures to get a fully automatic rifle. If we are allowed to have weapons to protect ourselves... I'd think if an invading force would come in... They wouldn't be using semi automatic weapons. BTW Yay! Milita!
Actually in many European countries sound suppressors (or the Hollywood dubbed “silencer”) are used, and in some required to cut down on noise pollution. Most of the users equip them so they aren’t deaf while shooting indoors, something that is likely to happen in a self defense shooting.
Originally posted by Voshterkoff Haven’t been here in a while but wow, lots of you guys are pretty nutty. Honestly I wouldn’t even worry all that much if the government confiscated every civilian held firearm. You can build a suppressed smg, flamethrower, ied, or whatever you can think of with a simple trip to the hardware store and a few tools. This country has a pretty good record of revolution; I think we could do the job again IF needed. Chill out lol.
But can you make 500,000 of them fast enough to fight a pre equiped/heavily armed army?
The chances of a revolution in a country with disarmed civilians is next to zero. A military coup is your only serious shot at armed resistance to the state. Americans were not unarmed when they revolted. Make no mistake.
.
I use a silencer for hunting. If nothing else it doesn't disturb the neighbours.
Originally posted by Tamalan Interesting story about 3 Britons being taken to the states to stand trial, if you are not aware of it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5175058.stm It would seem the US can do this to UK citizen's, but if the situation was reversed, this wouldnt be happening.
Yeah the yanks won't give up the IRA.
Pretty soon you'll be all alone in your war on terror.
In response to this Britain has ammended it's list of trusted nations to which we will extradite. America is no longer on that list. Co-operation withdrawn.
That treaty was signed (by us but not you) in order for you to better extradite terrorists. Instead you have used it to take bankers not deemed to have enough evidence against them to prosecute in England for the crimes said to have been commited here.
The U.S. is unwilling to ratify the treaty itself as this might force it to give up the terrorists it has been harboring. Pretty soon you will have to choose your allies, Great Britain or the IRA. Public opinion in this country will no longer support our alliance in these circumstances.
Comments
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
- Edward R. Murrow
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
- Edward R. Murrow
Interesting story about 3 Britons being taken to the states to stand trial, if you are not aware of it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5175058.stm
It would seem the US can do this to UK citizen's, but if the situation was reversed, this wouldnt be happening.
Click the link or read below:
Three former NatWest bankers are on a flight to the US to face fraud charges arising from the collapse of the energy giant Enron.
Giles Darby, David Bermingham and Gary Mulgrew - all expected to attend a bail hearing on Friday - deny wrongdoing.
They were handed over to US marshals at Gatwick Airport who are flying with them to Houston, Texas, on a flight that left on Thursday morning.
The move sparked a political row in the UK over US powers to extradite.
BBC correspondent Jon Brain, speaking by telephone from aboard the plane, said the men had been seated at the back of the aircraft - before other passengers had been allowed to board - and were surrounded by air marshals.
Emergency debate
Critics have attacked the extradition system between the UK and the US as one-sided because the Americans have yet to ratify a treaty between the two countries.
Critics also say it is unfair the US authorities need only to outline the alleged offence, and provide "evidence or information that would justify the issue of a warrant for arrest in the UK" whereas British police must provide the American courts with evidence of "probable cause" if it wishes to extradite someone.
An emergency debate was held in the Commons to discuss the issue on Wednesday.
Prime Minister Tony Blair told the House of Commons that US prosecutors would not oppose bail if appropriate conditions were met.
But the men's UK solicitor, Mark Spragg, said it looked unlikely the men would get "meaningful bail".
"The US prosecutors are currently suggesting they may get bail but only to live in the immediate Houston area.
"That won't be satisfactory at all because they're going have to put up all their money and property as collateral even to get that sort of bail.
"They won't be able to work in the US so they won't be able to earn money to pay their lawyers so I fail to see how they can get a fair fight on that basis."
BBC correspondent Nicola Pearson said that, if the men are not granted bail, they could spend up to two years in jail before their case comes to trial.
If found guilty, they could spend up to 23 years in jail without the chance of parole, she added.
Former employer
Mr Darby, from Lower Wraxall in Somerset, Mr Bermingham, from Goring in Oxfordshire, and Mr Mulgrew, from Brighton in Sussex, are accused of making over £1m each out of a complex fraud in which their former employer NatWest was an alleged victim.
The body of another banker, who had been questioned by the FBI as a potential witness in the Enron fraud case, was found in London on Wednesday. There is no indication that his death is linked to the case.
Police said they were treating the death of Neil Coulbeck, who worked for the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) until 2004, as "unexplained".
The fraud case centres on a NatWest transaction under which it sold off part of its Enron unit. NatWest is a subsidiary of RBS.
RBS said: "There is no evidence that Mr Coulbeck was involved in the approval of the transaction under investigation.
