Character Customization?

Kanis · February 2004

I'm wondering how many people actually play MMORPG's and want a fairly unique appearance? I know that it sounds like an insurmountable request but I do recall being fairly unique in Asheron's Call (yes the original), but everything lately has been fairly limited in the ability to customize.

In the time that I played my first MMORPG (yup AC) it was very rare to see another player with the exact combination of facial features, body type and hair. It made the avatar feel much more unique. When I play MMORPG's there is time to hunt, and time to socialize; and I for one like the ability to recognize people just by looking at them.

The reason I bring this up is that I have noticed a trend in the newer MMORPG's that bothers me. The selection of customization has been thinned out greatly to the point of clones running around (over simplifying to make a point). I understand that it take a graphics guy a while to get all of the huge content (textures, models etc) in the game, but the very basic necessity of being unique (or at least some decent variations) is ignored. Designing variations to the player models should be one of the basic requirements when designing the game since it's what the player will be seeing all the time they play. Facial features, eye colors, hair style, hair color, tattoos, skin tone, height & build all add to the immersion into the game world in my opinion since the avatar becomes the players' extension.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, I hope that it helps any of the Dev's looking for feedback on what the players look for; and your points of view are always appreciated.

"Common sense is NOT common!"

ianubisi · February 2004

Your options are very limited. I don't care very much about my appearance, but it's not because I want to be a clone or want to powerlevel my way through.

Unique looks are nice, but they are a tritiary consideration to me. The first thing of importance is: is my race/class combo fun? Second thing is: is my race/class combination good for my style of play (good solo, good in groups, good crafter, whatever it is I want)? Beyond that, how stylish I am becomes unimportant. I really don't care if I have the same armor as someone else...provided that armor allows me to have fun and play the way I want to play.

Kanis · February 2004

Originally posted by ianubisi
Unique looks are nice, but they are a tritiary consideration to me. The first thing of importance is: is my race/class combo fun? Second thing is: is my race/class combination good for my style of play (good solo, good in groups, good crafter, whatever it is I want)? Beyond that, how stylish I am becomes unimportant.

edited for lenght

This is a perfect example of who I don't want to play with... don't get me wrong and don't take offence since it's not an attack (bare with me). Playing many MMORPG's I've noticed a large group of people who come in and the only thing that matters is the mechanics of the game. I makes differance to them if they all look the same, clones of the same armor (since it's the best type), taking the same comination of race and class to maximize the combat curve so they can be better than the others...

Again I know I'm taking it a little to the extreme, but what I'm trying to get across is that I like MMORPG's for the RPG side of the game... the interaction with the others. The combat, exploration and leveling is also important (but developers are all focusing on this so it's not an issue)... so I'm not saying that you HAVE to be original (since many like yourself aren't concerned with this) but I wish they would take it into account that there are many role players that enjoy the ability to customize there avatars... again not taking anything away from what is there now (in the industry) I just wish they would offer this option to the people who enjoy it. This isn't something that would change the game mechanics (Like PvP, or being a monster race) it's just to add some personal attachment.

Again this is only my point of view and I appriciate your time in reading it and posting your own.

"Common sense is NOT common!"

Jhikan · February 2004

I agree with ianubisi about it being tertiary but don't get me wrong that I don't think it is completely unimportant. It's just that if the game itself sucks, why should I care about making a suitable avatar? I believe everyone should have a unique look and most games are beginning to fix this problem. But to me the problem is mostly with clothing. In the case of DAoC, everyones armor looks the same just about, although I do know they are slowing fixing this.

I just want to point out I am not a powergamer and enjoy most games for social aspect(hence me leaving FFXI). But again I stress that character creation come behind game mechanics for the sole reason that if the game isn't fun, why make a character.

Also I know you were speaking extremes to make a point, I just wanted to get thisa across.

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ianubisi · February 2004

From my perspective, I don't need a unique frock in order to roleplay effectively.

The role that I play is embedded in the character I bring to life by my actions and my words. A man is not how he dresses, he is how he acts.

heartless · February 2004

Originally posted by ianubisi

From my perspective, I don't need a unique frock in order to roleplay effectively.
The role that I play is embedded in the character I bring to life by my actions and my words. A man is not how he dresses, he is how he acts.

That is very true and it works in the real world. In an MMORPG it doesn't.

Consider the following: in real life we all have different faces and body size/shapes, as well as other things like hair, voices and even smell, that help us stand out. So even if everyone in the world dressed the same, you'd still be able to tell one person from another.

Now if we were all clones with the same exact characteristics, it would be very hard to tell who is who. People would know that ianubisi is a cool guy but how would that be able to tell ianubisi from Bob or John?

That is the problem with most MMORPGs.

ianubisi · February 2004

Heartless, your reputation preceeds and follows you in MMOGs.

I've played plenty of them, and the best players and worst players are well known for their actions. The best are highly desired, the worst are scorned.

There are many shades in between, and people establish themselves in the communities they are a part of. You spend many, many hours working on your character...your reputation becomes more important than the items you own.

heartless · February 2004

I think that we're talking about different things here. You're talking about reputation and actions and I'm talking about telling 2 people appart.

Reputation and actions help us destinguish ourselves but our appearance is also important.

You could be the most virtuous player in the game but if you're standing right next to a griefer that looks exactly like you, how will people be able to tell who is who? Especially in games that don't require unique names.

Besides, personally, I always strive to be as unique as possible. I'm not into the whole flock of sheep thing.

Enigma · February 2004

while Character customization isn't terribly important to me, it does urk me seeing a clone of myself every 30 minutes.

Final Fantasy XI was infamous for this as they only had 10 female human looks, 10 male human looks, etc. With a server of over 5000, you can see the "im unique" bleeding away

sturm117 · February 2004

I agree that the trend seems to be heading in the wrong direction as far as character customization goes. It is nice to be able to have a lot of options to change to make my avatar look more unique There are however a lot of other things more important to me. I also feel that your options in your poll are really limited.

Clever_Glove · February 2004

Originally posted by ianubisi

Your options are very limited. I don't care very much about my appearance, but it's not because I want to be a clone or want to powerlevel my way through.
Unique looks are nice, but they are a tritiary consideration to me. The first thing of importance is: is my race/class combo fun? Second thing is: is my race/class combination good for my style of play (good solo, good in groups, good crafter, whatever it is I want)? Beyond that, how stylish I am becomes unimportant. I really don't care if I have the same armor as someone else...provided that armor allows me to have fun and play the way I want to play.

I agree with this, actually I prefer not so much unique becuase the more customized things get the more resources they need. I want my games to run flawlessly with 489 people on the screen. The last I thing I want is chop when I trying to score a head shot, of get off that miracle heal to turn the tide of the war.

Allot of newer games, have made the models more uniform and the armor more unique. (to save on resources)

On another note, in PvP the worst thing you can do is stand out. I make it a point to look as homogenized as possible, the less enemies can tell about me from the my looks the better.

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Hockey2340 · February 2004

I don't think I could play a game for more the a month if everyone looked the same. Most people like to stand out in the game and one way is customizing your character.

Marduke|Skirmisher

Neopagan · February 2004

I am a big role player and I have played not only pen & paper RPG but online stuff as well. I must admit most games are sadly lacking not only in uniqueness of avatars but also in RP servers. The whole point of role playing is to bring yourself to the role to do this you need as unique a character as possible. I agree that the trend of late seems to be toward homogenized character appearance.

However at the same time we all realise the strictures of an on line game. Initial character creation has to have restrictions BUT and this is a BIG BUT is it really so hard to make a game that you can customise your avatar further in game? Perhaps I would like to go to a tattoo parlour and get a tattoo on my cheek, or perhaps get a haircut! I appreciate that these are unusual examples but the technology is there to do such things - a finite limit of hairstyles or a finite number of tattoos to choose from isn't asking too much is it?

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PureHatred · February 2004

I agree with Neopagan. Its not that hard to add features later on in a game to where you can customize your character. I can understand worrying about gameplay first but once you hook people to that, start throwing in some character features.

Conquer Online did the haircut thing and I thought it was hillarious. They only have about 9-12 different styles but it was fun. They also have dye that you could buy for your hair to change the color. Simple things like that make a difference.

Only those that enjoy Life live it.

Ramonski7 · February 2004

I believe your poll to be very limited(like some MMOs character creation screens).

But back to the topic at hand, those serious about the RP aspect of a game would surely find a way to make their characters 'act' the part without worrying about looks, note the term ROLE play. Not COSplay. Anyway I understand that some poeple have a need for a deep character creation system to make up for their lack of imagination and to help them settle in their avatar's role. But is that being just a little too picky?

Just how many even go so far as to actually use the other tools 'in-game' that help make their characters stand out? SWG has the option to provide a backstory for your character. So did UO. I can't recall if EVE had that option, but they did have a very detailed character creation system... Anyway, if more people would take the time to explore more 'in-game' options rather than concentrate on the superficial ones (how shallow does that sound), then more good players would be around to help correct the issue about a given game. (Instead of uselessly complaining about it on a 2nd party forum)

As I recall a number of battles for those that yearned for uniqueness in UO came from the players themselves and that resulted in many changes with dye tubs, hair styling coupons and clothing options.

PureHatred · February 2004

Originally posted by Ramonski7

I believe your poll to be very limited(like some MMOs character creation screens).
But back to the topic at hand, those serious about the RP aspect of a game would surely find a way to make their characters 'act' the part without worrying about looks, note the term ROLE play. Not COSplay. Anyway I understand that some poeple have a need for a deep character creation system to make up for their lack of imagination and to help them settle in their avatar's role. But is that being just a little too picky?
Just how many even go so far as to actually use the other tools 'in-game' that help make their characters stand out? SWG has the option to provide a backstory for your character. So did UO. I can't recall if EVE had that option, but they did have a very detailed character creation system... Anyway, if more people would take the time to explore more 'in-game' options rather than concentrate on the superficial ones (how shallow does that sound), then more good players would be around to help correct the issue about a given game. (Instead of uselessly complaining about it on a 2nd party forum)
As I recall a number of battles for those that yearned for uniqueness in UO came from the players themselves and that resulted in many changes with dye tubs, hair styling coupons and clothing options.

I understand part of what you are saying Ramonski but I disagree with people having lack of imagination. Sure, games that allow you to create a back story or description for you character is good. But obviously thats not enough to satisfy people's creative/imaginative appetites.

Nobody pointed out certain games nor did anybody say that ALL games don't have customize features. Just that some games these days don't put more effort into customization of characters. Imagine being able to create a back story for your character that involes you getting cut across the face. Then you can customize your character with a scar on his face or something. I personally think that would be cool as heck.

As I said on another forum, most gamers these days only consentrate on the mechanics of a game and don't try to be unique at all. What about when you max the level of your character along with others? Then you have no way to tell one another apart other than your name. Sure you MIGHT have different weapons but you will basically all be the same. Wouldn't you rather have atleast different colors than the other person? I don't know, lol, the features people look for in a game change like the wind. Some days its grapics, next day its storyline, and another day its races/types of characters you can make. I can see how game makers have a hard time keeping up, lol.

Only those that enjoy Life live it.

Kanis · February 2004

I see many of your replies keep saying that you don't think being able to customize your avatar is as important as good game play... I'm not trying to make that comparison. I want... no I demand great game play, but I also want the ability to recognize friends and guildmates by appearance.

Clothing and equipment that looks like everyone elses bothers me as well, but that I think can be changed as the game gains new content. As for the characters appearance I think its very important that it's established at the beginning of the game. I'm not talking about being able to change things on a 'per login' amount, like hair color and style (but I understand some people would like the ability to do so) but more options from the time the character is created.

This wouldn't take anything away from the graphics engines (Asheron's Call is ancient in the MMORPG history and it did a decent degree of variation for its time - hell it's still ahead when compared to many of todays games). I know I keep going back to AC but it's a good frame of referance since many have played it and it's 'oldschool' (not saying it did everything right).

So to recap, I don't want to be unique at the expense of the games quality (frame rate, content, innovation); but with the computer power out there at the moment I don't think it's even an issue. I just want the addition of the character customization (people who don't care wouldn't need to use it... but if it's there they would) to be thought of from the ground up in game design.

My two coppers (well more than that if you add my posts together )

"Common sense is NOT common!"

PS: I like this forum (even if it is considered 2nd party) since it groups many different styles of the same genre of game; better than having to post the same idea on many different forums, it reaches a broader spectrum of players (as the replies indicate).

darkendreary · February 2004

I think character appearance customization is very important. Facial looks being the most so in the beginning. I think AC1 did it quite well for an older game.

Change eye shape, nose, lips, hair, eye color, skin color, along with three different races. Body proportions were all the same, but thats not much of a bother.

Its gotten to a point in AC that many of us are recognizable from the armor we wear. There are so many color variations and armor styles that it creates an air of individualism even moreseo than just the avatar appearance. Thats where I have seen a problem in some games as of late like Horizons. EVERYONE looks the same with each race, with a few possible exceptions .

________________________________

What depths I may go, dare you choose to follow; grasp my hand in so chosing. Darkness within the light, sought tranquility before forgotten evermore as a grain of sand in a waterless sea of travesty.

Ramonski7 · February 2004

To tell you the truth being a RPer at times, I have grown accustomed to dealing with character creation systems with 'limited' capabilities. If I could I would created the perfect vision of my avatar in detail along with a background story for any given MMORPG. But I know that cannot happen and further more, what if I did it in a game I grew bored of.... what then?

In UO I had 4 characters:

Nomar Silver-A nubian prince who was striving to make a name for himself, but suffered from his father's well-known name and influence.

Lang Silver- Father of Nomar and husband to Aurora, who was a retired adventurer that dabbled in the arcane and spent most of his time deciphering tattered treasure maps for would be adventurers. He secretly long to forfill one last grand adventure...

Aurora Silver- Mother of Nomar who respected what her son was trying to do thus worked tirelessly to supply him with much needed items for his never-ending journeys. Always roaming the streets of Brittainia shopping and helping others.

Hanzo- A evil ninja that always dressed in black and practiced in the dark arts of magic. He roamed the lands of Felluca always in search for nobles and wandering people to terrorize and rob.

Although I could not make detailed bodies and faces I did my best to dress them to their parts: Nomar-full-plate armor, Lang-robes, Aurora-fancy dresses and Hanzo-black clothes(no ninja outfits) And although everyone basicly looked the same, the shear amount of clothing customizations help break the cookie-cutter models.

This is just to show you that none of my characters strived to get the best armor, the best pets or the best weapons. Heck Nomar was only a x5 GM. But it held my interest for 5 years because I RPed not power played. I took the best of what I had and made something of it. Who's to say you have to get the best equipment? Most memorable characters in a fantasy setting NEVER had the best equipment. (i.e. movies, books and D&D related games)

I'm not trying to put anyone's views down or dismiss anyone's opinions. Let's just say that I hired 5 artists and I presented them with the same supplies and asked them to create something in hopes of hiring some of them. Now say 4 of them created something truely beautiful and unique, but one refused to work with limited supplies. Now he may have been the best artist out of the bunch, but it's easier to do a job than explain why you didn't.

ianubisi · February 2004

Are you all willing to suffer the enormous cost in video lag due to texture rendering to afford this level of customization?

You do understand there are actual logistics involved in this, right? This isn't just a matter of a development house being lazy. Every combination of armor/clothing/tatoo/hair/skin/bodyshape/etc needs to render on your computer.

Those of you who have played AO from release know that AO spent a lot of time creating clothing and emotes to give everyone a lot of customization options. At release there were lots of options of armor, clothing, etc... The game also was a slideshow in cities. The sheer amount of texture rendering for 10 players in the same vicinit was enough to bring even the most advanced computers to a crawl.

Before you mention UO, consider that UO was a sprite game. Every combination of clothing was literally a painted sprite. OSI complained fairly bitterly about the amount of time it took to make that happen, and the fact that the game was 2D made it more feasible. It's really not an option in a 3D game...you have frames, you have textures, you have to render the frames on the textures.

Which is more important to you:

a) The ability to have hundreds of unique combinations of looks
b) The ability to see 10-50 peope on-screen at more than 2fps

PureHatred · February 2004

Just some questions for you, ianubisi. What are your views about upcoming CoH? They will have thousands of character options. Do you think that will cause a problem for them with lag? (These are just questions, nothing more. I have learned people get very offended on this forum rather easy.)

Only those that enjoy Life live it.

Adreal · February 2004

"there are many role players that enjoy the ability to customize there avatars."

...and I am one of them. I hold game mechanics, RP, and multiple unique features of character generation and appearance on equal levels. Fail in one and I'm bound to tire of the game.

p.s. what is CoH?

ianubisi · February 2004

Originally posted by PureHatred
Just some questions for you, ianubisi. What are your views about upcoming CoH? They will have thousands of character options. Do you think that will cause a problem for them with lag?

I can't comment about that until it's available to try. I would highly prefer the game reach the street at an optimal performance and have the extra textures added over time...as opposed to a ton of customization available from the beginning and I'm running at 5fps whenever 3 people are on screen together.

That's where I'm coming from. I'm all for customization, but it's a tertiary concern to me. Can I have fun? Can I play the way I'd like to play? Can I look the way I want to look? The level of importance is in that order for me.

Ramonski7 · February 2004

Originally posted by PureHatred
Just some questions for you, ianubisi. What are your views about upcoming CoH? They will have thousands of character options. Do you think that will cause a problem for them with lag? (These are just questions, nothing more. I have learned people get very offended on this forum rather easy.)

Only those that enjoy Life live it.

With City of Heroes no one has to worry about ac or defense in the fantasy rpg sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot more goes into creating functional armor rather than mere skins. This would be the only reason CoH would not have a problem with lag. If each and every outfit in CoH has stat bonuses and has to factor in adjustments for damage being dealt to the wearer then I stand corrected.

PureHatred · February 2004

Originally posted by ianubisi

Originally posted by PureHatred
Just some questions for you, ianubisi. What are your views about upcoming CoH? They will have thousands of character options. Do you think that will cause a problem for them with lag?

I can't comment about that until it's available to try. I would highly prefer the game reach the street at an optimal performance and have the extra textures added over time...as opposed to a ton of customization available from the beginning and I'm running at 5fps whenever 3 people are on screen together.

That's where I'm coming from. I'm all for customization, but it's a tertiary concern to me. Can I have fun? Can I play the way I'd like to play? Can I look the way I want to look? The level of importance is in that order for me.

Oh, lol, well I was saying the same things in my other posts. Gameplay first, then add all the other features later. My fault that i misinterpret what you were saying.

Only those that enjoy Life live it.

ianubisi · February 2004

Originally posted by Ramonski7

With City of Heroes no one has to worry about ac or defense in the fantasy rpg sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but a lot more goes into creating functional armor rather than mere skins. This would be the only reason CoH would not have a problem with lag. If each and every outfit in CoH has stat bonuses and has to factor in adjustments for damage being dealt to the wearer then I stand corrected.

It's not a question of stat bonuses, etc. Video lag is caused by the texture of the skin, not by its attributes. If you have 14 body slots, and 100 different pieces that can go on each slot you have an exponential number of skins to have to be able to render at any given moment. That causes havoc on your video card.

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