POLL! maximum size of instances is 25 players in Burning crusade, do you like it?

blackmoore · August 2006

I'm curious to know what the % will be on this one. The question is about wether you raid or not right now with the 40 mans limit...

M1sf1t · August 2006

Best idea they've had in a long time IMHO. The only ones really complaining are the so called hardcore raiders who belong to mega guilds and get geared up first above others. These guilds usually (as a lot of them have stated in the countless ranting posts in the WoW forums) have 10-60+ people waiting to raid online.

They complain that their guilds will fall apart but maybe just maybe the reason their guilds will be crumbling and losing members is because no longer do people have to belong to a mega guilds run by elitist assholes. Smaller family style guilds will now be able to survive and retain members and not lose them to the mega guilds and their raid machine which only caters to and equips the upper echelon in the guild....aka GM's, Officers and their firends/ass kissers first. Once the expansion hits you will no longer have to raid with people you really dislike and who are major a-holes issuing orders.

noname12345 · August 2006

I like 40 man better. This is just another big sign on WoW's forehead yelling "CAREBEAR!".

M1sf1t · August 2006

Originally posted by AlexAmore
I like 40 man better. This is just another big sign on WoW's forehead yelling "CAREBEAR!".

WoW is and has always been carebear what suddenly clued you in ? EQ2 is way more "hardcore" then WoW and doesn't have 40 man raids. EQ2 does fine with a 24 man raid cap why can't WoW ? Hell even WoW PvP servers are carebear. You want real PvP with real losses and consiquences then look elsewhere like in EvE-Online or Lineage 2.

To get back on the topic..It is a common sense change IMHO. Large 40 man raids are pointless as they don't allow for true player skill. 5-10 people die in a 40 man encounter and who notices ? No one thats who. AQ20 and ZG have proven that smaller raids can be more challenging then larger raids especially if it's a entry level raid. Also if you can't manage to run two instances of 25 man raids then maybe your guild needs to implode.

blackmoore · August 2006

AFAIK, Everquest 2, Age Of Conan, Warhammer Online, Vanguard, D&D Online and LOTR Online (basically all the games that have raids) have or will have a 20-25 players cap on raids. Seems like a general trend in mmorpg...

Could someone please link this poll in the official forums? I'd like to have more peoples answering it. Lots of peoples seems to HATE the change there but I suspect its a very vocal little minority...

Zerocool032 · August 2006

They're only doing that because the new lvl cap is 70.. So people that just hit 60 wont be doing these instances anymore.

And i heard that getting from 60-70 will take just as long as getting from 1-60

baphamet · August 2006

Originally posted by Zerocool032
And i heard that getting from 60-70 will take just as long as getting from 1-60

where did you hear that? if this is true that is good news indeed.

baphamet · August 2006

and yeah the 10 and 25 player caps on raids is a great idea imo, it is good for the wow player base as a whole.

i also like that they are fixing the honor system and making it the way it should have been in the first place, i think this expansion is going to be awsome! ::::19::

ConverseSC · August 2006

Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by Zerocool032
And i heard that getting from 60-70 will take just as long as getting from 1-60

where did you hear that? if this is true that is good news indeed.

Its an official quote from Blizzard. It is also most likely not true.

baphamet · August 2006

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Its an official quote from Blizzard. It is also most likely not true.

i just seen this, not sure how accurate it is...either way, it better not be easy like 1-60

This guy's grind from 60-70 was probably twice as long as his one from 50-60. Truth

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft-expansion/725327p3.html

M1sf1t · August 2006

Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by ConverseSC

Its an official quote from Blizzard. It is also most likely not true.

i just seen this, not sure how accurate it is...either way, it better not be easy like 1-60

This guy's grind from 60-70 was probably twice as long as his one from 50-60. Truth

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft-expansion/725327p3.html

All that means is that in the end it's take you the same amount of time it took you to get from 1-60 in order to get from 60-70. For some people it will be a week or 2 and others 1-3 months. The more lifeless players will be 70 in a few days.

Tarlanc · August 2006

Why not? It would make sense, speaking from a business point of view. It also fits in with my experience of the last few levels, it seems to take a while longer to go from 50-60 than, say, 40-50, etc.

As long as there is content to explore while levelling up, just like there is for the rest of the game, I'll be very happy if it takes more time rather than less.

ciabb64 · August 2006

Well i personally think its a good idea, although casuals keep rejoicing or hardcore players keep saying its the casuals fault for whining etc, well this has nothing todo with either, just because the cap is reduced it doesnt mean the dungeons will take less time or be easier, in fact, if anything they will be harder. All it means is its easier to control each person tothere full potential, not just, all rogues sapm backstab there, all warriors spam taunt here, and also allows hybrids to change to suit the moment, so at times an extra tank may be needed so the druid jumps into bear form or if extra DPS is needed shamans or druids can stop healing and go into DPS mode, or a paladin may need ot tank at times. Also to those complaining about it becauseit will split there guild up, then they will just have tosit there and complain, or they can deal with it. Solutions could be splittiing raids into 2 groups which wont be that hard many hardcore guilds already do this when doind AQ20 or ZG, or they could not buy the expansion and continue the 40 man raids.

Actually who knows just because blizzard arent doing any more 40 man raids maybe they will put the difficulty scalling into the original 40 man instanes so people cancontinue to raid 40 man in the old instances but with 40 people.

reza100 · August 2006

Its good! because Then it wont take you 8 months to get full wrath(/cry)!

lomiller · August 2006

Originally posted by Zerocool032

They're only doing that because the new lvl cap is 70.. So people that just hit 60 wont be doing these instances anymore.
And i heard that getting from 60-70 will take just as long as getting from 1-60

IOW hardcore guilds will be raiding level 70 content within a week.

