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No Healers!
joereed1
Member Posts: 140
After a bad experience in WOW with my priest character getting generally abused and blamed (unfairly i thought) when we wiped in an instance. I started to think, wouldn't it make more sense not to have combat healing at all? The idea of being able to heal someone whilst they are mid battle seems pretty stupid. You could have healing when not in combat but not during.
What do people think because i think because i think priests and other healers get alot of abuse for not doing their job when it is completely unjustified.
Comments
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
I agree that they tend to get blamed hard when things do not work out. The solution is to blame someone else first. Blame the tank for not pulling the mobs off you. That one seems to really get the tanks mad. Or say that the magic users suck as their HP's are way to low and are not ready to quest where you went. I love that one- especially if the magic user is of higher level than you. After you get everyone steaming hot, tell them that the group sucks. That you've never seen a tank who couldn't pull the weak mobs off you before and that the magic users should stay in low level dungeons. Leave the group and get another. Healers have it easy as no one likes playing healers, so they are always in demand.
Problem solved.
**Editor note: Though I agree with the OP, I was being Facetious in my post**
-W.
I like playing as healer
Honestly though, I've never been blamed for anything or abused in my groups. I'm not saying that to try and make myself seem like a great player, far from it, I just must be very lucky with who I group with. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to point the finger at others for a lack in performance. If someone is not very good at playing, I try to help them enjoy the game and not get mad at them for it. Not much they can do about it.
Just try and enjoy yourself and make a little list of all those people that are extra nice to you.
but I havent seen a good solution for it. some games drop healers and bring in potion spamming, but that doesn't really work well either (imo).
In EQ2, as a wizard, I have certainly been blamed when our team got wiped when I used a nuke and drew a ton of mobs to us and people said stuff. I have also been in instances where I was getting attacked repeatedly and the healer was doing a poor job of healing me and I told them such (though in a nice-ish way).
Basically, one should know their role and practice to improve their abilities so as to function well when in a group (nothing is fun about getting your group wiped out).
I play a Priest in World of Warcraft and in Lineage II. I like both characters. I think the problem, in WoW is not the healer class, it is most definitely the immature player-base who I can see coming down hard on a healer for their demise.
If you really don't like the healer class, RF Online is a mmo without them, relying on potions only to heal in combat. If you can ignorem any of the other problems this game has, you may like it. I have to admit that I enjoyed the game for a few months, with all it's flaws, and I thought the potion-healing wasn't bad.
However, I am a group oriented type of player, and without a healer, the need to form groups becomes less.
In WOW, healing is a difficult skill to master. I played a restodruid to endgame there and it is confusing at first, until you learn the precise timing of heals. I liked the druid for a while, but I never played another heal spec since. I think you have a point about healing, but moreso because everyone else gets to actually go PVE while oyu go PHP (Player Helping Player).
To succeed as a single healer for a group in WOW, you must devote ALL of your time and mana to healing. Anything less will get you blacklisted in the endgame. But don't worry, you can sconsole yourself in the fact that almost all WOW players are complete jerks anyway, and would have disowned you regardless.
COH has a healing system where you throw out AOE heals while you fight. You can also learn healing skills latrer on instead of being forced to pick the healer achetype. The breakdown of the system is a bit smoother than in games like WOW.
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I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
They do not understand that in a mmorpg, (any mmorpg, not just WoW) that one litterally MUST rely on other team members.
2. The key to group survival is constant communication. The uber guilds in WoW use teamspeak. (It's a live, real life voice communication software. Players can talk to each other verbally.) But here are some pointers (no matter if you have Teamspeak or not.)
3. After you the healer joins a group, say in group chat "Everyone wait. I hate wipes. 6 important things first then all of us will be 100% ready." to get everyone's attention, so you can do the following pointers:
Some Healer pointers:
A. As soon as a healer/Priest etc... joins a group, ask in group chat who is the main puller. After the main puller is identified, tell everyone in group chat "I will be concentrating FIRST on healing the main puller."
Also make sure the main puller is also the group leader. (see F for why)
B. Check if a mage is in the group. If there is a mage in your group, say in group chat "Mage, please use non Area Effect spells. Use spells that damage 1 enemy at a time. Because I cannot heal both you and main puller at same time. If the mage wants to use Area Effect spells, do at your own risk. I will heal the mage only if the main puller is OK."
C. If anyone in your group has a pet (Hunter, Warlock, etc...) send each of them a whisper, and also say in the group chat "Please put all pets on Defensive Setting. Then attack AFTER the enemy is pulled. Then back to defensive setting after each battle. Please do not allow the pet to pull."
D. Tell everyone in group chat "When I run out of mana I will type the letter 'M' this means I have no more mana left. Please do NOT start new fights, do not move away from me. Do not run off."
E. After the main puller is identified, send him/her a whisper saying the following, then also type it in group chat: "Hi, I don't like getting wiped. I know you don't either. In the military the platoon every second watches the medic to make sure he's not under fire. Please watch all my sides checking for me getting attacked. Thank you!"
and....
F. Send the main puller a whisper asking if he knows about the menu to mark the target he is pulling. If he does not, then tell him to first mark the target he will be attacking/pulling first. In the group leader options menu, they can mark different targets above their heads with Triangles, Circles, etc... Tell them to then say to the group "Pulling the triangle next" etc.....
G... heheh.... if there is a Warrior in your group, he can keep aggro two ways: - Using Taunt. - or using high aggro moves like Sunder Armor. (A master Warrior knows how to go back and forth using both at same time)
Watch the warrior in battle to see if he knows what he is doing. If he is not using either Taunt, or Sunder armor, ask him to in Group chat. If he keeps refusing to, then say to the rest of the group "Sorry but if the Warrior refuses to use Sunder Armor OR Taunt, I will have to leave because I don't want to get wipe."
[Sunder Armor will appear on the enemy as stacks, numbering 2, 3, 4, 5. 5 is the limit. Sunder Armor is an instant strike. And has high chance of aggroing enemies on the Warrior. Mocking Blow is another one. Any warrior who doesnt use it is not wortth grouping with. This is how you can tell quickly if a Warrior is using Suner Armor.
If he is not using Sunder Armor, check if he is using TAUNT. If he is using Taunt instead, all enemies will instantly go after him no matter what.]
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Yes WoW is full of millions of mmorpg newbies. In the short run it seems bad, and a disaster. But in the long run, it is a NICE thing. Because the are all hardcore gamers. Once they learn how to be effective in a mmorpg, there should be less name calling, aggravation, and sutuations like what happened to you.
My final pointer, do not group in Deadmines. It's really a newbie dungeon. Meaning 98% of everyone there, it's their very first time going into a REAL dungeon in a MMORPG, they do not have in battle experience, in a group. One can solo most of Deadmines anyway after reaching level 25. If you do decide to group in DM, try to find a group in which everyone is Level 25 or higher.
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BTW what server in WoW do you play on? I might have a character on it.
From a realistic POV, it is plausable. In real life the medic is in the field with the platoon. Generally the platoon surrounds the medic, with the medic in the middle. Every soldier in the platoon/squad/company makes sure nothing happens to the medic. The medic litterally heals each soldier while they are under fire in the field. Medics carry guns, but generally much smaller guns.
From a RP Point of View, from a gamer Point of View... well... you have dragons, and all sorts of monsters existing. The idea of using magic to heal is in line with everything else.
Plus healers are not 100% healers only. They can effectivly solo with the offense they have.
I would much rather see a model where actual healing was severely limited and protective spells of vairous sorts were the main mechanics somewhat like the role of some monks in Guild Wars.
From what I can see so far, Warhammer is going to be very similar to World of Warcraft, and if Mythic is indeed going to stay away from the 100% support character, it goes right along with what I've read. The success of WOW is rubbing off on most other morpgs in development, preventing anything innovative and encouraging things that have worked so well in WoW to be copied. It's a shame.
