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Evolution Losing Favor in the US
britoca
Member Posts: 1,484
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than anybody except perhaps the Islamic fundamentalist, which is why
Turkey and we are so close," said Miller."
Disturbing. The so called defender of the western freedom is deep into religion, not a good sign at all.
You're usually spot on Phoenixs, but you lost me a little here. You find it frightening that the "defender of the western freedom" is deep into religion when it is a country that was widelly FOUNDED on religious beliefs? I'm not sure what you mean here. A religious foundation has been the basis of the United States since day one, it's not something new at all.
Instead of being disturbed that the U.S. is "deep into religion" you could think that without that religous foundation the U.S. might be an entirely DIFFERENT kind of country from it's birth and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Sure, the U.S. is far from perfect but overall we're not horrible either. We've had a couple bad runs in our government but I think that's due to stagnation in the existing parties rather than anything religious.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
From the article:
"The percentage of U.S. adults who overtly reject evolution also declined over the past 20 years, from 48 percent to 39 percent. The percentage of those who were unsure increased from 7 percent to 21 percent."
It must be all those scratchbacks and rag-merchant-pedofile worshipers that keep pouring in here.
What is frightening ( I am not an American, I am Canadian) is that a nation that has always tried to separate church and state is currently being run by the religious right.
<-- Believe in evolution fyi.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
Oy...
You know that the "seperation of church and state" as defined by Jefferson was more aptly a seperation of state and church. Meaning that the government should not dictate the church. The idea was never even conceived to be that religious beliefs shouldn't influence the state. That's purely impossible to have someone without ANY religious beliefs in a position of power. Save maybe an agnostic group, every other belief is in and of itself a religion by the basest definitions of the term.
I can see where you are coming from though. I just wanted to clarify the overly misused sentiment of "Seperation of Chuch and State". I don't think anyone should have their religious beliefs dictated to them by another here in the U.S. (within reason. If you believe in human sacrifice that's a bit extreme for me to support).
The leadership here in the U.S. goes back and forth. Sadly, "religion" has become a political weapon rather than a moral influence now. If you look at past presidents of the U.S. that were of devout religious beliefs they used their religion as a moral boon, not a platform for votes.
THAT is the real problem now. It's not religion itself but how it's being used.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
I think the shift has been the only thing keeping this country afloat for a long time. I see what you are saying and I am not disagreeing, just giving my sentiment as a Christian when it comes to the "shift". Until we can get someone that IS truly nuetral (and I don't know how realistic that is) the shift is a good thing that swing the pendulum back and forth every several years. I feel bad for those people that are upset when the shift comes along as well. To me it's logical right now. It's kind of like trying to delicately keep the scales in balance. From time to time the scales tend to tip one way or the other too far and it seems that the next swing generally corrects that to some extent.
Shame more people don't see it that way.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
You're usually spot on Phoenixs, but you lost me a little here. You find it frightening that the "defender of the western freedom" is deep into religion when it is a country that was widelly FOUNDED on religious beliefs? I'm not sure what you mean here. A religious foundation has been the basis of the United States since day one, it's not something new at all.
Instead of being disturbed that the U.S. is "deep into religion" you could think that without that religous foundation the U.S. might be an entirely DIFFERENT kind of country from it's birth and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Sure, the U.S. is far from perfect but overall we're not horrible either. We've had a couple bad runs in our government but I think that's due to stagnation in the existing parties rather than anything religious.
I believe that religion and politics should not be mixed. It's not a good combination. Look at Islam and extremists there. Hamas, Hezbollah etc. If religion starts to influence politics to much your on the wrong side very, very quick. There is one thing that scares the shit out of me, if USA should become a extreme religious power. That would be truly disturbing. And when USA starts to become as religious as a islamistic country I do find it abit worrying.
If USA keeps religion at a normal level I got no problem with it. But I must admit that I don't feel confortable when your President says "God bless..." and those phrases.
It's not religion itself but how it's being used.
Very true.
My issue with this is that I see it as a scientific reasoning cop-out. Saying that life is so complex that it was obviously thought-out by a higher power is throwing the white towel in on scientific discussion.
For that reasoning, then the entire universe itself is too complex to study. Heck, to hell with finding out how things work, who needs causality? Why bother even getting started at all, everything is so amazingly and overwhelmingly complex! :O
Look at our atmosphere, what a complex and mindblowing system to comprehend. Should we keep studying it and attempt to predict and understand its behavior? Why? It's soooooo complex, it's obviously designed by higher intelligence, so why bother???