"RBS has co-operated fully with all the appropriate authorities and made them fully aware of all the relevant facts in our possession."
The FBI said it would not comment while the case was ongoing.
In 2002, US prosecutors issued arrest warrants for the three British bankers Mr Bermingham, Mr Mulgrew and Mr Darby, accusing them of conspiring to defraud their employers and investors in Enron. The energy firm collapsed in 2001 after admitting inflating profits and hiding debts.
It is alleged that they advised their employer Greenwich NatWest to sell off its stake in an Enron unit at well below its market value.
They then left the bank and purchased a $250,000 (£135,000) stake in the unit - which they sold on at a much higher price, making a profit of $7.3m (£3.9m), it is claimed. The men deny any wrongdoing.
After a three-hour debate in the Commons, MPs voted by a majority of 242 to adjourn the Commons early in symbolic protest at the government's extradition arrangements.
On Tuesday, peers had voted in favour of suspending extradition agreements with the US until the UK-US treated had been ratified there.
"Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
- Edward R. Murrow
I suggest you read all the article, but here is the key part as to why im posting this in a thread entitled "America: Freedom to Fascism".
"Critics also say it is unfair the US authorities need only to outline the alleged offence, and provide "evidence or information that would justify the issue of a warrant for arrest in the UK" whereas British police must provide the American courts with evidence of "probable cause" if it wishes to extradite someone"
THank you! I'm not the only one that thought Bush and Kerry were the exact same in the election! I just wanted to smack someone who actually had the balls to think devil 1 was better then devil 2. When they can't see Devil 1 is devil 2! And say "Duh... I'm smart cause I'm part of the 49% that didn't vote for Bush... So We are the americans." No... You're just as stupid if not more so in thinking that!
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Just because our goverment tried to collect taxes during the civil war, doesnt make it constitutional and legal. In fact, President Lincoln suspended several rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights during that era.
And the goverment has repeatedly tried to tax us and failed....
In 1894, Congress adopted an income tax act which was declared unconstitutional in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., 157 U.S. 429, 15 S.Ct. 673, aff. reh., 158 U.S. 601, 15 S.Ct. 912 (1895). The Pollock Court found that the income tax was a direct tax which could only be imposed if the tax was apportioned; since this tax was not apportioned, it was found unconstitutional.
About the 16th amendment....
Article V of the U.S. Constitution specifies the ratification process, and requires 3/4 of the States to ratify any amendment proposed by Congress. There were 48 States in the American Union in 1913, meaning that affirmative action of 36 states was required for ratification. In February, 1913, Secretary of State Philander Knox issued a proclamation claiming that 38 states had ratified the amendment.
In 1984, William J. Benson began a research project, never before performed, to investigate the process of ratification of the 16th Amendment. After traveling to the capitols of the New England states, and reviewing the journals of the state legislative bodies, he saw that many states had not ratified the Amendment. Continuing his research at the National Archives in Washington, DC, Bill Benson discovered his Golden Key. This damning piece of evidence is a 16 page memorandum from the Solicitor of the Department of State, whose duty is the provision of legal opinions for the use of the Secretary of State. In this memorandum sent to the Secretary of State, the Solicitor of the Department of State lists the many errors he found in the ratification process!
The 4 states listed below are among the 38 states that Philander Knox claimed ratification from.
When his year long project was finished at the end of 1984, Bill had visited every state capitol and knew that not a single state had actually and legally ratified the proposal to amend the Constitution. 33 states engaged in the unauthorized activity of amending the language of the amendment proposed by congress, a power the states do not possess. Since 36 states were needed for ratification, the failure of 13 to ratify would be fatal to the amendment, and this occurs within the major (first three) defects tabulated in Defects in Ratification of the 16th Amendment. Even if we were to ignore defects of spelling, capitalization, and punctuation, we would still have only 2 states which successfully ratified.
More proof the 16th amendment is a fraud...
JOE BANISTER - Ex-IRS Special Agent, Criminal Investigation Division, Fraud Investigator. He quit the IRS when they failed to show him a law that requires Americans to file and pay income taxes. In 2004, the IRS answered Banister's questions about the legality of the income tax, by charging him with various tax crimes. The Jury found Banister not guilty of all charges last year
And no this, its not just my opinion about taxes being a fraud on us. Take a look at just a small portion of below events scheduled for this year. I think I have more than proven my point, if you wish to remain in the dark then oh well....
The "Why Won't They Answer?"
Tour Schedule
Get to the Events: Click below on your city for all the details !
Watch the LIVE Webcasts !
(scheduled times: weekdays: 8 PM EDT/ 5 PM PDT, weekends: 4 PM EDT / 1 PM PDT)
Watch the Archived Webcasts....