I am looking for Age of Conan, Fallen Earth, and a select few other to maybe break this new mold.
We don't even know if they are using the silly aggro model alot of these like to use. Hopefully they trash that aggro model, its just plain stupid to have in a PvP game.
At the end of the day healers are one of the classes needed in almost every game out there and only a complete idiot goes around pissing them off. If the healer isn’t healing, then that’s a problem with the healer. If the healer is going oop it’s because they are over healing then that is the healers fault as well, but far more often they are simply being stretched beyond the capacity of their gear. Over healing should be apparent and unless you are grouping with noobs they will be willing to stay within the groups capacity.
People also need to be able to recognize when a healer is going oop because the tank doesn’t have the defenses they need or the DPS is taking too long to kill things or the crowd control isn’t reducing incoming DPS like they should. If this is the case and the healer is getting the blame for simply going oop then quite the group and put them on ignore because they don’t know what they are doing.
I can still remember one time in CSWG how the group I was in won a battle, but were soo wounded, our characters kept passing out on the ground. We'd gain concisouness for a few secs, run/walk as fast as we could towards the nearest hospital, then pass out again. It took 30 minutes to make it to the hospital. If the hospital is packed, you had to wait on line (or the floor if you were soo bad that you were passing out LOL.) for the doctor to get to you after taking care of the patients ahead of you.
WoW does have a tiny hint of what you talk about - in that some major wounds can't be healed on the spot by the healer/priest, like disease, rabies, deep wound, infected wound, etc... Though a higher level priest can heal some of the worse wounds. But even then, most higher level priests do it out of battle.
Gestalt11, I am not saying that WoW and WAR will be exact clones, but from what I have read at the WAR website, in PC Gamer, Gaming World Mag, and at Gamespot, I can compare alot of features that are similar, as well as the style and even sometimes the look of the two games.
In general, the style will be casual player friendly, with little to no penalties, simple gameplay, yet fun and exiting. This is how I view World of Warcraft, and Mythic themselves said that Warhammer may seem similar to WoW, but will indeed be a different game.
My point is not to say WoW and WAR will be clones, but to stress that today, WoW has ruled, and tomorrow, mmorpgs will try to emulate what Blizzard has done, perhaps in their own way, but they will try to succeed like Blizzard has. Therefore, innovation, new and untried features, different directions in design, all are being left by the wayside in favor of tried and true things that are making Blizzard tons of money, and what will soon make Mythic tons.
So back to the topic, Healers are not as necessary in WoW as they might be in some older mmorpgs, but at least they are still there, and maybe are seen as useful to groups. When mmorpgs remove the grouping aspect of gameplay, my opinion of them will change, because I play them for the grouping and to socialize, not to play solo among many others.
Because WoW has been so successful making a mmorpg that is easy for soloers but also has decent grouping, I think it paves the way for future games to do the same, but I am afraid that grouping, and the need for healers in particular may become less important and change mmorpgs into something I would not like as much
People bash its PvE but some aspects of it are light years ahead of anything else. Healing is still important in that game but without the enchantments its way less powerful. And there are many ways to manage damage dealing things without using healing at all. You can get whole groups of trapper rangers without a real healer.
People are too tied to tank and spank and heal, they can't think of anything else. When I spar in real life I prefer to avoid the hits. I'm too pretty to let people hit me.
The tank and spank and heael model is fundamentally non-tactical. Its about the most brute force model you could have. Its crap. Everyone has just been given hammers and now they think you solve all problems by smashing things.
Not sure where you are getting the idea that the games will be similar from. What Mythic has said about the games "Appearing alike" is in reference to the fact that Warcraft uses the same style graphics that Warhammer does and since WAR is modelled off Warhammer the graphics (especially Character models) will look familliar to those who have played WoW. Artwork will look similar... the gameplay will be completely different.
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Yes, I may have misinterpretted Mythics comments when they were taking about World of Warcraft in that article I read. I know they said the two game may appear similar, I didn't realize they meant it literally.
I know the two games will be different, especially in the features and game mechanics you've pointed out. However, I still see the two games being fairly similar in the general gameplay. That being gameplay that can appeal to the casual gamer, yet still be fun for the core gamers and PvPers.
My examples - Age of Conan and Fallen Earth, are examples of mmorpgs that are doing some things differently. I'm not saying that World of Warcraft is bad, and that WAR will be bad. All I wanted to point out is that from what I understand about WAR, it is not going to include anything "new" or innovative. I think they are trying to make the game familiar to the general mmorpg crowd.
In Age of Conan and Fallen Earth, as well as a few others, I beleive we will see somethings that we've not see in mmorpgs before. So the comparison I really mean to make is just general way these games will be, without getting down to the specifics.
Yeah, I've also had the idea that after a particularly ridiculous battle, I must've regenerated 500 pounds of flesh in that fight alone. I agree with the idea of the tank/healer arragement being a brute-force model and it can be innovated on in some many novel ways.
A support character could protect allies without healing by augmenting their allies defensive abilities in a number of ways. Guild Wars actually does allow for a ton of such options, but they are rarely used properly, since they require so much better timing and coordination in a team. Using shadow of fear, auspicious parry, watch yourself, imagined burden, kiting, traps and minions to absorb all enemy damage is much trickier in practice than just assigning a tank, having him hold aggro, and chain healing him.
Perhaps in future games the design could be slanted away from healing by making it infinitely more resource efficient to use the above abilities, so that healing becomes known as an extremely wasteful way of fighting, and everyone is required to pay a lot more attention to their own defense in combat.
Instead, in Guild Wars (and moreso in many other games) it's so much more feasible to use 5 energy to heal half of someone's health every 5 seconds than to use 15 energy on an imagined burden to slow a single enemy while your allies keep their distance from him.
You are right it is harder to do and more challenging but isn't that kinda the point as you play one of these games longer and longer. Tank,spank,heal is considered the pinacle of games like WoW and EQ but they are really just kindergarten.
GW proves there are alot of interesting mechanics out there that are effective and can be utilized by designers. But instead we just get timesinks and are told that time=challenge and that we can't do anything but heal until you might as well have cloned someone 10 times. And stupid aggro mechanics that coddle people. The aggro mechanics are so stupid that they become immediately useless against anything with intelligence above the level of, well, an ant. I mean I can't even use some kinda stupid mammal to compare how dumb the aggro mechanics of WoW/EQ are. There is no mammal that is as tactically stupid as the mobs in games like WoW/EQ. You have to go down to the level insects where brains are more regulatory than thinking.
Its true it is easier to chain heal etc. That is because its is the simplest and therefore least challenging. People talk about how we need to reward challenge but they don't reward real challenge or evn encourage the more advanced tactics you mentioned. Instead they reward the least challenging, least advanced tactics. And then they compound the problem by saying timesinks=challenge. Bah.
I think that mmorpgs of the future would still do well to include healers and various different types of character roles, but maybe they can be used in a different way. For example, instead of the Healer doing the traditional healing in the midst of battle, getting the timing right and keeping an eye on mana or power to ensure the well-being of his teammates, perhaps a healer would fight as a Warrior would, with deadly weapons and with great skill, but then after the battle ends, he takes care of the wounded, having them heal up quickly for the next battle.
I really like the idea of healers just for their contributions to roleplay in mmorpgs. Priests, Clerics, Druids, etc. are interesting character classes to me. Maybe they've just been done so similarly in the past and we need a new outlook on them?
D&D purposely made it so you can't just spam heals. Part of D&D is that each spell is important and you gotta budget them over your entire non-rest phase. Iunderstand the mechanics of the games are different since you wnat gameplay to be fun and things happen fast in realtime RPG's. But the point still stands. The comparison is pretty telling. No one is gonna say Clerics is D&D were worthless.
They have made MMORPG's into a tetris-like keep this bar around this level while keeping the blue bar above this level minigame that the entire world for that MMO revolves around. If you can't find someone that plays that simplistic minigame well the rest of the game is worthless. Its crazy.