Pantastic · August 2006

I don't like it, 25 people is still a raid and is still too many people for them to really interact with each other while on a raid. One of my major complaints with the game is that once you hit cap, you either raid or have inferior gear, and from what I've seen they haven't fixed this. It seems that they've basically put in 10 levels of 'like 1-60' stuff, then at 70 the cycle of raid-or-quit will resume, just with somewhat smaller raids.

There's not a choice on the poll for my position, 'didn't do enough to address a core problem for me to want to come back to the game'.

Joekabuke · August 2006

Perfectly stated

Trand · August 2006

Zerocool032 love your LOTR video!

Sycondaman · August 2006

Originally posted by Pantastic

I don't like it, 25 people is still a raid and is still too many people for them to really interact with each other while on a raid. One of my major complaints with the game is that once you hit cap, you either raid or have inferior gear, and from what I've seen they haven't fixed this. It seems that they've basically put in 10 levels of 'like 1-60' stuff, then at 70 the cycle of raid-or-quit will resume, just with somewhat smaller raids.
There's not a choice on the poll for my position, 'didn't do enough to address a core problem for me to want to come back to the game'.

Raiding gear will always be better than non-raid gear. There may be a game that comes out with a wide-range of content, from raid to group to solo with a big challenge and good loot, but the raiding gear will still be better than the group gear, and the group gear will still be better than the solo gear. Why? To increase the rarity of the best items.

fireblazerx · August 2006

Originally posted by blackmoore

I'm curious to know what the % will be on this one. The question is about wether you raid or not right now with the 40 mans limit...

I have raided.

The 40-man raid is a unique addition that should not be removed.

Blizzard should have just implemented the 25-man cap for other instances.

Fenrir767 · August 2006

40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing

fireblazerx · August 2006

Originally posted by Fenrir767
40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing

40-man raids have killed small guilds. That is true. But not guilds that raid often and recruit often.
Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous.
My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.

Dabble · August 2006

Originally posted by tuppe99
I believe that these changes may actually save WoW from a massive exodus when MMOs like AoC and Warhammer get released.

Agreed

Pantastic · August 2006

Originally posted by Sycondaman
Raiding gear will always be better than non-raid gear. There may be a game that comes out with a wide-range of content, from raid to group to solo with a big challenge and good loot, but the raiding gear will still be better than the group gear,

Then I won't buy that game either, along with a lot of other people I know. I don't think most people who do raid realize just how much contempt other people have for raiding and raid guilds, and I think WOW's original promise of not catering to raiders is a big part of its success. When a nice solid MMO comes along that doesn't cater to raiding guilds, there's a big crowd that will flock to it.

baphamet · August 2006

Originally posted by Pantastic
Originally posted by Sycondaman
Raiding gear will always be better than non-raid gear. There may be a game that comes out with a wide-range of content, from raid to group to solo with a big challenge and good loot, but the raiding gear will still be better than the group gear, Then I won't buy that game either, along with a lot of other people I know. I don't think most people who do raid realize just how much contempt other people have for raiding and raid guilds, and I think WOW's original promise of not catering to raiders is a big part of its success. When a nice solid MMO comes along that doesn't cater to raiding guilds, there's a big crowd that will flock to it.

from what i have read the hardcore pvp gear is on par with the best gear in the game. granted it is worded kind of weird and it still requires alot of playing time.

but if you are a hardcore pvp'er and have alot of spare time on your hands, it seems you can have gear just as good as the raid loot.

Depending on how it performs in battle, a team will be assigned a rating, which changes after the results of all its battles are tallied each week. This team rating will determine its place on the overall ladder, and it affects what opponent it's matched with when it queues up for battle. Depending on how a team performs during a given week, its members will receive points which, similar to the honor system, they can use to buy loot. As mentioned, the Arena gear will be up there with the best of the best, so rest assured, this is where the serious PvPers will be spending their time. Chilton said that the whole system will revolve around three-month seasons, which implies that there will be some sort of periodic championship

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft-expansion/725327p3.html

Fenrir767 · August 2006

Originally posted by fireblazerx

Originally posted by Fenrir767
40 man raids were going to kill the game that is the reason why they changed it to 25 man raids. It is so much better because it opens the content to so many more people then it did befoe may small guilds sat around 20-30 members and couldn't progress now with a little selective recruiting they can in the Burning Crusade this was one of the best decision blizzard made especially with regards to keeping WoW alive and flourishing

40-man raids have killed small guilds. That is true. But not guilds that raid often and recruit often.
Taking out the 40-man limit is ridiculous.
My point is that adding a 25-limit to different instances instead of removing the 40-man limit and putting in this one would be better. This way, those "small guilds" out there can stay small. The big guilds can stay big in the 40-man raid instances.

WoW right now may have a high subscription rate but when less thatn 50% of the population has not experienced the endgame content you have a problem. Small Guilds have died because they can't compete in PvP or in PvE due to raid gear. People have quit the game never to come back etc. They are a problem in the game and with the average guild siaze in WoW probably around 30 people cutting down on the amount of people needed is going to allow small guilds to raid and not progress as fast as the bigger more dedicated raiding but at least experience the content. Adding the 25 man limit to different instance would not have solved the problem because may raiders would complain (it takes 40 people yet the gear is the same as the 25 man instance) The game is so gear based and with still being popular but not as much as it once was in America with every lost subscriber being replaced by many more something has to be done to keep more people playing especially with all the forthcoming competition.

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POLL! maximum size of instances is 25 players in Burning crusade, do you like it?

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POLL! maximum size of instances is 25 players in Burning crusade, do you like it?

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