is there a point somewhere here? I dont think that current fanbase of DF will be the only ones playing DF when/if it comes out... so errr, yea most guilds will be formed during the actual gameplay.
The current fanbase of DF consists in a few, highly competitive, raiding style guilds. Courted specifically by the devs to hype the game, in exchange for access to the development staff, a louder voice at the table, and perks that the normal subscriber will never have.
This is why this whole closed beta for clans only cannot bode well for the game's success. If the game was in any shape to be the kind of freeform experience it attests itself to be, they'd hold open beta.
Right now, it doesn't look like much is there for anyone that isn't a big twink in a big clan.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by EndDream This game is not vapor wear!
False until proven true. Until it's released, it's vaporware through and through.
Actually, technically speaking, it's only 'vaporware' till there is a playable beta. Otherwise I agree... Right now it's interesting and promising vaporware... but nothing more. It is, however, worth keeping an eye on.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Hyping a game on the general forum before it's been released or you've played it, is ignorant.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Jorev Hyping a game on the general forum before it's been released or you've played it, is ignorant.
In any other case, I would have said that is precisely what hype is - hence all the hype rating all over this site. But in Darkfalls case ... it is just not worth mentioning anymore.
Nah, I am a firm believer also, and a big fanboi I am afraid. I know these guys, even played in other mmorpgs with some of the devs. So I know they are likeminded players, big pvp fans. They are on the right track and they seem to stick to their original gameplan keeping their focus.
It's not just bullshit, when they say they are creating a next-gen mmorpg. It's not just some label they are putting out there, take a look at the features - they are really taking it to the next level. And from ingame movies and screenshots, I know it will be good too. Graphics look really nice imo, while keeping it low enough polycount wise to still allow for massive battles with hundreds of players with different ping times.
I really think/hope DF will be the mmorpg. Unlike every other upcoming mmorpg, including games like DnL, Mourning, Conan, Warhammer, etc. These other games I never believe(d) in, since it's pretty easy to see Conan will be a GW clone thing with battleground instanced pvp, and Warhammer will be a WOW clone, and DnL + Mourning just looked like shit from the get go and all along.
i have seen first hand the launch of mourning and dnl, and what diferentiates the devs of df from the others is that they dont sound like idiots, pure and simple
besides it is the only real pvp game in development with these kind of inovations (Warhammer and AOC should never under any circumstance be considered PVP, more like watered down PVP)
Originally posted by paade is there a point somewhere here? I dont think that current fanbase of DF will be the only ones playing DF when/if it comes out... so errr, yea most guilds will be formed during the actual gameplay.
The current fanbase of DF consists in a few, highly competitive, raiding style guilds. Courted specifically by the devs to hype the game, in exchange for access to the development staff, a louder voice at the table, and perks that the normal subscriber will never have.
This is why this whole closed beta for clans only cannot bode well for the game's success. If the game was in any shape to be the kind of freeform experience it attests itself to be, they'd hold open beta.
Right now, it doesn't look like much is there for anyone that isn't a big twink in a big clan.
complete and utter BS.
I belong to a clan that has access to open beta when/if it starts. Do i have some special voice in DF development? errr no. Do i get some perks when game launches? ummm no. Is the clan, where im listed, some huge secret society right beside the developers? ehh no, its actually just a list of names that has many WoW players. I know only 1 person from that list. Clans only beta? again no. Individual players get to beta test in open beta too, its just that clans get to sign up for beta much earlier.
Originally posted by Elnator Actually, technically speaking, it's only 'vaporware' till there is a playable beta. Otherwise I agree... Right now it's interesting and promising vaporware... but nothing more. It is, however, worth keeping an eye on.
There was a closed beta,but QFT otherwise. You've probably summed it up quite well there.
complete and utter BS.
I belong to a clan that has access to open beta when/if it starts. Do i have some special voice in DF development? errr no. Do i get some perks when game launches? ummm no. Is the clan, where im listed, some huge secret society right beside the developers? ehh no, its actually just a list of names that has many WoW players. I know only 1 person from that list. Clans only beta? again no. Individual players get to beta test in open beta too, its just that clans get to sign up for beta much earlier.
Also QFT. I'm still waiting for the day open beta comes out,and the only time 'vaporware' will be used is an accurate description of what'll happen to my next victim.
well... the game sure is controvercial... the updates are very frequent nowadays and adventurine was at E3granted they didnt have a booth, but they did have a playable demo) as well as gamex... i do not think its vaporwear.... if it is.. they are going the extra mile over and over again to make it not appear so... people look at 3 year old screenshots... and say it sucks.. we shall see tho.. wont me
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Suitepee Originally posted by Gameloading Its amazing how people already claim "this mmorpg will be the best of all time" only based on words of developers and a couple of screenshots.didn't you learn anything from Dark & Light and Age of Mourning?I haven't forgotten optimism,buddy. Unlike you,I'm not letting two POS games make a mark on any future game. DnL sounded crap long before it was released; beta feedback was overall in the NEGATIVE. I judge each game based on its individual performance,not by generalising all in-development MMO's to two games solely. There's also been an alpha gameplay video released,tons of information (they keep coming too) about the game and a closed beta for some to enjoy for us to judge from. Darkfall will be judged on its beta release,not by moronic people like you who think every future MMO must be compared to 'Dark and Light' and 'Age of Mourning'. Much like the people who think every MMO must also be compared to the 'mountain that is WOW'. moronic people? thank you. Its a shame people have to use insults in replies these daysall that information are words by developers.what I am saying, is that you should first actually play the game before you call it the holy grail.
If you dont realize that darkfall "if Succesful" WILL BE THE HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's then your the moron.
Please offend me more...putting dark and light/mourning up there with darkfall? Are you kidding me? This is how I see it, you take all the bugginess and lag out of mourning, dark and light-- and then compare it to a equally tech succesful Darkfall and THERES NO COMPARISON. Darkfall > all
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Suitepee Originally posted by Gameloading Its amazing how people already claim "this mmorpg will be the best of all time" only based on words of developers and a couple of screenshots.didn't you learn anything from Dark & Light and Age of Mourning?
I haven't forgotten optimism,buddy. Unlike you,I'm not letting two POS games make a mark on any future game. DnL sounded crap long before it was released; beta feedback was overall in the NEGATIVE. I judge each game based on its individual performance,not by generalising all in-development MMO's to two games solely. There's also been an alpha gameplay video released,tons of information (they keep coming too) about the game and a closed beta for some to enjoy for us to judge from. Darkfall will be judged on its beta release,not by moronic people like you who think every future MMO must be compared to 'Dark and Light' and 'Age of Mourning'. Much like the people who think every MMO must also be compared to the 'mountain that is WOW'. moronic people? thank you. Its a shame people have to use insults in replies these daysall that information are words by developers.what I am saying, is that you should first actually play the game before you call it the holy grail.
If you dont realize that darkfall "if Succesful" WILL BE THE HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's then your the moron.
Please offend me more...putting dark and light/mourning up there with darkfall? Are you kidding me? This is how I see it, you take all the bugginess and lag out of mourning, dark and light-- and then compare it to a equally tech succesful Darkfall and THERES NO COMPARISON. Darkfall > all
Actually, Darkfall COULD be a holy grail of MMORPG's... or the gameplay implementation could suck and it'll never be more than a niche game.
Don't put too much faith in news releases and developer promises. Look at Darkfall for what it is: A promising title that is worth watching. Until you actually PLAY the game, however, don't get your hopes up.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Actually, Darkfall COULD be a holy grail of MMORPG's... or the gameplay implementation could suck and it'll never be more than a niche game.
Don't put too much faith in news releases and developer promises. Look at Darkfall for what it is: A promising title that is worth watching. Until you actually PLAY the game, however, don't get your hopes up.
It totally depends on when you consider an MMORPG to be a holy grail. the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined. its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
Oh yeah Swg and EQ2 and WoW and EvEonline and AO and Face of mankind and MxO and...ok ill stop.
Tell me does anyone see a pattern here?
My point is this:Even if devs say a game is grind free it wont be.By providing ANY kind of endgame they lose customers.
Just before games are released the hype amongst it's fanbase will go into a near frenzy mode only to be a huge letdown in the end.(there are exceptions in everyone's mind of course.)
Ive quit playing mmo's for 1 reason alone:Mmo's are not fun.
If devs put half the money into making the game fun as they do hyping it they might get more customers.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Elnator Actually, Darkfall COULD be a holy grail of MMORPG's... or the gameplay implementation could suck and it'll never be more than a niche game.
Don't put too much faith in news releases and developer promises. Look at Darkfall for what it is: A promising title that is worth watching. Until you actually PLAY the game, however, don't get your hopes up.
It totally depends on when you consider an MMORPG to be a holy grail. the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined. its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want. You've been brainwashed by games like World of Warcraft and EverQuest. Think Ultima Online here (before Trammel).
You're making such a big deal out of saying PvE and PvP. In Darkfall you live. Every action you make affects the world, unlike MMORPGs like World of Warcraft where everyone is the same. Players train their skills by practicing them on monsters and players. There is no grind from level 1-60 where everyone follows the same zone path. You decide where you want to go whenever you want to go, and there will be evil players along the way that want to kill/loot you. Darkfall is all about choices.
So instead of trying to define Darkfall as a PvP or PvE game, just think of it as a very open-ended game with a lot of freedom. You aren't supposed to go out and kill 5 level 10 rats and skin their fur for Johnny, you're supposed to raise an empire and make your mark on the world.
No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want.
Be anything I want to be? So the first second I am in the game I can swing my sword forever killing all past, present and future opponents making me the winner of the game and permanent leader of the game universe?
Can I be a death star operator? I am free to put incredible limits on other peoples game play? What restrictions are there on this freedom?
A quote I found at IGN....one of the first Previews about the game:
"Darkfall has been in development for approximately five years, which is bound to raise some questions. During this period, the competitive landscape has changed, with more PvP online worlds in service now than ever before. The team members have little previous experience making computer games. The SF3D engine technology is unproven, and so are the server and network code, assuming Aventurine is using its own. On the publicity front, the game has had limited visibility."
Below is what I personally think really:
This quote above taught me not to expect anything great from DF.....I have no high hopes for the game. What they are saying is many of the lead devs are inexperienced in game making. They have never had a past of making games....I'm not talking about the whole of of the Dev team, cause I'm sure they have some experienced programmers and graphics designers. But it explains the hold up and why the game is taking so long....my assumption. I think they said they are taking their time as an excuse instead of saying...we are still figuring out how increase the frame rate, so it won't look like a slide show....thats just an assumption and example of what I think.
They only recently fixed the limited visibility of information, but what annoys me is that the constant weekly releases of information have 90% repetition of what I already know. They did start releasing more interviews and previews possibly because of what happened to DnL after its big release because they were always so silent towards their community. I am thinking the DF devs got worried of the impression people will have about Vapourware games, as they currently do....and we know because its happening. I am not saying DF will follow DnL's footsteps, but I think before the recent past increase in information releases, they were as quiet as DnL was. You have to keep that in mind, they maybe releasing more information to not give the impression that they are a DnL flop Clone, because they were in the past very very very silent towards their community, as DnL devs were.
Lastly...I find the DF devs to be quite unprofessional. I mean they don't have a proper Community Manager....or Community Management team. It worries me because the closest thing we have to a community manager is Brannoc, who is to my knowledge not even an employee to them and to be honest I think he's a *******. What comes next into my mind, is whats going to happen at release.....and then RV comes to mind, because it has the same kind of Community Manager (who is outside the loop (team) really) same as Face of Mankind has Smoker (who is a total *******). Those two games have barely a community management team same as DF and whats worse is the tech support for both those games is slow and horrible....so I can imagine release to have very little support for DF aswell. Unlike games with 2-3 employed and payed community managers/whatever in a community management team, keeping the community well informed. The Community Managers are responsible for feedback from the community and also whats best for the community. They are literally the key link between the devs and the Communty (player base). They also handle the advertising and such of the game. I just get the impression Darkfall is being made with a rather high budget, but still developed like a low budget game would be. And we know how those have turned out till now. I mean if they have such a high budget with their very wealthy investors, why can't they afford to employ a proper community manager? And why can't they work fast then a low budget dev team?
By the way, this game is nowhere close to beta. If it was, there would be an advertising campaign about it, probably, same as any other big budget game would have. Darkfall has a big budget, and most know that. You'd think they wouldn't take this long if they knew how to make the game.
Lastly I hate how they have come up with so many new promises and features that weren't even really desired for the game initially. I mean the importance of weather and how it will effect when a ship can move, the ship features and all that...I think its a little too much. Why couldn't they just focus on the basic game concept that everyone initially wanted and left the ship thing for later. I think they promised a bit too much, and now have to implement it all, and I'm worried it will become a mess.
Anyway, sorry, anything that seemed like a statement or fact was just my personal opinion really. I just think that based on what I've seen from the devs, I believe they really aren't that great. And in my theory, which to me makes a lot of sense, you need good devs to make a good game. Sorry for such a long post, I hope some of you may read it, and I hope some of it makes sense to you too.
Originally posted by Berserk3r Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Elnator Actually, Darkfall COULD be a holy grail of MMORPG's... or the gameplay implementation could suck and it'll never be more than a niche game.
Don't put too much faith in news releases and developer promises. Look at Darkfall for what it is: A promising title that is worth watching. Until you actually PLAY the game, however, don't get your hopes up.
It totally depends on when you consider an MMORPG to be a holy grail. the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined. its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want. You've been brainwashed by games like World of Warcraft and EverQuest. Think Ultima Online here (before Trammel).
You're making such a big deal out of saying PvE and PvP. In Darkfall you live. Every action you make affects the world, unlike MMORPGs like World of Warcraft where everyone is the same. Players train their skills by practicing them on monsters and players. There is no grind from level 1-60 where everyone follows the same zone path. You decide where you want to go whenever you want to go, and there will be evil players along the way that want to kill/loot you. Darkfall is all about choices.
So instead of trying to define Darkfall as a PvP or PvE game, just think of it as a very open-ended game with a lot of freedom. You aren't supposed to go out and kill 5 level 10 rats and skin their fur for Johnny, you're supposed to raise an empire and make your mark on the world.
Assuming they ever finish the game..........which I'm not so sure they ever will launch.........(this is probably the funniest part, its over 3 years late from its original release date, I don't think this game is going to make it out the launch door to be honest, so arguing over it is pretty pointless)
The problem with open PvP and saying they will have mass appear is this..........it will not have mass appeal, it never has. Uncontrolled open PvP invites PK and griefing and the vast majority of people don't really care for it. Sorry, that is the market trend. You can't argue with it.
Although PvP on controlled terms generally does very well. (see WoW and GW, for example) there is no exmple of a truely successful open PvP game in the western market. Although L2 is an open system, it has "checks and balances" so its not truely "free". On top of it, it didn't do well in the western market. Westerners "didn't get it" and found the grind to difficult.
So to say an open PvP game will have mass appeal is a shakey statement at best. I'm all for freedom of action myself but without a balance, it isn't freedom anymore...its chaos. It will be a bunch of asshat kids killing all the new people at the spawn points just like the old AC - Darktide. You see what happened to that....its dead...just like most of the open PvP games....Shadowbane didn't do to well either, Wolfpack is gone now.
Most players like PvP but want some form of control thrown in, sorry, thats just how it is.
Well, I think you have the wrong belief about Darkfall. It will eventually reach release, I just don't think it will be good. You should read my above post.
I also mentioned they have a large amount of funding, so they can afford whatever and can develop the game as long as they want. But to be honest, I think its an excuse, taking your time to make a game....its never been heard of in the history of software development. Especially on a high budget!!
Anyway I think its just an excuse cause they aren't exactly the best of developers and probably encounter a lot of difficult problems. Remember, they really are making a very difficult to make game and we haven't seen any real proof that its really comming together.
I think its going to be one big mess with all the features they've promised and and announced.
Originally posted by wjrasmussen Originally posted by Berserk3r No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want.
Be anything I want to be? So the first second I am in the game I can swing my sword forever killing all past, present and future opponents making me the winner of the game and permanent leader of the game universe?
Can I be a death star operator? I am free to put incredible limits on other peoples game play? What restrictions are there on this freedom?
Way to make yourself look like a smart ass. What I meant was that you can play the game you want outside of the skill system (to a degree, of course) but still so much more freely than in any other game to date. You will never be caved in by a "class" or anything. You can go out of your way to call yourself a professional looter or a role-playing killer. This is the freedom that I'm speaking of. If that doesn't sound exciting to you, then you should stick to your Friday night Molten Core raids.
There are still consequences and whatnot. Otherwise the world would be total chaos, and that type of FFA PvP would never work. By consequences I mean that if you kill someone of your own race who is of "good" standing, then you will take a hit to your racial alignment.
Originally posted by Torak You see what happened to that....its dead...just like most of the open PvP games....Shadowbane didn't do to well either, Wolfpack is gone now. Most players like PvP but want some form of control thrown in, sorry, thats just how it is.
Shadowbane is still alive and kicking,thanks very much. And there's no excessive PvP 'asshats' in there either.
QFT on second sentence I quoted. DFO does have 'controls' however; an alignment system of Good/Evil. Evil people cannot trade openly in towns. However,DFO doesn't punish a lifestyle like that because they could always trade with other players. Neverthless,I'm pretty sure this alignment system will keep some people from PK'ing pointlessly.
Mikey; erm wow,that's probably the first time someone has actually made a in-depth criticism of DFO. The only way to judge how DFO will do is to observe the reaction to the beta. And at least it seems they are willing to make it work,rather THAN rushing it out.
IF (big 'if') they're having fps problems, fine; they spend the time to fix them and when beta is released,people won't have fps problems. If they're having bad animations, fine; let them attune them so no problems there.
DFO's team doesn't sound like the type to just roll over and die after 5 years; in fact the fact it's taking them 5 years probably means THEY ARE AWARE that they're not a big company and being smaller they will have some limitations in terms of speed to make a product,and then the anticipated reaction from when they release a beta. I believe they'd rather go into 2007 still working on a nice,polished beta than rush it out 2006 and meet immediate disaster. (they have said '2006 is their ambitious target for beta release'.)
Btw,they are beginning 'clan beta' signups, which I'm led to believe is a way for pre-organised DFO clans to get their open beta arrangements done EARLIER than those doing it solo,but by NO MEANS meaning they'll get in earlier than everyone else when beta comes. It's possibly a way for the DFO devs to judge how many 'clans' will be playing DFO beta,and thus create and form the appropriate number of 'clanstones' for their cities.
Personally mikey,you also sound like a person who'd be dying to play DFO and eat your own pessimistic words. But at least you've made some good points. The only way to truely counter them would be to see a beta release; but for now I'm pretty convinced a lot of people would like to see DFO be a success; they're just worried it wont.
I wouldn't judge the moderators on the DFO forums to be 'accurate' representatives of the DFO devs or anything,like Brannoc. There are also some nice mods on there I've noticed (Paramonsiaiac guy is good),but personally I think the (at least majority of) DFO devs are all hard at work making their game seem right,rather than speaking to the players on the forums. That can come en masse later,and I take this to be another positive sign that they'd rather work on the game (and make Vault announcements every now and then) than be around on the forums themselves. I'm sure the forum moderators on DFO will do an ok job for now.
It's basically just a case of "game with potential". We can't really say much more than that,for now.....
Comments
The current fanbase of DF consists in a few, highly competitive, raiding style guilds. Courted specifically by the devs to hype the game, in exchange for access to the development staff, a louder voice at the table, and perks that the normal subscriber will never have.
This is why this whole closed beta for clans only cannot bode well for the game's success. If the game was in any shape to be the kind of freeform experience it attests itself to be, they'd hold open beta.
Right now, it doesn't look like much is there for anyone that isn't a big twink in a big clan.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
False until proven true. Until it's released, it's vaporware through and through.
False until proven true. Until it's released, it's vaporware through and through.
Actually, technically speaking, it's only 'vaporware' till there is a playable beta. Otherwise I agree... Right now it's interesting and promising vaporware... but nothing more. It is, however, worth keeping an eye on.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
In any other case, I would have said that is precisely what hype is - hence all the hype rating all over this site. But in Darkfalls case ... it is just not worth mentioning anymore.
- forgetitbar
No its not vapor wear, its vaporware
Nah, I am a firm believer also, and a big fanboi I am afraid. I know these guys, even played in other mmorpgs with some of the devs. So I know they are likeminded players, big pvp fans. They are on the right track and they seem to stick to their original gameplan keeping their focus.
It's not just bullshit, when they say they are creating a next-gen mmorpg. It's not just some label they are putting out there, take a look at the features - they are really taking it to the next level. And from ingame movies and screenshots, I know it will be good too. Graphics look really nice imo, while keeping it low enough polycount wise to still allow for massive battles with hundreds of players with different ping times.
I really think/hope DF will be the mmorpg. Unlike every other upcoming mmorpg, including games like DnL, Mourning, Conan, Warhammer, etc. These other games I never believe(d) in, since it's pretty easy to see Conan will be a GW clone thing with battleground instanced pvp, and Warhammer will be a WOW clone, and DnL + Mourning just looked like shit from the get go and all along.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
i believe in darkfall
i have seen first hand the launch of mourning and dnl, and what diferentiates the devs of df from the others is that they dont sound like idiots, pure and simple
besides it is the only real pvp game in development with these kind of inovations (Warhammer and AOC should never under any circumstance be considered PVP, more like watered down PVP)
The current fanbase of DF consists in a few, highly competitive, raiding style guilds. Courted specifically by the devs to hype the game, in exchange for access to the development staff, a louder voice at the table, and perks that the normal subscriber will never have.
This is why this whole closed beta for clans only cannot bode well for the game's success. If the game was in any shape to be the kind of freeform experience it attests itself to be, they'd hold open beta.
Right now, it doesn't look like much is there for anyone that isn't a big twink in a big clan.
complete and utter BS.
I belong to a clan that has access to open beta when/if it starts. Do i have some special voice in DF development? errr no. Do i get some perks when game launches? ummm no. Is the clan, where im listed, some huge secret society right beside the developers? ehh no, its actually just a list of names that has many WoW players. I know only 1 person from that list.
Clans only beta? again no. Individual players get to beta test in open beta too, its just that clans get to sign up for beta much earlier.
There was a closed beta,but QFT otherwise. You've probably summed it up quite well there.
complete and utter BS.
I belong to a clan that has access to open beta when/if it starts. Do i have some special voice in DF development? errr no. Do i get some perks when game launches? ummm no. Is the clan, where im listed, some huge secret society right beside the developers? ehh no, its actually just a list of names that has many WoW players. I know only 1 person from that list.
Clans only beta? again no. Individual players get to beta test in open beta too, its just that clans get to sign up for beta much earlier.
Also QFT. I'm still waiting for the day open beta comes out,and the only time 'vaporware' will be used is an accurate description of what'll happen to my next victim.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
If you dont realize that darkfall "if Succesful" WILL BE THE HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's then your the moron.
Please offend me more...putting dark and light/mourning up there with darkfall? Are you kidding me? This is how I see it, you take all the bugginess and lag out of mourning, dark and light-- and then compare it to a equally tech succesful Darkfall and THERES NO COMPARISON. Darkfall > all
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
If you dont realize that darkfall "if Succesful" WILL BE THE HOLY GRAIL OF MMO's then your the moron.
Please offend me more...putting dark and light/mourning up there with darkfall? Are you kidding me? This is how I see it, you take all the bugginess and lag out of mourning, dark and light-- and then compare it to a equally tech succesful Darkfall and THERES NO COMPARISON. Darkfall > all
then I'm proud to be a moron.
Don't put too much faith in news releases and developer promises. Look at Darkfall for what it is:
A promising title that is worth watching. Until you actually PLAY the game, however, don't get your hopes up.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined.
its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
Oh yeah Swg and EQ2 and WoW and EvEonline and AO and Face of mankind and MxO and...ok ill stop.
Tell me does anyone see a pattern here?
My point is this:Even if devs say a game is grind free it wont be.By providing ANY kind of endgame they lose customers.
Just before games are released the hype amongst it's fanbase will go into a near frenzy mode only to be a huge letdown in the end.(there are exceptions in everyone's mind of course.)
Ive quit playing mmo's for 1 reason alone:Mmo's are not fun.
If devs put half the money into making the game fun as they do hyping it they might get more customers.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined.
its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want. You've been brainwashed by games like World of Warcraft and EverQuest. Think Ultima Online here (before Trammel).
You're making such a big deal out of saying PvE and PvP. In Darkfall you live. Every action you make affects the world, unlike MMORPGs like World of Warcraft where everyone is the same. Players train their skills by practicing them on monsters and players. There is no grind from level 1-60 where everyone follows the same zone path. You decide where you want to go whenever you want to go, and there will be evil players along the way that want to kill/loot you. Darkfall is all about choices.
So instead of trying to define Darkfall as a PvP or PvE game, just think of it as a very open-ended game with a lot of freedom. You aren't supposed to go out and kill 5 level 10 rats and skin their fur for Johnny, you're supposed to raise an empire and make your mark on the world.
It's the rabid fanbase that does most of the hyping.
Be anything I want to be? So the first second I am in the game I can swing my sword forever killing all past, present and future opponents making me the winner of the game and permanent leader of the game universe?
Can I be a death star operator? I am free to put incredible limits on other peoples game play? What restrictions are there on this freedom?
A quote I found at IGN....one of the first Previews about the game:
"Darkfall has been in development for approximately five years, which is
bound to raise some questions. During this period, the competitive
landscape has changed, with more PvP online worlds in service now than
ever before. The team members have little previous experience making
computer games. The SF3D engine technology is unproven, and so are the
server and network code, assuming Aventurine is using its own. On the
publicity front, the game has had limited visibility."
Below is what I personally think really:
This quote above taught me not to expect anything great from DF.....I have no high hopes for the game. What they are saying is many of the lead devs are inexperienced in game making. They have never had a past of making games....I'm not talking about the whole of of the Dev team, cause I'm sure they have some experienced programmers and graphics designers. But it explains the hold up and why the game is taking so long....my assumption. I think they said they are taking their time as an excuse instead of saying...we are still figuring out how increase the frame rate, so it won't look like a slide show....thats just an assumption and example of what I think.
They only recently fixed the limited visibility of information, but what annoys me is that the constant weekly releases of information have 90% repetition of what I already know. They did start releasing more interviews and previews possibly because of what happened to DnL after its big release because they were always so silent towards their community. I am thinking the DF devs got worried of the impression people will have about Vapourware games, as they currently do....and we know because its happening. I am not saying DF will follow DnL's footsteps, but I think before the recent past increase in information releases, they were as quiet as DnL was. You have to keep that in mind, they maybe releasing more information to not give the impression that they are a DnL flop Clone, because they were in the past very very very silent towards their community, as DnL devs were.
Lastly...I find the DF devs to be quite unprofessional. I mean they don't have a proper Community Manager....or Community Management team. It worries me because the closest thing we have to a community manager is Brannoc, who is to my knowledge not even an employee to them and to be honest I think he's a *******. What comes next into my mind, is whats going to happen at release.....and then RV comes to mind, because it has the same kind of Community Manager (who is outside the loop (team) really) same as Face of Mankind has Smoker (who is a total *******). Those two games have barely a community management team same as DF and whats worse is the tech support for both those games is slow and horrible....so I can imagine release to have very little support for DF aswell. Unlike games with 2-3 employed and payed community managers/whatever in a community management team, keeping the community well informed. The Community Managers are responsible for feedback from the community and also whats best for the community. They are literally the key link between the devs and the Communty (player base). They also handle the advertising and such of the game. I just get the impression Darkfall is being made with a rather high budget, but still developed like a low budget game would be. And we know how those have turned out till now. I mean if they have such a high budget with their very wealthy investors, why can't they afford to employ a proper community manager? And why can't they work fast then a low budget dev team?
By the way, this game is nowhere close to beta. If it was, there would be an advertising campaign about it, probably, same as any other big budget game would have. Darkfall has a big budget, and most know that. You'd think they wouldn't take this long if they knew how to make the game.
Lastly I hate how they have come up with so many new promises and features that weren't even really desired for the game initially. I mean the importance of weather and how it will effect when a ship can move, the ship features and all that...I think its a little too much. Why couldn't they just focus on the basic game concept that everyone initially wanted and left the ship thing for later. I think they promised a bit too much, and now have to implement it all, and I'm worried it will become a mess.
Anyway, sorry, anything that seemed like a statement or fact was just my personal opinion really. I just think that based on what I've seen from the devs, I believe they really aren't that great. And in my theory, which to me makes a lot of sense, you need good devs to make a good game. Sorry for such a long post, I hope some of you may read it, and I hope some of it makes sense to you too.
Have to put something up!
the game focus too much on PVP, and its already pretty clear the PVE will be ruined.
its very, very difficult to create groundbreaking pvp AND PvE.
but maybe I'm going against my own words, and should see when the game is released, but judging from the feature list,and the gameplay movies the PVE seems a bit of low
No, no, no, no, no! It's YOU that has it all wrong. Obviously, you really don't know anything about Darkfall. The PvP isn't some crazy idea where you go into battlegrounds and capture flags. The entire world is open PvP, even in the starting racial cities. There is no "PvP system", it's just a game with the freedom to be whatever you want. You've been brainwashed by games like World of Warcraft and EverQuest. Think Ultima Online here (before Trammel).
You're making such a big deal out of saying PvE and PvP. In Darkfall you live. Every action you make affects the world, unlike MMORPGs like World of Warcraft where everyone is the same. Players train their skills by practicing them on monsters and players. There is no grind from level 1-60 where everyone follows the same zone path. You decide where you want to go whenever you want to go, and there will be evil players along the way that want to kill/loot you. Darkfall is all about choices.
So instead of trying to define Darkfall as a PvP or PvE game, just think of it as a very open-ended game with a lot of freedom. You aren't supposed to go out and kill 5 level 10 rats and skin their fur for Johnny, you're supposed to raise an empire and make your mark on the world.
Assuming they ever finish the game..........which I'm not so sure they ever will launch.........(this is probably the funniest part, its over 3 years late from its original release date, I don't think this game is going to make it out the launch door to be honest, so arguing over it is pretty pointless)
The problem with open PvP and saying they will have mass appear is this..........it will not have mass appeal, it never has. Uncontrolled open PvP invites PK and griefing and the vast majority of people don't really care for it. Sorry, that is the market trend. You can't argue with it.
Although PvP on controlled terms generally does very well. (see WoW and GW, for example) there is no exmple of a truely successful open PvP game in the western market. Although L2 is an open system, it has "checks and balances" so its not truely "free". On top of it, it didn't do well in the western market. Westerners "didn't get it" and found the grind to difficult.
So to say an open PvP game will have mass appeal is a shakey statement at best. I'm all for freedom of action myself but without a balance, it isn't freedom anymore...its chaos. It will be a bunch of asshat kids killing all the new people at the spawn points just like the old AC - Darktide. You see what happened to that....its dead...just like most of the open PvP games....Shadowbane didn't do to well either, Wolfpack is gone now.
Most players like PvP but want some form of control thrown in, sorry, thats just how it is.
I also mentioned they have a large amount of funding, so they can afford whatever and can develop the game as long as they want. But to be honest, I think its an excuse, taking your time to make a game....its never been heard of in the history of software development. Especially on a high budget!!
Anyway I think its just an excuse cause they aren't exactly the best of developers and probably encounter a lot of difficult problems. Remember, they really are making a very difficult to make game and we haven't seen any real proof that its really comming together.
I think its going to be one big mess with all the features they've promised and and announced.
Have to put something up!
Be anything I want to be? So the first second I am in the game I can swing my sword forever killing all past, present and future opponents making me the winner of the game and permanent leader of the game universe?
Can I be a death star operator? I am free to put incredible limits on other peoples game play? What restrictions are there on this freedom?
Way to make yourself look like a smart ass. What I meant was that you can play the game you want outside of the skill system (to a degree, of course) but still so much more freely than in any other game to date. You will never be caved in by a "class" or anything. You can go out of your way to call yourself a professional looter or a role-playing killer. This is the freedom that I'm speaking of. If that doesn't sound exciting to you, then you should stick to your Friday night Molten Core raids.
There are still consequences and whatnot. Otherwise the world would be total chaos, and that type of FFA PvP would never work. By consequences I mean that if you kill someone of your own race who is of "good" standing, then you will take a hit to your racial alignment.
Shadowbane is still alive and kicking,thanks very much. And there's no excessive PvP 'asshats' in there either.
QFT on second sentence I quoted. DFO does have 'controls' however; an alignment system of Good/Evil. Evil people cannot trade openly in towns. However,DFO doesn't punish a lifestyle like that because they could always trade with other players. Neverthless,I'm pretty sure this alignment system will keep some people from PK'ing pointlessly.
Mikey; erm wow,that's probably the first time someone has actually made a in-depth criticism of DFO. The only way to judge how DFO will do is to observe the reaction to the beta. And at least it seems they are willing to make it work,rather THAN rushing it out.
IF (big 'if') they're having fps problems, fine; they spend the time to fix them and when beta is released,people won't have fps problems. If they're having bad animations, fine; let them attune them so no problems there.
DFO's team doesn't sound like the type to just roll over and die after 5 years; in fact the fact it's taking them 5 years probably means THEY ARE AWARE that they're not a big company and being smaller they will have some limitations in terms of speed to make a product,and then the anticipated reaction from when they release a beta. I believe they'd rather go into 2007 still working on a nice,polished beta than rush it out 2006 and meet immediate disaster. (they have said '2006 is their ambitious target for beta release'.)
Btw,they are beginning 'clan beta' signups, which I'm led to believe is a way for pre-organised DFO clans to get their open beta arrangements done EARLIER than those doing it solo,but by NO MEANS meaning they'll get in earlier than everyone else when beta comes. It's possibly a way for the DFO devs to judge how many 'clans' will be playing DFO beta,and thus create and form the appropriate number of 'clanstones' for their cities.
Personally mikey,you also sound like a person who'd be dying to play DFO and eat your own pessimistic words.
But at least you've made some good points. The only way to truely counter them would be to see a beta release; but for now I'm pretty convinced a lot of people would like to see DFO be a success; they're just worried it wont.
I wouldn't judge the moderators on the DFO forums to be 'accurate' representatives of the DFO devs or anything,like Brannoc. There are also some nice mods on there I've noticed (Paramonsiaiac guy is good),but personally I think the (at least majority of) DFO devs are all hard at work making their game seem right,rather than speaking to the players on the forums. That can come en masse later,and I take this to be another positive sign that they'd rather work on the game (and make Vault announcements every now and then) than be around on the forums themselves. I'm sure the forum moderators on DFO will do an ok job for now.
It's basically just a case of "game with potential". We can't really say much more than that,for now.....