This is not a scientific argument, it's philosophical escapism.
We know there are many unexplainable things in reality. All we have to do is look at the quantum world. No one has any ideas as to why things happen there the way they do. No one! It's all probabilistic odds!
So if the behavior of quantum particles isn't deterministic, then how and why is it happening? Are they conscious and independent bleeps of energy? Gremmlings? Is it god? Are they gods? Does it matter what it is?
These questions are filosophy, NOT SCIENCE!
You are right, evolution is a theory, but a theory full of evidence. Intelligent design is philosophy!
Teach science in science. Teach philosophy in philosophy, that's all there is.
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This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
You're usually spot on Phoenixs, but you lost me a little here. You find it frightening that the "defender of the western freedom" is deep into religion when it is a country that was widelly FOUNDED on religious beliefs? I'm not sure what you mean here. A religious foundation has been the basis of the United States since day one, it's not something new at all.
Instead of being disturbed that the U.S. is "deep into religion" you could think that without that religous foundation the U.S. might be an entirely DIFFERENT kind of country from it's birth and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Sure, the U.S. is far from perfect but overall we're not horrible either. We've had a couple bad runs in our government but I think that's due to stagnation in the existing parties rather than anything religious.
I believe that religion and politics should not be mixed. It's not a good combination. Look at Islam and extremists there. Hamas, Hezbollah etc. If religion starts to influence politics to much your on the wrong side very, very quick. There is one thing that scares the shit out of me, if USA should become a extreme religious power. That would be truly disturbing. And when USA starts to become as religious as a islamistic country I do find it abit worrying.
If USA keeps religion at a normal level I got no problem with it. But I must admit that I don't feel confortable when your President says "God bless..." and those phrases.
It's not religion itself but how it's being used.
Very true.
I guess I would have more issues with a President that was giving speeches saying "God told me to tell you..." than a phrase like "God bless..." I mean "In God We Trust" is all over every piece of our currency and I don't have an issue with that.
I agree with where you are going now that you've clarified though. The Church (aka the Vatican) is a GREAT example and what you are talking about, and NO, even as a Christian I don't want to see that sort of thing here in our country. There's a distinct line between a political leader saying "Because I believe in God I believe we should love one another." and one who says "Because THEY don't believe in God we should bomb them till they do!" If that's the way we're really going, then I agree with your fear.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
A intresting view of Inteligent Design Britoca. Not one that I aggree with but then agian it would be boring if we did. You seem to think just because someone thinks a system is designed those which use such a system arent intrested in progress. Simple needs make it nescarry to understand the systems mechanics and use it for our better survival. Pure mathmatic results wont be any less valid believing the system were observing is designed.
You assumed to much of the intents of a group Britoca, and you know what they say about assuming. It makes a Ass out of you and me
Okay, you're lost me a bit, Brit. Where did you ever hear someone who believed in Intelligent Design say "Well, since God did it we shouldn't bother trying to figure it out."? To me, science is understanding how God works and I love that we learn new things everyday.
Personally, from everything I've ever read in the Bible we've been created to do exactly what we're doing. Learn, deduce, understand, and unravel. I don't think Intelligent Deisgn is a cop-out as much as an explaination for the state (something we're probably not likely to discover just due strictly to the amount of time passed). I think when science suddenly figures something out and says "Ha! Now we know how it works! That means God didn't do this!" is absurd. To me science and God can go hand in hand. If Eistein believed this then who I am to think otherwise? Hell, imagine how bored we would be as a species if God created us then left us with nothing to do.
I think Science can find the answers to a lot of things, but I also think there are some things that they just hit a deadend with and can't find the past variable in the equation. That could be by design or by the fact that we just don't have the technology. I think some things may NEVER be answered unless we invent timetravel, personally.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
See, I agree with you 1000% there. A president shouldn't say "I don't agree with abortion because it's against my religion, therefore you shouldn't agree with abortion either!" However, a president can NOT agree with abortion due to their religious beliefs but they leave it up to the people to decide.
The problem with morallity as it stands it that it's perspective. So someone is ALWAYS going to get their dander up by some moral decision. That's why I think leadership is fine in releasing ideas to be voted upon by the people but I don't think it's fine for them to dictate those ideas without the people's consent.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."