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Moral Dimensions to RPing Imperial
jonaku
Member Posts: 281
The Imperials in SWG canon were ruthless in their war activities, totalitarian, racist (against aliens) and wanted to control the entire universe. Basically, they were a thinly veiled metaphor for the Nazis or any other infamously crazed military force (Japs in WWII, today's North Korea, Saddam's Iraq).
Question: what do people get out of RPing as an Imperial? Why do they "feel proud" to be an Imp? In RL, they know the Imperial goals of "justice and order" are pure propaganda masking a truly evil goal and methodology. To me, it's like saying "Oh, I want to RP a Nazi protecting our racial purity and our sacred homeland." The values of the Imperials are fundamentally very ugly ones in RL.
This is not meant as a flame. I just don't get it... Can someone explain this to m?
Comments
As to why other people do it, all I can think of is there's a draw for many people to be part of something larger that has power. Why do so many people want to be a dark Jedi? Because they wield power, and do whatever they want. They aren't constrained by rules (well they are SUPPOSED to be, but people never do it - you don't kill unless it furthers your own selfish goals, for instance). I suppose many people who would never make the connection to Nazis in real life are nevertheless more comfortable with the idea that a single, tangible being controls their destinies if they only follow him. Dangerous stuff. I wish I had more to add, but I'm out of ideas at the moment.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
The Rebels are terrorists bent on enforcing their abstract values of freedom and equality (which simply don't work in the real world) upon the citizens of the Galaxy. The Empire represents peace and order. The Rebels bring only war and destruction.
Someone's got to play the badguys. Some people find it fun.
Real life morality and politics don't matter. Lots of people chose Imperial because it was the more mature alternative to the Rebel's teenage carebear lovefest.
I would say that the Empire is more Fascist than Nazi. Think Mussolini's Italy rather than Hitler's Germany.
In SWG I chose to go Imperial mostly as an underdog thing. Almost everyone else on the server was Rebel, so my particular rebellious nature arose and I went Imperial. Confusing, huh?
Then again, there is a certain appeal to playing characters that are typically evil. In EQ, I took delight at playing a shadowknight, necromancer, etc. I use the role-playing games to enact a style of play that is the opposite of my RL personality.
As a side note, this would probably explain why I was never excited about City of Heroes, but instead I enjoyed City of Villiains much more (until it became repetative).
To me roleplaying is just that 'roleplaying'. The character reflects nothing more than what I can imagine.
In SWG, the few times I rp'd, I played a bounty hunter. Does that mean I have some nature in me that wants to hunt people for money? No, it's just a story-line I've created.
I wish players would get more into rp, as a reflectioin of imagination, rather than take it seriously as a reflection of the person.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Early on in the game as they were trying to get the GCW going, there were many more Rebels than Imps. Everyone (except the natural bad guys) wanted to be the good guys.
Over time, they added alot of incentives to become an Imperial, so those who weren't naturally drawn to be evil, could be bought out to be on the side of evil. Very real life-like, all that.
Put simply: Some folks like playing the bad guy.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I answer rehtorical questions.
Fictional characters. I hope you dont think because I pretend to be a robber when I roleplay with the wifey that I am an immoral person. I mean I'd be somehow to you violating some morality thing by supporting robbers and rapists.
I mean you sir are geninuely
I mean how wacked in the head do you have to be to have a moral problem playing a fictional character.
I guess Lex Luthor (Kevin Spacey) is doomed to hell.
QFE.
Show me a MMO that doesn't have a "bad guy" faction/side.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
{(RIP)} SWG
I personally dont like playing on the "good" side because it just seems really corny and unrealistic. In most stories, the good side is completely righteous and the bad side is completely evil. I like how in Wow, they dont call the horde evil, they simply say that both sides are fighting for survival, each thinking they are right. That to me is more realistic than the premise of the good rebels fighting the evil imperials. So, I think the reason i chose to play Imperial is because Im rebeling against the notion that the other side are in the right completely. I think im a good person, and i think good people will be on either side, so its kind of like proving a point almost lol. It's not because i want to act "evil" lol.
