Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
all the new mmos comming out
suske
Member Posts: 714
there are many mmos coming out soon (a year or so) and i can't help but think we will see a "flooding" of the
market causing a crash of the mmo market. too much product, too few customers.
also, what do you think of the fact that companies want to make "simple" mmos, aka wow?
no real in depth games out there or coming soon, i think we have a "wow" problem.
Comments
really? or are you a total moron? maybe 12 years old? on dope? sorry, i will let this go as you can't see the big
picture.
Anyone going after WoW model is bound to fail a fiery death. Or better yet, a whimper.
Only those that will look beyond and completely away from WoW stand a chance.
Edit:
Right on time here. GW is hosting one of those as well soon.
Making a functional game is no longer considered a money maker. Not even a baseline. It's something nobody even cares about.
These games are solid platforms, that only focus into content. And not the old and rehashed expansion style content, but live events, in-game events, out-of-game events, etc. They can do it, because they have their games working.
This is where SOE has a problem. They spend all of their effort merely fixing stuff, that they can't even try to do something above. And when they do, it's a poor wannabe copy of some other game.
If SWG and EQ2 are generation 2, WoW is gen 3, but what sells now is gen 4. Where game takes second seat to content and entertainment. And content isn't a new animation or 5 more levels. There's lots of experiments going on about this, but none has truly penetrated the market yet.
This is entertainment business. People want to be entertained. And the person to figure out how to get away from the "grind = content" model will be the next WoW.
All the new games coming out? Old stuff. It'll peak at launch, then die really fast once people realize it's the same game they've been playing for past 5 years, just with a new skin. None of the games coming out has both: Mass apeal and new content.
look at what happened to DnD. the fans were primed for a "living" DnD world and got crap. only hard core DnD
fans would keep paying for that.
star wars fans got screwed too. hard. with a knife. made the game too simple.
wow? sucks. nuff said.
no sandbox mmo being made now, unless you count vanguard, $oe of heroes, and i don't.
right on, man. my thoughts too. i just hope that we don't see people feeling ripped off by new mmos
and then stay away from them altogether.
Success will require a company willing to take risk. So scratch all of your established companies from the list of potential sources of the next great MMORPG. There were two reasons SWG took the risk of the NGE:
New companies based around taking the risk of delivering the "next generation" are our only hope. This means that not only the developers need to be new, but even the people investing. Otherwise, we will end up with more "in the box" solutions that are not innovative.
The more new MMORPGs I see hit the market and crash, the happier I get, because somebody out there will learn from all these mistakes and put it all together one day. Too bad it will probably never be in a Star Wars skin, because I think Lucas Arts is now part of the establishment mentality.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Now think about technology. More and more people are getting broadband connectiuosn at home. Cable companies, dsl providers, computer hardware manufactors are all booming with sales. Technology is sky rocketing faster than ANY time in history? Yet you see a "crash" comming?
Now lets go deeper. 10 years ago what wwere MMo's like? What about their player base? Slim to none. Whne was UO put out, that was the first real MMO right? How many people played that? 500k?
I don't think you are looking at the big picture mate. If I were you instead of seeing doom and gloom I would talk to your investment broker and put my money in with htis market, because I see the exact opposite you do. I think MMO's are gonna take over the world of gaming.
Even Microsoft agrees with the idea of subscription services. Yea I have to disagree.
I think we have a --->
<--- Problem, SINCE I DON'T KNOW WTH THIS IS!!!
People, save your soul... this is going into every post I comment in until I get an answer... it's only a matter of time until we loose our minds...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Now think about technology. More and more people are getting broadband connectiuosn at home. Cable companies, dsl providers, computer hardware manufactors are all booming with sales. Technology is sky rocketing faster than ANY time in history? Yet you see a "crash" comming?
Now lets go deeper. 10 years ago what wwere MMo's like? What about their player base? Slim to none. Whne was UO put out, that was the first real MMO right? How many people played that? 500k?
I don't think you are looking at the big picture mate. If I were you instead of seeing doom and gloom I would talk to your investment broker and put my money in with htis market, because I see the exact opposite you do. I think MMO's are gonna take over the world of gaming.
Even Microsoft agrees with the idea of subscription services. Yea I have to disagree.
On the contrary, the only thing I'm looking at is the big picture.
Do you know, that the global online gambling market is 3-5 times bigger than world MMO market? And that one is played with real money.
Or the fact, that asian markets do not tolerate per-user subscriptions anymore?
And also the fact, that western markets are miniscule compared to the Asian, which get to direct the future of online gaming?
That 500k concurrent users is the norm for Asian-based games? Subscription free.
Remember, 2/3 of WoW subscriptions are currently based in Asia, pre-dominantly China. That is the market they need to cater to.
The one and only thing I'm looking at is the big picture.
Now think about technology. More and more people are getting broadband connectiuosn at home. Cable companies, dsl providers, computer hardware manufactors are all booming with sales. Technology is sky rocketing faster than ANY time in history? Yet you see a "crash" comming?
Now lets go deeper. 10 years ago what wwere MMo's like? What about their player base? Slim to none. Whne was UO put out, that was the first real MMO right? How many people played that? 500k?
I don't think you are looking at the big picture mate. If I were you instead of seeing doom and gloom I would talk to your investment broker and put my money in with htis market, because I see the exact opposite you do. I think MMO's are gonna take over the world of gaming.
Even Microsoft agrees with the idea of subscription services. Yea I have to disagree.
On the contrary, the only thing I'm looking at is the big picture.
Do you know, that the global online gambling market is 3-5 times bigger than world MMO market? And that one is played with real money.
Or the fact, that asian markets do not tolerate per-user subscriptions anymore?
And also the fact, that western markets are miniscule compared to the Asian, which get to direct the future of online gaming?
That 500k concurrent users is the norm for Asian-based games? Subscription free.
Remember, 2/3 of WoW subscriptions are currently based in Asia, pre-dominantly China. That is the market they need to cater to.
The one and only thing I'm looking at is the big picture.
I was replying to the OP but since you steped up...
"Or the fact, that asian markets do not tolerate per-user subscriptions anymore?" This is your guess? Plkease back up your guesses with facts. I am not saying you are wrong here but just cause you say it does not make it so.
"And also the fact, that western markets are miniscule compared to the Asian, which get to direct the future of online gaming?" Again where do you get your facts to back up statements like this? Lets see your numbers behind your facts and the source of those numbers.
Again I was not replying to you but since you thought I was (???) can you do more than pull numbers out of thin air and back up your OPINIONS?
Thanks!
What we are experaincing is the out cry of shoddy performances games being released.
The thing that soe did the most to future offerings is folks no longer have the where with all to put up with it till it gets better. The other thing is reguardless of how folks feel about wow it was well polished and lots of things to do.
I just do not have the mindset to grind without a purpose of grinding . This is not just mmorpg burn out because i am still enjoying my time in wow and still log on to certain things with patches with swg.
But the old addage just build it and they will come no longer keeps people paying to subscribe when other offerings are doing the Same thing better. We want diversity and the offerings just aren't there.
Untill we the consumers expect something to work and not just be one frustration after another that is what is plaquing the market now.
None of the new releases speak to me yet, perhaps just more time is needed to see what else is out there
We have a bright future ahead of us.
And they all inevitably will fail or at least not meet expectations.
It's like reality TV, boy bands, etc, once there is one huge hit (WoW), everyone else will race to clone it until the public gets sick of it.
What will be interesting is the NEXT generation after that, when it's proven that cloning WoW isn't the path to wealth... I definitely see virtual world sandbox as the next big thing, and the big hit from that will likely be another indie like EvE (which has doubled in audience over the last 2 years and is now within shouting distance of the top MMO's by big players like SOE) or from someone like Koster who is starting an indie.
A game like the pre-CU SWG is the way things are going to end up being, it was just ahead of it's time and released too soon and too buggy.
I think we will have to wait one more gen as well. There are some games that look interesting but nothing mind blowing on the horizon. I'm not sure about the two games you mentioned but STO is along way off, to my knowledge there isn't alot of info released right now. I was looking forward to Roma Victor but it lacks execution. Devs should pay attention to the hype of that game though, it would be huge if someone could produce what Roma promised.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Good post, there's just one problem... The industry doesn't want to give us another SWG... why? Well, because we loved it and played it for years... They want us to buy the next game to be released, not keep playing an older game because we love it. SWG wasn't ahead of it's time, it was it's time. The odds of us EVER seeing a non-level based MMO again are too high to calculate. It's over, and we lost. The sad thing is that we would all be MUCH happier MMO'ing now if we had never played Galaxies...
WHAT IN THE HECK IS THIS?!?!?!?!?! ---->
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
It's amazing how generic and boring so many MMO's can be.
Maybe I spoilt things by playing pre-cu first and it's messed with my expectations, but the choice out seems pitiful if you want a full and immersive game.
If it's a choice between an average MMO and an xbox title then the console gets it every time. I feel like I don't want to invest time and effort in a game that's going to return very little in terms of value/community/excitement.
I am not a happy bunny in the MMO world right now.
Good post, there's just one problem... The industry doesn't want to give us another SWG... why? Well, because we loved it and played it for years... They want us to buy the next game to be released, not keep playing an older game because we love it. SWG wasn't ahead of it's time, it was it's time. The odds of us EVER seeing a non-level based MMO again are too high to calculate. It's over, and we lost. The sad thing is that we would all be MUCH happier MMO'ing now if we had never played Galaxies...
WHAT IN THE HECK IS THIS?!?!?!?!?! ---->
The gaming industry doesn't want to give us another SWG, true, but I disagree with your analysis of why. Do you really believe there are any game development companies out there salivating at the chance to make a SWG MMO after the general playerbase rebellion to both the CU and NGE, however justified that rebellion was? Corporate execs (you know, the people who know absolutely nothing about game design and coding challenges) are the ones who would jump at the chance to work on a SW IP MMO product, but the people who know the game history themselves (the actual developers) would at best be reluctant. SWG players (in particular the pre-NGE variety, the NGE players may actually be the opposite in that just about any shiny trinket pleases them) have a tremendous reputation as a fickle group that is very difficult if not impossible to please. We have organized mass in-game protests, some even with the intention of causing as much game distrubance as possible. We have been incredibly vocal all over the internet decrying both $OE and LEC. Just last week, deservedly or otherwise, the majority of this forum savaged the only group of people (ducklings) who are currently trying to work on a game for that very group. There is a consensus on what we generally want in a game - relatively bug-free, sandbox, Star Wars. But after that the disagreement begins - some want Jedi, some don't, some want Alpha class, some don't, etc.
If SWG had been a wildly successful game, everyone would be copying it regardless of age/timeliness concerns. Success begets imitation.
And this -->
<-- is a white blob, topped by a yellow blob, with some non-descript black markings in the middle.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Customers loving and playing the game for years is the key design goal of an MMO. The idea is that you build a sustainable persistant world.
The Raph Koster sandbox plan calls for a stable player based content system that only requires devs to stop exploits and concentrate on expansion coding.
The WoW/Diablo 2 model calls for devs to constantly add in directed content and to stop exploits.
Both models have strengths and weaknesses and both have been proven to work.
SWG had problems because it was released unfinished. The unfinished game was and still is delaying expansions, and not stable enough to retain customers. Rather than finish the Raph Koster sandbox model, LA required SOE to change to the WoW/Diablo 2 model. Now they are having problems finishing it too.
The bottom line is that when you have a broken game no one will play it no matter what it is.
Former SWG beta tester and player
Koster recently posted in his blog that with the MMO market getting saturated, and the expense of making so much directed content (the kicked of a WoW type MMO is that they MUST continually add content, and only Blizzard has the income and sub base to fund enough content), that it's going to become untenable.
A pre-CU SWG type open skill sandbox player driven MMO model has much more sustainability without needing 6 million subscribers and tons of new directed content.
All pre-CU needed were bug fixes, and the introduction of ADDITIONAL skills and systems (such as atmospheric flight, such as capital starships, etc). They then could have funded that plus more content in the form of expansions. They needed to give us a functioning Star Wars universe complete with the major things you could do in the movies, and then let us make our own content for the most part. SWG shouldn't have been released at all until JTL at the very least, they would have had time to release it with the refined "Combat Revamp" version of the original combat engine.
Take a look at Eve. They are an open ended skill sandbox game with a slowly but steadily increasing player base. They don't have directed content, nor the need for it. The systems are the content.
SWG is already unsustanable, as they are certain to lose more money on making directed content with the shrinking player base. The catch 22 is that if they DONT make the directed content, the sub base shrinks even more because of "nothing to do" etc. That is the real mistake of the NGE, they took away the game as the content, in that there are no longer real long term goals past being full level (ie: grind Jedi), and vastly insufficient amounts of directed content.
I was a beta tester for SWG, then played it up until Sep 2004, quit at that time because things that were unfinished in beta were still unfinished at that time. I went back to the game summer 2005 and played until NGE (well a couple of months after NGE). The biggest problem with $OE is they did not listen to its player base. Many of the people in beta, including myself, pleaded for $OE to hold off on the release, instead of releasing an unfinished product, which they did, stating that it had to be released to recoup costs. The game system (Pre-CU) was great, the world was great, as mentioned by other posters, all that SWG needed was bug fixes and a couple of professions to be completed (such as smuggler and ranger). But the company had to screw up a perfectly good game to try and cash in on the "Jedi Fan base". If they wanted that they could have just created KOTOR Online and left SWG alone.
Just my little rant.
Possibly incorrect, but no ignorant, and I think you're a Poopy Head for saying it...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!