Latest archive: July 7: Annapolis, MD
July, 2006
1 Saturday CONCORD, MA webcast
2 Sunday CONCORD, NH webcast
3 Monday HARTFORD, CT webcast
4 Tuesday PHILADELPHIA, PA webcast
5 Wednesday TRENTON, NJ webcast
6 Thursday HARRISBURG ,PA webcast
7 Friday DOVER, DE NO EVENT
8 Saturday ANNAPOLIS, MD webcast
9 Sunday (VA) NO EVENT
10 Monday RICHMOND, VA webcast
11 Tuesday RALEIGH, NC webcast
12 Wednesday ASHEVILLE, NC webcast
13 Thursday COLUMBIA, SC
14 Friday ATLANTA, GA
15 Saturday JEKYLL ISLAND , GA
16 Sunday ORLANDO, FL
17 Monday TAMPA, FL
18 Tuesday TALLAHASSEE, FL
19 Wednesday MONTGOMERY , AL
20 Thursday JACKSON , MS
21 Friday LAFAYETTE , LA
22 Saturday HOUSTON , TX
23 Sunday AUSTIN , TX
24 Monday EL PASO, TX
25 Tuesday TUCSON , AZ
26 Wednesday PHOENIX, AZ
27 Thursday SAN DIEGO , CA
28 Friday LOS ANGELES , CA
29 Saturday HONOLULU , HI
30 Sunday MAUI, HI
31 Monday (—)
August, 2006
1 Tuesday FRESNO, CA
2 Wednesday LAS VEGAS, NV
3 Thursday FLAGSTAFF, AZ
4 Friday SANTA FE , NM
5 Saturday AMARILLO, TX
6 Sunday OKLAHOMA CITY, OK
7 Monday LITTLE ROCK, AR
8 Tuesday NASHVILLE, TN
9 Wednesday FRANKFORT/LEX, KY
10 Thursday CHARLESTON, WV
11 Friday COLUMBUS, OH
12 Saturday INDIANAPOLIS, IN
13 Sunday SPRINGFIELD, IL
14 Monday JEFFERSON CITY, MO
15 Tuesday TOPEKA, KS
16 Wednesday DENVER, CO
17 Thursday CHEYENNE, WY
18 Friday SALT LAKE CITY, UT
19 Saturday CARSON CITY, NV
20 Sunday SACRAMENTO, CA
21 Monday MEDFORD, OR
22 Tuesday SALEM, OR
23 Wednesday OLYMPIA, WA
24 Thursday JUNEAU, AK
25 Friday (—)
26 Saturday BOISE, ID
27 Sunday IDAHO FALLS, OH
28 Monday HELENA, MT
29 Tuesday BISMARCK, ND
30 Wednesday PIERRE, SD
31 Thursday LINCOLN, NE
September, 2006
1 Friday DES MOINES, IA
2 Saturday MINNEAPOLIS, MN
3 Sunday MADISON, WS
4 Monday LANSING, MI
5 Tuesday BUFFALO, NY
6 Wednesday ALBANY, NY
7 Thursday MONTPELIER, VT
8 Friday AUGUSTA, ME
9 Saturday PROVIDENCE , RI
No, we're lacking the dictator part; President W. Bush could never hope to wield the power over his nation that Fidel Castro does over his own.
We're more like a candy bar: We have a thin democratic shell on the outside and a creamy layer of capitalism within the shell mixed with a nougat consisting of affluent nuts.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Haven’t been here in a while but wow, lots of you guys are
pretty nutty. Honestly I wouldn’t even worry all that much if the government
confiscated every civilian held firearm. You can build a suppressed smg,
flamethrower, ied, or whatever you can think of with a simple trip to the
hardware store and a few tools. This country has a pretty good record of revolution;
I think we could do the job again IF needed. Chill out lol.
Actually in many European countries sound suppressors (or
the Hollywood dubbed “silencer”)
are used, and in some required to cut down on noise pollution. Most of the
users equip them so they aren’t deaf while shooting indoors, something that is
likely to happen in a self defense shooting.
But can you make 500,000 of them fast enough to fight a pre equiped/heavily armed army?
The chances of a revolution in a country with disarmed civilians is next to zero. A military coup is your only serious shot at armed resistance to the state. Americans were not unarmed when they revolted. Make no mistake.
.
I use a silencer for hunting. If nothing else it doesn't disturb the neighbours.
Yeah the yanks won't give up the IRA.
Pretty soon you'll be all alone in your war on terror.
In response to this Britain has ammended it's list of trusted nations to which we will extradite. America is no longer on that list. Co-operation withdrawn.
That treaty was signed (by us but not you) in order for you to better extradite terrorists. Instead you have used it to take bankers not deemed to have enough evidence against them to prosecute in England for the crimes said to have been commited here.
The U.S. is unwilling to ratify the treaty itself as this might force it to give up the terrorists it has been harboring. Pretty soon you will have to choose your allies, Great Britain or the IRA. Public opinion in this country will no longer support our alliance in these circumstances.