For the Horde!
Real roleplaying is when you do not use "Player" knowledge to affect how you play your character... IE You play an Imperial Commando, you know that the empire destroyed a planet, but your commando (who is like a special forces guy in the army) probably knew nothing about the death star (it was a secret for ages) and yadda yadda.
Roleplaying is getting a chance at doing something you would never do in real life. Whether its playing a rebel or imperial in SWG. Actually a lot of people first frowned on Star Wars cause the name StormTroopers were eliete Nazi Death Squads... But I say nuts to them.
I personally dont like playing on the "good" side because it just seems really corny and unrealistic. In most stories, the good side is completely righteous and the bad side is completely evil. I like how in Wow, they dont call the horde evil, they simply say that both sides are fighting for survival, each thinking they are right. That to me is more realistic than the premise of the good rebels fighting the evil imperials. So, I think the reason i chose to play Imperial is because Im rebeling against the notion that the other side are in the right completely. I think im a good person, and i think good people will be on either side, so its kind of like proving a point almost lol. It's not because i want to act "evil" lol.
I don't know about WoW but I know the story line with warcraft (1-3) The horde are evil and the undead masses controled by the liche king are even more evil. I guess that isnt the same in the new game eh?
i can understand the fun of playing the "bad" guy from a generic perspective. like being a rogue that ganks newbs in WOW. love that. i guess that's what imps find appealing.
from my perspective, imps are a thinly veiled metaphor for nazis in WWII.
to me, the jedi are an allegory for the jews, since several parallels are drawn: (1) they are targetted for genocidal extinction by the nazi-esque empire (2) they are "chosen" at birth by the universal Force (3) they start with "je" in their names (4) Luke and Anakin are speculated to be the "Chosen One" (5) even in their heyday, the Jedi are a small minority group in a large universe of beings (6) but despite their size, they are considered to wield disproportionately great political power (7) the head of the empire tryng to exterminate them is in fact a jedi (just as Hitler and a few of his higher ups were in fact part Jewish).
so to me, the Imp-Jedi conflict is a transparent representation of the horrors of the Nazi gassing of Jews. in a WWII MMO, you would never see players being allowed to RP a nazi operating a gas chamber, or a japanese soldier commiting rape in Nanjing.
i guess what i am missing in my OP is that i assume that everyone else sees the imps as i do. i guess they don't. they see the imps as a generic facist force divorced from the nazi-jewish origins. which is fine with me. i just wanted to understand it, that's all.
Pre-nge we didn't deal directly with Darth Vader and Han Solo every other Tuesday. A citizen of an orderly, prosperous planet under the control of the empire might feel compelled to join the military and defend his home and country.
The rebel alliance, aka.. rebel skum... Is a terrorist organization controlled by religious fanatics. The Empire is the legitimate government at the time in which the game takes place.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
i can understand the fun of playing the "bad" guy from a generic perspective. like being a rogue that ganks newbs in WOW. love that. i guess that's what imps find appealing.
from my perspective, imps are a thinly veiled metaphor for nazis in WWII.
to me, the jedi are an allegory for the jews, since several parallels are drawn: (1) they are targetted for genocidal extinction by the nazi-esque empire (2) they are "chosen" at birth by the universal Force (3) they start with "je" in their names (4) Luke and Anakin are speculated to be the "Chosen One" (5) even in their heyday, the Jedi are a small minority group in a large universe of beings (6) but despite their size, they are considered to wield disproportionately great political power (7) the head of the empire tryng to exterminate them is in fact a jedi (just as Hitler and a few of his higher ups were in fact part Jewish).
so to me, the Imp-Jedi conflict is a transparent representation of the horrors of the Nazi gassing of Jews. in a WWII MMO, you would never see players being allowed to RP a nazi operating a gas chamber, or a japanese soldier commiting rape in Nanjing.
i guess what i am missing in my OP is that i assume that everyone else sees the imps as i do. i guess they don't. they see the imps as a generic facist force divorced from the nazi-jewish origins. which is fine with me. i just wanted to understand it, that's all.
I think you're reading too much into Star Wars. Jedi do not = Jews. Jedi were peacekeepers and soldiers, not an ethnic group. You are not born a Jedi, nor can anyone simply join the Jedi. There was no "Chosen" Jew who betrayed the Jews to the Nazis (Vader/Anakin). Almost all known Jedi were quickly and efficiently killed. There were no extermination camps, no long persecutions, etc. Palpatine is a Sith, not a Jedi. The average Imperial soldier probably has only the vaguest idea what a Jedi is, and he has certainly never seen one.
Hitler was not part Jewish.
http://veritas3.holocaust-history.org/questions/hitler-jewish.shtml
i can understand the fun of playing the "bad" guy from a generic perspective. like being a rogue that ganks newbs in WOW. love that. i guess that's what imps find appealing.
from my perspective, imps are a thinly veiled metaphor for nazis in WWII.
to me, the jedi are an allegory for the jews, since several parallels are drawn: (1) they are targetted for genocidal extinction by the nazi-esque empire (2) they are "chosen" at birth by the universal Force (3) they start with "je" in their names (4) Luke and Anakin are speculated to be the "Chosen One" (5) even in their heyday, the Jedi are a small minority group in a large universe of beings (6) but despite their size, they are considered to wield disproportionately great political power (7) the head of the empire tryng to exterminate them is in fact a jedi (just as Hitler and a few of his higher ups were in fact part Jewish).
so to me, the Imp-Jedi conflict is a transparent representation of the horrors of the Nazi gassing of Jews. in a WWII MMO, you would never see players being allowed to RP a nazi operating a gas chamber, or a japanese soldier commiting rape in Nanjing.
i guess what i am missing in my OP is that i assume that everyone else sees the imps as i do. i guess they don't. they see the imps as a generic facist force divorced from the nazi-jewish origins. which is fine with me. i just wanted to understand it, that's all.
I think you're reading too much into Star Wars. Jedi do not = Jews. Jedi were peacekeepers and soldiers, not an ethnic group. You are not born a Jedi, nor can anyone simply join the Jedi. There was no "Chosen" Jew who betrayed the Jews to the Nazis (Vader/Anakin). Almost all known Jedi were quickly and efficiently killed. There were no extermination camps, no long persecutions, etc. Palpatine is a Sith, not a Jedi. The average Imperial soldier probably has only the vaguest idea what a Jedi is, and he has certainly never seen one.
Hitler was not part Jewish.
http://veritas3.holocaust-history.org/questions/hitler-jewish.shtml
Got to give him credit though, that had to be the first story I've ever seen talking about Nazis that made me laugh. Now all I can think about is the ending to History of the World.
Why do people respect the Romans? The Greeks? The Shogunate? The United States? The British Empire? The French?
All have had Empires that we admire, but were extreamly vicious Empires. Here are a few examples:
So why do we admire these Empires?
Those who play the Empire are playing the side of Order & Power. It's Roll Playing. It's fun for me to play the Dark Power Seaker, bringing order to the Galaxy. There are many who enjoy that Roll Playing as well.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Well RP'ing an Imp honorably I think really shows how creative one can get. When I RP'ed Ulot, he didn't involve himself in a lot of the politics. He saw himself as a soldier protecting Dantooine from instability and terrorist attacks that rebels frequently launched. He was also vehemently opposed to the "old way" of immense corruption under the Old Republic. He remembered reading on the ineptness of the Imperial Senate. he reasoned that in a government that size, there needed to be swift, efficient leadership. He wasn't fighting to promote racial purity. He wasn't fighting for facism. He was fighting for order, and end to the infighting of the buercracies, and refused to back down just because "Leia wanted her tiara back."
There was a hillarious article about the Star Wars Canon in the Weekly Standard, and I did incorporate some of my RP aspects into it all.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp